Right of way on roundabout in Dundrum

Thinspired

This has been bugging me for ages and having narrowly avoided a collision yesterday I just had to see what people think.

Coming from Dundrum SC down Ballinteer Road towards the M50 there is a roundabout outside the shopping centre which is straightforward.

Roundabout 2 (at Wyckham Way) is also grand (except everyone ignores the fact that the left lane is for left turn only).

But Roundabout 3 (Ballinteer Avenue is off to the right of it) has two lanes approaching it, both of which have straight ahead arrows. However, the straight-ahead exit is only ONE lane - so there are two cars heading around the roundabout and then trying to squash into one lane.

I've seen three crashes here so far and I'm terrified of being next. Which lane should I be in? Who has right of way? If there was a crash, who is in the wrong or is it 50/50? It's the most dangerous layout for a roundabout I've ever seen!

Would appreciate your views on this if you're familiar with the road or road traffic laws. Cheers.

kaiser sauze

Left lane is the prescribed lane for straight ahead, the problem is that 99% of Irish drivers are ignorant of this and you also have an issue with bizarre road markings.

Your best option here is to raise these markings with the relevant authority/NRA.

Jimbob1977

I sympathise with you! I have the same problem every time I'm driving towards the M50. The approach roads to any motorway should not become this narrow and ambiguous.

I think the best option is to move into the left-hand lane just after the bus lane ends. You then have the "racing line" in terms of the rules of the road etiquette. While the road markings indicate that both lanes have permission to drive straight ahead, I think the Gardai would look more favourably on you. The other guy would appear to cut you up and swerve into your path.

ICE HOUSE

Its straightforward really except the majority of irish drivers are just ignorant or havent a clue. I have the same problem any time Im comming from the opposite side of this roundabout. If your going left or straight on then stay in the left lane and if your going around the roundabout get in the right hand side lane unless the road is otherwise marked as I think it is at that wyckham roundabout that you mention. Quite simple really.

Victor

Ideally, people would merge in turn, but I think the big problem is the poor layout and inconsistency from one junction to the next.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=Unknown+road&hl=en&geocode=FYIQLQMdYMmg_w%3BFfjcLAMdNL2g_w&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=53.286897,-6.242702&sspn=0.005529,0.013797&ie=UTF8&ll=53.278866,-6.244934&spn=0.002502,0.013797&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.278902,-6.244916&panoid=nH2fHlmyvx3GTbiV92F8Ig&cbp=12,198.91,,0,12.94

Thinspired

I usually do scoot into the left lane as soon as the bus lane ends but often that's not possible as a lot of traffic stays in the bus lane permanently after passing straight through the Wyckham Way roundabout in the left turn only lane (where are the Gardai here, eh?)

If I'm in the left lane I find that when it comes to exiting the roundabout, the person in the right lane tries to cut across me. From a legal point of view they aren't in the wrong as the right hand lane is clearly marked with a straight ahead arrow as well as a right arrow. Cue much blaring of horns and flashing of lights. I suffer from terrible road rage.

I presume whoever is slightly ahead has right of way, but what happens when you're both going through at the same time? Perhaps I'll give Ray D'Arcy's show a ring:)

kaiser sauze

Thinspired wrote: »

I usually do scoot into the left lane as soon as the bus lane ends but often that's not possible as a lot of traffic stays in the bus lane permanently after passing straight through the Wyckham Way roundabout in the left turn only lane (where are the Gardai here, eh?)

If I'm in the left lane I find that when it comes to exiting the roundabout, the person in the right lane tries to cut across me. From a legal point of view they aren't in the wrong as the right hand lane is clearly marked with a straight ahead arrow as well as a right arrow. Cue much blaring of horns and flashing of lights. I suffer from terrible road rage.

I presume whoever is slightly ahead has right of way, but what happens when you're both going through at the same time? Perhaps I'll give Ray D'Arcy's show a ring:)

None of which anyone here has disputed, we know where you stand legally, we know what is prescribed.

