Springbok Pair fail drug tests

Risteard

Link

Springboks Chiliboy Ralepelle and Bjorn Basson are returning home from South Africa’s tour of Britain and Ireland having returned positive samples for a banned stimulant following the test against Ireland on November 6.

November internationals – informed the South African Rugby Union of the positive tests on Sunday evening. As a result the pair are provisionally suspended from all rugby and will return to South Africa on Monday. Basson injured an ankle in Saturday’s win over Wales and was due to return anyway.
The players were randomly drawn for testing by anti-doping officials following the test at the Aviva Stadium. The players have the right to request that their ‘B’ sample be tested.
The pair returned an adverse analytical finding for methylhexaneamine, a “non-specified stimulant” on the prohibited substances list of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). It is scheduled to be re-classified as a “specified stimulant” from 1 January 2011.

thomond2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/9190833.stm

:eek:

Oh dear.

andrewdcs

I'm no expert but I believe that this means Wales will be moved up into the Gold medal position, meaning Ireland will take silver. As ever.


seriously though, sad for the sport. It seems it's being upgraded soon as well and has been on the 'bad things' radar for a while. Interesting to see if then now test all the SA team (as these guys were the randoms, they are hardly on their own supplements list)
worry that this is a 'we didn't know any better' bum-rap. which is harsh on the two players.

jolley123

To be honest I wouldn't take it to seriously. The drug they took is used for clearing out nasal congestion. Obviously these guys had a bit of a cold as a result of the new climate. Went to the chemist and bought something that they didn't know contained an illegal substance.

andrewdcs

jolley123 wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't take it to seriously. The drug they took is used for clearing out nasal congestion. Obviously these guys had a bit of a cold as a result of the new climate. Went to the chemist and bought something that they didn't know contained an illegal substance.

probably true, more fool them if they did tho, pros know not to touch a thing unless its from the team doc. which is why I'd worry that anyone they test who's had a few sniffles would go the same way. crazy really.

I told them mixing cycling and rugby was madness, but they just wouldn't listen!

handsomecake

andrewdcs wrote: »

probably true, more fool them if they did tho, pros know not to touch a thing unless its from the team doc. which is why I'd worry that anyone they test who's had a few sniffles would go the same way. crazy really.

I told them mixing cycling and rugby was madness, but they just wouldn't listen!

was it frankie sheahan who tested positive for something a few years ago from an inhaler or something.its ridiculous really ,dan carter and richie mccaw will get done for using listerine. the two guys got sent home over it.should the whole team be tested though automatically when the random tests show up positive in cases like this though.

irishbucsfan

Am I right in reading that these two were the only 2 tested?

Surely the rest of the team should be tested now.

Teferi

handsomecake wrote: »

should the whole team be tested though automatically when the random tests show up positive in cases like this though.

Was that a question or a statement? If a question then I think the whole team should be tested in fairness. It doesn't matter really, if its only from cough medicine but better safe than sorry really.

csm

Yeah that's how I read it. They were the only 2 tested and both failed. Definitely need to test the rest but not sure anyone wants to hear the results. I would imagine it's a balls-up by the medical/management team rather than anything sinister. You wouldn't know with PdV in charge though...

Trojan

Professional athletes don't just "go to the chemist and pick something up", or they don't if they have any kind of clue and their team doctor is not an idiot

thomond2006

Trojan wrote: »

Professional athletes don't just "go to the chemist and pick something up", or they don't if they have any kind of clue and their team doctor is not an idiot

Eric Miller did it on the Lions Tour in 1997.

Dr. James Robson warned the team afterwards that Miller could have been banned for a year if he had been tested. Whatever medication Miller got contained a banned substance.

So it can happen I suppose. However that was 13 years ago and I can't believe it would happen in this day and age.

PhatPiggins

Basson was injured anyway so it doesn't matter too much

Chilliboy is brutal so again no loss there. Can they call up a replacement for a banned player?

Trojan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Eric Miller did it on the Lions Tour in 1997.

