Lets Get Fianna Fail Out Now With Direct Action!

RockinRolla

A planned march on December 7th to the Dail is being organised as we speak and if they still refuse a GE, see how it goes from there.

A civil war is out of the question and hardly necessary. There are numerous ways to remove this goverment from office. If the country calls a general strike or moves into a state of civil disobedience, it would be next to impossible for the Gardai or Army to control. They'll probably join once they see what the IMF have planned for them.

By civil disobedience, I mean people refusing to pay their taxes (where possible) rent, mortgage, and bills, refusing to buy non-essential goods (i.e. nothing besides food), and if possible, call a general strike.

Should the government still persist, I would call for a threat to start a run on one of the banks. AIB is the most vunerable, and the most deserving, its been a pillar of state corruption since its foundation. If the government refuses to give us an election, we can call for all Irish depositers to remove their funds from AIB. The IMF\EU, and indeed, the government, would be forced to act-they are after all, here to save our banks.

The banks are pretty much the peoples only bargining chip-by and large, we still have control over them by our deposits. The only thing the IMF and ECB have to really fear from us is one of our banks collapsing. They dont fear riots, civil unrest etc-why would they? Their international bankers themselves, all they fear is contagion of their system!

Any goverment could only survive for a week or two at most under that type of pressure, especially with the threat of a planned bank run. The business community would turn on them and lynch for us themselves.

RayM

I wonder, if the frontal part of your head was annoying you, would you - as an act of revenge - have your nasal vestibule and the entire surrounding appendage surgically removed? (sorry, I can't think of an appropriately catchy idiom right now...)

thetonynator

Oh yeah thats a great idea. Lets get them out before they pass a budget that will help the country get back on its feet. Them we'll elect fg lab coalition and our debt will spiral even more than it is now. Let the budget pass and the finance bill in january and then do whatever you want after that. Thanksfully Eamon Gilmore has promised that he will not undo any cuts brought in by the government in the budget, al least someone realises that cuts have to be made.

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

Any goverment could only survive for a week or two at most under that type of pressure, especially with the threat of a planned bank run. The business community would turn on them and lynch for us themselves.

Oh yeah what we really need now is anarchy. That'll go down really well internationally, especially when the NTMA have to try borrow in the spring on the bond market at what will then be about 15% because the IMF and ECB won't bail out a countrey that is in anarchy.

ballsymchugh

Direct Action? are they a new version of Direct Action Against Drugs, the crowd that were around on the mid 90s? they turned up out of nowhere shortly after the IRA ceasefire and disappeared after the canary wharf bombing. they would kindly ask them to leave i suppose?

later12

Why don't we all, this Sunday, go completely bananas and run around the streets in dressing gowns, making animal noises and setting fire to our hair? And lets all burn down our houses too.

Oh sorry, I thought this game was called 'how never to get anyone to borrow to you again. Ever'

RockinRolla

If their recovery plan includes a new property tax and water taxes which is now being heavily discussed - there will be outright riots!

DONT PAY IT! DONT PAY FOR THESE CRIMINALS MISTAKES!

HellFireClub

RockinRolla wrote: »

A planned march on December 7th to the Dail is being organised as we speak and if they still refuse a GE, see how it goes from there.

A civil war is out of the question and hardly necessary. There are numerous ways to remove this goverment from office. If the country calls a general strike or moves into a state of civil disobedience, it would be next to impossible for the Gardai or Army to control. They'll probably join once they see what the IMF have planned for them.

By civil disobedience, I mean people refusing to pay their taxes (where possible) rent, mortgage, and bills, refusing to buy non-essential goods (i.e. nothing besides food), and if possible, call a general strike.

Should the government still persist, I would call for a threat to start a run on one of the banks. AIB is the most vunerable, and the most deserving, its been a pillar of state corruption since its foundation. If the government refuses to give us an election, we can call for all Irish depositers to remove their funds from AIB. The IMF\EU, and indeed, the government, would be forced to act-they are after all, here to save our banks.

The banks are pretty much the peoples only bargining chip-by and large, we still have control over them by our deposits. The only thing the IMF and ECB have to really fear from us is one of our banks collapsing. They dont fear riots, civil unrest etc-why would they? Their international bankers themselves, all they fear is contagion of their system!

