E-Dole, call me cynical, but this will end up like E-Voting...

HellFireClub

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/mobile-voice-checks-to-catch-out-welfare-cheats-136951.html

Surprise check calls will be made to welfare claimants where they must answer a number of questions from an automated voice tagging system. If they fail to answer the phone three times, hang up, or their voice is not recognised, a text message will order them to visit their local dole office immediately.

Social Protection Minister Eamon O Cuív, whose department will roll out the system in January, denied yesterday that the scheme was a "nanny state" law.

It was, he said, designed to free up welfare staff as well as crack down on fraudulent claimants working or living abroad who claimed benefit.

"These are not Big Brother checks, people will be asked simple questions."

The measures, part of the Social Welfare Bill published today, will be tested in January before being extended to further claimants.

If dole recipients called by the department system are not in Ireland, the system will recognise this.

Nearly €900,000 could be saved by the department if the mobile phone signing-on system was taken up by 250,000 claimants.

Welfare claimants must initially visit dole offices where voices will be recorded for verification purposes.

Mr O Cuív explained: "It will be voice recognition. There’ll be questions asked and if the voice doesn’t match, the line will switch off and you’ll get a text to tell you to come in immediately. If you don’t answer the phone after three times, you get a text to come in. Under the present system, physically coming in and signing on, it just proves you’re there.

"It doesn’t prove what you did the other six days," he said.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/mobile-voice-checks-to-catch-out-welfare-cheats-136951.html#ixzz2Esu1OmP8

Nehaxak

Can't wait to see phonejacker taking the mickey out of this at some stage.

"Hello, we are calling to confirm your identity - please state your full name clearly after the beep"

"Paul Kelly"

"Beep"

"...Paul Kelly"

"You have given the name Mary Jones - is this correct"

"What ? No"

"Beep..."

"NO"

"Please confirm your identity after the beep"

"Paul Kelly"

"...Beeep"

"PAUL KELLY!"

"You have given the name Raul Welly - Is this correct"

"Oh come on"

"Beeep..."

"NO"

"Please confirm your identity after the beep"

"PAUL KELLY!!!"

"You have given the name Patrick Worthington - Is this correct"

"NNnnffff...."

"...Beep..."

"Fúck off"

"Thank you - your identity has been confirmed"

Ah but seriously, if it cuts down on the stupid queueing for what can be hours on end then grand, complete waste of resources and manpower for staff having to go through that all the time and utter humiliation for unemployed people having to queue up for what can be hours on end, just to sign your name on a bit of card

meglome

I'm very doubtful on the current governments ability to organise a Lesbian night in a nunnery but in principle it's a very good idea.

Duiske

cloakanddagger wrote: »

I think it is a terrific idea,we have far too many people in ireland committing welfare fraud,some are even still working

Slight problem though. If you tell the SW office that you do not own a phone, will they have to supply one and provide you with credit ? Could you ask them to supply a landline and pay the rental ?
Plus, even if they did supply a phone, it must surely be a contravention of human rights to force you to carry around a device which is essentially being used as a tracking device.


In the course of an investigation, its pretty easy for the Gardai to get information on who, when and to where someone travelled abroad.
Why can't SW have access to this info as well ?

whysomoody

Duiske wrote: »

it must surely be a contravention of human rights to force you to carry around a device which is essentially being used as a tracking device.

You are not being forced to carry it around, sign off if you don't like th terms.

Sarn

What's to stop somebody recording the key responses and having a mate play them back for them while they're out of the country? Not very difficult if you have a computer. Do this for several people, charge a commission and it would be a nice nixer.

Thoie

The theory is good, but the reality is awkward. I lose my voice relatively frequently which doesn't stop me going to work, but stops me from making phone calls. If I was unemployed and the system insisted I come into the office every time they couldn't make out it was me would be a pain in the neck. I couldn't phone the office to explain the situation, so I'd have to traipse in there and then resort to some crude sign language to make them understand the issue. Or I suppose I could write them a note, but it'd still be irritating.

not yet

HellFireClub wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/mobile-voice-checks-to-catch-out-welfare-cheats-136951.html

Surprise check calls will be made to welfare claimants where they must answer a number of questions from an automated voice tagging system. If they fail to answer the phone three times, hang up, or their voice is not recognised, a text message will order them to visit their local dole office immediately.

Social Protection Minister Eamon O Cuív, whose department will roll out the system in January, denied yesterday that the scheme was a "nanny state" law.

It was, he said, designed to free up welfare staff as well as crack down on fraudulent claimants working or living abroad who claimed benefit.

"These are not Big Brother checks, people will be asked simple questions."

