Fianna Fail: A spent force in Irish politics?

AngryLips

If it's at all possible to leave aside political affiliations and feelings/experiences of the economic crash; what are people's opinions about Fianna Fail after all of this? Are they a spent political force? Does the fact that we have the IMF at our doorsteps changed the political landscape of this country forever? Curious to see what everyone's opinions are on this...

Sir Oxman

Leaving aside my heartfelt hope that they will be swept away and shunned by the populace for the rest of their rotten, corrupt lives I have to say the big banger in that hope is a steady rump of thick, selfish, gombeen Irish people and invariably the many, many thousands who have suckled at the rotten FF tit.

So, unfortunately no - these parasites will live to slither their way back in to power eventually.

Floppybits

I would like to think FF are a spent but I don't think they are. I think they will win in the Donegal by election. They will be kicked out of government at the next election but I can see them then coming back into government the election after that.

FF are very well organised at grass roots level and so ingrained in some peoples DNA. Just look at their support holding steady between 18 and 22% despite all that has happened.

I going to do a Nostradamus here predict the future, FF get kicked out at next election, the new government have to bring in tough tough measures to repair the damage done by FF, FF will have a purge in the party that will see most of the front bench being forced out and new faces appearing all over the place, In the Public People become unhappy with the tough measures that the government have had to introduce and FF will become popular again and will end up in government the election after next and so the cycle of boom bust boom bust will begin again.

johnnyskeleton

It would take several terms of FF being out of power before there is even a chance that they would go. While FG and Labour supporters support those parties for policy or similar reasons, the support for FF is based entirely on them being the party of power. Take that away from them, give some time to let all senior civil servants, gardai, judges and quangocrats retire and be replaced by people who are either best suited for the job or at least not appointed soely on the basis of their political allegance then maybe there is a chance FF will be destroyed.

But I suspect after a term out of power they will develop some kind of secret and cool economic strategy that will make us all as rich as we were under Bertie if you just trust em. Then they will slide back into power and the traditional form of Irish politics will be restored.

Even with their massive unpopularity now, I still think they will get 40+ seats in the Dail, and they may even be in a position to go into power with Labour.

the groutch

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Even with their massive unpopularity now, I still think they will get 40+ seats in the Dail, and they may even be in a position to go into power with Labour.

can't see gilmore pressing the self-destruct button on his political career like that

alfa beta

simple answer - no.

reason - other parties will assume the position of 'power'. Then they'll continue making a mess of stuff and after 4 or 5 years (or a decade at the outset) people will think, hey what if the opposition were in government....

funny system really!

AngryLips

yea but we have so much opposition to choose from. At the height of the boom no one thought the PDs would self destruct as they did. With the popularity as it stands now Labour and FG will be the two largest parties in the Dail.

PeterIanStaker

As I said in the other post, people are sadly so institutionalised that they'd get out of their deathbeds to vote FF. They're like a cancer.

yoshytoshy

If there was a great political party out there ,young and ready to go ,I'd say we could kiss goodbye to most of the td's in the dail over the next ten years.

The current opposition seem like good people ,but most of them are at semi-retirement age ,I'd say if they were elected as new government ,they consider it their pension.

dlofnep

Fianna Fáil will be back in Government within 8 years IMO.. Probably sooner knowing the Irish electorate.

Sand

Yeah, Id agree - Fianna Fail are far from spent.

The important thing is to institute constitutional and electoral reform so that the political and legislative system has sufficient checks and oversight to prevent gombeen eejits of any political stripe ever having the chance to bully and bluster and bluff their way through. Literally root and branch reform is required.

As the Donegal by-election has shown, Irish people arent going to change, Irish politicians arent going to change and Irish political parties arent going to change. So we need to change the system so as to prevent these morons doing harm.

jimmycrackcorm

Sand wrote: »

As the Donegal by-election has shown, Irish people arent going to change, Irish politicians arent going to change and Irish political parties arent going to change..

Time machine FAIL.

Doherty well tipped to win the seat; nice guy that he is, he's of no use to anybody unless there's a chance that Sinn Fein can become the Greens of a new coalition.

Seth Brundle

Floppybits wrote: »

I would like to think FF are a spent but I don't think they are. I think they will win in the Donegal by election. They will be kicked out of government at the next election but I can see them then coming back into government the election after that.

They will have to pull a few strings then...
http://www.breakingnews.ie/text/ireland/eyidcwkfsncw/

ArtSmart

Was thinking about that very thing myself.

If there is a sense that we've surrender a portion of our sovereignty i do think it might well be the death knell of FF.

Hard to imagine / believe, but I think it's possible.

The dust off the past may finally be kicked off the Irish Psyche.

This is especially true, if things are bad over the next four years.

Very few will forget what brought it about.

Even FF wouldn't be able to spin that one.

We live in interesting times...

ArtSmart

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Even with their massive unpopularity now, I still think they will get 40+ seats in the Dail, and they may even be in a position to go into power with Labour.

Labour will not commit political suicide by attaching itself to FF. Not this election. Not even the removal of their entire front bench as a condition would be enough.

Liam Byrne

I would hope they are, but a combination of their weasel-like characteristics and the blind stupidity of a certain percentage of the electorate will probably - and unfortunately - mean that they continue to exist in some form or other.

Mister men

I think it will at least a decade before people take them serious again and even then they'll never be a force in politics again the way they have been.

bob5666

there all the same( labour. fg, ff , sinn fein none of them wud hav said stop in the celtic tiger years just keep handing out the money to keep da votes and we were happy to take it who ever said stop was mad so i done think its totally fianna fail fault all da rest wud have none da same thing if there were in power at da time , we the people are half 2 blame should hav said stop to it all insteady of beening so greedy and i was 1 of them people 2 wen i look bac , but fianna fail will get hammed in da next election

Seth Brundle

ArtSmart wrote: »

Labour will not commit political suicide by attaching itself to FF. Not this election. Not even the removal of their entire front bench as a condition would be enough.

Whilst I doubt that they would do it, may I remind you of Trevor Seargeant's promise before the last GE?

Liam Byrne

bob5666 wrote: »

we the people are half 2 blame should hav said stop to it all insteady of beening so greedy and i was 1 of them people 2 wen i look bac , but fianna fail will get hammed in da next election

More FF bull****, this time bundled in irritating text-speak, probably as a lame attempt to mask the fact that it's from FF's PR department.

If you were greedy, then fine.......accept some responsibility.

Many of us weren't greedy, though, and that is why FF are completely out of touch with their attempts at "collective" responsibility, a concept that they strangely didn't acknowledge when things were reasonably good (and sustainable) in the early 90s.

If "we the people" are at fault, then who was Ahern suggesting should commit suicide ?

johnnyskeleton

the groutch wrote: »

can't see gilmore pressing the self-destruct button on his political career like that

ArtSmart wrote: »

Labour will not commit political suicide by attaching itself to FF. Not this election. Not even the removal of their entire front bench as a condition would be enough.

It's a very different scenario after the election. Saying they will go in with FF prior to the election would be a bad move, but after the election if FF do better than FG and Labour are the biggest party, they might find that the massive cuts and no tax increases that FG offer isn't as tempting as the "whatever you're having yourself" attitude of FF.

And, as Kbannon says, no one would have said the Greens would go into government with FF prior to the 2007 election.

I guess people forget that at the end of the day politicians are politicans, and they will do whatever suits them at any given time.

Liam Byrne

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It's a very different scenario after the election. Saying they will go in with FF prior to the election would be a bad move, but after the election if FF do better than FG and Labour are the biggest party, they might find that the massive cuts and no tax increases that FG offer isn't as tempting as the "whatever you're having yourself" attitude of FF.

Well then everyone in the country should do what I'm going to do......get Labour candidates to sign that they will not go into government with FF, and if they don't, then refuse to vote for them.

Tell them we have learned from the experience of The Greens, and we need assurances that they won't countenance such a sell-out.

bob5666

not from ff dont care about them just saying it as it is the truth hurts think of all the people who brought new cars hoilday homes all around the world people who bought investment houses all on borrowed money , went on hoildays few times a year , build big mansion of houses ,competition wit next door who has the biggest and best thats who i mean was greedy

Tom Patrick Bateman

AngryLips wrote: »

If it's at all possible to leave aside political affiliations and feelings/experiences of the economic crash; what are people's opinions about Fianna Fail after all of this? Are they a spent political force? Does the fact that we have the IMF at our doorsteps changed the political landscape of this country forever? Curious to see what everyone's opinions are on this...

