21 whats the deal?

fryup

Just saw the movie 21 on RTE2, missed the beginning of it..so could someone please explain the scam they were doing.

Something to do with counting cards? does that sort of thing really go on?

the whole year inn

yea it does,it was based on a book called bringing down the house.

at the start he is in college and is a math whizz and lecture sets up the group.

mikhail

Basically, if you keep track of the cards which have been used (or in practice, some statistic of whether more 'good' or 'bad' cards have been used), you can make a better than random prediction of what's coming up. In the long run, you have a significant statistical edge on the house. It's legal, but get caught doing it in Vegas or Atlanta or wherever, and you'll get chucked out. Get caught again, and you'll be lucky if they just break your legs.

It's explained in far too much detail here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

Miguel_Sanchez

The film is pretty woeful.

The book however is far more enjoyable and detailed and is supposedly based on a true story.

the whole year inn

yea andy block was in the team that did this.I didnt mind the film,its no rounders thats for sure!

opr

I agree with Jeff the book is much better than the film. If you like this sort of thing the book "One of a Kind: The Rise and Fall of Stuey" is a great read. Their is also a documentary of the same name which is pretty good. It chronicles the life of Stuey "The Kid" Ungar regarded as one of the most gifted card players that ever lived.

Opr

c montgomery

Ya the book is excellent, really enjoyable and very well written.

I was surprised at how poor the film was. One of the worst adaptations i have seen.

senordingdong

mikhail wrote: »

Basically, if you keep track of the cards which have been used (or in practice, some statistic of whether more 'good' or 'bad' cards have been used), you can make a better than random prediction of what's coming up. In the long run, you have a significant statistical edge on the house. It's legal, but get caught doing it in Vegas or Atlanta or wherever, and you'll get chucked out. Get caught again, and you'll be lucky if they just break your legs.

It's explained in far too much detail here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

Sometimes I wish I was autistic.

ziedth

mikhail wrote: »

Basically, if you keep track of the cards which have been used (or in practice, some statistic of whether more 'good' or 'bad' cards have been used), you can make a better than random prediction of what's coming up. In the long run, you have a significant statistical edge on the house. It's legal, but get caught doing it in Vegas or Atlanta or wherever, and you'll get chucked out. Get caught again, and you'll be lucky if they just break your legs.

It's explained in far too much detail here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

They really don't break your legs anymore since the mob fmdays. I've been to Vegas twice and got talking to a dealer and if you get caught (which often does happen seemingly) they just ask you to leave and if you cone back they just say " we'd prefer if you played sonewhere elese tonight".

Think about it these casinos make millions a year for the city and they rely 99% on tourism if you heard about a resort that broke some guys legs you wouldn't go near the city let alone the casino.

opr

senordingdong wrote: »

Sometimes I wish I was autistic.

Its a myth that you need to be some kind of savant to count cards. When you get it explained simply keeping the count isn't actually all that hard with lots of practise as its just simple maths. The real beauty was in using the team play so the casino didn't cop they were counting. When the casino introduced more decks and other methods to make counting harder they went on to use even better methods of counting and other stuff like shuffle tracking which is hard

Opr

johnny_ultimate

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

The film is pretty woeful.

The book however is far more enjoyable and detailed and is supposedly based on a true story.

One of those films that proves mediocrity is sometimes worse than out and out awfulness. Bland as hell, which isn't surprising considering the king of bland - Brett Ratner - was a producer.

Won't go into it too much though, as I was eaten alive last time I complained about this movie online :pac:

kilns

One of the worst Movies I have ever seen

and one of the most enjoyable books I have read

Get the book and read it instead!!!!

Mark Hamill

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Won't go into it too much though, as I was eaten alive last time I complained about this movie online :pac:

Anything to do with the casting controversy surrounding the film?

Miguel_Sanchez

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Anything to do with the casting controversy surrounding the film?

It's a bit stupid that they felt they had to change the ethnicity of the main character but even if he had been Asian the movie still would have been terrible.

mikhail

ziedth wrote: »

They really don't break your legs anymore since the mob fmdays. I've been to Vegas twice and got talking to a dealer and if you get caught (which often does happen seemingly) they just ask you to leave and if you cone back they just say " we'd prefer if you played sonewhere elese tonight".

You really think the mob no longer has any connection to Vegas? Or that a dealer would know about that sort of thing and admit it to a stranger? I'm sure things are politer than they were, but I wouldn't like to test it.

jimbling

Movie was utter rubbish. The book is good, and if you want to see where it goes from there read "Breaking Vegas". Takes what these guys were doing to the next level.... amazing stuff.


But yes, it does go on. Not as much any more as the Casinos have come up with ways to make it more difficult.

ziedth

mikhail wrote: »

You really think the mob no longer has any connection to Vegas? Or that a dealer would know about that sort of thing and admit it to a stranger? I'm sure things are politer than they were, but I wouldn't like to test it.

I'm sorry but you have definatley seen to many movies. The Main casions are owned by corporations in fact out of all the casinos on the main strip they are all split between maybe 3 groups( you can look that up) sure in the seedy parts of the city there is surely some sort of organised crime.

Anyway, back to my eariler point the scale and money the casinos take in match some citys and do you really think they would risk all of that to stop card counting?

It would basically only take one guy to sue a casino for it (keeping in mind card counting isn't illegal) to take them for millions being America and ruin a reputation of a huge corporation.

Hank_Jones

Also like to say the book is great.
Ben Mezrich is a really good writer, Ugly Americans is probably one of my favourite books.

fryup

so its all based around blackjack..yes?

someone counts the cards from the beginning of the game and then signals to some whizzkid who takes over from there..is that the senario?