The anomaly is the markings and noone here can advise you a scenario that protects you from having a claim lodged against you in the event of a collision.

Guy:Incognito

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I think the best option is to move into the left-hand lane just after the bus lane ends. .

The bus lane is not in operation so the traffic should all be in it already.

Thinspired wrote: »

I usually do scoot into the left lane as soon as the bus lane ends but often that's not possible as a lot of traffic stays in the bus lane permanently after passing straight through the Wyckham Way roundabout in the left turn only lane (where are the Gardai here, eh?)

Apart from going straight in the left turn lane these people are correct. As above, the bus lane is not in operation so thats the lane you should be driving in.

star-pants

I go into the left lane to go straight ahead, I've had people beep at me or nearly try to crash into you from the right lane but I'm always fairly attentive at that roundabout because I know well what it's like.

Cookie_Monster

what SteKelly said

Drummerboy08

That roundabout is a complete nightmare.

The biggest problem with it, is that people who use the right lane to go straight on usually stick their blinders on and become completely oblivious to those who are using the left (correct in my book) lane.

I've had a few instances there of being very close to being involved in an accident, and when I beep my horn or flash my headlights at the clown who cuts me up they just look at me as if I have ten heads! I've seen guys get out of their car after people who do it here too (those pedestrian crossing lights directly after it will become a boxing ring very soon)

Damien360

Am I right in saying that is the one with the bus lane that disappears just before it and everyone merges too early for a very tight roundabout ? I have a few very close ones there. Out of shopping centre away from dundrum heading for m50. Think a college is right on the roundabout also .

meemeep

These bus lanes that aren't in use are a disaster! I drove in one recently - small sign at the start - and the amount of horn blowing from drivers in the outside lane was unreal! I was on that dundrum/ballinteer road the other day and I couldn't see any sign to say bus lane in use or not - where is it? The merging of lanes is bonkers to say the least.

paddydriver

"Bus lane not in use" is on a little orange sign just as you exit the Dundrum SC roundabout - practically pointing into path at this stage so not very obvious. The bus lane is broken further up at the next roundabout, and then restarts, but there are no signs so say otherwise so the little orange sign further back would still be in effect:D

OP says about the merge going towards M50 - coming down from M50 into same roundabout is worse sometimes cause everyone going straight (2nd exit) goes into right lane and those going left (1st exit), to Ballinteer, use left lane whereas those going straight should really be staying in left lane and indicating after first exit Those that "follow the rules" and stay in left lane going straight near get run off the road!

Damien360

Stick this in to google earth and look at street view. 53.278343,-6.244842

The picture does not quite do it justice but is the Irish classic of 2 lanes in, one lane out and no good markings. The picture is old as the bus lane is now right before the roundabout coming from the shopping centre (google picture is driving on other side of the road). It looks big enough there but it is tight. You get one long cue of cars, some going to 3 o'clock exit (no bother), but the right lane also gets those who could not or could'nt care to get in the left lane to go straight.

IngazZagni

I've had issues with this road too. It seems to me that the marking are set up assuming the bus lanes are in operation and indeed they would be correct non-standard markings if the bus lanes where in use. However as they're not it confuses things. If you look at the Ballinteer Road/whyckham way roundabout, it's an oval shape, not circular and is specifically designed to make cars in the left lane turn left only and the right lane for straight on and right.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=Unknown+road&hl=en&geocode=FYIQLQMdYMmg_w%3BFfjcLAMdNL2g_w&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=53.286897,-6.242702&sspn=0.005529,0.013797&ie=UTF8&ll=53.281729,-6.243941&spn=0.00084,0.001725&t=h&z=19

This roundabout however is strange. Even in the aerial photo you can see cars in the right hand lane going straight . There are no markings for this roundabout so technically I feel this is incorrect. It's pretty much become the norm now however but of course you still have many using the left lane including myself the odd time causing a few problems even though I feel it's the correct thing to do.

