Sinn Fein Desperation - Adams to run for the Dail - BBC

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The BBC is reporting that Gerry Adams, President of Sinn Fein will run for the Dail in the next general election in the Republic. He'll stand for election in County Louth ( Louth TD, Arthur Morgan announced he will not be contesting the next election).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11751856

What a bizarre SF strategy and extremely risky. Have they no one else? Will Adams resign from his Stormont seat if he gets elected? Is SF completely useless?

Just odd.

Einhard

So Adams will have served as a representative in three seperate parliaments if the people of Louth are stupid enough and this comes to pass? This is a ridiculous idea really. Nothing against SF running a candidate or anything, but to run a candidate who not only lives outside the constituency, but outside the actual jurisdiction is absurd, and an offence to the people he would claim to represent. SF show themselves more and more like FF every day with their power at any cost ideology.

Wolfe Tone

Bloody excellent. I know were my vote is going.


He should take Morgans seat.


An extreme amount of Anti SF bias in the OP, sad really. For shame.

skelliser

At the last election in 2007 Gerry was found out.
He hadnt a clue.
This is a bad move for sinn fein.

They should concentrate on getting more people like Senator Doherty, young and intelligent and not tainted with the past.

hotmail.com

Will he be able to attend the Dail? Will the Louth voters vote for someone that won't actually sit in the Dail, but claims the TD salary and related expenses? Will the Louth voters be that daft?

My name is URL

Aren't there other, already road-tested SF candidates in Louth though? Why should Adams stand in place of someone from the constituency? It seems bizarre to me

Wolfe Tone

hotmail.com wrote: »

Will he be able to attend the Dail? Will the Louth voters vote for someone that won't actually sit in the Dail, but claims the TD salary and related expenses? Will the Louth voters be that daft?

I dare say this will signify him stepping down as President of SF.

I think it is a great move personally if he does so. I would vote for him.

I dislike your insinuation that I would be daft to vote for him.

obliviousgrudge

Surely he'd sit in the Dail?

Also, do Louth usually vote for SF TDs?

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

The BBC is reporting that Gerry Adams, President of Sinn Fein will run for the Dail in the next general election in the Republic. He'll stand for election in County Louth ( Louth TD, Arthur Morgan announced he will not be contesting the next election).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11751856

What a bizarre SF strategy and extremely risky. Have they no one else? Will Adams resign from his Stormont seat if he gets elected? Is SF completely useless?

Just odd.

What a neutral opening post.

I hope you are still wearing your poppy.

hotmail.com

My name is URL wrote: »

Aren't there other, already road-tested SF candidates in Louth though? Pearse McGeough springs to mind. Why should Adams stand in place of someone from the constituency? It seems bizarre to me

Yeah and apparently there's another popular SF councillor in the area. It's an extremely odd decision that serves no purpose. What good will come of Adams getting elected to the Dail (or failing). Gerry Adams must have some big ego to want to do this and deprive a new candidate a possible seat.

Wolfe Tone

Seriously, what is your problem with SF? Someone dig up the statistics about Arthur Morgan.

I would love to see Gerry in the Dail.

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emmetmcl wrote: »

Surely he'd sit in the Dail?

Also, do Louth usually vote for SF TDs?

Well he can't sit in Stormont and the Dail at the same time (in a literal sense). Unless he announces he's not contesting the next Stormont election, due for early next year as well.

Arthur Morgan is a Louth SF TD. He's not going to contest the next election, apparently to go back to his business.

But who knows, perhaps Adams persuaded him to retire so he could have that seat. The timing of Morgan's announcement was certainly odd.

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

Will he be able to attend the Dail? Will the Louth voters vote for someone that won't actually sit in the Dail, but claims the TD salary and related expenses? Will the Louth voters be that daft?

Somebody with a brain would assume that if elected to the Dáil he would take his seat and co-opt somebody else (one of their scores of councillors) to take his Belfast MLA seat.

From what I have heard, EU candidate Tomás Sharkey and Arthur Morgan TD both backed Adams. To suggest it is an act of desperation is ridiculous - it's Sinn Féin showing that they aren't just a "northern party" and what better way to do it than having Gerry Adams, SF President, run in the south.

It should be officially confirmed at the Edentubber Commemoration tomorrow at 2.30.

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

But who knows, perhaps Adams persuaded him to retire so he could have that seat. The timing of Morgan's announcement was certainly odd.

Wrong.

