Doing whats right, rather than what's cheapest

tails_naf

I have seen a lot of people talk about punishing the government saying "we're off to Newry if they do x and y..", and "I'll be doing all my shopping online..", etc.

While it might seem like a nice form of revenge, we have to start thinking long term. The 100 quid saved by doing a months worth of shopping in Newry is a false economy - not only are you not saving that in reality (time, petrol, etc), but you (yes YOU) will end up paying for it 2x over.

If we all commit to spending at home for the next few months, it WILL make a difference, it WILL turn the numbers a little more in our favour - and as we know these things by nature are exponential. Ireland lost over a billion last christmas alone with people going to Newry to do their shopping - imagine how much difference that would make to both local and goverment coffers, as we are now going to be paying that billion+some back in increased taxes.

So what I'm asking for here is people to commit to Ireland, and to our future. We should be millitant about buying Irish for as long as we can, even if it costs a little more. We should be encouraging others to do the same - make the act of going to Newry something to be somewhat ashamed of, it would help greatly.

I know this can only reach a few hundred people on boards directly - but if we alone commit to this, and commit to telling people we know to just shop locally and buy Irish this christmas, I think it will have a positive effect.

For me - I'm committing to spending every cent this christmas at home, no matter how good that price is on Amazon, or how cheap a slab of beer is in the north. Who's with me?

Cookie_Monster

tails_naf wrote: »

So what I'm asking for here is people to commit to Ireland, and to our future. We should be millitant about buying Irish for as long as we can, even if it costs a little more. We should be encouraging others to do the same - make the act of going to Newry something to be somewhat ashamed of, it would help greatly.

its not a little more though, its a lot.
there are so many markets and products that are anywhere from 20-40% cheaper up north even with the fx rate.
Companies down here still rip people off big time, look at Tesco for example, still have the highest profit margin of anywhere, apart from Korea, in Ireland cos there is no competition and no pressure to lower prices here. But people don't notice that because they are still cheaper than any other super market here and always pridefully maintain they buy more Irish produce than anyone else

Nijmegen

It's worth noting that if you buy it on Amazon they pay VAT to the Irish government. Same with most ecommerce companies that I'm aware of, Komplett, Pixmania, Dabs, etc etc.

I'd sooner chop my balls off then shop up North to be honest, and as for those tight bastads that buy their tyres online :rolleyes: Sweet Jesus, and the mongs who go up North to get their car serviced and for dental work. If it's that good up there move there :pac:

ei.sdraob

A message brought (bought?) to you by Fianna Fail :rolleyes: :

* we will not allow you to have a democratic vote and decide on future of this country

* oh and its unpatriotic to vote with you wallet

---

a message from ei.sdraob:

"Dear FF GFY"

Amhran Nua

Instead of trying to engage in some quixotic quest to force people to spend money in Ireland, the government should instead be seeking to directly channel savings into investment in small startup companies and Irish co-ops, which would take advantage of the trend towards saving anyway.

djpbarry

tails_naf wrote: »

So what I'm asking for here is people to commit to Ireland, and to our future. We should be millitant about buying Irish for as long as we can, even if it costs a little more.

Bollocks to that. Irish businesses will get my money if they offer the best value for money.

tails_naf wrote: »

For me - I'm committing to spending every cent this christmas at home, no matter how good that price is on Amazon, or how cheap a slab of beer is in the north. Who's with me?

I've just bought myself a new keyboard in Maplin for EUR 17, but I'll sell it on to you for EUR 34. I'm Irish, so you have to accept my offer in order to live up to your own commitment.

djpbarry

djpbarry wrote: »

I've just bought myself a new keyboard in Maplin for EUR 17, but I'll sell it on to you for EUR 34. I'm Irish, so you have to accept my offer in order to live up to your own commitment.

Not really, he never committed to being a total f**ktard, he just said he was going to do all of his shopping in the ROI.

tails_naf

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

its not a little more though, its a lot.

My point is we will pay for anything saved through future taxes and services cut. Short term thinking got us into this mess.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there are so many markets and products that are anywhere from 20-40% cheaper up north even with the fx rate.

about 2 years ago, I went up north for 2 major items, a car and to kit out a new bathroom. Both of those times I came home with the distinct feeling that once they see you are Irish, they take advantage. in the end, I bought nothing there, and actually got better deals at home - with a little shopping around!

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Companies down here still rip people off big time, look at Tesco for example, still have the highest profit margin of anywhere, apart from Korea, in Ireland cos there is no competition and no pressure to lower prices here.

You're kidding right? Didn't you see Tesco slashing many prices as people were starting to to go Aldi and Lidl? Also, don't shop at Tesco (in the north or the south), if you feel you are being ripped off - don't support them, or any other place that is charging high prices. We can go online and see prices there, and then haggle with the shop.


I recently built a house, and I have to say, haggling is very much needed. I've saved tens of thousands, and every single item was bought in the republic. Of course you can't haggle for the weekly groceries or in the big-shops, but in those cases, vote with your feet and buy where it is cheapest.

somewhat of an aside, but I was thinking how nice it would be to setup a user-driven website where people enter prices of everyday items, and the store the bought them in (groceries mainly). Then other users could enter what items they need, and the website would generate a shopping-list saying:
Buy x y z at tesco, Buy a b c at Aldi, etc.
and would also state how much the total bill would be if all were bought at Aldi, and all at Tesco, etc.
Of course the difficulty would be in getting users to actually contribute to the site, as it wouldn't work without collaboration of all users, and updating of prices...Still always thought it would be a nice idea.

