Aer Lingus vs other Legacy Airlines

dudara

I've been flying all over Europe recently for work purposes and within Europe, my main two choices have been KLM and Lufthansa as a lot of my flights originate from FRA or AMS.

My god, but these two airlines beat the pants off Aer Lingus. Free snacks and drinks, comfortable planes with reasonable space, pleasant cabin crew and more importantly, cheaper than Aer Lingus.

I'm struggling to understand what market Aer Lingus are chasing. My DUB > AMS flights have increased dramatically in price over the last few months, but they still act like a budget airline. I'm a Gold Circle Elite member, but I've received flip all benefit (other than lounge access). In short, I believe that they are a very confused airline.

Can anyone offer any insight into Aer Lingus' current strategy? Where are they trying to position themselves?

(Just like to add that in general I am reasonably satisfied with Aer Lingus, the staff are pleasant, service is usually fine).

FlutterinBantam

In my opinion,EI are in a process of change from trying to be a rock bottom budget airline to something above that.

Their cost base cannot support an outright budget scenario and their route structure and operational network doesn't lend itself to that model.

I would feel that they are trying to pitch themselves at a level which might attract the slightly more discerning customer where cost is not the overriding decision maker and integrated service with connecting carriers is important.

matching that scenario to the current cost base ,I feel , is whats going on right now.

Other legacy airlines such as you mentioned always were good,reliable and cost effective.

Like the rest of Ireland ,Aer Lingus is coming to grips with the false economic era of the last ten years where money was thrown at every problem, and now the toothpaste has to be put back into the tube.

I wish them well.

Fratton Fred

dudara wrote: »

I've been flying all over Europe recently for work purposes and within Europe, my main two choices have been KLM and Lufthansa as a lot of my flights originate from FRA or AMS.

My god, but these two airlines beat the pants off Aer Lingus. Free snacks and drinks, comfortable planes with reasonable space, pleasant cabin crew and more importantly, cheaper than Aer Lingus.

I'm struggling to understand what market Aer Lingus are chasing. My DUB > AMS flights have increased dramatically in price over the last few months, but they still act like a budget airline. I'm a Gold Circle Elite member, but I've received flip all benefit (other than lounge access). In short, I believe that they are a very confused airline.

Can anyone offer any insight into Aer Lingus' current strategy? Where are they trying to position themselves?

(Just like to add that in general I am reasonably satisfied with Aer Lingus, the staff are pleasant, service is usually fine).

At the moment they are getting away with charging premium rates because they are still perceived to be an upmarket carrier. Soon everyone will come to realise that they are Ryanair with allocated seating and they will have to charge accordingly.

FlutterinBantam

Fratton Fred wrote: »

At the moment they are getting away with charging premium rates because they are still perceived to be an upmarket carrier. Soon everyone will come to realise that they are Ryanair with allocated seating and they will have to charge accordingly.

They offer a lot more than Ryanair, Fred in fairness.

Connectability, lounges, long haul flights,allocated seating to name a few.

Not much more indeed, but FR with allocated seating they are not.

dudara

Fratton Fred wrote: »

At the moment they are getting away with charging premium rates because they are still perceived to be an upmarket carrier.

I would disagree - right now I perceive them to be towards the budget carrier range of the market. Upmarket carriers don't make customers pay for trolley service and squeeze them like sardines.

However, their pricing is more towards the upmarket carrier range. They still retain some of the trappings of an elite carrier, such as a loyalty scheme and lounges, but their offerings there aren't great.

I really would like to see Aer Lingus establish themselves somewhere closer to their original upmarket status. I think there is a genuine market to be had there. I just don't know how achievable that is with the current union stranglehold and other market forces.

markphillips

I definitely think there is a difference in the quality of service you get on Aer Lingus compared to Ryanair. I moved to Frankfurt to work in July and have been home a few times. From my experience:

-Aer Lingus have always been in and around, if not cheaper, than the price Ryanair charge for the flight
-Aer Lingus fly from actual Frankfurt airport, which is a 10 minute journey by metro and is free if you have a commuters ticket
-Ryanair fly from Frankfurt-Hahn, which is honestly just not a Frankfurt airport. It is 2 hours away! That's one hell of a commute for a flight. The bus ticket costs around 20 euro.
-I can have my seat allocated to me upon check-in, which is nice.
-There is no mad rush to get on board because of that seat allocation.
-The interior is Aer Lingus planes doesn't want you to gouge your eyes out after 30 minutes, and there are pockets in front of you for your stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ryanair and have flown them plenty of times. However, I have gotten tired of all the rushing involved with Ryanair. Aer Lingus are setting themselves out as the more relaxed airline, were you can actually enjoy your flight somewhat.

saeglopur

Was curious about the cheaper comment as I have always found Lufthansa more expensive so I decided to check out how much a one way ticket to Frankfurt (only comparable Route) is with both airlines tomorrow morning leaving at the same time.


Aerlingus: EI 650 @ 0700

Fare: 174.99
Taxes: 38.48
Total: 213.47

Lufthansa LH 983 @ 0650

Fare: 207.00
Taxes: 53.93
Total: 260.93

Also checked a random date in January (18th)

Aer Lingus: EI 650 @ 1620

Fare: 0.99
Discount: -0.49
Taxes: 38.48
Total: 38.98

Lufthansa LH983 @ 0655

Fare: 44.00
Taxes: 24.93
Total: 68.93

I know its not always fair to compare prices directly as they are slightly different products and fares tend to vary depending on seats sold on a given flight but just thought it might add to the debate

dudara

markphillips wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I love Ryanair and have flown them plenty of times. However, I have gotten tired of all the rushing involved with Ryanair. Aer Lingus are setting themselves out as the more relaxed airline, were you can actually enjoy your flight somewhat.

I agree with you - however I think other airlines like KLM and Lufthansa make Aer Lingus look budget.

markphillips

saeglopur wrote: »

Was curious about the cheaper comment as I have always found Lufthansa more expensive so I decided to check out how much a one way ticket to Frankfurt (only comparable Route) is with both airlines tomorrow morning leaving at the same time.


Aerlingus: EI 650 @ 0700

Fare: 174.99
Taxes: 38.48
Total: 213.47

Lufthansa LH 983 @ 0650

Fare: 207.00
Taxes: 53.93
Total: 260.93

Also checked a random date in January (18th)

Aer Lingus: EI 650 @ 1620

Fare: 0.99
Discount: -0.49
Taxes: 38.48
Total: 38.98

Lufthansa LH983 @ 0655

Fare: 44.00
Taxes: 24.93
Total: 68.93

I know its not always fair to compare prices directly as they are slightly different products and fares tend to vary depending on seats sold on a given flight but just thought it might add to the debate

I'm flying with them on that route to DUB next week! It worked out an extra 20 euro, but that includes a free beer, sandwich and 1 piece of checked in luggage.

I think they are more pricey than other airlines from DUB because they carry mainly people flying elsewhere that are connecting at FRA, whereas Aer Lingus carry mostly O&D pax.

View Profile

Ryanair: FR1948 @ 16:45 (Tomorrow)

Fare: 99.99 EUR
Online Check-In: 5.00 EUR
Taxes / Fees: 38.48 EUR
Total Price: 143.47 EUR

Ryanair: FR1948 @10.40 (Jan 18th)
Fare: 12.00 EUR
Online Check-In: 0.00 EUR
Taxes / Fees: 0.00 EUR
Total Price: 12.00 EUR

With that saving I could buy a six pack of beer and some smoked salmon in Beshoffs!

Lapin

dudara wrote: »

Can anyone offer any insight into Aer Lingus' current strategy?

Unlike the other three carriers mentioned in this thread thus far (Lufthansa, KLM and Ryanair), Aer Lingus are held to ransom by their unions to the greatest extent.

It is therefore impossible to offer an insight into any Aer Lingus strategy, as this will ultimately be determined by the vested interests of these unions.

