1 Euro bid for 65 Acres in Meath

pakalasa

Anyone know the full story here;

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/euro1-bid-for-farm-shows-depth-of-locals-anger-toward-banks-2417299.html

Luckily there was no Yank around.

emo72

a happy story. glad no-one bought it. although what fecker bid a euro!

Muckit

Yes, it's great to see this kind of peaceful protest, it's says so much without the brawling and public protests

It will be interesting to see how the story ends though, will the banks win out in the end. As stated all it takes is some 'outsider' to come in that isn't sympathetic to the situation....

Tora Bora

Muckit wrote: »

Yes, it's great to see this kind of peaceful protest, it's says so much without the brawling and public protests

It will be interesting to see how the story ends though, will the banks win out in the end. As stated all it takes is some 'outsider' to come in that isn't sympathetic to the situation....

The Bull McCabe vs the Yank:D

Muckit

Tora Bora wrote: »

The Bull McCabe vs the Yank:D

Ya heard a story recently of a lad that was bet within an inch of his life after he bought a farm in those curcumstances. Seemed like cheap land at the time. He threw it up in the end, couldn't stay in the place

Birdnuts

pakalasa wrote: »

Anyone know the full story here;

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/euro1-bid-for-farm-shows-depth-of-locals-anger-toward-banks-2417299.html

Luckily there was no Yank around.

Suggests farms will be selling on Ebay soon:(

Tipp Man

Do we know the situation that the fella selling got himself into though?

Its easy be critical of the banks in the current environment but at the end of the day they still have a job to do and if you put up your land or house as collatarol against other loans, then it is your responsibility to meet the repayments. According to the Indo report, a receiver had been appointed so it's not like the bank aren't selling it without good reason

We are going to see an aweful lot more of this type of land being sold around the country

whelan1

wasn't there another farm over the west a while ago where the ifa went in to protest at repossession , what was the outcome there?

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do we know the situation that the fella selling got himself into though?

Its easy be critical of the banks in the current environment but at the end of the day they still have a job to do and if you put up your land or house as collatarol against other loans, then it is your responsibility to meet the repayments. According to the Indo report, a receiver had been appointed so it's not like the bank aren't selling it without good reason

We are going to see an aweful lot more of this type of land being sold around the country

+1 , my attitude is whoever buys the land will be doing the farmer a favour

pakalasa

There are two sides to it really. The farmer did agree initially to hand over thee deeds of the land in the event of he not being able to pay back the loan. Say what you will, that's what he agreed to!

Can't help but think though that if we were in different times, the bank would be that bit more flexible. They are cash starved at the moment.

whelan1

pakalasa wrote: »

There are two sides to it really. The farmer did agree initially to hand over thee deeds of the land in the event of he not being able to pay back the loan. Say what you will, that's what he agreed to!

Can't help but think though that if we were in different times, the bank would be that bit more flexible. They are cash starved at the moment.

but look at all the homeowners who cant afford their mortgages

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

but look at all the homeowners who cant afford their mortgages

And that is going to be the huge huge problem in this country on 2011 and 2012. There's already talk of a mini nama for the mortage defaulters.

Don Juan DeMagoo

Really uplifting to hear of such a nice community spirit in these times

Casinoking

I wonder if his tractor or jeep had been reposessed would people have refused to bid on them too. How many of these neighbours would have the €650-€750K required to buy the land in the first place? It's easy to take the moral high ground when you haven't got the money to spend in the first place. Had it happened 4 or 5 years ago when the banks were throwing money at people I bet it would have sold for a record price.

futurefarmer

Have to agree with the last post unfortunately

Don Juan DeMagoo

Casinoking wrote: »

I wonder if his tractor or jeep had been reposessed would people have refused to bid on them too. How many of these neighbours would have the €650-€750K required to buy the land in the first place? It's easy to take the moral high ground when you haven't got the money to spend in the first place. Had it happened 4 or 5 years ago when the banks were throwing money at people I bet it would have sold for a record price.

I disagree, you may be shocked that sometimes there are other things that are more important than greed.

I have been told a story from this area, when in the 1950's land was repossessed by a money lender (the local auctioneer). The local area made it impossible for the auctioneer to try and stock it with his own cattle and every time he did manage to stock it, they "broke" out by next morning. In the end he gave back the land to save his reputation.... And this was prime farm land.

Small communities are very close. But sure maybe your right, maybe everyone is a narrow minded selfish person........ I doubt it though

Casinoking

Don Juan DeMagoo wrote: »

I disagree, you may be shocked that sometimes there are other things that are more important than greed.

I have been told a story from this area, when in the 1950's land was repossessed by a money lender (the local auctioneer). The local area made it impossible for the auctioneer to try and stock it with his own cattle and every time he did manage to stock it, they "broke" out by next morning. In the end he gave back the land to save his reputation.... And this was prime farm land.

Small communities are very close. But sure maybe your right, maybe everyone is a narrow minded selfish person........ I doubt it though

I never said everyone is a narrow-minded selfish person, but there are plenty of them about. All I'm saying is there's often more to a story than first appears. I personally know of a piece of land that the banks are trying to sell for the last 2 years, the only reason they haven't been successful is the "owner" and the person who has rented it from him for a number of years have threatened anyone who has shown any interest in it. The Bull McCabe is alive and well in these modern times of peace, love and community spirit.

Don Juan DeMagoo

Casinoking wrote: »

I never said everyone is a narrow-minded selfish person, but there are plenty of them about. All I'm saying is there's often more to a story than first appears. I personally know of a piece of land that the banks are trying to sell for the last 2 years, the only reason they haven't been successful is the "owner" and the person who has rented it from him for a number of years have threatened anyone who has shown any interest in it. The Bull McCabe is alive and well in these modern times of peace, love and community spirit.

That is a different story, I totally am against **** like that. But they will get their due deserves in the end. Karma is a bitch and charges interest in the long run.

ihatetractors

All well and good for that Beggan fella, but if the shoe was on your foot would all your neighbours do the same?, christ i can think of 1 or 2 cutthroats around here

whelan1

at the end of the day an agreement was signed to make repayments on a loan and this land was security , he defaulted end of , whats the problem

uberwolf

and in ten years time, when all has righted itself, the banks will be even less likely to accept farm land as collateral for loans if this becomes a pattern.

whelan1

uberwolf wrote: »

and in ten years time, when all has righted itself, the banks will be even less likely to accept farm land as collateral for loans if this becomes a pattern.

if this becomes the norm why would they , sure houses are the same

pakalasa

I know of a well-known cattle dealer in my area that bought repossessed cattle from a bank. A couple of weeks later he was invited to a farm to look at some cattle. The owners of the repossessed cattle were there, waiting for him. They gave him some beating. Like the wild west at times.:mad:

Don Juan DeMagoo

pakalasa wrote: »

I know of a well-known cattle dealer in my area that bought repossessed cattle from a bank. A couple of weeks later he was invited to a farm to look at some cattle. The owners of the repossessed cattle were there, waiting for him. They gave him some beating. Like the wild west at times.:mad:

Bloody hell what flipping cavemen..........

Mike 1972

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do we know the situation that the fella selling got himself into though?

Its easy be critical of the banks in the current environment but at the end of the day they still have a job to do and if you put up your land or house as collatarol against other loans, then it is your responsibility to meet the repayments. According to the Indo report, a receiver had been appointed so it's not like the bank aren't selling it without good reason

We are going to see an aweful lot more of this type of land being sold around the country

I would have to give a somewhat reluctant +1 on that

The story the OP linked to tells us practically nothing about the original circumstances of the case.

The original owner of the land could have been the unfortunate victim of predatory business practices on the part of the banks or some other misfortune largely beyond their control

On the other hand they could be the biggest chancer going or just a plain old fashioned idiot.

Unless there is strong evidence to support the former I wouldnt blame anyone for bidding on the land. Hey if id any interest in land in County Meath I might have bid a fiver on it !

coolshannagh28

The sooner we catch ourselves on and boycott all repossesion sales the better,its how we dealt with the landlords and the banks are no better .They spent the last two years buying govt bonds instead of lending after being bailed out with the same money, which we will be a generation paying back.They have sunk us and we will have to turn on them.