Any goverment could only survive for a week or two at most under that type of pressure, especially with the threat of a planned bank run. The business community would turn on them and lynch for us themselves.

Lol, I like this guy! ;-)

demakinz

Why dont we all email Cowen as may times as we can asking him to resign?
http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/contact/brian-cowen/default/

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

If their recovery plan includes a new property tax and water taxes which is now being heavily discussed - there will be outright riots!

DONT PAY IT! DONT PAY FOR THESE CRIMINALS MISTAKES!

Rates were only removed years ago to buy votes, there should be a property tax more or less every country in the western world has them. As for water - its ridiculous our system, people have no value for the cost of getting water to their homes because its free, an abundance of rain doesn't mean we shouldn't have water charges.

There will not be riots - we will take it lying down like we have taken everything else, and rightly so too. We all benefited in the boom years, some of us benefit too much even now. We all have to take a cut, and these two suggestions are some of the governments best ones to date.

RockinRolla

thetonynator wrote: »

Rates were only removed years ago to buy votes, there should be a property tax more or less every country in the western world has them. As for water - its ridiculous our system, people have no value for the cost of getting water to their homes because its free, an abundance of rain doesn't mean we shouldn't have water charges.

There will not be riots - we will take it lying down like we have taken everything else, and rightly so too. We all benefited in the boom years, some of us benefit too much even now. We all have to take a cut, and these two suggestions are some of the governments best ones to date.

Typical defeatist attitude.

You can take it lying down all you want but the true Irishmen and women will stand up when the time comes and say enough is enough. Why should we be brought in to pay when Fianna Fail and their cronies have stashed away personal wealth. There has been obvious corruption in our government and youre just going to sit back and say ah well, everyone else has property tax and water charges!

Get a grip, this attitude is a disgrace to this country.

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

Typical defeatist attitude.

You can take it lying down all you want but the true Irishmen and women will stand up when the time comes and say enough is enough. Why should we be brought in to pay when Fianna Fail and their cronies have stashed away personal wealth. There has been obvious corruption in our government and youre just going to sit back and say ah well, everyone else has property tax and water charges!

Get a grip, youre a disgrace to this country.

You are a disgrace, this country has one last chance to sort ourselves out, that being this forthcoming budget. And you want to derail this. This is our last chance, the current government won't last til the next budget, and the next one will be too weak to do anything. We have one last chance to save this country, and you are trying to make a balls of it because you want to be able to waste as much water as you want without having to pay for it.

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

Typical defeatist attitude.

You can take it lying down all you want but the true Irishmen and women will stand up when the time comes and say enough is enough. Why should we be brought in to pay when Fianna Fail and their cronies have stashed away personal wealth. There has been obvious corruption in our government and youre just going to sit back and say ah well, everyone else has property tax and water charges!

Get a grip, this attitude is a disgrace to this country.

Oh very nice, edit the post so that it appears that you haven't insulted me. Great plan, lucky i quoted it.

RockinRolla

thetonynator wrote: »

Oh very nice, edit the post so that it appears that you haven't insulted me. Great plan, lucky i quoted it.

I tried an ninja edit to highlight the fact thats its not just you, but the attitude many might have about paying for the mistakes FF made.

Inquitus

RockinRolla wrote: »

I tried an ninja edit to highlight the fact thats its not just you, but the attitude many might have about paying for the mistakes FF made.

No matter what you or anyone does from this point forward, we will have to pay our bills and our debt.

If you don't fancy a property tax, then we can always raise the same amount by cutting the dole by 25%, or perhaps by raising income tax by 5%, or reducing PS pay by 5%, tell us whats your preferred option?

thetonynator

Inquitus wrote: »

No matter what you or anyone does from this point forward, we will have to pay our bills and our debt.

If you don't fancy a property tax, then we can always raise the same amount by cutting the dole by 25%, or perhaps by raising income tax by 5%, or reducing PS pay by 5%, tell us whats your preferred option?

Not really actually, we will have to do all those things and more to meet the targets, its not an either/or situation, everything has to be cut not just some things.

Inquitus

thetonynator wrote: »

Not really actually, we will have to do all those things and more to meet the targets, its not an either/or situation, everything has to be cut not just some things.

The property tax will raise @ 1bn, so will all the alternatives I listed above. It is an either / or in the case as I have presented it above. If we don't have a property tax, we will have to find 1bn elsewhere, I outlined some of the other ways that 1bn might be raised or saved.

RockinRolla

Inquitus wrote: »

No matter what you or anyone does from this point forward, we will have to pay our bills and our debt.

If you don't fancy a property tax, then we can always raise the same amount by cutting the dole by 25%, or perhaps by raising income tax by 5%, or reducing PS pay by 5%, tell us whats your preferred option?

How about we add 20cent onto every magazine and newspaper sold in the country.

Cut the dole money to discourage people from living off it. For example, people who have contributed (or parents) to the economy for 5 years are the only ones eligable. That should take care of the scumbags and their families whove lived off it for their entire lives.

Promote St. Patricks Day around the world, but specifically Europe, with cheap Ryaniar flight sinto Dublin where a huge parade (organised by the NY Paddies Day Committee with opinions from the Brazilians about how to incorporate the superproduction of their Carnivals). Make St. Patricks Day a huge event with concerts in the Phoenix Park and beer gardens around Dublin resembling Oktoberfest. This should bring in huge tourism for the week as well as advertising money etc.

I dont want to pay tax and get nothing in return - at least in England, they collect your bins!

thetonynator

Inquitus wrote: »

The property tax will raise @ 1bn, so will all the alternatives I listed above. It is an either / or in the case as I have presented it above. If we don't have a property tax, we will have to find 1bn elsewhere, I outlined some of the other ways that 1bn might be raised or saved.

But we need 6bn, not 1. So if the property tax gets su 1, then all the other options will be needed to add up the other 5. Or we could just cancel metro north. :P

Inquitus

RockinRolla wrote: »

How about we add 20cent onto every magazine and newspaper sold in the country.

Putting a 20c tax on newspapers and magazines will effect sales and cause job losses at those newspapers and magazines. What it provides with one hand, it takes with the other. Remember that would be around a 20% rise in the cost of a paper.

RockinRolla wrote: »

Cut the dole money to discourage people from living off it. For example, people who have contributed (or parents) to the economy for 5 years are the only ones eligable. That should take care of the scumbags and their families whove lived off it for their entire lives.

I proposed this in another thread, give anyone with a few years of stamps the 200 euro, and degrade it slowly over time to around 70 euros if you have not worked for 5 years. This would save alot of money.

RockinRolla wrote: »

Promote St. Patricks Day around the world, but specifically Europe, with cheap Ryaniar flight sinto Dublin where a huge parade (organised by the NY Paddies Day Committee with opinions from the Brazilians about how to incorporate the superproduction of their Carnivals). Make St. Patricks Day a huge event with concerts in the Phoenix Park and beer gardens around Dublin resembling Oktoberfest. This should bring in huge tourism for the week as well as advertising money etc.

Paddys day already brings in huge tourism, with most hotels being full for the festival, we could certainly leverage it more and bring in more money, but that would only be a drop in the ocean in terms of the billions of savings needed. The limiting factor here is the amount of hotel space in Dublin.

Inquitus

thetonynator wrote: »

But we need 6bn, not 1. So if the property tax gets su 1, then all the other options will be needed to add up the other 5. Or we could just cancel metro north. :P

Clearly you fail at reading comprehension. The poster I quoted stated he did not want a property tax, which will bring in only 1bn of the 6bn required in the budget. I outlined a few alternatives to the property tax that could also bring in 1bn. Nowhere did I proffer that this was the only adjustment required. In future engage eyes and read, before engaging fingers to type.

Rabble Rabble

RockinRolla wrote: »

Typical defeatist attitude.

You can take it lying down all you want but the true Irishmen and women will stand up when the time comes and say enough is enough. Why should we be brought in to pay when Fianna Fail and their cronies have stashed away personal wealth. There has been obvious corruption in our government and youre just going to sit back and say ah well, everyone else has property tax and water charges!

Get a grip, this attitude is a disgrace to this country.