Cavehill Red

tails_naf wrote: »

I have seen a lot of people talk about punishing the government saying "we're off to Newry if they do x and y..", and "I'll be doing all my shopping online..", etc.

...

So what I'm asking for here is people to commit to Ireland, and to our future. We should be millitant about buying Irish for as long as we can, even if it costs a little more. We should be encouraging others to do the same - make the act of going to Newry something to be somewhat ashamed of, it would help greatly.

...

For me - I'm committing to spending every cent this christmas at home, no matter how good that price is on Amazon, or how cheap a slab of beer is in the north. Who's with me?

I'm being doubly patriotic - I'm doing all my shopping in the North, which you may not have noticed is also Ireland.

And by doing so, I'll help strangle revenue to the morally bankrupt government so that they cannot continue to prop up their bankster pals anymore.

I'd do this even if the North was more expensive, tbh. The fact it's cheaper is just a bonus.

tails_naf

djpbarry wrote: »

Bollocks to that. Irish businesses will get my money if they offer the best value for money.
I've just bought myself a new keyboard in Maplin for EUR 17, but I'll sell it on to you for EUR 34. I'm Irish, so you have to accept my offer in order to live up to your own commitment.

And when the IMF come in, and tax is at 70%, you'll be telling everyone you know "It's not my fault..I did noting wrong...I'm no banker, etc". Fair enough, but will you be able to say you do anything to try HELP the situation either, or just look after your own short term interests? We can give all our money away, with interest, or we can hang onto it.
This will not be solved by governments alone, or by others. It is up to us, if it is our fault or not that we are here.

tails_naf

ei.sdraob wrote: »

A message brought (bought?) to you by Fianna Fail :rolleyes: :

* we will not allow you to have a democratic vote and decide on future of this country

* oh and its unpatriotic to vote with you wallet

Just to get things straight, I can't stand FF, and hate them with a passion. This is not in anyway supporting them or whatever they say. It's just sense.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

a message from ei.sdraob:

"Dear FF GFY"

Couldn't agree more. FF GFY, but I don't want to GF myself, and my family's future. We can't afford as a nation to vote with our wallets, we should vote with our votes!!

djpbarry

RoverJames wrote: »

Not really, he never committed to being a total f**ktard, he just said he was going to do all of his shopping in the ROI.

I think you're missing the point - the OP is essentially proposing that we be bound to "buy Irish", regardless of the price differential.

djpbarry

tails_naf wrote: »

And when the IMF come in, and tax is at 70%, you'll be telling everyone you know "It's not my fault..I did noting wrong...I'm no banker, etc". Fair enough, but will you be able to say you do anything to try HELP the situation either, or just look after your own short term interests? We can give all our money away, with interest, or we can hang onto it.
This will not be solved by governments alone, or by others. It is up to us, if it is our fault or not that we are here.

That's quite an elaborate way of avoiding my question.

ei.sdraob

tails_naf wrote: »

we should vote with our votes!!

how? when?

tails_naf

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Instead of trying to engage in some quixotic quest to force people to spend money in Ireland, the government should instead be seeking to directly channel savings into investment in small startup companies and Irish co-ops, which would take advantage of the trend towards saving anyway.

Are you really honestly saying you're going to wait for the government to fix this? The same boys who completely and utterly ff'ed things up for us? They should fix it all by them selves, sure.

Don Quixote was deluded in his quest, but you are deluded if you think spending money outside Ireland is not going to hurt us at this time. My request may be deluded if everyone here can't get past the idea that it has to be fixed FOR them by SOMEONE else.

All those things you mention should be done. Why not do what I'm suggesting in parallel?

djpbarry

djpbarry wrote: »

I think you're missing the point - the OP is essentially proposing that we be bound to "buy Irish", regardless of the price differential.

I'm not missing the point at all, the OP has conceded that there is a price differential but also mentioned that folk should consider the time and expense in getting to the North, the differential is then much smaller. Also spending in the ROI is good for the economy which if done on a large scale will benefit us all.

tails_naf

djpbarry wrote: »

I think you're missing the point - the OP is essentially proposing that we be bound to "buy Irish", regardless of the price differential.

I am absolutely not. Please read the post carefully.

I said buy Irish, but shop around.
Remember the part where I said I saved thousands on building the house and everything was bought in the republic? that included pricing items up north (windows, bathroom fixtures, wood flooring, you name it, I priced it all up there, and found the same or cheaper down here).

Some shops here were 2x others, so sure if I just walked into a shop and was offered a keyboard for 34 euro...you know what I'd do? I'd walk out again.

So you can keep your keyboard, thanks anyway.

p.s. I was not avoiding the question, I just thought Roverjames answered for me (which he did)

Dannyboy83

If the Ryan report shows the cover up of priests pillaging the nation & raping children with crucifixes, don't expect a lot of committed Catholics.

If the leaders of this country continue to operate on one rule for them, 1 rule for the rest of us basis, don't expect a lot of patriotic Irish people.

