Please Respect Anglers!!!

mga1761

Can I ask that surfers please show a little respect to anglers that you may encounter at beaches where you surf! Myself and many of my colleagues have come across many, many situations where anglers have been setup and fishing at a particular part of various beaches, only to find some surfers later arrive and start to surf within the anglers fishing range!
(If in doubt about the anglers fishing range, please ask! Remember, anglers can be fishing anwhere from within a few yards to a distance of 100+ yards of the waters edge!).

I don't think I'm asking for too much here. In my opinion, it's down to common courtesy. If I arrived at a stretch of beach with swimmers, surfers, or other sports enthusiasts doing their thing in a particular stretch of water, the last thing I (or any of my colleagues) would do is start casting a few ounces of lead (and hooks!) in the general vacinity of those individuals!

Out of respect for those people and the fact that they were there before me/us, I/we would move to an unoccupied part of the beach where I/we would in no way interfere with those people. If talking about a small stretch of beach where partaking in our sport wasn't possible as a result of being preoccupied, we'd simply abandon the idea altogether, rather than risk (a) causing annoyance to the people already there or, even more importantly (b) causing anyone any harm.

(I'm not going to start lecturing on the pain of "accidentially" coming into contact with chemically-sharpened hooks or the danger of being hit with a few ounces of lead being cast with powerful rods - I think this should be obvious!!)

I'm fairly sure there are surfers out there that don't need to read this and are very respectful of other users of the sea. But there are some that seem completely oblivious to the points I've raised. I've come across them recently, very recently. I come across them often, very often.

The sea is a resource to be enjoyed by all that use it. It's enjoyment shouldn't be dominated by any one single group, at the expense of other groups.

Please act responsibly and respect those around you.

Regards,
Martin.

motorimporter

Completely agree with you Martin, very well put.

Many other water users also seem to have scant regard for anglers.

Agreed it's not all "surfers" showing little or no regard for anglers, but even a small minority has a real effect on the pleasure of our use of the coastline.

PeakOutput

as a new surfer i havnt encountered this problem yet and im not excusing it but it may be worth noting that there are usually very specific places on beaches were the waves are surfable and if they happen tobe were you are fishing the surfers dont actually have anywhere else to go on that beach wereas its probably possible for you to fish at another part of the beach

not excusing any particular behaviour just saying communication between both parties will probably lead to a compromise everyone is happy with

OldGuysRule

The difficulty here is that while the presence / actions of surfers may irk anglers, the actions of anglers can injure surfers.

Also, I cannot really see a situation where by a surfer (thinking of myself here) would arrive along to a spot, see good conditions and not paddle out because of anglers on the shore / rocks. I am afraid that I would just suit up and paddle out.

Just being honest

Mickeroo

OldGuysRule wrote: »

The difficulty here is that while the presence / actions of surfers may irk anglers, the actions of anglers can injure surfers.

Also, I cannot really see a situation where by a surfer (thinking of myself here) would arrive along to a spot, see good conditions and not paddle out because of anglers on the shore / rocks. I am afraid that I would just suit up and paddle out.

Just being honest

Not trying to be sarcy or funny here but assuming they were there first and you'd be in range of their hooks/fishing line, isn't that a bit lousy towards them and maybe not very smart in terms of your own safety?

rodento

I'm disgusted by this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZtZd8fE48

motorimporter

PeakOutput wrote: »

as a new surfer i havnt encountered this problem yet and im not excusing it but it may be worth noting that there are usually very specific places on beaches were the waves are surfable and if they happen tobe were you are fishing the surfers dont actually have anywhere else to go on that beach wereas its probably possible for you to fish at another part of the beach

not excusing any particular behaviour just saying communication between both parties will probably lead to a compromise everyone is happy with

Unfortunately, the underwater features on the seabed that provide surfers with good waves, are also the very features that hold fish, and hence ideal angling conditions may also be ideal surfing conditions...........surely good manners determine that whoever is there 1st should be left in peace to enjoy their hobby

OldGuysRule

I don't see this as a big issue, but as I said above, I have never and will never drive away from surf for something like this. If a spot is going off, then I am going in.

But I will agree not to surf in a river!

motorimporter

OldGuysRule wrote: »

The difficulty here is that while the presence / actions of surfers may irk anglers, the actions of anglers can injure surfers.

Also, I cannot really see a situation where by a surfer (thinking of myself here) would arrive along to a spot, see good conditions and not paddle out because of anglers on the shore / rocks. I am afraid that I would just suit up and paddle out.

Just being honest

Unfortunately this is the very attitude that we are faced with day in day out by other water users (swimmers, canoists, snorklers etc can all be as inconsiderate) when pursuing our sport



Without wanting too sound confrontational here, your reply is somewhat contradictory I'm sure you'll agree.

You say that your actions may irk anglers, yet the actions of anglers can injure surfers

Surely if you surf/swim in front of anglers who are already fishing, then in the case of injury its actually your own actions that have brought about it.

motorimporter

OldGuysRule wrote: »

I don't see this as a big issue, but as I said above, I have never and will never drive away from surf for something like this. If a spot is going off, then I am going in.

But I will agree not to surf in a river!

