Ammunition manfacturing Ireland

Cork boy 55

question

Does any Company North or South manufacture muntions of any type in Ireland?

Ta

Cass

Afaik none.

firefly08

Kynoch used to.

I picked up a box of this old .303 ammo at my local store here in the 'States. Googled the brand name and it turns out they once had a munitions factory in Arklow but it closed down shortly after WW1. (This particular box below was made in England though)

harmoniums

There was a place in Galway that used to make shotgun ammo for Eley

Tackleberrywho

harmoniums wrote: »

There was a place in Galway that used to make shotgun ammo for Eley

Yes there were, back when Ireland was a cheap place

deerhunter1

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Yes there were, back when Ireland was a cheap place

Ya they used to or still do make explosives for the mines, we used to do duty in the silvermine's minding the explosives and detonators in containers delivered by them in the early 80's. AHHHHHHHHH those were the day's.:rolleyes:

Paddy Diver

Not quite ammo but there is a place in Skibbereen,West Cork that manufacture components for surface & air to air missiles. (so Ive been told)

Cork boy 55

OK

ta for replies
It looks like the Word on the street is we have no muntion factory in Ireland
So the next question are!!

Why not?
Where is the ammo coming from?
Would it possible to set up such a factory in Ireland?
Does not seem like a high tech industry?
What is the market?
irish ammo for irish guns?
A busniess idea?
employment opportunity?

Cass

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Why not?

Manufacturing costs would be higher, licensing laws surrounding firearms/ammunition are extremely strict leading to higher storage/security costs, employment costs are higher, as an island transport costs abroad would be higher, from a national POV not enough of a market to maintain multiple companies (small enough customer base), all componants would need to be imported again higher costs.

Just a few thoughts. As to why not so far. Troubles in the north would be top of my list, buti could be way out on that. Also firearm sports and activities have grown quite substantially in the last 10-15 years so however "small" the home market may be now it was much smaller 20/30/40 years ago. Also after WWII the need for constant/large ammunition manufacturing would have dropped significantly, hence leading to the decline of private ammunition manufacturing.

Again all guess work.

Where is the ammo coming from?

All from abroad. Different companies producing the ammunition, but only a few major importers that distribute the ammunition to individual dealers.

Would it possible to set up such a factory in Ireland?

Of course. The security demands would be enormous, but completely do-able.

Does not seem like a high tech industry?

Not high tech as much as high quality. Most shooters demand the best (at a reasonable price) whether it be plinking, hunting, or target shooting. It would be a high safety business with multiple safety checks and constant co-operation with the Gardai and DOJ.

What is the market?

250,000+ firearm holders. The majority of which are hunters/game shooters. Looing at shotgun cartridges, .22 rifle ammo and an assortment of centrefire caliber ammo (.223, .243, 6.5, .270, .308, etc)
Then there are a few thousand target shooters. From pellets for air rifle/pistol to .308 cal for fullbore target shooters. Then there are the clay pigeon shooters that require a high standard cartridge designed for clays, not to mention CF handgun ammo (.38, 9mm, .40, etc)

Generally there is a huge market for a company that could accomodate all these calibers and disciplines, however should there be multiple companies producing multiple calibers/makes of ammunition then maybe not so much. Although if the company is small and deals with a specific market ie. Target for example, they could develope the loads for that market and grow from there.

irish ammo for irish guns?

Absolutely. Irish owned guns though not Irish made, unless you want to cosider that route also.

A busniess idea?
employment opportunity?

Again absolutely. Employment, home based company, etc. Good idea.


Some market research would be a real eye opener although it would have to be a "blind" questionaire as i cannot see any lads giving personal information as to their firearms, etc, but at the end of the day all you want for a starting point would be calibers and amount of usage. A survey of firearm dealers selling trends would be helpful. Then concentrate on amount of firearms, popularity, bullet types, etc.


It has the potential to be great or terrible in equal measures. It will all boil down to price. A few years ago Lapua was the Factory brand to have for CF rifle target shooting. Then one dealer brought in some HPS. Then another, etc and so on. Now most target shooters use HPS. Some ammo would be hard to replace/better. Eley .22lr, RWS .22lr, Eley shotgun cartridges, etc. These are all built up over years of top shooters using them. It would be hard to break into a market with such a loyal customer base, but if it could be done it would pay off.

Cork boy 55

Thanks ezridax for replies

I am not into the private shooting scene here in Ireland yet
Although I was in the army a while back and know my weapons.

Forgive my ignorance of the complexities and costs of
manufacturing muntions for the Irish scene

I don't see why we could not develop an industry here
a factory in the country which could see the needs of both the
civilain sector and the Army/garda
It could also build 5.56 7.62 and 9mm ammo
seeing as we are a non-aligned island country
its actually a startegic need that we can manufacture your own
muntions.
I assume we are importing all our ammo from europe.
so its not a case of labour costs as with other manfactured items.
It could be a semi-state or a public private partnership
it could even be situated near or within an army base
thus dealing with security concerns( the army could guard it!!!)

I read somewhere we import 5.56 mm from Israel:rolleyes:

I wonder
How much state spends on ammo every year.
How much civialians spend on ammo every year.

demonloop

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Why not?
Where is the ammo coming from? Worldwide
Would it possible to set up such a factory in Ireland? Yes, after jumping through lots and lots of hoops.
Does not seem like a high tech industry? It depends what you're making.
What is the market? Small in Ireland, in both military and civilian markets
irish ammo for irish guns? There's no Irish gun makers AFAIK
A busniess idea? If you have a large wad of cash to lose yes, otherwise no.
employment opportunity?

See above

We need to be realistic here folks, the expense in setting up a basic ammo factory to be able to make ammo to the standard/quantity required would be immense, which alone would rule you out on price compared to established markets.

Liam_D

Emerald game I'm nearly sure these were IMI cartridges but haven't seen any in a couple of years.

Grizzly 45

Throw another neagative into the pot..Our "neutrality" stance:rolleyes::rolleyes:.
For some reason our selective neturality which allows us to enjoy the shelter of NATO when it suits or GB in the last little escapade,precludes us unlike other neutrals like Austria,Switzerland,Finland etc from developing a viable defence industry to help ourselves out should some Johnny Foreingr show up on our shores again and wish to invade.[Well, they are doing it now at the moment in busisness suits and breifcases rather than in combats and with a rifle:rolleyes:].Simply put Amnesty International and all the other do gooder NGBS here would be screaming blue murder about our "war weapons Industry",and of course they must be placated by our Govt to keep this sham of neutrality alive and well.
If they go totally anal about "dual use" components or whatnot.What do you think would be the outcry if we were selling "deanta in Eireinn" 9mm 5.56 ammo to the US /UK for use in the sandbox or out in "dad"???

There is an incredible market out there for 9mm,5.56 NATO,7.62 NATO, 12 GA and 7.62X39 and solong as it goes BANG rather than CLICK![Which could happen quite often if it was possibly made here knowing our quality control betimes..:rolleyes::eek:] We would be onto a fantastic winner.But there is no political will for it to do such.Also we would have to reactivate the proof house and that part of the firearms legislation.
One time in the 90s some young Garda suggested that the Gardai reload their own ammo.He was in the papers photographed with some bigwigs handing him a prize over a reloading bench.Was the Irish Press I think that did the article..Wonder whatever became of that idea??If AGS wont do it on a small time basis,which would be quite possible.How difficult will a full blown munitions plant be to set up here??

chem

Its alot like or anti nuclear stance. We use electricity made from it in the UK but we dont make our own using nuclear power. We also have some of the largest uranium ore deposite in the world, but our government wont allow it to be mined. Uranium ore is big money, but we wont use what we have

rowa

i read a very old issue of the irish shooters digest a fair few years ago and there was a (very small) gunmaking business somewhere like tipperary , the chap running the business was trying to get an irish proof house opened , did ireland ever have a proof house of our own ? back in victorian times when there were actually gunmakers here ? firearms actually made here do have to pass proof by law i suppose ?

Grizzly 45

That was PV Kavanagh in Birr,Rowa.He made ASFIK the only 20th centuary firearm here in the ROI.Called The Fenian it was a 12GA O/U with a pretty intresting action,somthing akin to a falling or sliding block.Only pic I've ever seen of these guns ,they look rather ungainly.If you are a "shooting times" reader.I saw this year an article in about August about the Fenian.
mostly they were all sold in the UK or Canada,and werent too dear either for their time.
Yes,we do still have belive it or not a proof house in Dublin castle,from quite awhile back too.There are many old guns with various harps on them out there.But thats when we had a gunmaker in almost every small town as well!:(.And the legislation in the Firearms act as well regarding prooving.However,we never had in recent times a qualified proofmaster to proove anything !! It did come about apprently because of Kavanaghs enterprise,however the NI situation kind of killed both off very quickly,and what with the demise of small gun makers and dealers in that time,the proof house became another useless thing in Dublin castle.

rowa

is the proof house still there ? or has it been put to other uses ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjPAAXP9yrY

an interesting video above to see actual manufacture and proofing of shotguns