Arthur Morgan had to be persuaded by SF to run in the last election. He has been wanting to vacate his seat to concentrate on the family business (OceanFresh / Morgans Fine Fish). He has announced that he will still be active in Sinn Féin.

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Z Brannigan wrote: »

Somebody with a brain would assume that if elected to the Dáil he would take his seat and co-opt somebody else (one of their scores of councillors) to take his Belfast MLA seat.

From what I have heard, EU candidate Tomás Sharkey and Arthur Morgan TD both backed Adams. To suggest it is an act of desperation is ridiculous - it's Sinn Féin showing that they aren't just a "northern party" and what better way to do it than having Gerry Adams, SF President, run in the south.

It should be officially confirmed at the Edentubber Commemoration tomorrow at 2.30.

Well sorry it it hurts but that's the way I see it.

What a naive (I'm being polite calling it naive) argument. Gerry Adams is what makes SF a Northern Party. He is forever associated with the North.

Any attempt to change the Northern Party image surely shouldn't have anything to do with Gerry Adams.

walrusgumble

hotmail.com wrote: »

Will he be able to attend the Dail? Will the Louth voters vote for someone that won't actually sit in the Dail, but claims the TD salary and related expenses? Will the Louth voters be that daft?

what decade are you living in? why wouldn't he take hs seat in dail eireann?. he sits in stormount and he wants dail eireann or a new version to have jurisdiction over belfast.

its westminister which he abstains from, a place which a majority of his constiutents have accepted for quite some time, as did the creators of this state



we have plenty of dailers and seanad members who have alledgely claimed their salaries and expenses for doing little or nothing as it is, without referring to adams. you would swear that no westminister work is not done at all just because the mp does not actually enter the chamber of westminister. sure might as well check out the attendance of your local td in the dail chambers

that said, it does not say alot for sinn fein if they have to parachute him in. will he succeed? he really must have his eyes on the áras.would be nice to see him scare ahern (legitimately of course) interesting times ahead. expect LOADS and LOADS of new exclusive hard hitting books and documentaries aided by our illustrious media on sinn fein and the ira and mr adams. maybe adams will come out and finally tell us what the dog in the street already knows (which won't effect him no more than if gilmore admitted he had connections with sinn fein workers party/official ira, in fact it might give the opposition one less obstacle to stick on him - few rav on about mcguinnees) once all the hulabalu is gone, then he can get down to the meat and butter of how to sort this island out.

maybe the cape crusader and protector of all things anti republican, michael mcdowell may return?

remember when dev and collins simultaneously held seats in cork/clare and down/armagh (or was it antrim?)

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well sorry it it hurts but that's the way I see it.

What a naive argument. Gerry Adams is what makes SF a Northern Party. He is forever associated with the North.

Any attempt to change the Northern Party image surely shouldn't have anything to do with Gerry Adams.

But then again, you have an anti-SF agenda so your opinion is skewed to looking for the negative in anything they do.

Gerry Adams is associated with the north, obviously, as is SF.

But SF is also an all-Ireland party (the only one in the country) and what better way to highlight this than by running in the south.

hotmail.com

Z Brannigan wrote: »

Somebody with a brain would assume that if elected to the Dáil he would take his seat and co-opt somebody else (one of their scores of councillors) to take his Belfast MLA seat.

But the voters of Belfast voted for Adams not some councillor. Is what you're suggesting even constitutionally possible?

If that is the case, Will Adams still get the Stormont salary and expenses and so will the councillor.

Absurd.

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Bloody excellent. I know were my vote is going.


He should take Morgans seat.


An extreme amount of Anti SF bias in the OP, sad really. For shame.

You don't find it at all cynical that a man who doesn't even live in this jurisdiction would contest a Dail seat? I would find it hard to stomach a celebrity candidate parachuted in from outside my constsuency, let alone what SF are proposing with this blatant stunt.

hotmail.com

Z Brannigan wrote: »

But then again, you have an anti-SF agenda so your opinion is skewed to looking for the negative in anything they do.

Gerry Adams is associated with the north, obviously, as is SF.

But SF is also an all-Ireland party (the only one in the country) and what better way to highlight this than by running in the south.

So you agree with me. Good.

Einhard

Z Brannigan wrote: »

Somebody with a brain would assume that if elected to the Dáil he would take his seat and co-opt somebody else (one of their scores of councillors) to take his Belfast MLA seat.

Not particularly democratic is it? I thought SF were supposed to offer us a change? Seems like politics as usual to me.

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you agree with me. Good.

And you fail to address the rest of my point... good man.

You're anti-SF ramblings on here have proved you know next to nothing about them, the Louth consituency or the parties policy and that you created this thread as little more than an attempt to attack them.

You go ahead and vote for your local Fger or ex-PD and let the people of Louth choose Adams...

Z Brannigan

Einhard wrote: »

Not particularly democratic is it? I thought SF were supposed to offer us a change? Seems like politics as usual to me.

How is it not? He has to win a selection convention first.

Regarding the co-option - that of course is only if an election is called before next summer. And even if somebody was co-opted, it would only be for a few months.

SF does offerchange, if you'd read their policy documents or pre-budget submissions then you would not the type of change they offer.

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walrusgumble wrote: »

what decade are you living in? why wouldn't he take hs seat in dail eireann?. he sits in stormount and he wants dail eireann or a new version to have jurisdiction over belfast.

its westminister which he abstains from, a place which a majority of his constiutents have accepted for quite some time, as did the creators of this state



we have plenty of dailers and seanad members who have alledgely claimed their salaries and expenses for doing little or nothing as it is, without referring to adams. you would swear that no westminister work is not done at all just because the mp does not actually enter the chamber of westminister. sure might as well check out the attendance of your local td in the dail chambers
QUOTE]


What are you on about?

Stormont and the Dail sit at the same time. He can't physically attend both parliaments?

Regarding your second paragraph, are you trying to say it's ok for Adams to claim as much expenses and salaries he can get because other TDs ans senators do it?

Please, can we have some logic on this discussion.

charlemont

Fair play to Gerry Adams and i wish him well in the elections, he will be an asset to the Dáil.....


the only desperation around is from Fianna Fail supporters who know that their game is up.....

Wolfe Tone

Einhard wrote: »

You don't find it at all cynical that a man who doesn't even live in this jurisdiction would contest a Dail seat? I would find it hard to stomach a celebrity candidate parachuted in from outside my constsuency, let alone what SF are proposing with this blatant stunt.

Sorry, what country does he live in? He is an Irishman just as much as you or I. I think it is a perfect demonstration that SF is an all Ireland party.

hotmail.com

Z Brannigan wrote: »

And you fail to address the rest of my point... good man.

You're anti-SF ramblings on here have proved you know next to nothing about them, the Louth consituency or the parties policy and that you created this thread as little more than an attempt to attack them.

You go ahead and vote for your local Fger or ex-PD and let the people of Louth choose Adams...

That's the second time you've made a personal attack on me. Reported.

hardCopy

Although I'm not a constituent of Louth, if I was I'd have to say "F€^k that"

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

But the voters of Belfast voted for Adams not some councillor. Is what you're suggesting even constitutionally possible?

If that is the case, Will Adams still get the Stormont salary and expenses and so will the councillor.

Absurd.

Obviously they would have voted for the councillor as well.

And were the election early in the eyar the co-op would only be replacing him for 2 months or so before the next Assembly election. If it's around the same time then there would be no need for a co-option anyway.

Sinn Féin TD's and MLA's and MP's only claim the average industrial wage. Any money above that (€32,000) they get is put into the party coffers, it is part of their contract. So it wouldn't matter if Adams was getting elected in 10 different constituencies, he himself would only get the average wage and the rest would go back into the SF party.

walrusgumble

hotmail.com wrote: »

But the voters of Belfast voted for Adams not some councillor. Is what you're suggesting even constitutionally possible?

If that is the case, Will Adams still get the Stormont salary and expenses and so will the councillor.

Absurd.

didn't the assembly put a stop to being allowed double job eg iris robinson? surely same would apply here? wouldn't he have too much work in louth to do, after all he needs to build their trust and should not be arrogant enough to think arthur will do all the leg work behind the scene.

Einhard

Z Brannigan wrote: »

How is it not? He has to win a selection convention first.

Regarding the co-option - that of course is only if an election is called before next summer. And even if somebody was co-opted, it would only be for a few months.

It doesn't really matter how long it is for. He was elected to represent his constituents in the north; when he feels it politcally opportune, he jumps ship and hand picks his replacement. The every antithesis of democracy if you ask me (assuming that's how co-option works).

SF does offerchange, if you'd read their policy documents or pre-budget submissions then you would not the type of change they offer.

I did read it. dnoflep posted it here. It's really more of the same FF ideology- Win at all costs. Their manifesto is not so much as a platform to govern, but a platform to win an election. There's nothing new in that cynical old game. It's what got us into this mess in the first place.

junder

It would be great if Gerry runs in Louth and fails, I can but hope. Still if he does win it will be your turn to put up with his pigeon Irish, I know a few Irish speakers that cringe when he speaks.

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Z Brannigan wrote: »

Obviously they would have voted for the councillor as well.

And were the election early in the eyar the co-op would only be replacing him for 2 months or so before the next Assembly election. If it's around the same time then there would be no need for a co-option anyway.

Sinn Féin TD's and MLA's and MP's only claim the average industrial wage. Any money above that (€32,000) they get is put into the party coffers, it is part of their contract. So it wouldn't matter if Adams was getting elected in 10 different constituencies, he himself would only get the average wage and the rest would go back into the SF party.

I'm well aware of SF's policy on salaries and it doesn't change my view of this ridiculous political stunt designed to gain as much publicity as possible for a party on the rocks in the Republic.

Z Brannigan

Einhard wrote: »

It doesn't really matter how long it is for. He was elected to represent his constituents in the north; when he feels it politcally opportune, he jumps ship and hand picks his replacement. The every antithesis of democracy if you ask me (assuming that's how co-option works).

I did read it. dnoflep posted it here. It's really more of the same FF ideology- Win at all costs. Their manifesto is not so much as a platform to govern, but a platform to win an election. There's nothing new in that cynical old game. It's what got us into this mess in the first place.

He does represent his constituents as a SF representative. All of whom represent their constituents in the same way. He was elected on a SF platform. The election in the south isn't supposed to until after the Assembly elections so unless an earlier date is confirmed this is a completely hypothetical situation.

You obviously haven't read their manifesto or pre-budget submission. In the off-chance that you did, then I take it you have never read the FF one judging by how absolutely completely different they are yet you somehow believe they are similar. Incredible really...

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Sorry, what country does he live in? He is an Irishman just as much as you or I. I think it is a perfect demonstration that SF is an all Ireland party.

I think that you would be outraged if FF or FG pulled such a blatant stunt, and rightly so. He wants to represent the people of Louth when, not only does he not live in the same county, he doesn't live in the same jurisdiction. That's outrageous, and I wish SF supporters would put aside their partisanship every now and again, and actually look with an unbiased eye at some of the proposals of their party. Why is it that die hard FF supporters who back the party regardless of policy are rightly maligned, yet SF supporters who do the same never have the absurdity of their position pointed out to them?

I'm not, BTW, stating that all, or even most, SF supporters, blindly support the party, but quite a number do.

K-9

Einhard wrote: »

It doesn't really matter how long it is for. He was elected to represent his constituents in the north; when he feels it politcally opportune, he jumps ship and hand picks his replacement. The every antithesis of democracy if you ask me (assuming that's how co-option works).



I did read it. dnoflep posted it here. It's really more of the same FF ideology- Win at all costs. Their manifesto is not so much as a platform to govern, but a platform to win an election. There's nothing new in that cynical old game. It's what got us into this mess in the first place.

+1,000.

It's like parachuting Bertie in, though maybe 2007 would be a better yardstick!

It would be like putting Packie Bonner into the Donegal SW bye election. The same people supporting this would be opposing that!

walrusgumble

Einhard wrote: »

You don't find it at all cynical that a man who doesn't even live in this jurisdiction would contest a Dail seat? I would find it hard to stomach a celebrity candidate parachuted in from outside my constsuency, let alone what SF are proposing with this blatant stunt.

fair enough, but would you have had any problems when fine gael brought in austin currie?

he would hardly be a celebrity candidate ala george lee or john o mahoney. adams would know the country reasonably well. if he has something to contribute, what is the problem? he is irish after all. the northern assembly has not falling down since sinn fein and dup have taken over.

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm well aware of SF's policy on salaries and it doesn't change my view of this ridiculous political stunt designed to gain as much publicity as possible for a party on the rocks in the Republic.

So if you are well aware of their policy then why did you bring it up as if you were unaware of it?

Attempting to distort the situation to the impartial observer again were you?

hotmail.com

Einhard wrote: »

I think that you would be outraged if FF or FG pulled such a blatant stunt, and rightly so. He wants to represent the people of Louth when, not only does he not live in the same county, he doesn't live in the same jurisdiction. That's outrageous, and I wish SF supporters would put aside their partisanship every now and again, and actually look with an unbiased eye at some of the proposals of their party. Why is it that die hard FF supporters who back the party regardless of policy are rightly maligned, yet SF supporters who do the same never have the absurdity of their position pointed out to them?