Dr. James Robson warned the team afterwards that Miller could have been banned for a year if he had been tested. Whatever medication Miller got contained a banned substance.

So it can happen I suppose. However that was 13 years ago and I can't believe it would happen in this day and age.

1997. Rugby union was professional for about half an hour* at that stage.

* may contain traces of hyperbole.

John_C

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Am I right in reading that these two were the only 2 tested?

That's the key question.

2 out of 2 is very suspicious.

toomevara

De Villiers is now saying he's 'concerned' his coaching setup has been supplying supplements which are illegal to players (I'm assuming inadvertantly:eek:). Apparently he's going through the whole squad. Pretty unbelievable stuff, and if this does in fact turn out to be the case, unprecedented in international team sport. Quite a novel approach/defence...ummm sorry Guv'nor but my coaching team accidently drufgged the whole squad..!" You couldn't make it up. Surely the final, final nail in devilliers well studded coffin, no??

thomond2006

toomevara wrote: »

De Villiers is now saying he's 'concerned' his coaching setup has been supplying supplements which are illegal to players (I'm assuming inadvertantly:eek:). Apparently he's going through the whole squad. Pretty unbelievable stuff, and if this does in fact turn out to be the case, unprecedented in international team sport. Quite a novel approach/defence...ummm sorry Guv'nor but my coaching team accidently drufgged the whole squad..!" You couldn't make it up. Surely the final, final nail in devilliers well studded coffin, no??

He better not leave his back turned.

What a legend, seriously.

Trojan

Yep, looks like he's prep'ing media in case of 100% positives across the squad. Even Vodafone don't have coverage that good.

tolosenc

toomevara wrote: »

De Villiers is now saying he's 'concerned' his coaching setup has been supplying supplements which are illegal to players (I'm assuming inadvertantly:eek:). Apparently he's going through the whole squad. Pretty unbelievable stuff, and if this does in fact turn out to be the case, unprecedented in international team sport. Quite a novel approach/defence...ummm sorry Guv'nor but my coaching team accidently drufgged the whole squad..!" You couldn't make it up. Surely the final, final nail in devilliers well studded coffin, no??

No, surely it's just part of the game. A though, man's game. There's nothing in it.

andrewdcs

I don't know. I mean, I'm no athelete (christ knows I'm no athelete) but a lemsip max flu (the BEST!) before a cycle into work on a winters morning does me a major trick. paracetamol, caffeine, pseudo ephedrine, and whatever other muck is in it.


*sigh* at De Villiers, maybe this will be the last straw for him. In which case I'm off to back SA for the WC.

sad really tho.


Perhaps the SA docs cooked it up on the team bus:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/opinion/16bovett.html?ref=opinion

PhatPiggins

Trojan wrote: »

Yep, looks like he's prep'ing media in case of 100% positives across the squad. Even Vodafone don't have coverage that good.

Is there a provision for bans for performance disenhancing drugs?

At least PDivi has a new excuse for his results.

irishbucsfan

If it is true that the SA doctors administered the drug to the entire squad, then I would hope that no bans for the players come out of it. The players have to have 100% trust in the doctors, surely disciplining them is unnecessary. Banning the doctors would be enough

SomeFool

andrewdcs wrote: »

I don't know. I mean, I'm no athelete (christ knows I'm no athelete) but a lemsip max flu (the BEST!) before a cycle into work on a winters morning does me a major trick. paracetamol, caffeine, pseudo ephedrine, and whatever other muck is in it.

Lemsip is not banned in the Rebuplic of Ireland but is in UK cause it contains phenylephrine.
Thats just one example, lots of products that appear to be what you may be used to can contain different ingredients abroad.
I'd be curious to know the actual product used.

Almaviva

Will we be awarded the game now ?
Yay!!!! Ireland beat South Africa for fourth time in a row!

RMD

jolley123 wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't take it to seriously. The drug they took is used for clearing out nasal congestion. Obviously these guys had a bit of a cold as a result of the new climate. Went to the chemist and bought something that they didn't know contained an illegal substance.