The moronic thing about anti-property tax muppetry is this: property is the one piece of wealth the rich can't hide, or move, or lie about. The guy with wealth who can hide his income, cant hide his property. The guy with the 3 M house will pay more than the middle income guy, but his income can be hidden.

So if your property tax is €400 it is replacing an income tax of €500-€600. Thats because the rich guy is paying his share in that tax, but not in income tax. ( Wll not all rich people avoid tax, but many do).

As for water charges, no more a tax than cable television. If you dont want to pay for water, go to the well.

boomchicawawa

Thank God there are others out there who feel like I do, the situation is depressing enough without making it even worse. Civil disobidience will be hi jacked by thugs out to distroy what we have left...burning and looting will ensue...did you watch the Greeks ? Their riots cost them millions to repair and killed their tourist industry this year. We are all appalled, gutted, angry etc but this is not the way to turn it all around. We have taken our medicine so far bitter as it is and we need to take some more to get us back on track. Can we afford an election now?, obviously we should not be lumbered with a government we dont thrust or respect any more but that other crowd are mostly a pack of muppets who coulden't throw a piss-up in a brewery in my opinion. I will vote for a candidate who is prepared to cut Td's pay and perks, and get moving on job creation....We need positive action from our government and from us all as a nation. This is our battle of Britain and we need to stick together and tough it out.

thetonynator

Inquitus wrote: »

Clearly you fail at reading comprehension. The poster I quoted stated he did not want a property tax, which will bring in only 1bn of the 6bn required in the budget. I outlined a few alternatives to the property tax that could also bring in 1bn. Nowhere did I proffer that this was the only adjustment required. In future engage eyes and read, before engaging fingers to type.

If we have to bring in all of the other measure you mentioned anyway, then we will have to bring in the property tax as well. Clearly you fail at basic intelligence.

We need all of the possible measures, there isnt really an alternative to it.

Inquitus

thetonynator wrote: »

Clearly you fail at basic intelligence.

I just saw your other thread, little mummies boy student who knows nothing about anything, clearly you fail at basic humanity and intelligence. The dole is indeed to high, but your crass analysis of it was pathetic.

thetonynator

Inquitus wrote: »

I just saw your other thread, little mummies boy student who knows nothing about anything, clearly you fail at basic humanity and intelligence. The dole is indeed to high, but your crass analysis of it was pathetic.

Student = eduction = i clearly do know. Grow up unless you are going to add to the forum. Its for discussion, not slating everyone who has a contrasting opinion. Although i will make an exception in your case.

Absurdum

ballsymchugh wrote: »

Direct Action? are they a new version of Direct Action Against Drugs, the crowd that were around on the mid 90s? they turned up out of nowhere shortly after the IRA ceasefire and disappeared after the canary wharf bombing. they would kindly ask them to leave i suppose?

We can name it Direct Action Against Fianna Fáil Traitors - DAFFT

thetonynator

Absurdum wrote: »

We can name it Direct Action Against Fianna Fáil Traitors - DAFFT

Might be a little bit self depracating . . .which i cant even spell :P

Inquitus

thetonynator wrote: »

Student = eduction = i clearly do know. Grow up unless you are going to add to the forum. Its for discussion, not slating everyone who has a contrasting opinion. Although i will make an exception in your case.

No student = young person who knows little to nothing as they have no life experience of note, and is receiving a specialised education in a very limited area. I had a Masters at 21 and by no means did it mean I knew anything about life. You have clearly shown you know nothing about life, the economy or indeed anything of note.

thetonynator

Inquitus wrote: »

No student = young person who knows little to nothing as they have no life experience of note, and is receiving a specialised education in a very limited area. I had a Masters at 21 and by no means did it mean I knew anything about life. You have clearly shown you know nothing about life, the economy or indeed anything of note.

Maybe if youd looked around you for a while you might have learned something about life. You dont have to have been in every single situation to see others in it and know what it is like.

you have clearly shown that youcan be arrogant and annoying when taking this view on this forum.

ArtSmart

There will be an election in February 2011.

so chill, enjoy the xmas.

I'll resign from oracles anonymous if there isn't.

Scofflaw

This thread actually fails the AH quality test - impressive work! Also, infractions.

moderately,
Scofflaw