Can I join more than 1 party?

fe1ready

I decided I wanted to join a party but I wasn't sure which one as they are all pretty similar. So I joined 2 of them and now I'm wondering what, if any problems will arise?

DrumSteve

unless there are illegal organisations I cant see it being a problem... unless the articles of entry into one prohibit your entry into another.

hallelujajordan

I'm sure there are no legal problems with you belonging to two parties, however ideologically speaking the only two parties I imagine are close enough together for you to join both are FF and FG . .

In principle, if you want to have an influence, I would suggest that you focus all of your energies on one party . .

Victor

DrumSteve wrote: »

unless the articles of entry into one prohibit your entry into another.

I agree, most parties don't accept members of other parties.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Lockstep

It's standard fare for Irish/British political parties.


If you really want to join more than 1, I'm sure there'll be no problems (unless someone finds out) but most will kick you out if they find out.

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

If you really want to join more than 1, I'm sure there'll be no problems (unless someone finds out) but most will kick you out if they find out.

That's because they can't count you as a member if you are part of another group as well.

fe1ready

Can I inform one of them that I want to revoke my membership with them?

Amhran Nua

fe1ready wrote: »

Can I inform one of them that I want to revoke my membership with them?

Yes.

Lockstep

Amhran Nua wrote: »

That's because they can't count you as a member if you are part of another group as well.

How does that work?

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

How does that work?

Its one of the rules when setting up a party or maintaining a record of party memberships, I'm not sure if its the Dáil registrar or some other legislation.

Lockstep

It's not mentioned in the Electoral Act

santiago

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Lol ,so OP its a good politician already.
He's telling lies already .At least to the second Party that he joined!

deise go deo

Shhhhh, they are not lies, they are strategic facts.:D

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

It's not mentioned in the Electoral Act

Yeah, the Dáil clerk mentioned it to us when we were setting up originally. That's why you'll see a checkbox in all the signup forms for new groups, where they have them, stating "I am not a member of any other political party". You can contact the clerk if you want to sure, Kieran.Coughlan [at] Oireachtas.ie.

Lockstep

It's a pretty common thing to have for political parties (it's part of the SNP, LibDem and Labour Party Constitutions in Britain, as well as Irish political parties)
I'd say it's more to do with fears of infiltration (which the SP/Militant Tendency are good at) than concrete legislation.

Havn't seen any mention of it at all for setting up a political party: no mention of it for Citizen's Information either.

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'd say it's more to do with fears of infiltration (which the SP/Militant Tendency are good at) than concrete legislation.

You think a declaration of party membership would stop the likes of the SWP?

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Havn't seen any mention of it at all for setting up a political party: no mention of it for Citizen's Information either.

Did you contact the Dáil clerk, because that's where we got the information? Also I admit to a certain curiousity here - are you a secret member of every political party in Ireland?

fe1ready

I am a little confused since one party required I pay a fee to join and the other did not. I did pay, so now I feel as though I am locked in until I send them notice of my withdrawal from their party.

Lockstep

Amhran Nua wrote: »

You think a declaration of party membership would stop the likes of the SWP?

No, but it does give them a valid pretext to expel you if you're found out. Labour previously had a massive problem with MT in their organization who were essentially a party within a party, so I can see where they are coming from.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Did you contact the Dáil clerk, because that's where we got the information? Also I admit to a certain curiousity here - are you a secret member of every political party in Ireland?

No, to be honest, I'd rather not waste the Dáil clerk's time for such a trivial question. I'm guessing it would be mentioned on CI or the Electoral Act if it was specifically required by law. It might be somewhere else but it would be strange for it to not be mentioned in the two main sources of information on registering a political party.

Not a secret member, but I did look at pretty much every political party (except for Fianna Fáil) when making my mind up who to join, and all the membership literature said pretty much the same thing: you can't be a member of another party when joining up

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

No, but it does give them a valid pretext to expel you if you're found out.

Having expelled several of them myself, believe me party membership is not an obstacle. There is nothing to stop people like this being unofficially affiliated with other parties while practising their entryism.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'm guessing it would be mentioned on CI or the Electoral Act if it was specifically required by law. It might be somewhere else but it would be strange for it to not be mentioned in the two main sources of information on registering a political party.

Perhaps, but I don't see any percentage in starting a fight with the Clerk over it. We were given the requirements, and that one doesn't seem out of the way or unusual.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Not a secret member, but I did look at pretty much every political party (except for Fianna Fáil) when making my mind up who to join, and all the membership literature said pretty much the same thing: you can't be a member of another party when joining up

The question was slightly tongue in cheek.

Lockstep

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Having expelled several of them myself, believe me party membership is not an obstacle. There is nothing to stop people like this being unofficially affiliated with other parties while practising their entryism.

Indeed but it offers a useful pretext for expelling them. there's nothing stopping them from expelling people for whatever reason but having a clear-cut reason for expelling someone is usually desirable in a large political party, to prevent arbitrariness.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Perhaps, but I don't see any percentage in starting a fight with the Clerk over it. We were given the requirements, and that one doesn't seem out of the way or unusual.

It doesn't seem very unusual (as it's customary among parties anyway) but it doesn't seem to be a formal requirement at any rate. Otherwise, I'm surprised it hasn't been part of the Electoral Act which is the mainstay for political party registration.

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

It doesn't seem very unusual (as it's customary among parties anyway) but it doesn't seem to be a formal requirement at any rate.

If you would like to find out how formal it is, please contact the Dáil clerk.

nuac

Have you thought thru the idea of being a member of two parties?

Come election time, both parties will be asking you to halp out e.g. canvassing.

Because of multi-seat constituencies, a member of a party could end up canvassing on different days for two different candidates.

If then your second party asks you to go canvassing, would you visit the same houses for a candidate of a second party?

When it is realised that you are in two parties, your contributions to debate at either party meeting may not recevie the high regard you would normally expect.

MagicMarker

Excuse my ignorance, but what would be the purpose of joining a political party?

Lockstep

Amhran Nua wrote: »

If you would like to find out how formal it is, please contact the Dáil clerk.

I assume this means "I can't back up my claim that it's one of the rules".

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I assume this means "I can't back up my claim that it's one of the rules".

More like I'm not your flipping research secretary. You have the man's email, paddle that keyboard. He's a public servant, its his job to respond to public inquiries pertaining to his job. That you seem to be avoiding taking this off the internet and into the real world says a lot though.

Lockstep

Amhran Nua wrote: »

More like I'm not your flipping research secretary.

If you're making a claim, the onus is on you to back it up. I can't be expected to research and substantiate your points.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

You have the man's email, paddle that keyboard. He's a public servant, its his job to respond to public inquiries pertaining to his job. That you seem to be avoiding taking this off the internet and into the real world says a lot though.

Mainly as this seems to smack of evasiveness. You made a claim and are unable to cite it yourself, and instead seek to shift the burden of proof and getting me to research your points for you.
This is pretty much the exact same tactic used by a Trot on this forum a couple of weeks ago.
When I asked him for evidence for his claim that the rich are only income taxed at 4%, I was given a link to the Revenue website and told to research it myself. Any further attempts for sources were met with "I've given you the link and you need to research it yourself. I'm not here to educate you".
I'm sure we'd agree that it's really not an honest way to debate.

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

If you're making a claim, the onus is on you to back it up. I can't be expected to research and substantiate your points.

This is all time you could be using to email the clerk.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Mainly as this seems to smack of evasiveness. You made a claim and are unable to cite it yourself, and instead seek to shift the burden of proof and getting me to research your points for you.
This is pretty much the exact same tactic used by a Trot on this forum a couple of weeks ago.
When I asked him for evidence for his claim that the rich are only income taxed at 4%, I was given a link to the Revenue website and told to research it myself. Any further attempts for sources were met with "I've given you the link and you need to research it yourself. I'm not here to educate you".
I'm sure we'd agree that it's really not an honest way to debate.

You are aware that not every piece of information on earth is live on the internet for your instant gratification? You're determined to do this whole handbags at dawn thing, it seems.

Lockstep

Amhran Nua wrote: »

This is all time you could be using to email the clerk.

Initially it felt strange contacting the Clerk as I felt guilty about wasting a Dáil clerks time over an internet argument.
Now it's more to do with your evasiveness and endless reliance on "I can't source my own points but I'll keep saying 'check with the Clerk' in an attempt to shift the burden of proof".

Amhran Nua wrote: »

You are aware that not every piece of information on earth is live on the internet for your instant gratification? You're determined to do this whole handbags at dawn thing, it seems.

If it's actually law (as you claim it is) then it would be available on Irishstatutebook.ie (assuming it's legislation which if it existed, it would almost certainly be)

Amhran Nua

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Initially it felt strange contacting the Clerk as I felt guilty about wasting a Dáil clerks time over an internet argument.
Now it's more to do with your evasiveness and endless reliance on "I can't source my own points but I'll keep saying 'check with the Clerk' in an attempt to shift the burden of proof".

Heh, there's nothing evasive about it. What I said was "I'm not sure if its the Dáil registrar or some other legislation." That you continually refuse to send an email, surely less work than continuing this increasingly pointless discussion, indicates you are more interested in handbaggery than actually answering the question, so eh, good luck with that.

Lockstep

My apologies, my previous post was extremely rude.
Just removed it there.