Fianna Fail are gong nowhere, the people will keep on voting gombeen until the country is completely destroyed. The fools will ruin us all.

ArtSmart

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It's a very different scenario after the election. Saying they will go in with FF prior to the election would be a bad move, but after the election if FF do better than FG and Labour are the biggest party, they might find that the massive cuts and no tax increases that FG offer isn't as tempting as the "whatever you're having yourself" attitude of FF.

And, as Kbannon says, no one would have said the Greens would go into government with FF prior to the 2007 election.

I guess people forget that at the end of the day politicians are politicans, and they will do whatever suits them at any given time.

The numbers will be tight. Assuming Labour will be the biggest however it's a case of how many portfolios / positions Labour would have to give away to FG versus FF.

If it's a significant number between FG and FF, yes, you're probably right.
but if FG don't do so well, and the difference is not too big, Labour will relish the chance to eliminate one of the two big opposition parties and will hook up with FG

This is pretty interesting, because ,to me, Ireland has been blessed that it doesn't have the two party system of the US and Britain. (debatable point, but it's really a POV thing)

so if FG don't do so well, it will actually cause the weakening of FF as they (FF) will be excluded from government - weird huh?

and if FF don't get in this time with Labour, they may well be finished. Something I imagine all players are reflecting upon...


(either way of course, Cowen's political career is over, and prob Coughlan, Hanafin and Smith.

AngryLips

Okay. Assuming Fianna Fail is not dead in the water, how long will it be out of office as a result? Having a quick look through Wikipedia for details of how ruling political parties in other countries fared as a result of an economic collapse I came across the below points:

• It took the USA 20 years before it elected another Republican President after the Great Depression.

• After the economic collapse of Sweden in the 1992 it took the Swedes 12 years before electing the Moderate Party back into power.

• Argentina's economic collapse in 2001 has seen the main ruling party at the time fail to return to power since. It is currently the largest party in opposition.

• The New Aspiration party that was in power when Thailand's economy contracted in 1997 at the beginning of the Asian financial crisis has never returned to Government. However, the party was later subsumed by another party that took office less than four years later.

Rebelheart

Fianna Fáil-The Republican Party will stand four-square with the Irish people until the end. They will never leave us. They are part of who we are.

They might - and it's a big might - absent themselves from power for five years. The competition isn't exactly overwhelming so don't count on it. If they do, when they come back they'll be smelling of roses again.

This society needs a revolution, not a bloody one but a radical reform of the entire political system from the parish cumann up to the Áras. Anybody who genuinely thinks Irish politics will be culturally less corrupt and/or parochial because Fine Gael and Labour are in power is seriously deluded. Seriously. Meanwhile, and I've said it before, the same civil service which decided Fianna Fáil policy will decide Labour and Fine Gael policy.

Anybody who has any experience of local politics in this country knows that both parties act precisely the same as Fianna Fáil when they have the dominant voice in the local County Council, VEC etc and your future can depend upon your relationship to the political party which they represent. That is the political society which we've institutionalised, and which we sustain, by our political system. Nothing short of a revolution will change this cancer on civic life.

Voting the other two buckos into government will not change the system. It will just change the group which benefits from it. After 13 years out of government both Fine Gael and Labour have a lot of political debts/back scratching to repay and this system is made for that. It ain't going to change under their watch either.

hinault

My earnest hope is that FF will be smashed in the upcoming GE to the extent that they're out of office for at least the next decade.

This brings in to question the calibre of the opposition.
By rights a functioning opposition should have had FF out of office long before now.

FF are like women.
Can't live with them but you can't live with them either.

If they get smashed in the next GE, we could well have a load of independent/ex FF candidates elected.
This would be even worse for the country.

Liam Byrne

hinault wrote: »

FF are like women.
Can't live with them but you can't live with them either.

I know you meant to have a "not" or an "-out" in there, but the fact is that it seems more in keeping with my opinion because of the omission.

hinault

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I know you meant to have a "not" or an "-out" in there, but the fact is that it seems more in keeping with my opinion because of the omission.

:D:D

spotted Liam.

I was doing a Peter Power when I was typing:D

Liam Byrne

hinault wrote: »

:D:D

spotted Liam.

I was doing a Peter Power when I was typing:D

Saying it twice for emphasis while meaning the opposite ?

oppenheimer1

FF? Oh they are gone - kaput! They will return 25-30 seats at most so could possibly make up the junior partner in a new government. However who would go in with them?

Then again FF may not even stand in the next election, it appears their TDs are all out for their own jobs and want to distance themselves from the cabinet. Major fractures could emerge leaving new party's. Lenihen, Martin, Dempsey and Aherne all fancy themselves as leaders.

Anyway I hope its a FG majority govt that is returned to the next Dáil as I don't think labour will have the stomach for the fight ahead. However when it comes to my constituency, I'm disappointed with the quality of politician that will be put forward (Longford - Westmeath). Who would you choose? James Bannon (FG) The ultimate parish pump politician and utter clown whose only purpose seems to be is attending funerals. Mae Sexton (Lab) Career politician, Decided to switch from the PD's to Lab in order to ride on the coat-tails of the popular Willie Penrose. Willie Penrose (Lab) Meant to be good but don't agree with his policies. Peter Kelly and Mary O'Rourke (FF) After whats happened I couldn't possibly vote for them. There will be a whole host of single issue campaigners too.

We want change, but the shit we're being served in terms of quality candidates just doesn't inspire confidence.

Hopefully Bannon has a decent running mate.

Amazotheamazing

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

FF? Oh they are gone - kaput! They will return 25-30 seats at most so could possibly make up the junior partner in a new government. However who would go in with them?

Then again FF may not even stand in the next election, it appears their TDs are all out for their own jobs and want to distance themselves from the cabinet. Major fractures could emerge leaving new party's. Lenihen, Martin, Dempsey and Aherne all fancy themselves as leaders.

Anyway I hope its a FG majority govt that is returned to the next Dáil as I don't think labour will have the stomach for the fight ahead. However when it comes to my constituency, I'm disappointed with the quality of politician that will be put forward (Longford - Westmeath). Who would you choose? James Bannon (FG) The ultimate parish pump politician and utter clown whose only purpose seems to be is attending funerals. Mae Sexton (Lab) Career politician, Decided to switch from the PD's to Lab in order to ride on the coat-tails of the popular Willie Penrose. Willie Penrose (Lab) Meant to be good but don't agree with his policies. Peter Kelly and Mary O'Rourke (FF) After whats happened I couldn't possibly vote for them. There will be a whole host of single issue campaigners too.

We want change, but the shit we're being served in terms of quality candidates just doesn't inspire confidence.

Hopefully Bannon has a decent running mate.

On what basis do you think Fianna Fail will lose 49 seats? I just can't see an event that would lead to that when we know a solid 20% of the population will vote for them. I guess it's possible Fianna Fail will end up with less than 50 seats, but that would be an astonishing low for them. At present, the lowest number of seats they ever had since coming to power was 65 back in 1954. I guess they'll come back after the election with 50 to 60 seats and the reason for that is that where Fianna Fail are weak they've already lost seats, but in rural Ireland they are going to continue to hold seats they've traditionally held, as much of lack of credible alternatives as anything else. Apart from FG, none of the other parties have a strong rural base.

For Ireland to move away from the clientalism that currently dominates Irish politics we need massive reform of the political system, none of the other parties will do that, imo.

Rebelheart

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Anyway I hope its a FG majority govt that is returned to the next Dáil as I don't think labour will have the stomach for the fight ahead.

The Blueshirts will have the stomach alright for ... reducing the number of SNAs in schools and LSOs (learning support officers). They won't give a damn about those poor kids, or their stressed-out parents. Neither will they care about teachers in classes with 30-odd students including the former recipient of learning support who is now so behind everybody else that he is disrupting the class and has firmly turned into the class clown. They'll continue on the present government's policy (since 2008) of not funding gaelscoileanna regardless of popular support in local communities. With Brian Hayes as Minister for Education, anti-Irish language policies will reach a new height, and the Fine Gael treatment of locally-supported gaelscoileanna will be the tip of the iceberg.

But they've already made it very clear they haven't the stomach to take the €100 million subsidy which the Irish state gives per annum to private fee-paying schools.