Lead by example.

tails_naf

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm not missing the point at all, the OP has conceded that there is a price differential but also mentioned that folk should consider the time and expense in getting to the North, the differential is then much smaller. Also spending in the ROI is good for the economy which if done on a large scale will benefit us all.

Another thing - people have been lulled into the belief that everything is cheaper up north. The price differential can be significant on some items, but they are dearer for other items. Blindly buying in the north, without doing some decent shopping around in the south first, might actually see you loosing money.

I can give examples with actual numbers, if you want, of items I priced

tails_naf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

If the Ryan report shows the cover up of priests pillaging the nation & raping children with crucifixes, don't expect a lot of committed Catholics.

If the leaders of this country continue to operate on one rule for them, 1 rule for the rest of us basis, don't expect a lot of patriotic Irish people.

Lead by example.

This is so far off topic. You want to punish the government by sinking the country, and our own future? Don't you realise the government will always be fine money wise, it's just you and me that will be really punished if you take that attitude.


When the next vote comes, we vote them out to oblivion.
We stop asking our prospective local TD's to fix this and that 'local' problem, and instead say our vote for them is tied them going after those who caused this mess, and that we will remember if they don't. We say there is just one election issue.
That is the only way to send a message. Do you really think spending money up north will send a message? We need to send a message clearly, with words at the next election. And in parallel WE need to prop up our economy as best we can.

Uriel.

hmmmm the OP wants me to give up instantaneous savings to limit some pain at some stage in the future....

• I might be dead by the time the opportunity comes to offset the pain in the future
• Without savings on purchases today, I may well have starved to death by the time I reach that magical mystery time space of offsetting the pain in the future
• Do I believe that in the future (during medium to good times) my Local business' will appreciate the business I provided to them during tough times and not rape me like they have done for all these years. NO I Don't.

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...
So OP in response to your "heroic" call......


NO THANKS!

Dannyboy83

tails_naf wrote: »

This is so far off topic. You want to punish the government by sinking the country, and our own future? Don't you realise the government will always be fine money wise, it's just you and me that will be really punished if you take that attitude.


When the next vote comes, we vote them out to oblivion.
We stop asking our prospective local TD's to fix this and that 'local' problem, and instead say our vote for them is tied them going after those who caused this mess, and that we will remember if they don't. We say there is just one election issue.
That is the only way to send a message. Do you really think spending money up north will send a message? We need to send a message clearly, with words at the next election. And in parallel WE need to prop up our economy as best we can.

I was recently quoted at €2.1k by an Irish dentist for dental work.
I have no hope of being able to pay that.
I pay a lot of tax/prsi, I have private health insurance - none of it seems to be any benefit to me.

I checked out the prices in Poland/Lithuania and they are approx 1/6th the cost. Even the North is 1/2 the cost.
The fact that you get banned from the boards.ie dentistry forum for discussing foreign dentistry says it all tbh:rolleyes:

So I have to sit and suffer in silence for now, and some time next year, I will go Eastern Europe to have the work done.

In all honesty, I see Zero benefit from the taxes I pay.
I feel that the government clearly don't give a fcuk about me.
I can only hope that more people will do as I do and drive Irish dentists out of business.

Perhaps this is a bad example - because I don't actually have a choice in the matter.

Scarab80

djpbarry wrote: »

I think you're missing the point - the OP is essentially proposing that we be bound to "buy Irish", regardless of the price differential.

Not regardless of the price differential, but you have to factor in all costs. If you buy in northern ireland you are reducing the tax take and employment south of the border. The social welfare cost and reduced tax has to be made up BY YOU in the form of higher taxes or reduced services so the decision is not as straight forward as comparing prices, shopping in the north is, in many cases, a complete false economy.

tails_naf

Uriel. wrote: »

hmmmm the OP wants me to give up instantaneous savings to limit some pain at some stage in the future....


[*]I might be dead by the time by the time the opportunity comes to offset the pain in the future

Our you might survive, and live in misery.
All jokes aside, is there any room in your heart/head for the next generation at all? Or other people around you at all? Or even yourself if you don't pop your cloggs in the next 10-20 years?

Uriel. wrote: »

[*]Without savings on purchases today, I may well have starved to death by the time I reach that magical mystery time space of offsetting the pain in the future

I very much doubt going to Newry is for life's essentials..if you are that tight money wise that you might die, then Newry won't save you, your spending is doing you in. How much do you think you are putting away today with your Newry shop?

By the way, there is a subtle point - I'm not saying that spending more down here will cause you savings in the future.
I
'm saying that SAVING this week up there, will cause you very severe costs down here in the very very near future. The Newry savings you have made will be wiped out, and will actually become nett losses, because every bob the govt spend now is borrowed.

Uriel. wrote: »

[*]Do I believe that in the future (medium to good times) my Local business' will appreciate the business I provided to them during tough times and not rape me like they have done for all these years. NO I Don't.
Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...
So OP in response to your "heroic" call......

They may not, SOME will probably keep ripping us off - but if we actually learn to shop around (rather than just going to Tesco cause it's handy), would actually be a good lesson for most of us. Rip off merchants should be burned both now and in the future. There are good value places in the Republic, you just have to look. If we support the non-rip-off shops here, and the rip-off ones take note, then it's win-win.

Uriel. wrote: »

NO THANKS!