The strategy of the unions takes precedence over the strategy of the airline or the considerations of passengers.

Until this is addressed, Aer Lingus will continue to suffer in any attempts to compete with other flag carriers on an equal footing, or take on the low cost airlines.

Smellsofsoap

Lapin wrote: »

Unlike the other three carriers mentioned in this thread thus far (Lufthansa, KLM and Ryanair), Aer Lingus are held to ransom by their unions to the greatest extent..........

.............It is therefore impossible to offer an insight into any Aer Lingus strategy, as this will ultimately be determined by the vested interests of these unions.

Are you aware of the fact that EI are currently in the process of a company wide restructuring plan called Greenfield. It is about 50% done. The changes enacted under the plan so far have allowed EI to go from losing 95M in 2009 to a probable profit of 10M+ for 2010.

This plan was mutually agreed with ALL the EI staff union groups. This plan entailed the biggest change to EI since 1994. It aimed to reduce staff numbers by approx 10%, with a targeted reduction in staff salaries, a company wide payfreeze for 2 years and increasing productivity by 15-20%. Strange that the unions in EI actually supported it, don't you think?

The Greenfield plan will reduce the EI ASK cost from E3.96 to E3.30. To compare, Air Berlin have an ASK cost of E3.70 while the Easyjet figure is E3.10.

EI are not KLM/LH/BA, neither are they FR. They are going for a different market. Expect EI to go down the JetBlue/Virgin America/Virgin Blue route in a few years. Basic fares with lots of optional extras for the pax who don't mind paying for these extras.

saeglopur

View Profile wrote: »

Ryanair: FR1948 @ 16:45 (Tomorrow)

Fare: 99.99 EUR
Online Check-In: 5.00 EUR
Taxes / Fees: 38.48 EUR
Total Price: 143.47 EUR

Ryanair: FR1948 @10.40 (Jan 18th)
Fare: 12.00 EUR
Online Check-In: 0.00 EUR
Taxes / Fees: 0.00 EUR
Total Price: 12.00 EUR

With that saving I could buy a six pack of beer and some smoked salmon in Beshoffs!

I was waiting for the Ryanair comparison. I didnt include them for 2 reasons:

1. They dont fly to Frankfurt Airport
2. They are not a legacy airline

Fratton Fred

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

They offer a lot more than Ryanair, Fred in fairness.

Connectability, lounges, long haul flights,allocated seating to name a few.

Not much more indeed, but FR with allocated seating they are not.

i would agree with that to an extent, but for the average point to point flyer, there isn't a great deal there that makes you want to pay a premium. Especially now they seem to offer less legroom than ryanair on a lot of their shorter flights.

saeglopur

Fratton Fred wrote: »

i would agree with that to an extent, but for the average point to point flyer, there isn't a great deal there that makes you want to pay a premium. Especially now they seem to offer less legroom than ryanair on a lot of their shorter flights.

Less legroom????? I thought EI's seat pitch on an a320/21 was 32" to Ryanair's 737 30".

Anyway i thought this thread was about comparing EI with other legacy airlines where passengers are willing to pay a premium for central airports etc.

View Profile

Not to harp on about EI/FR but I recently flew Aer Lingus down to Italy. Now I fly Ryanair about 4 times every week so I was curious to see the difference, especially as I havnt flown Aer Lingus in 2 years.

Boarding was peaceful, pleasant and unrushed. Seat was comfier, head rest was much softer and you can bend it upwards to support your head. The seat reclined. Leg room was no different however.
The cabin itself was much easier on the eye. Big,big,big difference was the PA's. No loud annoying announcements by the CC trying to force poxy scratch cards, pannini, calendars, perfume, bus tickets, callcards....etc down your throat. This actually enabled to me to get in a kip!
The clientele aboard seems to be quite different too. Less shouting annoying teenagers, more adults reading broadsheets and sipping wine quietly.

Now if the Ryanair ticket cost say €80 oneway, i'd happily pay €110 for the EI experience, but thats all!
:cool: