Rail Services offered from Cork

Teddy455

I was wondering what services are there from Cork Kent Station. It says on http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/printed_timetables.asp there is services to Dublin, Tralee, and Limerick is this true?

foggy_lad

Teddy455 wrote: »

I was wondering what services are there from Cork Kent Station. It says on http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/printed_timetables.asp there is services to Dublin, Tralee, and Limerick is this true?

services to dublin are direct albeit quite slow but to tralee and limerick you must change at mallow and limerick junction respectively. there is also local services to mallow and cobh and midleton

http://irishrail.ie/home/


edit: there are some direct services from cork to tralee early in the morning the forst two trains each direction go direct and the last train in the evening also goes direct

CIE

services to dublin are direct albeit quite slow

"Quite slow" is relative. What's your reference point?

Assuming on-time performance, express trains (i.e. that skip the stations between Heuston and Thurles) have an average speed of about 60-62 mph; there is one southbound express train that has an average speed of 68 mph. Not world class (i.e. at speeds of 125 mph or more; top speed is 100 mph), but not too pokey either. The Dublin-Cork route is well overdue for tilting trains and faster speeds, never mind electrification, which was proposed over four decades ago.

foggy_lad

CIE wrote: »

"Quite slow" is relative. What's your reference point?

Assuming on-time performance, express trains (i.e. that skip the stations between Heuston and Thurles) have an average speed of about 60-62 mph; there is one southbound express train that has an average speed of 68 mph. Not world class (i.e. at speeds of 125 mph or more; top speed is 100 mph), but not too pokey either. The Dublin-Cork route is well overdue for tilting trains and faster speeds, never mind electrification, which was proposed over four decades ago.

slow for the dublin to cork distance is anything under a 100mph average

CIE

foggy_lad wrote: »

slow for the dublin to cork distance is anything under a 100mph average

When did the Dublin-Cork line ever have a 100-mph average speed? You can't have a 100-mph average speed with a 100-mph top speed, unless you go from 0 to 100 mph in zero seconds. And the new M8 is not an autobahn where you can drive any speed you wish.

Chris_5339762

1h50m Dunkettle to Newlands on the M8/7. Even with delays getting out of Cork and into Dublin, it utterly destroys the train.

penexpers

There are 3 direct return Cork-Tralee services a day.

CIE

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

1h50m Dunkettle to Newlands on the M8/7. Even with delays getting out of Cork and into Dublin, it utterly destroys the train.

That's an average speed of 82 mph. Speeding. Lawless behaviour.

foggy_lad

CIE wrote: »

When did the Dublin-Cork line ever have a 100-mph average speed? You can't have a 100-mph average speed with a 100-mph top speed, unless you go from 0 to 100 mph in zero seconds. And the new M8 is not an autobahn where you can drive any speed you wish.

why doesn't this "flagship" line have trains on it capable of 100+mph?

why is rail travel in ireland limited to 100mph maximum speed???

because irish rail have failed to bring the line up to proper speed failed to provide proper rolling stock and failed to provide future proof locomotives capable of more than 100mph.

Jehuty42

And that's all IE's fault solely, couldn't be anything to do with funding being made available from DoT or other political interference :rolleyes:

Note: I am not absolving IE of responsibility, I am no supporter of them by any means, but it is overly simplistic to blame them solely for all the problems in the rail network.

foggy_lad

Jehuty42 wrote: »

And that's all IE's fault solely, couldn't be anything to do with funding being made available from DoT or other political interference :rolleyes:

Note: I am not absolving IE of responsibility, I am no supporter of them by any means, but it is overly simplistic to blame them solely for all the problems in the rail network.

if they operated efficiently they would be able to do a lot more with what they are given! maybe they can flog some sleepers if they are not already all sold by staff? they have been getting more than too much for several years and have squandered much of the money they were given on wasteful projects like the western rail fiasco and major works on heuston station that did not include new toilet facilities, they are now wasting even more on electrical work on several rundown stations which they should have torn down and rebuilt because like the company these buildings are rotten to the core

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

why doesn't this "flagship" line have trains on it capable of 100+mph?

why is rail travel in ireland limited to 100mph maximum speed???

The overall infrastructure of the line (such as curves, bridges and proximity of stations) combined with the low passenger density in Ireland makes the returns of making the line capable of speeds greater than 100MPH uneconomic at best. We don't have the masses of people in our cities and towns to move from A to B compared to other countries like the UK or Germany. Faster trains require less stops and more acceleration/braking distances to work out at speed; this means less passenger pick up points en route and less network capacity for trains.

foggy_lad wrote: »

because irish rail have failed to bring the line up to proper speed failed to provide proper rolling stock and failed to provide future proof locomotives capable of more than 100mph.

Mark 3, De Dietrich and Mark 4 are all capable of speeds greater than 100MPH but as above, the gains of faster locomotives are nigh without infrastructural investment which is unlikely to bear fruits

Jehuty42

I sincerely doubt that IE wanted anything to do with the WRC. Political interference and pressure is what forced them to build it, it's not entirely their fault.

Teddy455

Originally Posted by foggy_lad
why doesn't this "flagship" line have trains on it capable of 100+mph?

why is rail travel in ireland limited to 100mph maximum speed???

The mark 4 is capable of of 125mph.

New tracks are being laided so the mark 4 can travel at 125mph

Chris_5339762

CIE wrote: »

That's an average speed of 82 mph. Speeding. Lawless behaviour.

Fine then, 240km at 120kmh = 2 hours. Add another 10 minutes for the Naas Road at 100kmh. I didnt actually say I'd done it in 1h50m so DONT accuse me of speeding.

corktina

Teddy455 wrote: »

The mark 4 is capable of of 125mph.

New tracks are being laided so the mark 4 can travel at 125mph

god help us if we have to travel in mk4 at 125mph! What are we going to use to pull (or push) them at that speed?

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

god help us if we have to travel in mk4 at 125mph! What are we going to use to pull (or push) them at that speed?

At a recent IRRS meeting, CMO Phil Verster said that the main issue with the Mark 4 ride lays with per way quality; the current work undergoing on the Cork line should address it.

Lapin

CIE wrote: »

"Quite slow" is relative. What's your reference point?

How about Paris - Lyon ?

BenShermin

MK3s and an 071 could do Cork to Heuston in 2hrs 25mins in the 1990s. The fastest journey nowadays is 2hrs 30mins, and that's supposed to be an improvement:rolleyes:!

We don't need TGVs or ICEs on Irish Rail, we need a totally new leadership at IÉ.

Carawaystick

CIE wrote: »

"Quite slow" is relative. What's your reference point?

It's slow relative to driving a car.

Driving takes less time, and there's the average half hour wait til the train leaves on top of the train journey time.

Last time I got the train in January, it took just under 3 hours from Kent to Heuston.

CIE

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's slow relative to driving a car.

Driving takes less time, and there's the average half hour wait til the train leaves on top of the train journey time.

Last time I got the train in January, it took just under 3 hours from Kent to Heuston.

Government policy, like I said. Average speeds of under 60 mph on the rails aren't even the acme of mid-20th-century passenger railway technology, never mind that of the second decade of the 21st. And how many stops on your train? because some of those trains make all stops between Newbridge and Cork.

Average speeds of above 65-68 mph on the motorways are not legal in Ireland. (Basing that on the 74-mph motorway speed limit, plus necessary travel on local roads at origin and destination.) The express trains between Dublin and Cork can match that kind of average speed; however, we all seem to acknowledge here that IE has been hindered in terms of technology.

corktina wrote: »

god help us if we have to travel in mk4 at 125mph!

Good point. Miss the Mark 3s yet? They were designed for 125-mph operation. Why didn't CIE buy something similar to the Class 43 power cars they were meant to be mated with, instead of JT22CWs and JT42HCWs, which are meant to be heavy freight engines? (How about the Class 67 Alstom/GMD? The Dublin-Cork line should handle its 22 tonnes/axle.)

Losty Dublin

BenShermin wrote: »

MK3s and an 071 could do Cork to Heuston in 2hrs 25mins in the 1990s. The fastest journey nowadays is 2hrs 30mins, and that's supposed to be an improvement:rolleyes:!

We don't need TGVs or ICEs on Irish Rail, we need a totally new leadership at IÉ.

To be fair here, that was just the one train a week that had such a timing and it struggled to keep to it on a regular basis. The regular services had pretty similar services to today without KRP recovery times and allowances restrictions around Limerick Junction, Portarlington and Cherryville Junction. As it stands there is 20 minutes allowed into workings which brings us to 150 minutes.

As an aside, an 071 had no speed limiter fitted

Losty Dublin

Carawaystick wrote: »

Last time I got the train in January, it took just under 3 hours from Kent to Heuston.

But the real question is, how long would it take to drive from Kent Station to Heuston:)

L1011

Losty Dublin wrote: »

But the real question is, how long would it take to drive from Kent Station to Heuston:)

Seeing as both are towards the entrance/exit points of their city for such a journey; not much longer than the Newlands/Dunkettle time I'd expect.

Losty Dublin

MYOB wrote: »

Seeing as both are towards the entrance/exit points of their city for such a journey; not much longer than the Newlands/Dunkettle time I'd expect.

In other words, you don't really know

Heuston to Newlands Cross is at least 15 minutes with no traffic in the way; daytime it's anything from 20 to over an hour. I can't speak of Dunkettle accurately but the last time I was in Cork it took about 20 minutes in the daytime; I understand it's a nightmare trip at rush hour.

corktina

No the real question is how long would it take to drive from my house to where I wanted to go in Dublin....(answer is under 3 hours....same journey by train? over 4 hours at three times the cost (and thats if Im on my own!)

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

No the real question is how long would it take to drive from my house to where I wanted to go in Dublin....(answer is under 3 hours....same journey by train? over 4 hours at three times the cost (and thats if Im on my own!)

my house to city centre by bus takes 105minutes and by train it takes an average 115minutes, this storey is repeated throughout the country and does not include the massive difference in cost/fares between bus and rail-bus/luas or the hassle of dragging luggage or children from the train to a bus or luas when the bus would do the whole journey without any interruption!

busses are also far more reliable and more punctual than the trains operated by irish rail

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

But the real question is, how long would it take to drive from Kent Station to Heuston:)

google maps says 2hours 24minutes so a lot faster than the train and you also have the ability to take diversions around the many blockages that appear on the dublin-cork line! the train seems to regularly slow down and stop for no apparent reason in the middle of nowhere then wait several minutes before continuing.

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

No the real question is how long would it take to drive from my house to where I wanted to go in Dublin....(answer is under 3 hours....same journey by train? over 4 hours at three times the cost (and thats if Im on my own!)

Cork to Dublin on train doesn't make sense if you are in Youghal or Fermoy; I'm asking you can you get from city centre to city centre in the same time all the time, which is were a lot of trips travel to and from.

Train tickets cost from €22 to €74; how does your car trip costs a third of these?

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

google maps says 2hours 24minutes so a lot faster than the train

2 hours 33 minutes according to Google on iPhone and Viamichellin's shortest route. That's excluding any traffic delays at either end.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Cork to Dublin on train doesn't make sense if you are in Youghal or Fermoy; I'm asking you can you get from city centre to city centre in the same time all the time, which is were a lot of trips travel to and from.

Train tickets cost from €22 to €74; how does your car trip costs a third of these?

most people travel to heuston station but then get a bus luas or another train or dart to their destination! but cork city centre to dublin city centre takes even longer on the train as there is travel times to kent station then more time from inchicore/heuston station into dublin city!

StereoLove

For the Limerick one, you have to get off at Limerick Junction and then get a commuter train to Limerick

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

most people travel to heuston station but then get a bus luas or another train or dart to their destination! but cork city centre to dublin city centre takes even longer on the train as there is travel times to kent station then more time from inchicore/heuston station into dublin city!