Totally your choice. Continue being part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

tails_naf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I was recently quoted at €2.1k by an Irish dentist for dental work.
I have no hope of being able to pay that.
I pay a lot of tax/prsi, I have private health insurance - none of it seems to be any benefit to me.

I checked out the prices in Poland/Lithuania and they are approx 1/6th the cost. Even the North is 1/2 the cost.
The fact that you get banned from the boards.ie dentistry forum for discussing foreign dentistry says it all tbh:rolleyes:

So I have to sit and suffer in silence for now, and some time next year, I will go Eastern Europe to have the work done.

In all honesty, I see Zero benefit from the taxes I pay.
I feel that the government clearly don't give a fcuk about me.
I can only hope that more people will do as I do and drive Irish dentists out of business.

Perhaps this is a bad example - because I don't actually have a choice in the matter.

I am genuinely sorry to hear this, and actually totally agree with what you are saying here.
We pay enough taxes to have free health and dental. Believe me, I am really upset at the state of our health system, and am against the privatization of the health system (and interested in what FG are suggesting...).

We need massive reform in these areas, but that will only come if we have a country to reform. We might end up with NO public health at all if we keep going the way we are, and that would be a lot worse.

So what I'm suggesting here is actually to try get us through, to the point where public health can be reformed. but we have to survive first.
And I wouldn't begrudge you going elsewhere for a necessity like dental/medical. It's general shopping I'm talking about here.

Just out of curiousity - did you shop around here? Or try the university dental programs?

ei.sdraob

tails_naf wrote: »

Totally your choice. Continue being part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

FF and People like you are the problem :mad:

It wasnt people shopping up North that pushed this country over the edge. If anything more people votting with their wallets might speedup the demise of FF and actually bring around an election. An election that we are being denied.


So continue being part of the problem and play right into FF hands

sarumite

ei.sdraob wrote: »

FF and People like you are the problem :mad:

It wasnt people shopping up North that pushed this country over the edge. If anything more people votting with their wallets might speedup the demise of FF and actually bring around an election. An election that we are being denied.


So continue being part of the problem and play right into FF hands

Sounds too much like 'cutting my nose off to spite my face' mentality if you ask me.

_Kaiser_

tails_naf wrote: »

I have seen a lot of people talk about punishing the government saying "we're off to Newry if they do x and y..", and "I'll be doing all my shopping online..", etc.

While it might seem like a nice form of revenge, we have to start thinking long term. The 100 quid saved by doing a months worth of shopping in Newry is a false economy - not only are you not saving that in reality (time, petrol, etc), but you (yes YOU) will end up paying for it 2x over.

Oh dear....

First off, it's nothing to do with "revenge" :rolleyes: - it's to do with the fact that (as already pointed out), there are significant savings to be made by shopping up North/online, not to mention greater choice.

With more and more people unemployed or struggling, it's a matter of survival! Why would you pay more here for the same goods? Pay for the inflated rents they're paying? Profit margains that are sent back to the UK anyway? Go online and do a direct comparison between Argos UK and IRL and then try and justify some of the crazy differences in pricing.

If we all commit to spending at home for the next few months, it WILL make a difference, it WILL turn the numbers a little more in our favour - and as we know these things by nature are exponential. Ireland lost over a billion last christmas alone with people going to Newry to do their shopping - imagine how much difference that would make to both local and goverment coffers, as we are now going to be paying that billion+some back in increased taxes.

Sorry, but I remember some Shopping Centre manager in the midlands (I think it was) on the RTE 6.1 News around the time as the forthcoming increase in the UK VAT rate was announced and it was all he could do not to be rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect. No mention was made of actually trying to COMPETE though.

So what I'm asking for here is people to commit to Ireland, and to our future. We should be millitant about buying Irish for as long as we can, even if it costs a little more. We should be encouraging others to do the same - make the act of going to Newry something to be somewhat ashamed of, it would help greatly.

I know this can only reach a few hundred people on boards directly - but if we alone commit to this, and commit to telling people we know to just shop locally and buy Irish this christmas, I think it will have a positive effect.

For me - I'm committing to spending every cent this christmas at home, no matter how good that price is on Amazon, or how cheap a slab of beer is in the north. Who's with me?

Sorry mate.. you're on your own on this one. Unlike you I don't have money to throw away for nothing. My money will go to the shop/company that offers the best value for my ever decreasing funds, and if that means a spin up North then that's what I'll be doing!

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd sooner chop my balls off then shop up North to be honest, and as for those tight bastads that buy their tyres online :rolleyes: Sweet Jesus, and the mongs who go up North to get their car serviced and for dental work. If it's that good up there move there :pac:

OK, here's a story for you...

Last year my Passat needed a new timing belt and full service done, so I rang around for prices:

- Main dealer in Drogheda... €850 incl a hire car for the day
- Main dealer in Enniskillen... €700 (yes Euro) with free loan car
- Main dealer in West Dublin that I bought it from... €1180!!! :eek:

Guess where I went?? I did offer both southern garages the chance to requote and while the Drogheda dealer offered to do it for €800, the other wouldn't even think of it, blaming it on his labour costs of €95 ex-VAT per hour!!

As for the tyres.. there's a guy I deal with in Ashbourne who can supply Verdestein tryes at the same price (slightly lower actually) as I can get them online, so there's my bit for the economy and supporting local business.