Clearly, the strength of the Fine Gael stomach is related to the votes they get from the section of society which may be affected by their policies. Quelle surprise.

oppenheimer1

Rebelheart wrote: »

The Blueshirts will have the stomach alright for ... reducing the number of SNAs in schools and LSOs (learning support officers). They won't give a damn about those poor kids, or their stressed-out parents. Neither will they care about teachers in classes with 30-odd students including the former recipient of learning support who is now so behind everybody else that he is disrupting the class and has firmly turned into the class clown. They'll continue on the present government's policy (since 2008) of not funding gaelscoileanna regardless of popular support in local communities. With Brian Hayes as Minister for Education, anti-Irish language policies will reach a new height, and the Fine Gael treatment of locally-supported gaelscoileanna will be the tip of the iceberg.

But they've already made it very clear they haven't the stomach to take the €100 million subsidy which the Irish state gives per annum to private fee-paying schools.

Clearly, the strength of the Fine Gael stomach is related to the votes they get from the section of society which may be affected by their policies. Quelle surprise.

Well more will then have to be demanded from the teaching profession. Like say running special catchup classes for those left behind and struggling during the summer months? We need to think outside the box and get better value for money from what we have.

oppenheimer1

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

On what basis do you think Fianna Fail will lose 49 seats? I just can't see an event that would lead to that when we know a solid 20% of the population will vote for them. I guess it's possible Fianna Fail will end up with less than 50 seats, but that would be an astonishing low for them. At present, the lowest number of seats they ever had since coming to power was 65 back in 1954. I guess they'll come back after the election with 50 to 60 seats and the reason for that is that where Fianna Fail are weak they've already lost seats, but in rural Ireland they are going to continue to hold seats they've traditionally held, as much of lack of credible alternatives as anything else. Apart from FG, none of the other parties have a strong rural base.

For Ireland to move away from the clientalism that currently dominates Irish politics we need massive reform of the political system, none of the other parties will do that, imo.

At 20% of the vote they should only be returning 33 to the Dáil. Granted PRSTV won't give complete proportionality but its pretty good. I'm also factoring in the fact that for the first time in this budget coming they will be going after the pensioners. When you hit someone in the pocket, it changes allegiances. Depending on timing, I wouldn't be surprised if they polled between 12-15% come election day. There is no rule that says FF will survive and this time I think they've bitten off more than they can chew. If FG had an inspiring leader it could be even worse for them.

Dannyboy83

Rebelheart wrote: »

They'll continue on the present government's policy (since 2008) of not funding gaelscoileanna regardless of popular support in local communities. With Brian Hayes as Minister for Education, anti-Irish language policies will reach a new height, and the Fine Gael treatment of locally-supported gaelscoileanna will be the tip of the iceberg.

Clearly, the strength of the Fine Gael stomach is related to the votes they get from the section of society which may be affected by their policies. Quelle surprise.

erm.....just totally contradicted yourself there.

Amazotheamazing

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

At 20% of the vote they should only be returning 33 to the Dáil. Granted PRSTV won't give complete proportionality but its pretty good. I'm also factoring in the fact that for the first time in this budget coming they will be going after the pensioners. When you hit someone in the pocket, it changes allegiances. Depending on timing, I wouldn't be surprised if they polled between 12-15% come election day. There is no rule that says FF will survive and this time I think they've bitten off more than they can chew. If FG had an inspiring leader it could be even worse for them.

Very hard to see it, tbh, because FF votes aren't always based on rationality.

People have repeatedly shown an ability to adopt an ambivalent approach to FF in the sense that they vote for the local FF'er while publically disavowing FF as a party. How often do we hear "I can't stand FF but (for argument's sake) that Peter Power did me a good turn/is a nice guy/isn't like the rest of them etc"

Anyhow, the only party capable of locking into FF's rural vote is FG, Labour have never been a rural party, SF have only isolated pockets of support, the Socialists are an urban party and the Greens may not exist after the next election (or at least, may not have a TD). I think it's massively unlikely that any of Lab, SF or the Socialists will reverse their history and pick up rural seats to any large degree.

That being the case, it's a straight decision between FF and FG. This is where the above spiel gets played out. When it comes down to it, in a significant number of constituencies, people will choose FF over FG, these will be the rural ones where seats descend through families.

If I'm wrong, and by some miracle FF are wiped out outside the cities, it'll probably be the greatest shift in Irish politics since FF entered the Dail. It'll be the beginning of the end of FF as the real powerhouse of Irish politics, sadly it won't end the culture of gombeenism that will slowly corrupt the other parties.

Rebelheart

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

erm.....just totally contradicted yourself there.

Not at all. There's a hugely disproportionate number of Fine Gael voters among the people who would benefit from that €100 million subsidy to fee-paying schools. That is why Fine Gael will not make cutbacks in this area and instead will continue to redirect the €100 million from the public school system to these fee-paying private schools.

The same Fine Gael support base does not exist in any of the other sections of the education system, which is why Fine Gael will be more than willing to make cutbacks there.

Amazotheamazing

Rebelheart wrote: »

Not at all. There's a hugely disproportionate number of Fine Gael voters among the people who would benefit from that €100 million subsidy to fee-paying schools. That is why Fine Gael will not make cutbacks in this area and instead will continue to redirect the €100 million from the public school system to these fee-paying private schools.

The same Fine Gael support base does not exist in any of the other sections of the education system, which is why Fine Gael will be more than willing to make cutbacks there.

Don't know about that, Gaelscoileanna tend to be full of the kids of middle class FG voters.

JupiterKid

I would dearly love to see Fianna Fail completely destroyed, but sadly, as other posters pointed out here they are like a cancer in Irish politics. There are quite a lot of voters out there whose worlds and minds are very small and extremely limited and will vote for FF no matter what. That said, if pensioners are hit in the coming budget then FF can kiss goodbye to much of their support base.

For far too long, rural Ireland has got its own way politically. No longer - it's time for urban Ireland to assert itself aggressively and put rural Ireland in its place.

Sergeant

JupiterKid wrote: »

For far too long, rural Ireland has got its own way politically. No longer - it's time for urban Ireland to assert itself aggressively and put rural Ireland in its place.

I'm not sure what this means? The voters of Dublin have returned Bertie Ahern, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke and Ivor Callely in recent times. Being a sleeveen is not the sole preserve of the rural politician. It manifests itself across rural/urban, and class divides.

It's time for Ireland to assert itself aggressively and put gombeen politics in its place

mistermouse

Rebelheart wrote: »

. Anybody who genuinely thinks Irish politics will be culturally less corrupt and/or parochial because Fine Gael and Labour are in power is seriously deluded. Seriously. Meanwhile, and I've said it before, the same civil service which decided Fianna Fáil policy will decide Labour and Fine Gael policy.

Anybody who has any experience of local politics in this country knows that both parties act precisely the same as Fianna Fáil when they have the dominant voice in the local County Council, VEC etc and your future can depend upon your relationship to the political party which they represent. That is the political society which we've institutionalised, and which we sustain, by our political system. Nothing short of a revolution will change this cancer on civic life.

Voting the other two buckos into government will not change the system. It will just change the group which benefits from it. After 13 years out of government both Fine Gael and Labour have a lot of political debts/back scratching to repay and this system is made for that. It ain't going to change under their watch either.

Completely agree. Its down to how our failed system works and most governments/councils really are figureheads for various departments where staff stay the same in a failed public service system also.

Most political parties also seem to make great use of PR consultants/ pollsters etc to decide their policies and outlooks rather than be in the business of public service, they are overpaid for.

Its always been a process of getting into power and then getting to stay there, nothing to do with national interest

Change of systems and thinking is required and never happened yet in change of government

Liam Byrne

Rebelheart wrote: »

The Blueshirts will have the stomach alright for ... reducing the number of SNAs in schools and LSOs (learning support officers). They won't give a damn about those poor kids, or their stressed-out parents.

Let's not forget the facts why this action is required, eh ?

And I thought the pathetic "blueshirts" attempted slur was banned ?

Liam Byrne

JupiterKid wrote: »

For far too long, rural Ireland has got its own way politically. No longer - it's time for urban Ireland to assert itself aggressively and put rural Ireland in its place.

Ah yes, because Dublin's beloved Ahern did SOOOOOO well...... :rolleyes:

Not to mention Limerick's O'Dea - just so that we get a proper definition of urban and my point still rings true.

Rebelheart

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And I thought the pathetic "blueshirts" attempted slur was banned ?

Get over yourself. Calling them the Blueshirts is now banned? Somebody better tell that to the former Fine Gael senator Maurice Manning.

But it's very revealing to see that you're solidly behind Fine Gael the Blueshirts and are more than willing to labour under the illusion that a change of government will lead to a better Ireland. Nothing could be further from the truth. But you work away there screaming out for censorship of anybody who uses nomenclature that you disagree with. Now, that's pathetic.

Liam Byrne

Rebelheart wrote: »

But it's very revealing to see that you're solidly behind Fine Gael the Blueshirts and are more than willing to labour under the illusion that a change of government will lead to a better Ireland. Nothing could be further from the truth. But you work away there screaming out for censorship of anybody who uses nomenclature that you disagree with. Now, that's pathetic.

Wrong on so many levels that it doesn't really warrant a reply.

But since you mentioned "illusions", I'll clear up one of yours for you : I'm currently 50/50 as to whether I'll be voting FG or Labour, with a strong chance that it'll actually be an independent as #1, simply because FG haven't objected enough to certain objectionable activities recently.

So you can forget your ridiculous claims that I'm "solidly behind FG", because you're quite frankly talking through your arse.

Shea O'Meara

FFail will never disappear.

To a greater extent than any other party they have a strong core of supporters who will always vote for them. The only deciding factor in regards to being in complete power are FFail friendly floating voters, most of which won't vote for them the next time around.

You get FFail supporters who cannot comprehend why each of us aren't affiliated to a party come what may. They don't understand the concept of voting for a party or person based on their actions and record.

It's a case of family loyalty and tradition when it comes to the polls for these people.
A view of us and them. If you're not attached by the hip to FFail, you're one of them.

I personally don't get it. It makes no sense logically.
At this point, starting with Dev, we've seen generational corruption and incompetence, (which I believe is a by-product related to corruption) yet all it takes is a few years of no apparent scandals and some FFail friendly floaters begin to think, 'Why not FFail?' and the cycle starts again.
It's upsetting really.

irishh_bob

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

FFail will never disappear.

To a greater extent than any other party they have a strong core of supporters who will always vote for them. The only deciding factor in regards to being in complete power are FFail friendly floating voters, most of which won't vote for them the next time around.

You get FFail supporters who cannot comprehend why each of us aren't affiliated to a party come what may. They don't understand the concept of voting for a party or person based on their actions and record.

It's a case of family loyalty and tradition when it comes to the polls for these people.
A view of us and them. If you're not attached by the hip to FFail, you're one of them.

I personally don't get it. It makes no sense logically.
At this point, starting with Dev, we've seen generational corruption and incompetence, (which I believe is a by-product related to corruption) yet all it takes is a few years of no apparent scandals and some FFail friendly floaters begin to think, 'Why not FFail?' and the cycle starts again.
It's upsetting really.

fianna fail are a cult

Monty Burnz

irishh_bob wrote: »

fianna fail are a cult

I think you were out by a letter there.

Eutow

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

FFail will never disappear.

To a greater extent than any other party they have a strong core of supporters who will always vote for them. The only deciding factor in regards to being in complete power are FFail friendly floating voters, most of which won't vote for them the next time around.

You get FFail supporters who cannot comprehend why each of us aren't affiliated to a party come what may. They don't understand the concept of voting for a party or person based on their actions and record.

It's a case of family loyalty and tradition when it comes to the polls for these people.
A view of us and them. If you're not attached by the hip to FFail, you're one of them.

I personally don't get it. It makes no sense logically.
At this point, starting with Dev, we've seen generational corruption and incompetence, (which I believe is a by-product related to corruption) yet all it takes is a few years of no apparent scandals and some FFail friendly floaters begin to think, 'Why not FFail?' and the cycle starts again.
It's upsetting really.

Completely agree. It has been mentioned somewhere else on this forum that FF supporters are like football fans who will support their team even if they get relegated and are sh*te, but in this case will support FF no matter what and bankrupting a country will not change this.

Whenever a person comes on defending FF, they will say they are an "FF supporter". They rarely say they are a supporter of good competent and transparent governance. Competence and FF don't mix anyway and never will. This cult is a cancer on Ireland and if what has happened over the last two years and counting does not stop people continually voting for FF then nothing will.