Del2005

Thinspired wrote: »

If I'm in the left lane I find that when it comes to exiting the roundabout, the person in the right lane tries to cut across me. From a legal point of view they aren't in the wrong as the right hand lane is clearly marked with a straight ahead arrow as well as a right arrow. Cue much blaring of horns and flashing of lights. I suffer from terrible road rage.

Has that been added recently? I've driven that road numerous times and I'm always worried I'll get penalty points for going right off that roundabout as there was never a right turn arrow, only 2 straight ahead ones.

ICE HOUSE

:mad::mad::mad: Bus lane in use or not, just get in the left feckin (proper) lane if your going straight :mad::mad::mad: How hard is it people!!!
If all these cretins just followed this simple rule there would be no problems.

Damien360

ICE HOUSE wrote: »

:mad::mad::mad: Bus lane in use or not, just get in the left feckin (proper) lane if your going straight :mad::mad::mad: How hard is it people!!!
If all these cretins just followed this simple rule there would be no problems.

You get points for driving in the bus lane. The general idea is to avoid the points, hence people sticking to the rules. The problem would not arise if everyone, including yourself, waited until the bus lane actually ended before joining the left lane. That would be one long que that would split at the very end making it easy for all.

Chiparus

ICE HOUSE wrote: »

:mad::mad::mad: Bus lane in use or not, just get in the left feckin (proper) lane if your going straight :mad::mad::mad: How hard is it people!!!
If all these cretins just followed this simple rule there would be no problems.

Unless signposted ?

http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=52.246791,-7.077824&spn=0.002168,0.005445&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.246779,-7.077667&panoid=sPeJU5rnTLAbEdRCGE7Qcg&cbp=12,252.05,,0,2.41

Have to say the roundabout in Dundrum indicating 2 lanes to go straight with one lane to exit the roundabout is dangerous.

Del2005

Chiparus wrote: »

Have to say the roundabout in Dundrum indicating 2 lanes to go straight with one lane to exit the roundabout is dangerous.

I think they forgot their right turn paint marker that day so just they used what they had in the van. There's no arrow for turning right so technically you can't go down Ballinteer Ave from Ballinteer Road.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53.278699,-6.244994&num=1&t=h&ie=UTF8&ll=53.278683,-6.244971&spn=0.000573,0.001206&z=20

ICE HOUSE

Damien360 wrote: »

You get points for driving in the bus lane. The general idea is to avoid the points, hence people sticking to the rules. The problem would not arise if everyone, including yourself, waited until the bus lane actually ended before joining the left lane. That would be one long que that would split at the very end making it easy for all.

Thats what I mean

Thinspired

To all those who say 'if only people knew how to use roundabouts this wouldn't be a problem' - well even the most educated roundabout user, if they see an arrow in the right hand lane that tells them they can go straignt on then they will!

If it was a roundabout I was unfamiliar with (as many shopper visitors to Dundrum are) and I saw that arrow I would presume that there were two exit lanes at the straight ahead exit, and off I'd drive in the right hand lane. So it's not the fault of the driver who goes into the right-hand lane, they're following the road markings.

I think an email to the local council tomorrow is in order. I'll post the reply whenever I hear back from them. So keep an eye out in about eight months' time...

kaiser sauze

Thinspired wrote: »

To all those who say 'if only people knew how to use roundabouts this wouldn't be a problem' - well even the most educated roundabout user, if they see an arrow in the right hand lane that tells them they can go straignt on then they will!

If it was a roundabout I was unfamiliar with (as many shopper visitors to Dundrum are) and I saw that arrow I would presume that there were two exit lanes at the straight ahead exit, and off I'd drive in the right hand lane. So it's not the fault of the driver who goes into the right-hand lane, they're following the road markings.

I think an email to the local council tomorrow is in order. I'll post the reply whenever I hear back from them. So keep an eye out in about eight months' time...

Yes, you are correct.

This issue boils down to bad road signage; once that is addressed we only have to deal with the 99% who are both incapable and unwilling to use a roundabout correctly.

When the council gets your mail, they might stick it on the Xmas "list-of-jobs-to-do-to-use-up-the-budget-so-we-get-at-least-the-same-funding-next-year".