As Gordon Gekko once said (as part of the famous Greed is Good speech): "The new law of evolution in corporate America seems to be survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book you either do it right or you get eliminated."

Amen brother!

ei.sdraob

sarumite wrote: »

Sounds too much like 'cutting my nose off to spite my face' mentality if you ask me.

If that's what it takes to get FF out of the driving seat

The way they are going there wont be a face left, the country be a dead rotting corpse

johnboy_123

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I was recently quoted at €2.1k by an Irish dentist for dental work.
I have no hope of being able to pay that.
I pay a lot of tax/prsi, I have private health insurance - none of it seems to be any benefit to me.

I checked out the prices in Poland/Lithuania and they are approx 1/6th the cost. Even the North is 1/2 the cost.
The fact that you get banned from the boards.ie dentistry forum for discussing foreign dentistry says it all tbh:rolleyes:

So I have to sit and suffer in silence for now, and some time next year, I will go Eastern Europe to have the work done.

In all honesty, I see Zero benefit from the taxes I pay.
I feel that the government clearly don't give a fcuk about me.
I can only hope that more people will do as I do and drive Irish dentists out of business.

Perhaps this is a bad example - because I don't actually have a choice in the matter.

Its not just dentists. Bus fairs, Train fares, ESB, GAS, The main shop tesco, dunnes, supervalue have all increased prices again. I see a few deals here and there but in the main the prices are at the same level...

So at a time when we are all going to be down significantly in our wallets I say get value where ever you can and the O.Ps argument about how its taking taxes away from the gov...Well good enough as the cnuts are spending it on an over inflated public service and bailing out banksters...So I think I would rather get my monies worth for once...Sorry but your arguing to the MOB IMO

djpbarry

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm not missing the point at all, the OP has conceded that there is a price differential but also mentioned that folk should consider the time and expense in getting to the North, the differential is then much smaller.

But I’m not just talking about shopping up north, I’m talking about shopping in general. If I can buy something online for half the cheapest price I can find in an Irish store, why the hell should I pay way over the odds to said store-owner? Sure, some of my money will leave the country, but it will more than likely stay within the EU. As we are in a single market, what’s good for the EU is, in general, good for Ireland.

tails_naf wrote: »

I said buy Irish, but shop around.

You’re advocating protectionism. We tried that for about 60 years in Ireland – it was an unmitigated disaster. If everyone buys Irish and Irish businesses are hence sheltered from external market forces, where is the incentive for Irish businesses to become more competitive? Being able to compete in Ireland isn’t going to save Irish businesses – it’s far too small an economy. They have to accept that they are competing in a global market, or an EU one at least.

spank_inferno

Nationalism = Overrated
Patriotism = Overrated

What matters is doing best for you and yours.
If that means your hard earned dosh gets spent in the UK then thats perfectly fine.

Its not fair or reasonable for this forum to pass judgement on those who decide to spend money in northern Ireland, after all its their right to do so.

For those who insist on arguing that tolerating a higher cost of living is somehow patriotic, I will argue that this country & government should be working for its citizens, not the other way around.

This government frankly does not give 2 f**ks about you or your family, their actions prove this.

Do what you feel is best, but dont judge others who feel differently.
This country has long ceased being sovereign, so patriotism can be left at the door.

tails_naf

ei.sdraob wrote: »

FF and People like you are the problem :mad:

It wasnt people shopping up North that pushed this country over the edge. If anything more people votting with their wallets might speedup the demise of FF and actually bring around an election. An election that we are being denied.


So continue being part of the problem and play right into FF hands

No it wasn't people shopping up north that cause this mess - I never said that.
People seem to be going out of their way to turn what I am saying on it's head!

I'd love if only the people that CAUSED the problem were required to fix it - but unfortunately that won't be the case.

speeding up FFs demise by crashing the economy will speed up the demise of the nation, and you and me will pay for it.

FF need to pay, and will pay at the next election (even if it is overdue, the will pay). I'm not playing into their hands, I'm trying to ensure I play my part (however small) in doing something about getting this place back on track. and that includes helping the economy where I can, as well as VOTING and ensuring FF are well and truly trashed.

But fixing the economy and thashing FF cannot be done by the same action, they have to be done seperately. One in the voting booths, and the other in the shops

dcr22B

Sorry OP,

I have my reasons for heading up North every 6 weeks and they're straightforward.

Petrol Costs: €12
Savings on each box of 8 x dog food pouches I purchase: €1.50
Number of boxes purchased: 8

I've broken even already before I make savings of over €100 on clothes on a €300 spend and for a €400 outlay on the shopping for those 6 weeks, I save at least €50 after comparing the items online with Tesco from my receipt.

My wife and I both pay taxes at the higher rate and have a €260k mortgage to service so I'll make no apologies for going to where I seek the best value. It didn't take long for prices to come tumbling down in supermarkets in the South once they became aware how much of a threat cross-Border shopping meant to them.

tails_naf

spank_inferno wrote: »

Nationalism = Overrated
Patriotism = Overrated

What matters is doing best for you and yours.

That is exactly why I'm suggesting this. So I can have some kind of reasonable future for my 2 yr old daughter and our family as a whole.

spank_inferno wrote: »

If that means your hard earned dosh gets spent in the UK then thats perfectly fine.

