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Bailout or loan

  • 18-11-2010 11:49am
    #1
    femur61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭


    Whats the difference? Will they dictate our internal affairs or do we just pay back interest.


Comments

  • #2
    stevedublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    You've answered your own question.


  • #3
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    The difference is the spin that FF will put on a Bailout and thus turning it into a loan


  • #4
    femur61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    stevedublin wrote: »
    You've answered your own question.

    No I didn't.

    I asked do they 1) dictate our internal OR 2) do we just pay the loan.


  • #5
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,378 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    femur61 wrote: »
    No I didn't.

    I asked do they 1) dictate our internal OR 2) do we just pay the loan.

    1) = Bailout
    2) = loan


  • #6
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    femur61 wrote: »
    No I didn't.

    I asked do they 1) dictate our internal OR 2) do we just pay the loan.

    Either one will come with Conditions from the IMF about Financial reductions that must be made - Translation They have control of our financial affairs.


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  • #7
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,378 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    But it depends on the conditions. If they tell us to raise CT then it is a bailout, if it is to tear up the Croke Park Agreement then it's a really good bailout. A loan offer based on stabilising the bank situation will probably attach restructuring conditions which would be such that we should be undertaking regardless.


  • #8
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Considering nobody else will lend to us, one guy saying we'll lend to you even though nobody else trusts you to give you time to turn yourself around is what I would call a bailout not a loan.

    A loan implies the person expects to be paid back but generally will not get involved in the day to day running of your business by attaching harsh conditions on giving you the loan.


  • #9
    marathont
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭marathont


    If we have to pay back the money + Interest. Then its a loan. A bailout is a gift.


  • #10
    Martin 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Martin 2


    marathont wrote: »
    If we have to pay back the money + Interest. Then its a loan. A bailout is a gift.

    From Wikipedia
    A bailout is an act of loaning or giving capital to an entity (a company, a country, or an individual) that is in danger of failing, in an attempt to save it from bankruptcy, insolvency, or total liquidation and ruin; or to allow a failing entity to fail gracefully without spreading contagion.
    We are getting loans, that we wouldn't get otherwise, to bail out the banks and prevent them from collapse.


  • #11
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    marathont wrote: »
    If we have to pay back the money + Interest. Then its a loan. A bailout is a gift.

    Considering that no one else is willing to loan at normal rates, one could think of it as a gift (with strings attached)


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  • #12
    gleep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭gleep


    Ah, sure it's only a Dig-out. Then we're going to win a few squid on de horses, change it into sterling and lodge it with AIB, but forget we did, everyone's a winner!


  • #13
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    marathont wrote: »
    If we have to pay back the money + Interest. Then its a loan. A bailout is a gift.

    In terms of bailouts at the state or bank level, a bailout is only ever a loan. Any loan we get is a bailout, because that's what a bailout is. Nobody has given the Greeks free money either - they got a preferential loan, neither more nor less.

    As to dictating internal affairs - they can dictate the conditions of our getting the loan, and we still pay back the loan and the interest.

    Think of it as debt consolidation - there are always conditions, and you still have to pay back the loan. Some of the conditions are likely to be, as they would be in any debt consolidation arrangement, restriction of our access to other credit sources (not the market, but probably the ECB).

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #14
    RandolphEsq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,296 ✭✭✭RandolphEsq


    Would there be less strings attached to a loan than to a bailout? e.g. corporation tax raising.


  • #15
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    RandolphEsq wrote: »
    Would there be less strings attached to a loan than to a bailout? e.g. corporation tax raising.

    No, because they're exactly the same thing. There was never a point at which anyone was offering to simply give us the money. Neither the IMF nor any other lender of last resort are in that business - they are lenders of last resort.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #16
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    It is a bailout. Whenever you hear about a country being bailed out by the IMF, it is in the form of a loan.


  • #17
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056082697


  • #18
    bryaner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭bryaner


    Daft.jpeg


  • #19
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    bryaner wrote: »
    Daft.jpeg

    his working hours are all wrong.

    Its more like 10-12 and 3-4 :P


  • #20
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Boskowski wrote: »
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056082697

    And right after anyone wastes their time reading that 'gem' of a sticky, Know that I also wondered how such a useless OP got so many thanks
    Laminations wrote: »
    Is this the low standard necessary for an OP to be stickied?? Pedantism from a FF blowhard?? The IMF may as well make the cuts.

    If you hand me over your purse that is your choice. Is it still considered your choice if you hand it over because I've a knife to your throat? Leaving aside whether we deserve losing our sovereignty or whether the economy was destroyed before the IMF comes in, it is pure pedantism to say that when the IMF come into a country that 'they don't make cuts, the government does'. If you 'force' someone to do something then you can't maintain that the choice is still theirs. Their free will (if you believe in such a thing) is hugely dimished when they are given ultimatums and conditions.

    When can we have a thread stickied that outlines how cancerous FF are to democracy and the people? We all need a constant reminder of the damage they've done rather thasn a pedantic discussion on who will be making the cuts as a result of their failures.


  • #21
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    Laminations wrote: »
    And right after anyone wastes their time reading that 'gem' of a sticky, Know that I also wondered how such a useless OP got so many thanks
    The words Bruising and Cruising keep coming into my mind whenever I see you posts.

    Why is that? LOL :D;)


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  • #22
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    The words Bruising and Cruising keep coming into my mind whenever I see you posts.

    Why is that? LOL :D;)

    It's a genuine wonder of mine how that 'one simple fact' deserves a sticky when there are countless other more important and less pedantic facts that people should be reminded of. Does it really matter to the debate that 'technically' the IMF or anyone offering us cash dont go and sit in the Dail and openly make decisions. The conditions of any bailout guides whatever government is in power


  • #23
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    Laminations wrote: »
    It's a genuine wonder of mine how that 'one simple fact' deserves a sticky when there are countless other more important and less pedantic facts that people should be reminded of. Does it really matter to the debate that 'technically' the IMF or anyone offering us cash dont go and sit in the Dail and openly make decisions. The conditions of any bailout guides whatever government is in power
    My reading is this.

    There's a lot of ridiculous talk and panic going around to the direction that the IMF take over a country, essentially replacing the elected government.

    That type of thinking has a way of spreading.

    So yes, the point made by Nintyniner is an important one for general public welfare = sticky.


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