Well that could be true, but the more likely solution is that they consumed it through a Pre-Workout supplement. Basically they're just an extremely powerful energy drink with Nitric Oxide to increase vascularity. Methylhexaneamine has similar effects to adrenaline and gives a pretty good energy boost, but other than that it doesn't do anything amazing. I've taken it myself before, it's not some super stimulant that has you running around the pitch for the entire game liked mad, you'll notice a energy buzz similar to 3-4 cups of coffee and that's about it.

thomond2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/9282859.stm

Chiliboy Ralepelle and Bjorn Basson face possible bans after the 'B' samples confirmed their positive drugs tests on South Africa's European tour.

The Springbok pair tested positive for the banned substance methylhexaneamine following the 23-21 win over Ireland.

They will now face an anti-doping tribunal set up by the South African Rugby Union (Saru).

"Investigations remain ongoing and a date for the hearing will be announced in the new year," said Saru.

Ralepelle and Basson face penalties ranging from a warning to a two-year ban.

Both players have protested their innocence, insisting they are "shocked and disappointed" by the positive results.

South Africa have said they fear the positive tests were caused by a nutritional supplement used by the entire team on tour.

The world champions have cut back the number of supplements they take and their usage is set to come under review during Saru's investigation into the matter.

Ralepelle, a hooker, and winger Basson were provisionally suspended and sent home from the Springboks' tour after testing positive.

Saru has confirmed that neither player will appeal against the testing procedure after receiving notification that the 'B' samples matched the original findings.

Methylhexaneamine is scheduled to be reclassified as a "specified
stimulant" from 1 January 2011, which means it will join the list of drugs that are more susceptible to being taken by mistake.

It means sportsmen could face less severe punishment if they could prove they had not taken the drug in order to improve performance.

brianthebard

andrewdcs wrote: »

seriously though, sad for the sport. It seems it's being upgraded soon as well and has been on the 'bad things' radar for a while. Interesting to see if then now test all the SA team (as these guys were the randoms, they are hardly on their own supplements list)
worry that this is a 'we didn't know any better' bum-rap. which is harsh on the two players.

No I think its being downgraded as something that can be taken by mistake, plus it provides feck all performance enhancing benefits, but better to play with the flu than take a lemsip.

thomond2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/9282859.stm

Both players cleared to play.

padser

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/9282859.stm

Both players cleared to play.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/0128/1224288480287.html

This is fricken unbelievable.

SA rock up to the hearing and go, Yeah they did take drugs, in fact we gave them the drugs, and not just them, all the rest of the players too, but those two were just the unlucky ones to be tested.

And the outcome is that the rules are changed so that if it can be established how the substance entered the body, (eh cos they drank / injected / swallowed it - does it really matter?) then it's all cool.....

Also this rule change came 2 months after the test (so not sure how it effects what happened in December.



We talk sometimes about the All Blacks getting away with stuff, but this is insane. SA have just admitted to drugging all their players and rather than receive a sanction they get the rules changed to make it OK!!!!!!

:eek:

CatFromHue

australia did it with ben tune a few years ago too

thomond2006

padser wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/0128/1224288480287.html

This is fricken unbelievable.

SA rock up to the hearing and go, Yeah they did take drugs, in fact we gave them the drugs, and not just them, all the rest of the players too, but those two were just the unlucky ones to be tested.

And the outcome is that the rules are changed so that if it can be established how the substance entered the body, (eh cos they drank / injected / swallowed it - does it really matter?) then it's all cool.....

Also this rule change came 2 months after the test (so not sure how it effects what happened in December.



We talk sometimes about the All Blacks getting away with stuff, but this is insane. SA have just admitted to drugging all their players and rather than receive a sanction they get the rules changed to make it OK!!!!!!

:eek:

Fair points but you can't punish the players themselves for that then surely?

SomeFool

I'd still like to know what the actual product was. Anybody hazard a guess?

Risteard

I remember reading at the time that the substance was due to be taken off the banned list around this time anyway, before the tests had been made.

sock puppet

What would happen if someone were found to be abusing steroids? Would titles etc be stripped or would they leave it?

d-gal

padser wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/0128/1224288480287.html

This is fricken unbelievable.

SA rock up to the hearing and go, Yeah they did take drugs, in fact we gave them the drugs, and not just them, all the rest of the players too, but those two were just the unlucky ones to be tested.

And the outcome is that the rules are changed so that if it can be established how the substance entered the body, (eh cos they drank / injected / swallowed it - does it really matter?) then it's all cool.....

Also this rule change came 2 months after the test (so not sure how it effects what happened in December.

We talk sometimes about the All Blacks getting away with stuff, but this is insane. SA have just admitted to drugging all their players and rather than receive a sanction they get the rules changed to make it OK!!!!!!

:eek:

You are going a bit overboard, it was most likely from a pre-workout supplement that the whole team were on. The add ons to banned drugs is crazy at times and it is usually down to the S&C coach (nutritionist in some cases) to make sure that the smallest ingredient it is not on the banned list (it should be the team doc but it never is). It should be up to the sponsor who provides the products (eg Optimum Nutrition for Leinster) to make sure that these ingredients are never on the banned list.
At the end of it the banned substance methylhexaneamine is going to make fack all sweet difference, its not like they were given Growth Hormone or an Anabolic Steroid.
It is however stupid the rules were changed, the doping board are probably just ashamed of how stupid it is to ban the substance


It was manufactured in the UK and was tested at SARU’s request by one of only two laboratories in the world equipped to perform the necessary protocols in order to ensure that it complied with the requirements of the World Anti-Doping Authority (WADA).

That is a ridiculous statement by SARU as they would be able to sue the supplement company if it contained MHA. They would have to list it as an ingredient and worse case just ask the company if it contained any of the banned substance

SomeFool

SomeFool wrote: »

Lemsip is not banned in the Rebuplic of Ireland but is in UK cause it contains phenylephrine (different ingredients, similar package).
Thats just one example, lots of products that appear to be what you may be used to can contain different ingredients abroad.

d-gal wrote: »

It was manufactured in the UK and was tested at SARU’s request by one of only two laboratories in the world equipped to perform the necessary protocols in order to ensure that it complied with the requirements of the World Anti-Doping Authority (WADA).

That is a ridiculous statement by SARU as they would be able to sue the supplement company if it contained MHA. They would have to list it as an ingredient and worse case just ask the company if it contained any of the banned substance

If the MHA was declared on the package then I think they can't sue, could easily be something like my above quote, where the product they use at home has different ingredients here.

Trojan

It should be up to the manufacturer to ensure they clearly state what is in every product they make, and that the manufacturing/packaging/delivery process is clean. But I don't put this one on them.

It should be up to the team management to ensure they don't supply players with banned substances. In the SARU case, the management are to blame for not sufficiently investigating.

It should be up to the player to ensure they know what they're taking. Where they are given supplements by management, they should question what it is and what it contains. Where they decide on their own supplements, they are absolutely responsible.

RMD

d-gal wrote: »

At the end of it the banned substance methylhexaneamine is going to make fack all sweet difference, its not like they were given Growth Hormone or an Anabolic Steroid.
It is however stupid the rules were changed, the doping board are probably just ashamed of how stupid it is to ban the substance

That is a ridiculous statement by SARU as they would be able to sue the supplement company if it contained MHA. They would have to list it as an ingredient and worse case just ask the company if it contained any of the banned substance

Ye IMO it's stupid having MHA as a banned substance, it's basically the same as caffeine but slightly more potent. It in no way aids muscle growth or development.

Ye don't know what they were doing saying that. No supps company in their right mind would put a banned substance into their products as people who use it for competitive sports will stop using it as soon as they hear it's a fail on drug tests. It more than likely came from an American company, loads of PWOs come with in it, the most commonly used one if Jack3d I think.