Shauny2010

what about those builders and speculators who drove the price of land crazy
are we expected to boycot any repo sales for them? I can tell you now for a fact Ill do no such thing, I spent long enough not being able to afford land due to these wAn*ers

irishh_bob

on a seperte note , watch the price of land tumble off the back of our impending bailout , nothing will escape the carnage

tismesoitis

have to agree with last post could'nt buy land for the last number of years for love nor money and though i have pity on anyone farmer or not who can't make their repayments they did borrow this money and must pay it back or pay the consequences!!! **** happens but people who default on debts should not be supported it will only send out the wrong message!!

Shauny2010

irishh_bob wrote: »

on a seperte note , watch the price of land tumble off the back of our impending bailout , nothing will escape the carnage

The price of land has already tumbled, its just that some estate agents and sellers are deluded. The reality is that if you want to buy a piece of land then you need to stump up half the price of it before any bank wants to know about a loan, and I`ll bet there isnt many who can do that at the prices been quoted

Tipp Man

irishh_bob wrote: »

on a seperte note , watch the price of land tumble off the back of our impending bailout , nothing will escape the carnage

Out of curiosity what do you think it will fall to per acre for good land?

We're in negotiations for 70 acres for the last 3 months so am curious to see where we are at relative to others opinions of price

Don Juan DeMagoo

irishh_bob wrote: »

on a seperte note , watch the price of land tumble off the back of our impending bailout , nothing will escape the carnage

Agreed it will be like the 1950's though..... there will be plenty of land for sale but it will be impossible to get funds to purchase it.... Banks won't accept deeds as security, it is hard enough to get an overdraft out of them presently never mind a loan, so you can imagine what it will be like if it gets worse.

On a side note,
plenty of my neighbours who are farmers, never would they have been classified as being very productive farmers. Are now in massive debt with various properties around the place. Life must be unbearable for them.

One lad has a Thoroughbred mare he paid 35 grand for when times were good, he has no experience with horses at all. He came over a while ago asking pops how much does he reckon she is worth now as he is in dire financial straits.
He told him that his mare had more things wrong with it just at a glance, that he shouldn't have bought it in the first place and not to bother bringing it to the sales as it won't do well, especially in this current climate. He went anyway and sold the mare for 600 euro.
Madness and it prob cost more money just to register it for the sales.

There are times I do find it hard to have sympathy for some of these people.

Don Juan DeMagoo

Tipp Man wrote: »

Out of curiosity what do you think it will fall to per acre for good land?

We're in negotiations for 70 acres for the last 3 months so am curious to see where we are at relative to others opinions of price

If it is decent land I would reckon 7 or 8 grand an acre?
So am I hot or cold with my guesstimate?

Tipp Man

Don Juan DeMagoo wrote: »

If it is decent land I would reckon 7 or 8 grand an acre?
So am I hot or cold with my guesstimate?

I'll let you know when a few others reply!! Don't want to influence the answers!!

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Out of curiosity what do you think it will fall to per acre for good land?

We're in negotiations for 70 acres for the last 3 months so am curious to see where we are at relative to others opinions of price

i stated in a thread about land prices two weeks ago that land was still twice to dear , that i expected land to average no more than 5000 euro per acre in the next five years , i feel different now , i believe land will collapse in price next year , i wouldnt give more than 5 k for land unless it was a dairy farm , cottage farms up cul de sacs are not even worth 5 k IMO

irishh_bob

Shauny2010 wrote: »

The price of land has already tumbled, its just that some estate agents and sellers are deluded. The reality is that if you want to buy a piece of land then you need to stump up half the price of it before any bank wants to know about a loan, and I`ll bet there isnt many who can do that at the prices been quoted

everything is relative and you aint seen nothing yet as regards land prices tumbling , the reason land is still 10 k an acre is due to the fact that farmers are comparing it to 20 k during the boom

the boom was a whole other country

Dan_Solo

pakalasa wrote: »

I know of a well-known cattle dealer in my area that bought repossessed cattle from a bank. A couple of weeks later he was invited to a farm to look at some cattle. The owners of the repossessed cattle were there, waiting for him. They gave him some beating. Like the wild west at times.:mad:

So the guys who assaulted him went to jail?
I mean, there are laws here, right?