6oz of lead and a number of extremely sharp hooks could be coming your way :eek:

Might be wise to start wearing body/head armour

And please dont be posting complaints on the fishing forums if you get a whack from my fishing lead :rolleyes:

Oh, and feel free to surf the river you'll only find me out fishing the salt :P

jd

OldGuysRule wrote: »

I don't see this as a big issue, but as I said above, I have never and will never drive away from surf for something like this. If a spot is going off, then I am going in.

I find this attitude very discouraging. If I arrive at a beach to fish I will avoid fishing near other beach users. If we are holding a competition we try to peg a beach in such a way as to avoid inconvenience to other beach users. You are telling me that if there are people fishing it is okay to dive out between them?
As well as annoying these people you risk entangling yourself in their line (and hooks) . An angling competition was ruined for people last week when NO consideration was shown towards them by some of the surfers on the beach.

Some of the anglers that were present on the day are quite annoyed with what happened (see here )

sheesh

ok so Maybe asking you to for a bit of respect was a bit much.


could you manage not treating us like **** so?


thanks. Its interesting to see the attitude here and I have seen it repeated on beaches I have fished.

spider77

I think most surfers will agree that it depends on the beach in this case. If its a small beach, then its going to be hard to stay out of everyones way to an extent. This is made worse if the swell is up and currents are strong.

However, If its brandon bay, then there are 12 miles of beach so I totally agree in that case that us surfers should just move to the next peak if there is someone already there fishing.

I got caught in a line once:D. I was in the water first though and the fishermen started fishing near the rivermouth close to where I was ALREADY surfing.

I think we all need to have common sense and everything should be fine:)

mga1761

spider77 wrote: »

I think most surfers will agree that it depends on the beach in this case. If its a small beach, then its going to be hard to stay out of everyones way to an extent. This is made worse if the swell is up and currents are strong.
...

I don't think it's hard to stay out of everyones way! Like I said in my initial post, if there are others already there (swimmers, surfers, etc.) and the beach is small, then I simply won't fish it. Should the same logic & courtesy not apply if surfers arrive and find anglers already there first?

spider77 wrote: »

I got caught in a line once:D. I was in the water first though and the fishermen started fishing near the rivermouth close to where I was ALREADY surfing.

A responsible angler won't do this, but I suppose you'll find exceptions in every walk of society unfortunately .

spider77 wrote: »

I think we all need to have common sense and everything should be fine:)

I agree. But based on some earlier posts in this thread, common sense doesn't always prevail and your first statement above implies that you would still surf on a small beach with anglers present! Common sense?

Some folks just don't get it, do they?

Safe surfing & tight lines!
-Martin.

Petekd

It was myself who posted that original thread on SAI and looking back on it, maybe the language was a little strong but the blood was up and to say I was annoyed was an understatement. I travelled the best part of 400 miles of a round trip to fish that competition, hoping to feature it in an article in Next months Irish Angler magazine. That, and my days enjoyment went clean out the window due to sheer ignorance.

What you do when you travel through an area where anglers are fishing is scare everything away. Scared fish dont feed, angler doesnt catch fish, anglers day ruined. In a competition situation where people have travelled considerable distances, spent several hours gathering bait and even longer tying traces to have done all this work only to have some ignorant person who either doesnt know, or more to the point doesnt care is a little harder to take. We all have our interests and our passions, why do surfers think that their pursuit of pleasure takes precedence over someone elses? Its incredibly selfish and would not be tolerated in any other situation.

If a group of lads were playing pool and someone came along and decided to start playing cards on the table, do you think that would be OK? If someone were playing tennis, would it be acceptable for a group to hop into the tennis court for a kick about? Not on your life it wouldnt and I bet none of you surfer types would even entertain the idea. Why then, when you don your wetsuit and hoods does all sense of right and wrong go out the window? Its not all, I could see at the weekend some of those who genuinely had strayed too far and were indeed sorry. Some of the others deserved a kick up the arse all the same, in particular the one who told me we "had to share the sea". Sharing the sea is something I would love to do, the behaviour of those on Rossnowlagh was not "sharing the sea", it was rude, pig ignorant and mannerless. You wouldnt get away with that sort of behaviour on the street.

Notice had been given of our event and we had taken the top half of Rossnowlagh. It wasnt for the day, it was from 11am to 3 pm. Noone was surfing in that area on commencement of our comp. We, as anglers wouldnt dream of setting up to fish in front of surfers, its a crying shame we arent shown the same courtesy in return. Forget about the danger aspect from leads and hooks, its common decency that would preclude that you dont spoil another fellas day in pursuit of your own hobby.

Mickeroo

OldGuysRule wrote: »

I don't see this as a big issue, but as I said above, I have never and will never drive away from surf for something like this. If a spot is going off, then I am going in.

But I will agree not to surf in a river!

would you kayak in a river where someone is fishing though? or have a picnic on a football field during a match?

Maybe I'm picking you up wrong in that most areas are big enough that theres plenty of room to surf and fish without getting in eachothers way, but surfing in the exact spot where someone is fishing or vise versa is downright idiotic.

PeakOutput

as a surfer, so far im pretty dissapointed with the surfers attitudes

edit; but then again maybe its just one surfer

spaceHopper

Petekd wrote: »

It was myself who posted that original thread on SAI and looking back on it, maybe the language was a little strong but the blood was up and to say I was annoyed was an understatement. I travelled the best part of 400 miles of a round trip to fish that competition, hoping to feature it in an article in Next months Irish Angler magazine. That, and my days enjoyment went clean out the window due to sheer ignorance.

What you do when you travel through an area where anglers are fishing is scare everything away. Scared fish dont feed, angler doesnt catch fish, anglers day ruined. In a competition situation where people have travelled considerable distances, spent several hours gathering bait and even longer tying traces to have done all this work only to have some ignorant person who either doesnt know, or more to the point doesnt care is a little harder to take. We all have our interests and our passions, why do surfers think that their pursuit of pleasure takes precedence over someone elses? Its incredibly selfish and would not be tolerated in any other situation.

If a group of lads were playing pool and someone came along and decided to start playing cards on the table, do you think that would be OK? If someone were playing tennis, would it be acceptable for a group to hop into the tennis court for a kick about? Not on your life it wouldnt and I bet none of you surfer types would even entertain the idea. Why then, when you don your wetsuit and hoods does all sense of right and wrong go out the window? Its not all, I could see at the weekend some of those who genuinely had strayed too far and were indeed sorry. Some of the others deserved a kick up the arse all the same, in particular the one who told me we "had to share the sea". Sharing the sea is something I would love to do, the behaviour of those on Rossnowlagh was not "sharing the sea", it was rude, pig ignorant and mannerless. You wouldnt get away with that sort of behaviour on the street.

Notice had been given of our event and we had taken the top half of Rossnowlagh. It wasnt for the day, it was from 11am to 3 pm. Noone was surfing in that area on commencement of our comp. We, as anglers wouldnt dream of setting up to fish in front of surfers, its a crying shame we arent shown the same courtesy in return. Forget about the danger aspect from leads and hooks, its common decency that would preclude that you dont spoil another fellas day in pursuit of your own hobby.

Sorry you had your weekend spoiled, there will always be idiots who don't care, you get them is surfing to and we have to put up with them.

Having a rant on SAI forum or here might make you feel better but it won't solve it and I'm afraid I don't have an answer that will. For my part I'll try to say out of anglers way but in ten years of surfing I haven't had a problem so far.

You will get genuine cases where surfers set out a few hundred meters from you but drift out of position and end up in your way by accident. Try to be nice and not go off. As for what hapended in this case the guy sounds like he was out of order but going nuts at him only makes you look bad.

AnonymousPrime

I think the difficulty for surfers is that surfing conditions are so fickle (especially at this time of year).

We condition ourselves to fall at the whims of nature rather than to dictate the times and places we wish to surf. Angling aside, if we were to adopt any other approach we would never have a good day.

Placing angling back into the picture, there is an internal dilemma going on. For instance, a poster talked about a competition which was ruined by water users (presumably surfers) from 11 - 3 on a saturday. The surfers in question, if they were passionate about their sport, would have chosen the best time yielding the best conditions, knowing that it is possible not to see these conditions for a very long time after.
If the anglers ask them to stop it is at odds with the pre conditioning and mental barriers I mentioned above.

So in summary, although some of my contemporaries put it rather crudely, it is not just a question of "I'm going for my adrenalin rush no matter who gets in my way", but rather taking advantage of conditions while they are present, knowing the length of time it may take before conditions arrive again.

May I add that I have never been in competition with an angler and I do not know how I would react to such a situation.

kodute

Its never come up, but if it did I'd stay clear.

CJhaughey

Obviously some of the surfers posting here haven't travelled outside Europe.
I can think of quite a few places where acting like a dick to other surfers or anglers will get you more than a few harsh words.
Common courtesy goes a long way and if Surfers want to continue to enjoy their sport/hobby they will have to demonstrate it.
Just remember your car is still on the beach......

cpoh1

As a surfer if i turn up at my local spot and a few anglers have decided to set up shop on a decent day im going to get in the water no questions asked. Why should all other water users suffer because one group of lads want a section of the beach to themselves? Surfers, bodyboarders, kayakers and windsurfers can all co-exist in the water at the same time, why should a well known surfing beach be cleared because a couple of guys want to take over the place to themselves?

Surfers are happy to share the water with all water users - its an angling problem if their hobby is dangerous to other water users and they need space. And dont even go into the legal/civil responsibilites and liabilities if a surfer was to get injured because of an anglers actions.

As an ex lifeguard I wouldnt be slow to tell a group of a anglers to stay away from my beach during our working hours even with no bathers in the water - it means people cant get it when they are around. You cant expect all other water users to give up a stretch of beach so guys can have a fish, there's a lack of common curtosy to other water users in expecting that - especially at established surf breaks where guys have invested loads of time in the area, surfing there regularly and cleaning up the place (we would do regular beach cleans where im from). Its not surfers faults anglers cant co-exist with all other water users.

Anyway - would i get in the water. Yes and without any remorse!

rodento

Coph1 would you do the same during a fishing comp???

spaceHopper

CJhaughey wrote: »

Common courtesy goes a long way and if Surfers want to continue to enjoy their sport/hobby they will have to demonstrate it.
Just remember your car is still on the beach......

Are you saying you'll wreck a car or hurt somebody - think that's well out of order, even suggesting it is out of order.

The op made his port well but I think you just cost him the argument.