Its not fair or reasonable for this forum to pass judgement on those who decide to spend money in northern Ireland, after all its their right to do so.

Totally agree - it is up to everyone to spend how they wish.
I'm just saying we could spend the same amount down here, and help ourselves a little bit.

spank_inferno wrote: »

For those who insist on arguing that tolerating a higher cost of living is somehow patriotic, I will argue that this country & government should be working for its citizens, not the other way around.

Again, I agree. However, if the country sinks, where will we be then. Can't we at least TRY do something, rather than pushing the blame around? And doing something includes demanding during the canvassing the next lot we vote in do visible things to fix the system.

spank_inferno wrote: »

This government frankly does not give 2 f**ks about you or your family, their actions prove this.

Do what you feel is best, but dont judge others who feel differently.
This country has long ceased being sovereign, so patriotism can be left at the door.

All I'm saying it don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. the Govt stinks, are horrible, wasteful, selfish, shower. But if we let the country go to send them a message, I think we'll be sorry.

No one has to agree with me, I welcome the debate. I just suggested something we COULD do, that I for one WILL do, so I can at least say I tried to do something.

Can you commit to at least trying to do something, if not this? To save what's left of this country and NOT this governement?

Uriel.

tails_naf wrote: »

Our you might survive, and live in misery.
All jokes aside, is there any room in your heart/head for the next generation at all? Or other people around you at all? Or even yourself if you don't pop your cloggs in the next 10-20 years?

At the moment, I am more worried about myself, friends and family than "the next generation".

tails_naf wrote: »

I very much doubt going to Newry is for life's essentials..if you are that tight money wise that you might die, then Newry won't save you, your spending is doing you in. How much do you think you are putting away today with your Newry shop?

To be honest, I do 90% of my yearly essential shop in the South, but I won't give up the opportunity to make significant savings in the North from bulk purchases (e.g. Christmas time).

I make very little "non-essential puchases" in the South. I have made signifcant savings over the years making online purchases from other EU and indeed non EU Countries. For example, in the past 3 - 5 years I have purchased about 2 or 3 presents (e.g. Christmas, birthdays etc..) in bricks and mortar Irish stores.

The significant savings I make allows me to spend more on essentials, or pay more off my mortgage or put it away for a rainy day etc...One example, 3 weeks ago I went in to price a load of gear I need for a sport I am involved in. Checked a few stores (all within a €20 of each other on price). Cheapest i could get was €180 for the gear (and not all of it was the brand or type I wanted). Bought the same gear (without sacrificing on the brands I wanted) from England (online) for €123.45 (full conversation charge including delivery). Saving almost €60 in one go. Why would I pay the extra €60, seriously?

tails_naf wrote: »

By the way, there is a subtle point - I'm not saying that spending more down here will cause you savings in the future.
I
'm saying that SAVING this week up there, will cause you very severe costs down here in the very very near future. The Newry savings you have made will be wiped out, and will actually become nett losses, because every bob the govt spend now is borrowed.

Severe costs are coming down the line and none of it is due to me.

tails_naf wrote: »

They may not, SOME will probably keep ripping us off - but if we actually learn to shop around (rather than just going to Tesco cause it's handy), would actually be a good lesson for most of us. Rip off merchants should be burned both now and in the future. There are good value places in the Republic, you just have to look. If we support the non-rip-off shops here, and the rip-off ones take note, then it's win-win.

If you can mobilise 90% of the population then you may have a point. But i doubt you can.

tails_naf wrote: »

Totally your choice. Continue being part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

I am not part of the problem, but thanks anyway.

tails_naf

dcr22B wrote: »

My wife and I both pay taxes at the higher rate and have a €260k mortgage to service so I'll make no apologies for going to where I seek the best value. It didn't take long for prices to come tumbling down in supermarkets in the South once they became aware how much of a threat cross-Border shopping meant to them.

My whole argument is that the taxes you pay (especially you on the higher rate), will actually cancel out these savings if we go into a long term economic black hole. If they take 2 grand off you and your wife in extra taxes a year, for the next 20 years....that will be a lot of trips to Newry...

If, somehow we could bring this country our of the black-hole a few years earlier, then its good for us all.

Saadyst

tails_naf wrote: »

No it wasn't people shopping up north that cause this mess - I never said that.
People seem to be going out of their way to turn what I am saying on it's head!

I'd love if only the people that CAUSED the problem were required to fix it - but unfortunately that won't be the case.

speeding up FFs demise by crashing the economy will speed up the demise of the nation, and you and me will pay for it.

FF need to pay, and will pay at the next election (even if it is overdue, the will pay). I'm not playing into their hands, I'm trying to ensure I play my part (however small) in doing something about getting this place back on track. and that includes helping the economy where I can, as well as VOTING and ensuring FF are well and truly trashed.

But fixing the economy and thashing FF cannot be done by the same action, they have to be done seperately. One in the voting booths, and the other in the shops

Actually, shopping where it's best for you as a consumer, will help to remove inefficiencies, uncompetitive practices and bloat from the Irish economy .

Subsidising or providing charity to companies / business, just because they are Irish... will cause much needed changes in the economy to stall.

Ireland needs to learn how to become competitive. That's not going to happen if you keep supporting Irish business, for no other reason than because they are Irish.

If they are cheaper, faster, more effective, provide a better service, or any combination of factors that make it more sense for you to purchase from them as a consumer - then go for it. That will help to support the RIGHT businesses, those who have adapted and changed their model to service YOU best.


Or to try it another way, imagine if a similar "campaign" was launched in other countries - "Let's not buy any other products than our own" - I think Ireland will suffer more.

dcr22B

The savings that I am making are going straight into a tailored savings account where I can maximise the funds in preparation for this black hole (of which I had nothing to do with its creation) arriving. I'm hopefully futureproofing myself now from any shocks that will occur in the near future.

I spend a lot of my earnings this side of the border and I still do a weekly shop of €30-40 for the items that are still actually good value and/or perishable so please don't judge me on the fact that I choose to try to safeguard my family's future (no kids yet but hopefully soon) by maximising my earning's potential while I have the opportunity before these draconian tax cuts come in.

Who knows it might be unfeasible for me to go shopping up North once the UK's new VAT regime comes in on 1 January but for now, I'm going to stick to what I believe is in my best interests. Lord knows our elected representatives have done that for themselves for long enough!

flutered

i recently bought a chicken house on line from the uk, my cc charge said 184 euro, inc delivery, which was £25, the same house is advertised on done deal for 220 euro + 25 euro delivery, i rest my case.

ZYX

flutered wrote: »

i recently bought a chicken house on line from the uk, my cc charge said 184 euro, inc delivery, which was £25, the same house is advertised on done deal for 220 euro + 25 euro delivery, i rest my case.

Your case being that chicken houses are cheaper when bought from the UK.

tails_naf

Uriel. wrote: »

Severe costs are coming down the line and none of it is due to me.

But they are still coming. And doing nothing will only make it worse.

For the record, it's not due to me either:
I have always worked, pay tax (PAYE), never took any SW, built a house only when I could afford it, and did a huge amount of the work on it myself to keep costs down - rather than borrow. I did not buy to invest or turn a quick profit in a market I didn't fully understand, etc etc.

Yet I'll still be paying for it just as much as you. I've accepted that. But I've also committed myself to trying to dig myself (as much as the nation) out of it, as I don't trust the govt to do it properly. I've also committed myself to demanding action from the next lot that go in.

I started this thread to try encourage people to do something too, even if they are NOT AT FAULT, like me.

just my 2c (1c after 50% tax..)

johnboy_123

tails_naf wrote: »

That is exactly why I'm suggesting this. So I can have some kind of reasonable future for my 2 yr old daughter and our family as a whole.


Totally agree - it is up to everyone to spend how they wish.
I'm just saying we could spend the same amount down here, and help ourselves a little bit.



Again, I agree. However, if the country sinks, where will we be then. Can't we at least TRY do something, rather than pushing the blame around? And doing something includes demanding during the canvassing the next lot we vote in do visible things to fix the system.



All I'm saying it don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. the Govt stinks, are horrible, wasteful, selfish, shower. But if we let the country go to send them a message, I think we'll be sorry.

No one has to agree with me, I welcome the debate. I just suggested something we COULD do, that I for one WILL do, so I can at least say I tried to do something.

Can you commit to at least trying to do something, if not this? To save what's left of this country and NOT this governement?

Listen all who are bashing the O.P she/he is just trying to be optimistic...but unfortunately the argument of the country going down the swanny has already sailed...We will be ruled by Euro/IMF within the next 6 months so my advice is to go up north make your savings and enjoy what might be your last enjoyable xmas...

davoxx

tails_naf wrote: »

My whole argument is that the taxes you pay (especially you on the higher rate), will actually cancel out these savings if we go into a long term economic black hole. If they take 2 grand off you and your wife in extra taxes a year, for the next 20 years....that will be a lot of trips to Newry...

If, somehow we could bring this country our of the black-hole a few years earlier, then its good for us all.

ERR No .. i'm pretty sure the taxes I pay are used to pay back the banks??

What will save us is all those people who have huge disposable incomes, rather than hoarding it, or investing it .. is if they pumped it back into the economy .... but how? well there is no way really .. that is why the poor pay and the prices rise.

I think we should all hold on for better value, and if that means going north ... so be it. You don't see Dell sticking around when the wages were cheaper elsewhere?? You don't see banks giving customers money back when they were making millions?? you don't see rich people not haggling for the best deal (in my experience they are the most likely to shop around, as they have time to) ..

I think to really sort this we need to:

1. Lower vat, introduce minimum taxes that can never be written off.
2. Raise road tax on all cars by 100 quid, remove cost for the first nct attempt (this will drive the second hand car trade which means more work for those involved and the cost for nct will be absorbed by road tax).
3. Increase road tax bands based on current car value? or make big engine cars pay more? There i no reason why 5 litre car should not pay 5l times road tax compared to a 1l ... we just can not afford a nice shiny bmw 750 .. otherwise we'd all live with the road tax and petrol costs.
4. Force owners of investment properties to do them up or sell them.
5. Tax unused farm land .. they should be growing or give to those that want to grow .. not hoarded till you can build houses on them.
6. Empty build owned by nama ... finish them off with help from those on sw, and rent them out cheap to charities, start-ups, students .... better than being empty.
7. Since car insurance is compulsory, buy out quinn (like we did for pmpa which we are still paying for) and set up state insurance .. the government will make millions.

ZYX

Huggies Superdry Economy pack, Size 4 56 pack in Sainsburys £9.98 (€11.76)
In tesco Ireland it costs €9.00. (Neither is on special offer)I rest my case :rolleyes:

tails_naf

johnboy_123 wrote: »

Listen all who are bashing the O.P she/he is just trying to be optimistic...

Thats it in a nutshell. I'm actually somewhat surprised by the pessimism and resistance to doing anything on here. Other sites I frequent (admittedly not Irish sites, more US based) are more open to call to arms on certain issues, and have actually gotten things done as a result.

Someone said I was arguing with the MOB, and it does feel like that.

If an Irish Obama did come along, I'd say the same MOB would turn on him too, and ridicule him and his quixotic ideas, and then go vote for the healy-raes, that will fix a pothole, but not the country

Scarab80

Uriel. wrote: »

Severe costs are coming down the line and none of it is due to me.

Of course it's due to you, by shopping outside the country you are reducing irish GNP and tax take therefore taxes must be raised to compensate. 65% of GNP in 2009 was spent on personal consumption.

Dannyboy83

tails_naf wrote: »

I am genuinely sorry to hear this, and actually totally agree with what you are saying here.

Thank You

It's general shopping I'm talking about here.

I can't shop in the North anyway, I live in Cork so it wouldn't make any sense.
But I have nothing against people who do.
I think it's short sighted for a public servants do it, but it's their money and they are entitled to do what they like.
It's still being spent within the EU.

The main thing I want to see is the end of this government and this grossly unfair system.

Just out of curiousity - did you shop around here? Or try the university dental programs?

Indeed I did.
I just see it as another nail in the coffin of 'upside-down' Ireland
i.e.
Those who dependant on the state are beneficiaries.
Those who are keeping the state going, are losers, in virtually every aspect.

None of the tax I pay benefits me.
I have zero dependence on any public sector organisation.
I pay a levy on my health insurance, but there is no risk equalisation on my car insurance.
I pay a levy for the health service - which I am never entitled to benefit from.
My partner is not entitled to social welfare since we co-habit so we've lived from my salary for over 2 years.
My partner is doing a FAS course and is not entitled to a cent, despite working and paying taxes for years while Irish people living at home with their payments who have never worked get alcohol money every week.
This is wrong.


I consider it insulting that a relative of mine in the public sector is earning the same wage, after 1 year, as it has taken me 6 - despite the fact that I work longer hours with no flexi time, with less holidays, in a more difficult job, in an export industry. (and I earn rather well for position compared to fellow colleagues!)
This is wrong.

I consider it insulting that classmates who literally dossed their way through school, then joined the guards & earn twice what I earn and have two houses while I have none.
This is wrong.

I find it insulting that a relative who was on twice my wage the first day out of college, now lives with full benefits, rent allowance, medical card, the works - despite the fact he could take a guaranteed job in Australia if he wanted, but he has it so good here, why bother, where is the incentive?
This is wrong.

The point is, it's my tax/prsi/vat money and the money of people like me which is paying for all of this, and none of us are benefiting from it.
And they want even more tax from us to prop it up!

Then with the few breadcrumbs we have left - they want us to spend it locally, to the rip off merchants, so they can take 21% of the pitiful remainder and use it to prop up the corrupt system which is screwing us.

The very reason that we are in such a catastrophic position with our sovereign debt - is not because of lack of income - it is because of uncontrolled & wasteful spending.

I don't mind paying European taxes for European services - but I expect I will have to emigrate to ever avail of that.
Instead we pay Irish taxes for NO services.

In 21st century Ireland, those who are responsible suffer.

If you want honesty, I am cheerleading the destruction of Ireland.
I am delighted that bond rates are unsustainable.
I am thrilled that we can no longer borrow to keep this corrupt and grossly unfair system going.

Because when it all comes crashing down - they have to make a new, fairer system. And if they don't - I won't be hanging around here to fund it.

tails_naf

flutered wrote: »

i recently bought a chicken house on line from the uk, my cc charge said 184 euro, inc delivery, which was £25, the same house is advertised on done deal for 220 euro + 25 euro delivery, i rest my case.

I priced an underfloor heating system (components), for 2400 sterling in the north + 100 delivery.

I bought the same system (slightly better thermostats) in Dublin (of all places!), after haggling, for 2500 euro. With the exchange rate at the time, I came out 200+ ahead, and a better product, and aftersales service which was good when I needed it.

If your hen house ever needs heating..let me know

Uriel.

Scarab80 wrote: »

Of course it's due to you, by shopping outside the country you are reducing irish GNP and tax take therefore taxes must be raised to compensate. 65% of GNP in 2009 was spent on personal consumption.

I shop outside of Ireland because I get better value for money than what is offered by a lot of irish companies, selling the items I want/need.

VAT is also an issue and the squander of exchequer revenue.

Take a look at my example - €60 saving by buying a few items of training gear from the Uk compared to Ireland. (some of the items in the order from the UK where better quality than the ones I would get here).

There is no way there should be that kind of price differential here. I am sorry, but I am not going to apply the lube and bend over while corporate and political Ireland rapes me.