The measures, part of the Social Welfare Bill published today, will be tested in January before being extended to further claimants.

If dole recipients called by the department system are not in Ireland, the system will recognise this.

Nearly €900,000 could be saved by the department if the mobile phone signing-on system was taken up by 250,000 claimants.

Welfare claimants must initially visit dole offices where voices will be recorded for verification purposes.

Mr O Cuív explained: "It will be voice recognition. There’ll be questions asked and if the voice doesn’t match, the line will switch off and you’ll get a text to tell you to come in immediately. If you don’t answer the phone after three times, you get a text to come in. Under the present system, physically coming in and signing on, it just proves you’re there.

"It doesn’t prove what you did the other six days," he said.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/mobile-voice-checks-to-catch-out-welfare-cheats-136951.html#ixzz2Esu1OmP8

And the problem is....?

High energy

Call diverting/forwarding could be used to easily get around this.

Social welfare call 087-XXXXXXX, it's forwarded to some spanish/polish/czech mobile number, answer the questions genuinely in your own voice and hey presto. SW never know the number they are being forwarded to.

That's just one serious flaw I can see with this system.

And actually if you are roaming with your existing number, they can get through to you in another country by just dialling your regular mobile no.

Duiske

whysomoody wrote: »

You are not being forced to carry it around, sign off if you don't like th terms.

:rolleyes:

Carry the phone or risk being unable to feed your family. Thats not forcing ?

tails_naf

What exactly does answering a phone call prove?
They could answer the phone call anywhere, either in bed ("for the I'm out looking for a job lads") or on a nixer ("I can't find work lads").

sounds like it's made it a whole lot easier to commit fraud to me...

breadandjam

"Nearly €900,000 could be saved by the department if the mobile phone signing-on system was taken up by 250,000 claimants"

Note the word "If" From my reading of this it's a voluntary scheme. If you plan on being out of the country or at work where you can't use a phone then you won't sign up to this.

Dorcha

Nehaxak looks at the humorous aspect of this, but there’s many a true word spoken in jest. Voice recognition software is not one hundred percent reliable. What if it doesn’t recognise a person’s voice, or that person happens to have a cold? I would never call another person an idiot or a liar but just for starters, a few people don’t have phones - either land lines or a mobile. It is a “Big Brother” type intrusion into people’s lives. And I can’t see how it is going to stop fraud.

It looks to me like another “big idea” by an out-of-touch minister, that has not been properly researched in all directions.

cee_jay

High energy wrote: »

Call diverting/forwarding could be used to easily get around this.

Social welfare call 087-XXXXXXX, it's forwarded to some spanish/polish/czech mobile number, answer the questions genuinely in your own voice and hey presto. SW never know the number they are being forwarded to.

That's just one serious flaw I can see with this system.

And actually if you are roaming with your existing number, they can get through to you in another country by just dialling your regular mobile no.

Would you not get a foreign dial tone though? Apparently the software will detect that it is a foreign dial tone, and tell the person to call into the office. As they are abroad, they will not be able to, and instantly fraud is detected and the claim can be closed.

flutered

i can see software being exchanged for alcohol in the pubs next year, yer man will upgrade you fone to s.w. specs for a few pints

donkey balls

The revenue have been using some form of voice reconition for years now the automated voice will ask you for your PPS nbr,Now most times that i use this service the automated voice reconition wont reconise the PPS nbr you have said.

angelfire9

donkey balls wrote: »

The revenue have been using some form of voice reconition for years now the automated voice will ask you for your PPS nbr,Now most times that i use this service the automated voice reconition wont reconise the PPS nbr you have said.

Oh yeah!
Please enter your PPS Number after the Beep, BEEP

1234567A

Is your number 2234567A?

NO

Please enter your PPS Number after the Beep, BEEP

1234567A

Is your number 1234567N?

NO

Please enter your PPS Number after the Beep, BEEP

Etc etc etc etc

And what if you have a funny sounding surname that the voice recognition software doesn't recognise?
Or if you have a head cold and you sound like a Martian ?

Can they not do random text messaging:

For example:
"Angelfire9 You have been randomly selected to sign on please present yourself at your local DSCFA office by close of business tomorrow"

99% of people have mobiles these days so have the computers programmed to randomly select 75 people every day to sign on

Voice recognition my ass

meemeep

The current system of sign on is a joke - no photo on the ID card - so go up to a hatch, meet a different person each month who doesn't look you in the eye anyway, then sign your name and leave.

Post office each week- same deal - present the card, take your cash and leave. Sure I could give my card to anyone to sign/collect for me.

I can't see how the phone system could be secure enough with voice recognition only.

However, I don't have an alternative solution, if I did I'd sell it to them!!