Can you translate that post, please? Something about travel time and city centres

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Can you translate that post, please? Something about travel time and city centres

you mentioned that most journeys/trips were from city centre to city centre

from city centre to city centre in the same time all the time, which is were a lot of trips travel to and from.

but i disagree as most people going to dublin from cork are going somewhere outside the city centre but the train does not leave them into the city centre anyway so most people have to get a bus or luas into the city centre then get another bus dart or luas home/to their destination!

i thought it was easy to follow but i will endeavour to simplify my posts for you in future if you feel you require this

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

you mentioned that most journeys/trips were from city centre to city centre but i disagree as most people going to dublin from cork are going somewhere outside the city centre but the train does not leave them into the city centre anyway so most people have to get a bus or luas into the city centre then get another bus dart or luas home/to their destination!

i thought it was easy to follow but i will endeavour to simplify my posts for you in future if you feel you require this

You could try and write your posts a little more coherently as they are very hard to follow at times; I'd doubt if I am the only one who finds this. (Sorry for backseat modding).

Most trips to and from train stations will go beyond stations, that much is true as everybody does not live in the city centre; not every trip doubles back on each other. By all means somebody in Buttevant or Blarney in Cork going to Rathcoole or Lucan will lose time going via train but this isn't every or most journeys made; most journeys tend to start at or cross the city centres at some point, at least for those with business, work or appointments in the city.

Yes, the car is often handier and less restricted and as fast/maybe a little faster but it does not suit all trips for it's own reason in the same way train/buses don't suit others.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You could try and write your posts a little more coherently as they are very hard to follow at times; I'd doubt if I am the only one who finds this. (Sorry for backseat modding).

Most trips to and from train stations will go beyond stations, that much is true as everybody does not live in the city centre; not every trip doubles back on each other. By all means somebody in Buttevant or Blarney in Cork going to Rathcoole or Lucan will lose time going via train but this isn't every or most journeys made; most journeys tend to start at or cross the city centres at some point, at least for those with business, work or appointments in the city.

Yes, the car is often handier and less restricted and as fast/maybe a little faster but it does not suit all trips for it's own reason in the same way train/buses don't suit others.

my main point in the answer to yours is that the train from cork stops a couple of miles short of dublin city centre leaving passengers no option but to seek further transport from more efficient operators like veolia dublin bus and private taxis and busses as well as having people drive to meet them at the station!

as i said i will try to change my posts to make them easier to understand but i disagree that they are incoherent in this thread.


on another note you seem quite defensive of irish rail, have you got any interest to declare in that regard? http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

Jehuty42

On another note you seem quite committed against Irish Rail, have you got any interest to declare in that regard? http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

my main point in the answer to yours is that the train from cork stops a couple of miles short of dublin city centre leaving passengers no option but to seek further transport from more efficient operators like veolia dublin bus and private taxis and busses as well as having people drive to meet them at the station!

Ryanair leaves me with no option but to make my way to the airport. Stena doesn't either but again we have to get to it. The train goes to where it goes; it's not perfect that it doesn't go any closer to the centre city but it's readily accessible to most of the city via a bus, Luas or taxi.

foggy_lad wrote: »

as i said i will try to change my posts to make them easier to understand but i disagree that they are incoherent in this thread.

Some basic grammar wouldn't go amiss. Full stops, commas, capital letters; that sort of thing. No offence meant but it hinders your posts.

foggy_lad wrote: »

on another note you seem quite defensive of irish rail, have you got any interest to declare in that regard? http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

I don't work for them but I don't see why I can't this or that regardless who who employes me:)

corktina

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Ryanair leaves me with no option but to make my way to the airport. Stena doesn't either but again we have to get to it. The train goes to where it goes; it's not perfect that it doesn't go any closer to the centre city but it's readily accessible to most of the city via a bus, Luas or taxi.

My car goes where I want it to go, is quicker than public transport and costs less.
If I by train, I have to drive to the station, pay for petrol, pay for parking, pay for the train and pay for transport the other end.
My car costs me just petrol and parking the other end (possibly)and a very small amount in tyre wear etc and extra servicing etc..

Victor

Can we put away the boxing gloves?

foggy_lad wrote: »

my main point in the answer to yours is that the train from cork stops a couple of miles short of dublin city centre leaving passengers no option but to seek further transport from more efficient operators like veolia dublin bus and private taxis and busses as well as having people drive to meet them at the station!

as i said i will try to change my posts to make them easier to understand but i disagree that they are incoherent in this thread.

on another note you seem quite defensive of irish rail, have you got any interest to declare in that regard? http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

Reasonable capitalisation and punctuation would be nice. That said, some people do have literacy, dyslexia or other problems. However, improving your capitalisation and punctuation might help those people.

bk

Let me tell you the reality of a Corkonian living in Dublin, who has gotten the train at least once a month for the last 8 years and has many friends who do the same.