I'm not, BTW, stating that all, or even most, SF supporters, blindly support the party, but quite a number do.

+1000

Einhard

Z Brannigan wrote: »

You obviously haven't read their manifesto or pre-budget submission. In the off-chance that you did, then I take it you have never read the FF one judging by how absolutely completely different they are yet you somehow believe they are similar. Incredible really...

You obviously haven't read my post. Incredible really...

I'm not stating that SF and FF are alike in their current policies, but rather in their belief that politics begins and ends at electioneering. SF, like FF before them, tell the electorate what they want to hear, rather than what they need to hear. There's is an electioneering manifesto rather than one of governance. And that's exactly how FF operated in 1997, 2002 and 2007.

amacachi

Sigh, well that's 2 of the 4 seats here filled in the next election.

walrusgumble

Einhard wrote: »

Not particularly democratic is it? I thought SF were supposed to offer us a change? Seems like politics as usual to me.

how is it any different to a fianna fail or fine gael candidate being co opt to the local council when their party colleague/sister-brother/son-daugher etc goes to the dail or senand?

Z Brannigan

junder wrote: »

It would be great if Gerry runs in Louth and fails, I can but hope. Still if he does win it will be your turn to put up with his pigeon Irish, I know a few Irish speakers that cringe when he speaks.

I know it's hard for unionists to accept that Irish people have a culture of their own while your lot have nothing, but you don't have to be so petty about it.

And surely you could have retained your dignity by making that comment in your own "language"... oolster scotch.

Einhard

walrusgumble wrote: »

fair enough, but would you have had any problems when fine gael brought in austin currie?

he would hardly be a celebrity candidate ala george lee or john o mahoney. adams would know the country reasonably well. if he has something to contribute, what is the problem? he is irish after all. the northern assembly has not falling down since sinn fein and dup have taken over.

Well yes, I would. I don't like celebrity candidates, especially those parachuted in from other constituencies, and SF are proposing to take that even further, and parachute one in from another jurisdiction. If FF did so there'd be justifiable uproar.

Wolfe Tone

"Another jurisdiction" FFS, its not as if he is coming in from France

hotmail.com

Z Brannigan wrote: »

So if you are well aware of their policy then why did you bring it up as if you were unaware of it?

Attempting to distort the situation to the impartial observer again were you?

The money goes to SF doesn't it. Hence they all benefit from it.

I'd have more respect if they donated the money to worthwhile charitable causes.

I'm also troubled by the irony of SF MPs, MLAs and TDs, taking a reduced salary, given SF's history of finances.

I would suggest that any impartial observer, that you speak about, would feel exactly the same.

Z Brannigan

Einhard wrote: »

You obviously haven't read my post. Incredible really...

I'm not stating that SF and FF are alike in their current policies, but rather in their belief that politics begins and ends at electioneering. SF, like FF before them, tell the electorate what they want to hear, rather than what they need to hear. There's is an electioneering manifesto rather than one of governance. And that's exactly how FF operated in 1997, 2002 and 2007.

That's a ridiculous comment to make as you can;t judge that until SF get into government. Their pre-budget submission is very well written and researched and could be implemented. To suggest it is just lies, as you are, is silly.

Z Brannigan

hotmail.com wrote: »

The money goes to SF doesn't it. Hence they all benefit from it.

I'd have more respect if they donated the money to worthwhile charitable causes.

I'm also troubled by the irony of SF MPs, MLAs and TDs, taking a reduced salary, given SF's history of finances.

I would suggest that any impartial observer, that you speak about, would feel exactly the same.

Yes the money goes to pay for the salaries of SF employees.

"Given SF's history of finances"... What history would that be?

I think you'll find that SF are the only party in the south who publish their entire income and expenditure annually in a concise and verifiable manner. SO please enlighten me as to this particular history you speak of... and also explain how it is ironic.

hotmail.com

amacachi wrote: »

Sigh, well that's 2 of the 4 seats here filled in the next election.

You think? I'm not so certain. It's a huge risk for Adams.

Did Arthur Morgan have a large personal vote, as opposed to it being a strictly SF vote in Louth?

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

"Another jurisdiction" FFS, its not as if he is coming in from France

It's a different jurisdiction is it not?

hotmail.com

Z Brannigan wrote: »

Yes the money goes to pay for the salaries of SF employees.

Scandalous.