ihatetractors

irishh_bob wrote: »

i stated in a thread about land prices two weeks ago that land was still twice to dear , that i expected land to average no more than 5000 euro per acre in the next five years , i feel different now , i believe land will collapse in price next year , i wouldnt give more than 5 k for land unless it was a dairy farm , cottage farms up cul de sacs are not even worth 5 k IMO

Seen a fella pay about 11.5 k per acre recently for 60 odd acres of the best barley land you can get, dont know if thats tax incld etc...?
And he ain't no spring chicken considering over the last 30-40 years he's grown his farm by about 1000% in acerage. Though a huge check in the post probably help that,

5live

Tipp Man wrote: »

Out of curiosity what do you think it will fall to per acre for good land?

We're in negotiations for 70 acres for the last 3 months so am curious to see where we are at relative to others opinions of price

The price will depend on demand tbh. But its hard to see good land going below 5k an acre. If access is good with good road frontage and potential for selling a site or two then 7k would be a good price imo

Username John

5live wrote: »

The price will depend on demand tbh. But its hard to see good land going below 5k an acre. If access is good with good road frontage and potential for selling a site or two then 7k would be a good price imo

Surely banking on selling a site should not be taken into consideration now when buying land?
If people still think they can buy a few acres for 7k - 10k / acre, and sell an acre for 50k - 100k, then the price of land will be even slower to come down. And we'll see more repossesions.
If someone was to buy land thinking they couldsell a few sites off em, and they couldnt sell em, and got into financial trouble, I wouldnt feel too much pity for them...

5live

Username John wrote: »

Surely banking on selling a site should not be taken into consideration now when buying land?
If people still think they can buy a few acres for 7k - 10k / acre, and sell an acre for 50k - 100k, then the price of land will be even slower to come down. And we'll see more repossesions.
If someone was to buy land thinking they couldsell a few sites off em, and they couldnt sell em, and got into financial trouble, I wouldnt feel too much pity for them...

Or me either but selling a site can be a way of getting cash to pay off debt if a farmer needs an injection of funds. See 2009 as a template for need to access cash. A few farmers round me sold sites as banks not giving much leeway with poor cashflows. It is a potential use of land as much as dairying or tillage

leg wax

i still cant believe the value that you are putting on land,first what bank will give you money onless you already have it,and if you already have it saved up your some fool to go and spend it on land and have to work harder to get it all back, interest rates are going to go up ,single farm payment is going down ,milk will be in for a fright when quotas go due to supply and demande,costs are all to high from vet to fertilizer.land is only worth what you can pay back over 20 years and that repayment has to come from the land you bought not from the land already owned otherwise its not paying for its self.takeing into account all above i put a value on land of about 2500- 3000 a acre.no i will change that the value should be around 2000 euro

Dan_Solo

5live wrote: »

The price will depend on demand tbh. But its hard to see good land going below 5k an acre. If access is good with good road frontage and potential for selling a site or two then 7k would be a good price imo

Investing in "potential"? Isn't that how the country got into this mess? The potential turned out to be somewhere between a pipedream and a sham.

scub_a

The report said he was a developer.....

If the assets in question was an office block or 20 houses he had bought to rent. People would jump at the chance to buy a house at a realistic price.

If he was a farmer that actually farmed the land himself then thats another story.

pakalasa

leg wax wrote: »

i still cant believe the value that you are putting on land,first what bank will give you money onless you already have it,and if you already have it saved up your some fool to go and spend it on land and have to work harder to get it all back, interest rates are going to go up ,single farm payment is going down ,milk will be in for a fright when quotas go due to supply and demande,costs are all to high from vet to fertilizer.land is only worth what you can pay back over 20 years and that repayment has to come from the land you bought not from the land already owned otherwise its not paying for its self.takeing into account all above i put a value on land of about 2500- 3000 a acre.no i will change that the value should be around 2000 euro

Legwax, from reading your other posts, you're wintering cattle on kale, selling BB weanlings, at the right time of the year, into the export market. So I take it you're making a decent enough profit..... And you're putting €2K/acre as the value.:D

Land, and the ownership of it, is so much entwined in our history, that we'll pay bit more than, common sense would dictate it is worth.