All my friends have switched to driving since the motorway opened and all report that their door to door journey is now about one to one and a half hours quicker and significantly cheaper. They live all around different parts of Cork and Dublin.

I'll be switching myself in the next month or two.

Station to station time is irrelevant, as no one lives in a station, people only care about their total journey time and cost. That is what IR have to compete with.

It is more expensive as most peak time journeys are e74 and we are all working, so no cheap fares possible.

And to top it off, the one advantage IR has, the ability for people to work and play on the train, IR even bottle that by having no power at the seats and charging for the wifi, genius.

foggy_lad

My apologies to those offended by my posts. I did not realise my grammer and punctuation had to reach any particular standard for commuting and transport. I do realise it does help others reading some longer posts but I feel losty was complaining about my grammer because what I posted was true of Irish rail.

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

god help us if we have to travel in mk4 at 125mph! What are we going to use to pull (or push) them at that speed?

My understanding is that the CAF DVTs were allegedly convertible to power cars (although you'd still need 8 more to replace the 201s and an okay from RSC to operate top/tail). It would probably be cheaper to just buy 16 powercars by tender rather than tearing apart DVTs with over a decade in service wear and tear.

parsi

I'm of the opinion that poorly written posts tend to get ignored or perhaps lead to readers assuming that the poster is a troll, moron , shill or axe-grinder.

A properly written post, on the other hand, invites further reading and helps form the opinion that the poster genuinely cares about the subject rather than having just a morbid interest.

Naturally that applies to all posts ne they written by wannabe-Boards'-Servants or those who think the Board is populated by the spawn of the Devil.

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

My understanding is that the CAF DVTs were allegedly convertible to power cars (although you'd still need 8 more to replace the 201s and an okay from RSC to operate top/tail). It would probably be cheaper to just buy 16 powercars by tender rather than tearing apart DVTs with over a decade in service wear and tear.

They are reasonably simple to convert with the fitting of an engine, a generator and power motors to the bogies. I'd agree with you; it would probably be cheaper to supply new DVT power units or new locomotives when you take into account time out of service and waits for tenders to be made.

Carawaystick

parsi wrote: »

Naturally that applies to all posts ne they written by wannabe-Boards'-Servants or those who think the Board is populated by the spawn of the Devil.

Huh?


LostyDublin, as Dublin is on the coast, with no catchment to the east worth speaking of, then most journeys to / from Dublin don't involve crossing the city centre.

Also most bus routes in Dublin don't pass Heuston, only one of the tram lines serves it, so the majority of passengers accessing it from places in Dublin would need to make two journeys.

CIE

corktina wrote: »

My car goes where I want it to go, is quicker than public transport and costs less.
If I by train, I have to drive to the station, pay for petrol, pay for parking, pay for the train and pay for transport the other end.
My car costs me just petrol and parking the other end (possibly) and a very small amount in tyre wear etc and extra servicing etc..

Let me guess: you're a wealthy speeder that doesn't worry about the total cost for the upkeep of your car, or cost of your insurance, taxes etc. (you didn't add that before "etc." so now you have us filling in the blanks). Tyres are not a small expense, nor are oil changes, tune-ups, other fluid exchanges (such as brake fluid and coolant), wheel alignments, suspension repair, electronics repair (far more than blown fuse replacement or headlight repair nowadays, with power steering, power brakes, electronic fuel injection), body and windscreen repair (wait until those HGVs start kicking up rocks into your windscreen on the motorway), and (increasingly) traffic fines...and if you ever get into an accident, things only get more frustrating, never mind that the older the car gets, the more frequently things break on it. Cars can get very expensive, and driving will get increasingly stressful. Sorry, but not everyone is as rich as you, and cannot afford changing cars every half-decade or so. I regard driving to a railway station and not burning as much petrol, plus saving the wear and tear on my vehicle thus making it last far longer, as something that is eminently practical. Not being forced to subject myself to "road rage" is an added benefit to my health.

Oh, and if €2.56 per mile is exorbitant (and I'm not disagreeing; it's a high fare especially compared to the web fares), try hiring a cab. Besides, it costs just about as much to fill up one's petrol tank, and nobody would be driving at the optimal cruising speed for best fuel economy on the motorway, if the anecdotes I'm reading on here are accurate; driving in heavy traffic is devastating on fuel economy as well as stressing the engine. But by all means, accept meekly what the government throws at you...

L1011

CIE wrote: »

Tyres are not a small expense, nor are oil changes, tune-ups, other fluid exchanges (such as brake fluid and coolant), wheel alignments, suspension repair, electronics repair (far more than blown fuse replacement or headlight repair nowadays, with power steering, power brakes, electronic fuel injection), body and windscreen repair (wait until those HGVs start kicking up rocks into your windscreen on the motorway)

Do you think we all drive some extremely unreliable sports cars or what? I don't have a Lotus parked outside. Either that, or your idea of driving is somewhere in the early 1980s:

*Set of tyres can be obtained for 200 euro and will last 30,000-50,000km
*Oil change can be done for 60 or less.
*Modern cars don't go for "tune-ups". Is the word you want "servicing"? Which includes an oil change...
*Brake fluid and coolant are long life on modern cars and aren't particularly expensive either
*Wheel alignment is about 30 euro
*Suspension work is something you'd be looking at at maybe 400,000km or higher from mostly motorway driving. Most people would replace a car at this stage
*Most cars used for long distance driving don't have EPAS (hydraulic PAS instead) even then a complete EPAS system replacement costs well under a grand and wouldn't be a standard failure to begin with
*In all my years of driving and knowing others who drive I've never known someone to have an *electrical* failure with their brakes.
*EFI is extremely reliable, again I'm suspecting 1980s knowledge here
*If a HGV kicks rocks up on a motorway, the HGVs insurers will be paying for any damage. Also, when was the last time you saw loose ROCKS on a MOTORWAY? This and the above suggest you think every road in Ireland is a boreen.

garhjw

Irish Rail is a joke of an organisation, which has been destroyed by trade unions. Most 3rd world and developing countries have train networks better than in Ireland. We have, by some distnce, the worst train network in Europe. If I worked for Irish Rail I would be embarrassed to tell people.

corktina

MYOB wrote: »

Do you think we all drive some extremely unreliable sports cars or what? I don't have a Lotus parked outside. Either that, or your idea of driving is somewhere in the early 1980s:

*Set of tyres can be obtained for 200 euro and will last 30,000-50,000km
*Oil change can be done for 60 or less.
*Modern cars don't go for "tune-ups". Is the word you want "servicing"? Which includes an oil change...
*Brake fluid and coolant are long life on modern cars and aren't particularly expensive either
*Wheel alignment is about 30 euro
*Suspension work is something you'd be looking at at maybe 400,000km or higher from mostly motorway driving. Most people would replace a car at this stage
*Most cars used for long distance driving don't have EPAS (hydraulic PAS instead) even then a complete EPAS system replacement costs well under a grand and wouldn't be a standard failure to begin with
*In all my years of driving and knowing others who drive I've never known someone to have an *electrical* failure with their brakes.
*EFI is extremely reliable, again I'm suspecting 1980s knowledge here
*If a HGV kicks rocks up on a motorway, the HGVs insurers will be paying for any damage. Also, when was the last time you saw loose ROCKS on a MOTORWAY? This and the above suggest you think every road in Ireland is a boreen.

took the words out of my mouth..thx for that..

Im not wealthy (im unemployed ) thats why I cant afford the train and so use my car which is largely paid for except for for consumables basically which are cheap. (Its a 2002 Fiesta.I do what work I can to it myself).I don't commute so my journeys are occasional and the extra costs onvolved are tiny,probably less than the Station Car park would cost...

Oh and BTW CIE, you cant take the cost of raod tax or insurance into account...thats already paid.

parsi

Carawaystick wrote: »

Huh?

A prize is on it's way to you for spotting the deliberate error where "n" was typed instead of "b".

You have a choice of - a bottle of Blue Nun (or product of equivalent value), a large bottle of TK, a bumper pack of Marietta or Calvita Triangles.