OldGuysRule

cpoh may have put it more politely than I did, but the principal still stands. I have no problem with paddling out if there are anglers at a spot.

Interesting to note the two veiled threats above from motorimporter and cjhaughey, would not have thought that the moderators would accept them.

And cjhaughey, if you are referring to my comments, I have surfed in many spots / countries on five continents over the past 16 / 18 years. I know who to respect

cpoh1

rodento wrote: »

Coph1 would you do the same during a fishing comp???

If it was at my local beach im surfing every week and no consultation was made with the local surfers before organising the event then absolutely i would.

CJhaughey

spaceHopper wrote: »

Are you saying you'll wreck a car or hurt somebody - think that's well out of order, even suggesting it is out of order.

The op made his port well but I think you just cost him the argument.

I am not saying that I will do anything, I don't surf nor am I an Angler.

BUT I have seen these things happen and worse, not here but in other countries and not even between anglers/surfers but just localism.

OldGuysRule

Common courtesy goes a long way and if Surfers want to continue to enjoy their sport/hobby they will have to demonstrate it.
Just remember your car is still on the beach......

Or what?

So you are neither surfer nor angler but you feel qualified to ride in with your advise. Thank you for your time

spaceHopper

CJhaughey wrote: »

I am not saying that I will do anything, I don't surf nor am I an Angler.

BUT I have seen these things happen and worse, not here but in other countries and not even between anglers/surfers but just localism.

If you don't surf or fish then please either make helpfull suggestions or stay out of it, but please stop lobbing in hand grenades to kick something off.

CJhaughey

Is there a rule where only anglers or surfers can use a beach?
Hmmm I seem to remember people using beaches that flew kites, kitesurfed, swam, dived and snorkled and spearfished.
Look, I am not trying to kick anything off here, It's just that I have seen situations develop that were not in anyones best interest and all because people didn't use a bit of cop-on or courtesy, similar to what has been shown here.
I'll leave it at that

kodute

Some surfers pissed off some anglers. Some anglers ask some other surfers to respect them. Some will, some won't. Thats life.

Suggesting that criminal damage will be inflicted on a surfers car however is will get a reaction, whether it was intended like that or not. Just take it easy and not jump to conclusions.

motorimporter

OldGuysRule wrote: »

cpoh may have put it more politely than I did, but the principal still stands. I have no problem with paddling out if there are anglers at a spot.

Interesting to note the two veiled threats above from motorimporter and cjhaughey, would not have thought that the moderators would accept them.

And cjhaughey, if you are referring to my comments, I have surfed in many spots / countries on five continents over the past 16 / 18 years. I know who to respect

I think you'll find my comments were posted "tongue in cheek", however your attitude towards anglers stinks, and for other surfers to acknowledge that on this thread speaks volumes.

16/18 years surfing and still no manners.............Knowing who to respect..............you havent got a clue buddy :mad:

mga1761

cpoh1 wrote: »

As a surfer if i turn up at my local spot and a few anglers have decided to set up shop on a decent day im going to get in the water no questions asked. Why should all other water users suffer because one group of lads want a section of the beach to themselves?

Would you also consider surfing if other enthusiasts (like those that swim, use jet-skis, etc) were already using a stretch of water? Surely these people also need a stretch of beach/water to themselves, for safety sake, if nothing else?

cpoh1 wrote: »

Surfers, bodyboarders, kayakers and windsurfers can all co-exist in the water at the same time, why should a well known surfing beach be cleared because a couple of guys want to take over the place to themselves?

Try answering that question from an anglers perspective: Why should a well known fishing beach be cleared because a couple of guys (surfers!) want to take over the place to themselves?

For the record, I don’t remember anyone asking that a beach be cleared, nor do I recall anyone saying that they wanted to take over any beach to themselves. All that has been requested here is that surfers respect the space that anglers occupy.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Surfers are happy to share the water with all water users - its an angling problem if their hobby is dangerous to other water users and they need space.

Surely all water users need their space? Although I’m not a surfer, common sense tells me that even two surfers in each others space could be dangerous for each of them. No?

cpoh1 wrote: »

And dont even go into the legal/civil responsibilites and liabilities if a surfer was to get injured because of an anglers actions.

I’m not a lawyer, but I’d be prepared to take my case to court if someone got injured as a result of action they took, like straying into my fishing zone.

cpoh1 wrote: »

…
You cant expect all other water users to give up a stretch of beach so guys can have a fish, there's a lack of common curtosy to other water users in expecting that –

Try substituting the word “fish” with “surf” in your statement above and read it again.
Can you see the contradiction in your argument?

cpoh1 wrote: »

… especially at established surf breaks where guys have invested loads of time in the area, surfing there regularly and cleaning up the place (we would do regular beach cleans where im from). Its not surfers faults anglers cant co-exist with all other water users.

From everything I’ve experienced (and read here), it’s not that the anglers can’t co-exist with other water users. It’s the other way around.

Also for you information, anglers do regular clean-ups and have invested hugely in their hobby, both time and money (just in case you’re under the illusion that it’s only surfers that have invested in their water sport).

cpoh1 wrote: »

Anyway - would i get in the water. Yes and without any remorse!

Your comment above is a little rich, especially coming from someone that’s prepared to mention “civil responsibilities”. From all that’s been said in earlier posts, it sounds like you’re not one of the surfers here who’s prepared to show a little respect and courtesy. Too bad…

To all the surfers that have taken some of the points onboard and can see this issue from another’s perspective, thank you.

-Martin.

motorimporter

cpoh1 wrote: »

Surfers are happy to share the water with all water users - its an angling problem if their hobby is dangerous to other water users and they need space. And dont even go into the legal/civil responsibilites and liabilities if a surfer was to get injured because of an anglers actions.

As an ex lifeguard I wouldnt be slow to tell a group of a anglers to stay away from my beach during our working hours even with no bathers in the water - it means people cant get it when they are around. You cant expect all other water users to give up a stretch of beach so guys can have a fish, there's a lack of common curtosy to other water users in expecting that - especially at established surf breaks where guys have invested loads of time in the area, surfing there regularly and cleaning up the place (we would do regular beach cleans where im from). Its not surfers faults anglers cant co-exist with all other water users.

Anyway - would i get in the water. Yes and without any remorse!

I'm both shocked and appalled at your attitiude, a life guard telling anglers they cant use a (not my)beach...........unless it is prohibited by local bye laws, anglers have just as much right to fish a beach as the man next door does to swim, walk, snorkel, surf.

What gives you the right to say...........NO FISHING

A group of 4 anglers would take up approx 80 yards on the beach, hardly a major inconvenience now is it?

Get off your high horse and show some common courtesy.

I'd hardly choose to have a picnic in the middle of my local park if there was a football match in progress now would I, so why do a small idiot minority of surfers think its acceptable to surf where anglers are already fishing.

OldGuysRule

I am not your buddy

With regards to respect, I generally respect those that do not try to limit others enjoyment / use through potential / risk of injury. A surfer will not injure an angler by surfing somewhere but anglers have the potential to injure the surfer through their use of the amenity. As has been 'highlighted' already on this thread.

Out of interest, when the anglers decided to hold their comp at a surfing beach, did they contact the local surf club, the ISA or any other representative groups? Was there any advance notice published at the beach or online advising surfers (many who may have travelled significant distances for their surf)? Just wondering how far the respect went

cpoh1

motorimporter wrote: »

I think you'll find my comments were posted "tongue in cheek", however your attitude towards anglers stinks, and for other surfers to acknowledge that on this thread speaks volumes.

16/18 years surfing and still no manners.............Knowing who to respect..............you havent got a clue buddy :mad:

A few questions:

How often do anglers fish at the beach the comp was held?
Do anglers do anything to maintain the area like surfers do?
Was the local surf club contacted regarding restricted access to the beach in question beforehand?

As far as im concerned it is total ill manners to rock up at a beach and expect all water users to give up their hobby/passion so that one group can be accomodated. Sea angling is a dangerous activity for all other water users (bathers, surfers, divers, kayakers), why should they all give up their pastime for a couple of guys looking to go fishing.

If the comp was held at a popular surfing beach that is used every weekend it was naive and silly to expect fellas to give up water time to accomodate ye. I know personally that my surfing time is restricted by working weekdays in the winter and i would never give up a surf at my home break at the weekend when its good so some random group of guys can have a fish off.

I would say judging by the anglers on here that the attitude problem lies squarly with anglers. You just cant expect to take over sections of a beach for your own private use.

cpoh1

motorimporter wrote: »

I'm both shocked and appalled at your attitiude, a life guard telling anglers they cant use a (not my)beach...........unless it is prohibited by local bye laws, anglers have just as much right to fish a beach as the man next door does to swim, walk, snorkel, surf.

What gives you the right to say...........NO FISHING

A group of 4 anglers would take up approx 80 yards on the beach, hardly a major inconvenience now is it?

Get off your high horse and show some common courtesy.

I'd hardly choose to have a picnic in the middle of my local park if there was a football match in progress now would I, so why do a small idiot minority of surfers think its acceptable to surf where anglers are already fishing.

Less of the hysterics please, this isint judge judy.

During the summer months i would not allow any anglers between my red and yellow bathing flags because as far as im concerned its a safety hazard for ALL other water users. Show some common curtosy for other water users and keep a potentially very dangerous activity away from the general public.

OldGuysRule

Martin,

A key difference between our points of view is that you are asking that surfers give up a stretch of beach / reef whatever for your activities. I, in turn, am not asking that of anglers. I am just saying that I am happy to paddle out regardless. If there is a better peak 50m away, I will head there.

That is just the way it is.

There is no offence meant here, and in answer to some of the situations posited above, surfers will generally share wave zones with other water users, there is an etiquette system in place for that.

However I do not believe that any water users should have to share the wave zone with jet skis - they are both highly dangerous and polluting.

cpoh1

mga1761 wrote: »

Would you also consider surfing if other enthusiasts (like those that swim, use jet-skis, etc) were already using a stretch of water? Surely these people also need a stretch of beach/water to themselves, for safety sake, if nothing else?


Try answering that question from an anglers perspective: Why should a well known fishing beach be cleared because a couple of guys (surfers!) want to take over the place to themselves?

For the record, I don’t remember anyone asking that a beach be cleared, nor do I recall anyone saying that they wanted to take over any beach to themselves. All that has been requested here is that surfers respect the space that anglers occupy.


Surely all water users need their space? Although I’m not a surfer, common sense tells me that even two surfers in each others space could be dangerous for each of them. No?


I’m not a lawyer, but I’d be prepared to take my case to court if someone got injured as a result of action they took, like straying into my fishing zone.



Try substituting the word “fish” with “surf” in your statement above and read it again.
Can you see the contradiction in your argument?


From everything I’ve experienced (and read here), it’s not that the anglers can’t co-exist with other water users. It’s the other way around.

Also for you information, anglers do regular clean-ups and have invested hugely in their hobby, both time and money (just in case you’re under the illusion that it’s only surfers that have invested in their water sport).


Your comment above is a little rich, especially coming from someone that’s prepared to mention “civil responsibilities”. From all that’s been said in earlier posts, it sounds like you’re not one of the surfers here who’s prepared to show a little respect and courtesy. Too bad…

To all the surfers that have taken some of the points onboard and can see this issue from another’s perspective, thank you.

-Martin.

Martin, you have made two fundamental mistakes.

1. Surfers, bodysurfers (swimmers), kayakers, windsurfers and bodyboarders all frequent the water at the same time regularly in ireland without problems. We dont need our own space we share the same lineup happily. Our sports can all co-exist in unison in the water without any clashes. Anglers cant, because of the danger they present TO ALL OTHER WATER USERS and the need for their own isolated spot on the beach. Why should all other water users suffer for a minority?

2. If you cause personal injury or damage to someone as a direct result of your actions (you own the fishing equipment and are throwing your line in the water) then you are liable for any incurred damages as a result. Take it from someone with a legal background.

cpoh1

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Martin,

A key difference between our points of view is that you are asking that surfers give up a stretch of beach / reef whatever for your activities. I, in turn, am not asking that of anglers. I am just saying that I am happy to paddle out regardless. If there is a better peak 50m away, I will head there.

Exactly Oldguysrule, surfers can happily co-exist in the water with any other water user and have never asked anglers to move on or prevented them from doing their thing. Its a bit rich to ask others to give up their passion for their own gain.

mga1761

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Martin,

A key difference between our points of view is that you are asking that surfers give up a stretch of beach / reef whatever for your activities. I, in turn, am not asking that of anglers. I am just saying that I am happy to paddle out regardless. If there is a better peak 50m away, I will head there.
...

Yes, I understand the fundamental difference. If angling caused the same type of disruption to surfing, that surfing causes to angling, I'd say you'd be prepared to ask anglers to not to fish in your immediate vicinity or you wouldn't "paddle out regardless" (dangers aside, as they don't seem to bother you?!).

I still don't see the problem in "giving up a stretch of beach" if it means others can enjoy their sport also. I've turned away from many stretches of beaches because other water users were there when I arrived.

I didn't (and still don't) have a problem with that. I do it because I feel it's the right thing to do.

-Martin.

cpoh1

mga1761 wrote: »

Yes, I understand the fundamental difference. If angling caused the same type of disruption to surfing, that surfing causes to angling, I'd say you'd be prepared to ask anglers to not to fish in your immediate vicinity or you wouldn't "paddle out regardless" (dangers aside, as they don't seem to bother you?!).

I still don't see the problem in "giving up a stretch of beach" if it means others can enjoy their sport also. I've turned away from many stretches of beaches because other water users were there when I arrived.

I didn't (and still don't) have a problem with that. I do it because I feel it's the right thing to do.

-Martin.

Martin would it be fair to say that angling causes disruption to all other water sports rather than all other water sports cause a disruption to angling? Its not just surfers that disrupt angling, due to the danger of the sport nobody else can use the water if ye are there. Because lets be fair here, surfers have never asked anyone to move down a beach and as has been pointed out surfers share the water with all other water users happily. Wed be happy to share the water with anglers too except for the dangers fishing lines pose to others. The odd one out in the group is the anglers. You have to accept that angling is potentially a dangerous sport and cant be mixed with others, while at the same time you cant expect all other water users not to use a natural resource because of a minority.

There will always be other people in the water at popular spots, you cant expect others to give that up. Thats the nature of the angling game unfortunately.

mga1761

cpoh1 wrote: »

Martin, you have made two fundamental mistakes.

1. Surfers, bodysurfers (swimmers), kayakers, windsurfers and bodyboarders all frequent the water at the same time regularly in ireland without problems. We dont need our own space we share the same lineup happily. Our sports can all co-exist in unison in the water without any clashes. Anglers cant, because of the danger they present TO ALL OTHER WATER USERS and the need for their own isolated spot on the beach. Why should all other water users suffer for a minority?

2. If you cause personal injury or damage to someone as a direct result of your actions (you own the fishing equipment and are throwing your line in the water) then you are liable for any incurred damages as a result. Take it from someone with a legal background.

(1) I don't see anyone asking all other water users to suffer. It's about sharing a resource in a responsible manner. My initial post was triggered by a few people that decided to surf directly over our lines - they strayed away from the main group of surfers who stayed well up at the other end of the beach. There seemed to be plenty of surf right along the entire beach. I failed to see the logic and sense in them surfing right where we were fishing. (I'm not referring to the competition the petekd mentioned - I wasn't at that competition so didn't specifically mention it, although I can perfectly understand their frustration).

(2) You obviously didn't read my post properly. I was referring to "their" actions - like moving into a space already occupied by my fishing gear. Regardless of your legal background and advice, if someone gets injured as a result of "their" actions, I'll take my chances in court. Just because someone may partake in a particular watersport, doesn't give them an advantage or superiority (legal or otherwise).

I hope it never comes to that. The last thing I would ever want to see is someone get injured, for whatever reason. (And no, that's not a threat, veiled or otherwise). I've often taken in my gear when surfers have strayed into my zone, simply to prevent them from injuring themselves.

The whole point of my initial post was to try to get other water users (in this case, surfers) to try to see things from an anglers perspective.

I don't know of any anglers that are out to interfere with others' enjoyment of their sport, or to ask or expect them to "suffer" in any way. We're lucky to have such a resource available to us - all of us.

I think we should all be prepared to compromise when the situation calls for it. If we (all of us, regardless of our sport) can't show compromise and common courtesy to those around us, what does that say about us?

-Martin.

spaceHopper

The fishing club took over one end of the beach and left the rest for everybody else the lads that disrupted it could easily have surfed where everybody else was but wanted a sneaky surf on their own without a crowd.

Every year we take over part of the beach for a competition, ok it's a smaller part but it's much the same thing, same with the longboard event in Lahinch or Stradhill or even Easkey left to the national and we all respect that. I've come across guys fishing on beaches (rarely) but there has always been enough space and waves for everybody. You should have enough cop on to know that a surfer stomping around in the shallows is going to spook fish and there is a risk of getting accidentally hit or limiting his casting range if you are out the back.
It they were expecting to take over the beach all the time that would be different but it’s not it’s once and a while.

cpoh1

mga1761 wrote: »

(1) I don't see anyone asking all other water users to suffer. It's about sharing a resource in a responsible manner. My initial post was triggered by a few people that decided to surf directly over our lines - they strayed away from the main group of surfers who stayed well up at the other end of the beach. There seemed to be plenty of surf right along the entire beach. I failed to see the logic and sense in them surfing right where we were fishing. (I'm not referring to the competition the petekd mentioned - I wasn't at that competition so didn't specifically mention it, although I can perfectly understand their frustration).

But the problem lies where Anglers are the only group who cant share the resource, all other water users live in harmony. Its as oldguysrule put it, we have no problem sharing the water with anglers nor have ever asked them to move on.

mga1761 wrote: »

(2) You obviously didn't read my post properly. I was referring to "their" actions - like moving into a space already occupied by my fishing gear. Regardless of your legal background and advice, if someone gets injured as a result of "their" actions, I'll take my chances in court. Just because someone may partake in a particular watersport, doesn't give them an advantage or superiority (legal or otherwise).

I hope it never comes to that. The last thing I would ever want to see is someone get injured, for whatever reason. (And no, that's not a threat, veiled or otherwise). I've often taken in my gear when surfers have strayed into my zone, simply to prevent them from injuring themselves.

If by "their actions" you mean a surfer paddling into an area where anglers are casting then you are still 100% in the wrong if when casting your line you caused damage or injury to the surfer. If i drive on the road and you crash into me, is it my fault that im now occupying the road you are on?

mga1761 wrote: »

The whole point of my initial post was to try to get other water users (in this case, surfers) to try to see things from an anglers perspective.

I don't know of any anglers that are out to interfere with others' enjoyment of their sport, or to ask or expect them to "suffer" in any way. We're lucky to have such a resource available to us - all of us.

I think we should all be prepared to compromise when the situation calls for it. If we (all of us, regardless of our sport) can't show compromise and common courtesy to those around us, what does that say about us?

-Martin.

I can see it from an anglers perspective, and sure it sucks when you cant cast/fish because of others in the water but that doesnt make it the surfers fault or anyone else in the water for that matter. They are just as entitled to be there with the caviet that their sport isint exclusive to themselves and cant be shared with all water users. Its the nature and danger of angling thats responsible for this and as much as I admire the whole compromise idea there's only one side compromising and thats all the other water users because anglers cant co-exist.

Its nothing personal or deliberate rudness of surfers who have limited time in the water (research how seldom it gets good in ireland with swell patterns, wind and tides effecting breaks) during winter months to make the most of conditions. As frustrating as it is for guys you cant blame surfers for wanting to make the most of the waves.

cpoh1

spaceHopper wrote: »

The fishing club took over one end of the beach and left the rest for everybody else the lads that disrupted it could easily have surfed where everybody else was but wanted a sneaky surf on their own without a crowd.

Every year we take over part of the beach for a competition, ok it's a smaller part but it's much the same thing, same with the longboard event in Lahinch or Stradhill or even Easkey left to the national and we all respect that. I've come across guys fishing on beaches (rarely) but there has always been enough space and waves for everybody. You should have enough cop on to know that a surfer stomping around in the shallows is going to spook fish and there is a risk of getting accidentally hit or limiting his casting range if you are out the back.
It they were expecting to take over the beach all the time that would be different but it’s not it’s once and a while.

As per my earlier post. Was the competition communicated to the local surf club? The locality in general? Do the local anglers contribute to the beach and local area? Those surf comps are run by the local surf clubs who put an enormous amount of work into the local beaches and community. When a competition is organised its not just a case of showing up at the beach - its properly planned, relevant people informed (local communites etc.) and it gives something back to the area. Im assuming this fishing comp was a case of show up on the day and drive on, something a surf comp would never do.

mga1761

cpoh1 wrote: »

But the problem lies where Anglers are the only group who cant share the resource, all other water users live in harmony. Its as oldguysrule put it, we have no problem sharing the water with anglers nor have ever asked them to move on.

If kayaking or snorkling scared away your surfboards, would you still "live in harmony" with them on the same patch of water?

cpoh1 wrote: »

If by "their actions" you mean a surfer paddling into an area where anglers are casting then you are still 100% in the wrong if when casting your line you caused damage or injury to the surfer. If i drive on the road and you crash into me, is it my fault that im now occupying the road you are on?

No, I mean once baited hooks are cast out and are fluttering away in the sea for a period of time (which they usually are) and a surfer paddles onto them, it's the action of the surfer that causes his/her own injury. No angler I've ever fished with would dream of casting out where other water users are!

cpoh1 wrote: »

I can see it from an anglers perspective, and sure it sucks when you cant cast/fish because of others in the water but that doesnt make it the surfers fault or anyone else in the water for that matter. They are just as entitled to be there with the caviet that their sport isint exclusive to themselves and cant be shared with all water users. Its the nature and danger of angling thats responsible for this and as much as I admire the whole compromise idea there's only one side compromising and thats all the other water users because anglers cant co-exist.

So not fishing an area already occupied by water users isn't compromising? We anglers do this all the time. How can you say anglers don't compromise?

cpoh1 wrote: »

Its nothing personal or deliberate rudness of surfers who have limited time in the water (research how seldom it gets good in ireland with swell patterns, wind and tides effecting breaks) during winter months to make the most of conditions. As frustrating as it is for guys you cant blame surfers for wanting to make the most of the waves.

Once again, nobody has said surfers (or other water users) shouldn't be allowed to use the water and make the most of the conditions. This is perfectly understandable. The instances giving rise to this thread are where surfers move into an area already occupied by anglers, where they have other parts of the beach to surf. Areas, by the way, that are more than adequate for other surfers.

I'm not talking about the exception that accidentially strays into a fishing zone, I'm not talking about the folks that keep to another part of the beach - I'm talking about the few that insist on surfing right where anglers are based, regardless of an abundance of space and excellent surf conditions elsewhere on the beach!!!

jd

cpoh1 wrote: »

. Im assuming this fishing comp was a case of show up on the day and drive on, something a surf comp would never do.

This particular competition had been scheduled back in 2009.

http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18843&start=20

cpoh1

mga1761 wrote: »

If kayaking or snorkling scared away your surfboards, would you still "live in harmony" with them on the same patch of water?

That doesnt happen so its irrelevant, all other ater users are grand sharing the same ocean space

mga1761 wrote: »

So not fishing an area already occupied by water users isn't compromising? We anglers do this all the time. How can you say anglers don't compromise?

As far as im concerned theres no need for any compromise from anyone. Angling is dangerous and should not be done near anyone else, if there are people at the beach using the water then its tough luck really. Angling is potentially dangerous and other water users shouldnt have to give up any space and likewise anglers shouldnt expect this. Its the same with jeskiiers, they cant simply fly around on their skis in the vicinity of other water users.

mga1761 wrote: »

Once again, nobody has said surfers (or other water users) shouldn't be allowed to use the water and make the most of the conditions. This is perfectly understandable. The instances giving rise to this thread are where surfers move into an area already occupied by anglers, where they have other parts of the beach to surf. Areas, by the way, that are more than adequate for other surfers.

I'm not talking about the exception that accidentially strays into a fishing zone, I'm not talking about the folks that keep to another part of the beach - I'm talking about the few that insist on surfing right where anglers are based, regardless of an abundance of space and excellent surf conditions elsewhere on the beach!!!

I will often take a walk down the beach to a less crowded peak when im surfing. Should i just stay amongst the crowd and keep to the group because a few anglers want to have a fish? Im happy out to share the water with them, im not asking them to leave but the fact is its a dangerous sport and cant handle others in the area.

My advice, find an empty beach and fish there, that way you wont interfere with anyone else. Or just take up surfing and share the water with the rest of us!

cpoh1

jd wrote: »

This particular competition had been scheduled back in 2009.

http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18843&start=20

It could have been scheduled amongst yerselves 10 years ago for all that matters. The problem is that none of the local communities (surf clubs, surf schools etc.) were canvassed or contacted, and the tournament wasnt highlighted in the area either. What did it even bring to the area?

jd

cpoh1 wrote: »

It could have been scheduled amongst yerselves 10 years ago for all that matters. The problem is that none of the local communities (surf clubs, surf schools etc.) were canvassed or contacted, and the tournament wasnt highlighted in the area either. What did it even bring to the area?

It was organised by the local sea angling club who are as much part of the community as "surf clubs, surf schools etc." Opens like this bring anglers from other parts of the country who spend money in the locality.

That been said, I never had any issues with surfers. However, people have been fishing on these beaches a long time before any surfers appeared, I can't see why it is so difficult for you to let people enjoy their sport in one part of the beach while you use another. Have you had any issues /conflict with anglers yourself?