Rough calculation - top "Better" suckler farmers making €600/Hectare or €260 per acre. 20 times this is €5,200 per acre.

leg wax

pakalasa wrote: »

Legwax, from reading your other posts, you're wintering cattle on kale, selling BB weanlings, at the right time of the year, into the export market. So I take it you're making a decent enough profit..... And you're putting €2K/acre as the value.:D

Land, and the ownership of it, is so much entwined in our history, that we'll pay bit more than, common sense would dictate it is worth.

Rough calculation - top "Better" suckler farmers making €600/Hectare or €260 per acre. 20 times this is €5,200 per acre.

this 260 euro figure is that a teagasc profit,is that figure is whats left after all costs for the year + paying myself a good wage for all the extra work ,for every extra acre that i buy how much extra would i be getting as a wage per acre

pakalasa

leg wax wrote: »

this 260 euro figure is that a teagasc profit,is that figure is whats left after all costs for the year + paying myself a good wage for all the extra work ,for every extra acre that i buy how much extra would i be getting as a wage per acre

260 Euro - a nett profit, I take it. What's the point talking about gross profit (whatever that is??). The 1000 Euro / Hectare was thrown around there for a while (435/acre).

Not much extra would you get per acre on bought land - NONE.

But say an oldish farmer with no debts and a bit saved. Would be a good investment say for the next generation coming along.

Look, there's no point talking about what land is worth, it's what it makes that counts! It's a long term investment, and that's how people in this country look at it. It will go from generation to generation, especially in hard times.:rolleyes:

Muckit

irishh_bob wrote: »

i wouldnt give more than 5 k for land unless it was a dairy farm , cottage farms up cul de sacs are not even worth 5 k IMO

I hope your right. I'm looking at a few small parcels at the moment. I was putting €5,900 on a 25acre piece. Having a look at it again on Saturday. Doesn't seem to be much interest in small bits like it, like was said, people prob can't get the money....

5live

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Investing in "potential"? Isn't that how the country got into this mess? The potential turned out to be somewhere between a pipedream and a sham.

Well Dan, when someone buys anything off you, be it a calf, weanling or tractor, they are investing in its potential worth to them when its sold. A calf bought at E100 has a potential worth of E1000 or so. If it was worth only E100 after 2 years then who would buy? Same with land. Pay E2000 an acre, spend E500 an acre and have land worth E3000 an acre? Simple sum. And to equate land prices to house prices is insane. House prices went up on the understanding that they could never drop. Just like tulips in holland in the 17th century BOOM. Prices go up and down. Its a fact of life

irishh_bob

5live wrote: »

Well Dan, when someone buys anything off you, be it a calf, weanling or tractor, they are investing in its potential worth to them when its sold. A calf bought at E100 has a potential worth of E1000 or so. If it was worth only E100 after 2 years then who would buy? Same with land. Pay E2000 an acre, spend E500 an acre and have land worth E3000 an acre? Simple sum. And to equate land prices to house prices is insane. House prices went up on the understanding that they could never drop. Just like tulips in holland in the 17th century BOOM. Prices go up and down. Its a fact of life

surely you dont think land prices were divorced from the rest of the property bubble and all the assumptions that went with it , i imagine those people - farmers who paid 20 k an acre did so thinking it would retain its value to a large degree , i doubt many would have paid such sums had they known it would drop by more than half in less than three years

BeeDI

irishh_bob wrote: »

surely you dont think land prices were divorced from the rest of the property bubble and all the assumptions that went with it , i imagine those people - farmers who paid 20 k an acre did so thinking it would retain its value to a large degree , i doubt many would have paid such sums had they known it would drop by more than half in less than three years

Agricultural land in most countries has a value based far, far more on the potential profit which can be generated from it, than it does in Ireland.

Top class arable land in the central plains of Europe, within short distances of huge cities, and with highly developed efficient and low cost transport systems, has a much lower capital value than a middeling bit of land in ballygonowhere, in Ireland.

Much of the reason is to do with our huge attachment to the land above most other things.
I doubt though that the current crop of up and coming teenagers will have anything like the same attachment and hence land value will come much more in line with it's capacity to earn a working profit.