The senate

Mr Tim Buktoo

Can someone explain to me why there is a senate. what does it do?
im watching these numpties on rte now just arguing. is that all they do?
do they actually have a say in things!
i hate this country

Lapin

The Senate is of vital importance to this country.
Senators (only a mere 60 of them) hold our TDs to account.

Some of them are democratically elected by university graduates, others are democratically elected by democratically appointed panels of experts.
And 11 of them are democratically appointed by the Taoiseach because they are friends of his. Especially if they write favourable articles about him in the Sunday papers.

And to ensure the stability of our "sovereign" government, they can't be removed from office against their will.
So we're privileged to have them representing us.

They receive a small remuneration for their trouble and modest expenses to travel to work from whatever part of the country the declare their home.

Without them the nation would be in turmoil.

Seth Brundle

Should the mods move Lapin's post to the humour forum?

ISAW

Lapin wrote: »

The Senate is of vital importance to this country.
Senators (only a mere 60 of them) hold our TDs to account.

Actaully they can introduce any legislation except Finance acts.

Some of them are democratically elected by university graduates,

3 from NUI ( UCC,UCD,UCG, Maynooth about 100,000 voters) and 3 from University of dublin-(Trinity college - 50,000 votes ) on about a 30 per cent turnout

others are democratically elected by democratically appointed panels of experts.

THe other 43 are elected through Vocational Panels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_Panels


are nominated by two panels - Oireachtas members (O)
and Nominating bodies (N)
I think 4 Oireachtas members are required

Other wise you get a body to nominate tuo to one of the five sub panels

REMEMBER beloe thise are only to get nominated the voters are 166 incoming TDs 60 outgoing senators and alal the councillors in the country total about 1070 votes

http://electionsireland.org/results/seanad/2007seanad.cfm

Multiplied by 1000 for convienence.

And 11 of them are democratically appointed by the Taoiseach because they are friends of his. Especially if they write favourable articles about him in the Sunday papers.

But this might stop if FG and Lab are capable of winning two seats per panel and /or the "Independent " Senators like Bacik in Trinity actaully go under the Lab or FG whip then you could have a total of 30 FG Lab Senators ( dont forget most votes are the last local elections). so even if they didnt get into goivernment you migh have a hung Seanad. In which case FF will have to appoint hard line FF people.

However , if they do get into government the liklihood of FG or Labour appointing pals is very high as even without the 11 nominees they would be close to a majority.

And to ensure the stability of our "sovereign" government, they can't be removed from office against their will.
So we're privileged to have them representing us.

Actually the only "office" Im aware of in the Seanad is the Chair which CAN be removed by a vote of the Seanad. Just as the Cerann Chomhairle can in the Dáil.

We dont have a constitution which allows for recall elections of individual TDs and Senators.

They receive a small remuneration for their trouble and modest expenses to travel to work from whatever part of the country the declare their home.

Wrong again. But Ill assuming sarcasm here. They get the same pay and conditions as an Assiatant Principle in the Civil service - except APs outnumber them at least ten to one and APs are not in the public eye and dont get fired.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/2010/sancdeductionfinalemer.pdf

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6169&CatID=28&StartDate=1+January+2010&m=

And they get ( on top of Breakfast about 200 a night and 200 a day expenced if abroad.

They start on 62k before expenses and if they last a government get 72k and if they get through another 5 years 74k and another 5- 77k

I think you can get a full pension after 6 years so you wold have to last more thanone election. Otherwise you only get a part payment. And you can keep your old job open and get the pension there too or pocket the difference in the substitutes pay and your while the sub works up your other pension ??- Surely these loop holes need to be closed.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/circular2009/circ282009.pdf

Without them the nation would be in turmoil.

We woulsn't know how to administrate pensions and pay! Incidentally in looking for this stuff I came across this:

http://www.reviewbody.gov.ie/

Look how much University heads got back in 2002 - 100k
Now they are getting over 200k and complaining about the cutbacks that got them this!
And they have free residences some of which would cost 50k a month to rent!

At least the Taoiseach pays for his own house!

PeterIanStaker

The senate is where you go if you're too stupid to get elected under the current gombeen-ah-shur-jasis-his-father-was-a-nice-fella system.

Or, alternatively you can write barely coherent articles in the Sindo in praise of Ahern and he'll reward you by putting you in with other tiresome windbags.

jimmycrackcorm

A prize for the first poster who can actually come up with an actual example of something useful that the Senate did. Delaying bills doesn't count nor does Shane Ross's entertainment value.

amacachi

The only three Senators I've had reason to read about were all appointed shortly after failing to get elected, one from FG, one from Lab and one from the Greens. Nice to see that the sharing of the spoils doesn't have to stay within the governing party.

The senate does serve one useful function with some of the hearings and reports they have. I've read a few lately and they make for more than interesting reading. Of course their findings are generally half-hearted and under-reported in the media so I can see why people would be unaware of this.
EDIT: Can I have my prize please? :P

Unless the Senate was given some teeth I would support its abolition.
I don't see how it's important that they can introduce legislation, it's always going to be down to the government whether it gets through or not.

Wolfe Tone

The Taoiseach should appointed mega experienced clever people to the senate. Then appoint them ministers. Hence qualified people.

Lapin

ISAW wrote: »

........assuming sarcasm here........

Only this bit.......

Lapin wrote: »

The Senate is of vital importance to this country.
Senators (only a mere 60 of them) hold our TDs to account.

Some of them are democratically elected by university graduates, others are democratically elected by democratically appointed panels of experts.
And 11 of them are democratically appointed by the Taoiseach because they are friends of his. Especially if they write favourable articles about him in the Sunday papers.

And to ensure the stability of our "sovereign" government, they can't be removed from office against their will.
So we're privileged to have them representing us.

They receive a small remuneration for their trouble and modest expenses to travel to work from whatever part of the country the declare their home.

Without them the nation would be in turmoil.

ballsymchugh

ISAW wrote: »

At least the Taoiseach pays for his own house!

quality post. but that line was your downfall. Mr Cowen is living in the gate lodge at Farmleigh while he's in Dublin. While most former Taoisigh had Dublin residences, he didn't, so that place was given to him while he's in the job!

ISAW

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

A prize for the first poster who can actually come up with an actual example of something useful that the Senate did. Delaying bills doesn't count nor does Shane Ross's entertainment value.

Senator Yeats proposed putting irish Animals on our coinage. everywhere else in the world they have a head of state or other famous people. We had nature. But the euro came along and dumped that.

ISAW

ballsymchugh wrote: »

quality post. but that line was your downfall. Mr Cowen is living in the gate lodge at Farmleigh

for which he PAYS whenever he uses it!

while he's in Dublin. While most former Taoisigh had Dublin residences, he didn't, so that place was given to him while he's in the job!

Not given to him. He rents it! AFAIK . Im fairly sure i read it in one of the reports at http://www.reviewbody.gov.ie/Publications.aspx

I read through about half of them yesterday but read other stuff too

Here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7052603.ece

Cowen used the Phoenix Park property 86 times last year, the Office of Public Works (OPW) said last week, incurring fees of €4,300.

According to the recommendations of the report university heads if not living on campus should pay 10% i.e. about 20 k a year for a huge top notch house!

Again I forget it think it is in the last subsection of the last section of a report just before the Appendix. that would be report 39. Chapter nine last sub section. Yeah page 28.

Time to start charging them?

ISAW

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The Taoiseach should appointed mega experienced clever people to the senate. Then appoint them ministers. Hence qualified people.

Constitutionally Taoisigh can only appoint TWO such Senators to Cabinet.

ballsymchugh

ISAW wrote: »

Again I forget it think it is in the last subsection of the last section of a report just before the Appendix. that would be report 39. Chapter nine last sub section. Yeah page 28.

Time to start charging them?

ah yeah i read that alright there while waiting for a haircut!

ISAW

ballsymchugh wrote: »

ah yeah i read that alright there while waiting for a haircut!

Great that you have mobile access to the net.
Mind you we are all waiting for a haircut.
Maybe we can use the hair to make a shirt for the budget?

ballsymchugh

ISAW wrote: »

Great that you have mobile access to the net.
Mind you we are all waiting for a haircut.
Maybe we can use the hair to make a shirt for the budget?

you'll be amazed what reading material you'll find in some barbers!!:pac: