Political & Economical threads in AH

My name is URL

There has already being a fleeting discussion on this issue here

At present, over half of the threads on the front page of AH are politically related. It's going to get even worse over the next couple of weeks. Any chance of setting up a temp sub-forum for these type of discussions?

I don't think a mega-thread would be a great idea for such a topic. AH is great because of the variation in threads, and it's at risk of losing its charm atm and becoming very tedious to browse. I'm sure the Politics mods wouldn't want the threads started in AH moved to their forum.

dr.bollocko

There's actually a similar thread to this running in AH also.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056084548
I agree that a megathread is not really the way to go with this one but a sub-forum would be incredibly incredibly depressing.

My name is URL

dr.bollocko wrote: »

There's actually a similar thread to this running in AH also.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056084548
I agree that a megathread is not really the way to go with this one but a sub-forum would be incredibly incredibly depressing.

Hadn't noticed that thread. I agree that it would be a depressing forum but at the minute, and no offense to you AH mods, it is a somewhat depressing forum.

LoLth

temp sub-forum? how temporary? what do we do when we decide its time for the temp forum to bid a fond farewell?

If you want to talk politics: go to the politics forum

If you want to talk economics: go to the economy forum

If you want to have a natter as if you were in a pub: go to AH

If political nattering is the flavour of the month, then so be it (I only use nattering as a way to make a disticntion between political conversation and political debate/discussion).

AH is the melting pot of boards.ie, if we start adding subfora or, spaghetti mosnter forbid!, megathreads for every popular topic we will , in effect be creating a mini boards which is exactly the reasoning against doing it for regional fora.

if there's too many threads on the same subject, then perhaps a thread merge is in order? If they are on different topics, then, for the users' ease of reference, leave them as they are and they'll float away off the first page as interest wanes. Just like the pub, pre-budget = econommics, post budget=ah! I'm in pain! pesky economics, post post budget = did you see X or Y yesterday? post post post budget= vomit of vitriol/political incorrectness all over the bar followed by shouts of "youre barred" from the bouncers.

My name is URL

LoLth wrote: »

temp sub-forum? how temporary? what do we do when we decide its time for the temp forum to bid a fond farewell?

If you want to talk politics: go to the politics forum

If you want to talk economics: go to the economy forum

If you want to have a natter as if you were in a pub: go to AH

If political nattering is the flavour of the month, then so be it (I only use nattering as a way to make a disticntion between political conversation and political debate/discussion).

AH is the melting pot of boards.ie, if we start adding subfora or, spaghetti mosnter forbid!, megathreads for every popular topic we will , in effect be creating a mini boards which is exactly the reasoning against doing it for regional fora.

if there's too many threads on the same subject, then perhaps a thread merge is in order? If they are on different topics, then, for the users' ease of reference, leave them as they are and they'll float away off the first page as interest wanes. Just like the pub, pre-budget = econommics, post budget=ah! I'm in pain! pesky economics, post post budget = did you see X or Y yesterday? post post post budget= vomit of vitriol/political incorrectness all over the bar followed by shouts of "youre barred" from the bouncers.

Fair enough. I don't think it's just a flavor of the day though.. it's going to be a main point of discussion for the next 2 months. There have always been threads about politics in AH, that isn't my concern. The sheer volume of them popping up lately, is.

As you say, if people want to discuss politics then they should go to the correct forum. Why doesn't that happen then?

I'm not trying to change the fact that AH is a melting pot, it's great that it is. I just think i would be both tidier and more beneficial to the forum for all the threads to be placed in their own section for the time being.

Wolfe Tone

Scofflaw would not be impressed if AH politics discussions got sent to politics, especially as the standard of thread is deemed too low in politics already.

Wolfe Tone

My 2 cents is that AH is like the pub, different stuff gets talked about at different times, and some of it reads as if the posters are hammered. Leave it as it is.

My name is URL

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Scofflaw would not be impressed if AH politics discussions got sent to politics, especially as the standard of thread is deemed too low in politics already.

Well that's it really. Maybe they need to lower the bar for a while as more people are interested in talking about politics atm. If the standard of thread in the TV section was too low would they expect all threads on subjects related to it to be confined to the melting pot that is AH?

As I've said though.. I don't mind the fact that political threads exist in AH.. I just wouldn't like to see the forum turn into one which is dominated by such threads

gandalf

No they don't need to lower the bar. There is discussion ongoing in other threads here in feedback with the aim of restoring the bar to the high standards of discussion desired in the politics forum. I certainly would not be in favour of lowering them to solve an issue in After Hours.

My name is URL

gandalf wrote: »

No they don't need to lower the bar. There is discussion ongoing in other threads here in feedback with the aim of restoring the bar to the high standards of discussion desired in the politics forum. I certainly would not be in favour of lowering them to solve an issue in After Hours.

Will the threads that fall short of the high standard expected in the Politics forum be moved to AH?

P. Breathnach

My name is URL wrote: »

Will the threads that fall short of the high standard expected in the Politics forum be moved to AH?

Many of them look as if AH is their natural home.

My name is URL

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Many of them look as if AH is their natural home.

I don't think that they should be seen to belong more in AH just because they don't match the high criteria of the Politics forum, but fair enough, I can see the reasoning behind that.

If it means that even more politically focused threads are going to start appearing in AH, ie. the ones being moved from Politics then it strengthens the case for having a temporary sub-forum to house them. AH should not be a remedial politics forum, no more than Politics should be an AH-like forum.

Scofflaw

Rather then creating any kind of sub-forum on the basis of subject matter, why not just create one for boring, dull, depressing threads - chuck the politics/economy threads into it along with anything else that offends the light-hearted gaiety of the forum.

Suggested names:

1. The Boring Room (pronounced 'baw-ing' to indicate the sounds being made and the fact that threads will withdraw to it)

2. The Doom & Gloom Room: obvious.

Sweep the offensive threads into it from time to time, leaving the rest of the forum for light relief. It also gives me a home for the AH-style threads generated in Politics.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Maddison

Please do this doom & gloom thing. I tried setting up a happy thread where the recession would NOT be discussed & yet within minutes people were on it moaning. Ive been on Boards since 2007 and I havent really bothered this year because of the sheer amount of threads that are R related. AH used to be a place where you could have a laugh at the posts...not want to slit your wrists.

P. Breathnach

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think that they should be seen to belong more in AH just because they don't match the high criteria of the Politics forum, but fair enough, I can see the reasoning behind that.

Just to clarify: the politics forum is intended for political discussion. Threads that involve little more than making comments about politicians (as distinct from their political behaviour) do not really belong there.

If it means that even more politically focused threads are going to start appearing in AH, ie. the ones being moved from Politics then it strengthens the case for having a temporary sub-forum to house them. AH should not be a remedial politics forum, no more than Politics should be an AH-like forum.

I can't comment knowledgeably on AH, because I do not spend time there. I have looked in a few times, usually following something that has come under discussion in Feedback, and don't think it is a forum that would ever interest me.

I'm not suggesting that AH should be a dumping-ground for the dross from Politics, and it's not my call anyway. The Politics moderators usually deal with sub-standard threads by locking them, with a brief explanation of their reasons. That seems like a good solution.

dr.bollocko

Maddison wrote: »

Please do this doom & gloom thing. I tried setting up a happy thread where the recession would NOT be discussed & yet within minutes people were on it moaning. Ive been on Boards since 2007 and I havent really bothered this year because of the sheer amount of threads that are R related. AH used to be a place where you could have a laugh at the posts...not want to slit your wrists.

The mistake there was to put the R word in the title of your thread.
Try not to think of a pink elephant and all that.

gandalf

My name is URL wrote: »

Will the threads that fall short of the high standard expected in the Politics forum be moved to AH?

I am not a mod of politics at at the moment. I have put my name forward as a temp mod to help restore standards and to react quicker to trolls and threads like those you are talking about.

Personally I would consign them to the recycle bin and infract the thread starter.

Logical Fallacy

Just leave AH as it is. It's a general forum who's subject matter changes depending on what is most prominent in the publics minds at the time.

If you react to something now you just end up having to react to all the other things later.

gimme5minutes

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Just leave AH as it is. It's a general forum who's subject matter changes depending on what is most prominent in the publics minds at the time.

If you react to something now you just end up having to react to all the other things later.

+1. Its got alot of political and economic threads at the moment because thats what the general public are talking about alot at the moment.

RoundyMooney

It's supposedly analagous to pub chat.

By that rationale, it should not only allow political chit chat, but pretty much everything else as well (Christmas and the Henry incident come to mind).

I think it's moderated too tightly as is, but that's a result of the mods trying to please all the people all the time, more than anything. It has improved of late though, with a lot less padlocks about the place.

Let it be. It's not an issue of moving threads either, as the Politics forum, is, or seems to aspire to, much tighter and loftier standards of discussion. I'm enjoying the few socio/political/economic threads that are about atm, I'm aware that others aren't, and that's fine, just go to the next one.

I mean, the pages upon pages of inane flirting/innuendo from the I has bewbs brigade (of either gender!) used to drive me potty, but that died off as well, these things are cyclical, and generally driven by one or two prolific posters anyway (as with the politics stuff lately).

There's still a good craic there, and even serious stuff can be worked through in a fairly light hearted way, with a good vibe about it. So just don't read it if it doesn't interest you

OutlawPete

There's gonna be dozens of Budget related threads started, a Megathread specifically to throw them into is surely needed.

Could even be started earlier and just called:

BUDGET 2010 (The Speculation Megathread)

Then just change the title when it goes 'Live'.


As for the rest of the time, personally - I think there is far too many of the same Political threads in AH, day after day about how much money the country owes, how bankers should be locked up, how our politicians are doing nothing etc etc etc.

After Hours is a general interest forum, but politics seems to be treated favorably there, over and above all other topics - to the point where, at times - it can dominate the forum and I don't think that should be. Too many threads are locked where the topic would clearly be a good laugh and not enough of the political ordinated ones kicked Politics, where some of them, clearly belong.

iguana

Maddison wrote: »

Please do this doom & gloom thing. I tried setting up a happy thread where the recession would NOT be discussed & yet within minutes people were on it moaning. Ive been on Boards since 2007 and I havent really bothered this year because of the sheer amount of threads that are R related. AH used to be a place where you could have a laugh at the posts...not want to slit your wrists.

If you call a thread "Recession Threads" people are going to post about the recession.

Scofflaw

OutlawPete wrote: »

There's gonna be dozens of Budget related threads started, a Megathread specifically to throw them into is surely needed.

Could even be started earlier and just called:

BUDGET 2010 (The Speculation Megathread)

Then just change the title when it goes 'Live'.


As for the rest of the time, personally - I think there is far too many of the same Political threads in AH, day after day about how much money the country owes, how bankers should be locked up, how our politicians are doing nothing etc etc etc.

After Hours is a general interest forum, but politics seems to be treated favorably there, over and above all other topics - to the point where, at times - it can dominate the forum and I don't think that should be. Too many threads are locked where the topic would clearly be a good laugh and not enough of the political ordinated ones kicked Politics, where some of them, clearly belong.

We already have a reasonable amount of grumbling about "AH-style" threads on Politics, so we'd probably just lock them - or trade back an equal number of threads we felt belonged in AH, which currently we're not doing because we're aware AH doesn't really want them.

Mutually Assured Destruction...or coordination?

cordially,
Scofflaw

OutlawPete

Scofflaw wrote: »

Mutually Assured Destruction...or coordination?

Bit of both, I'm just thinking the OP's of such threads would be happier with a move rather than a lock, but if the threads going either direction, are not going to be appreciated - then "destruction" is warranted for sure. As it sure as hell beats having either forum full of threads that are just gonna irritate it's regular user base, which is after all, what ultimately matters at the end of the day.

Scofflaw

OutlawPete wrote: »

Bit of both, I'm just thinking the OP's of such threads would be happier with a move rather than a lock, but if the threads going either direction, are not going to be appreciated - then "destruction" is warranted for sure. As it sure as hell beats having either forum full of threads that are just gonna irritate it's regular user base, which is after all, what ultimately matters at the end of the day.

Ah - Mutually Coordinated Destruction of the people causing the problem in the first place. Probably the best option!

One possibility that makes sense to me is that problem threads are locked before being moved, and it's then the option of the local mods to unlock them - details can go in the moving notice ("PM the AH mods/report this post to have this thread unlocked").

cordially,
Scofflaw

My name is URL

All of this could be sorted out with the addition of a temporary subforum, where some of the threads being started on both AH & Politics could be moved to. Why does something as straightforward as an ad-hoc common-ground forum for such things need to be dragged out and scrutinised to this extent?

If one forum is unhappy with the level of discussion taking place, and the other with the volume of political threads emerging; then the obvious answer is a temp subforum.. where there is an AH-like moderation protocol but a poitically orientated focus?

I'm not trying to get political talk banned from AH.. I'm all for it, and actually enjoy it when added to the laid back attitude of AH.. but the number of despair and doomsaying is ridiculous atm..

I've noticed a few ploitical threads being closed in AH today though. I don't think that's a fix. Disallowing people from airing their views is worse than moving it to a forum where it isn't welcome.

K-9

My name is URL wrote: »

but the number of despair and doomsaying is ridiculous atm..

That probably is a common problem in AH and Politics. Anything, anyway positive is immediately shouted down and derided.

There has been some good news in the last month or so. Bit like the markets, nobody seems to care!

OutlawPete

My name is URL wrote: »

.. but the number of despair and doomsaying is ridiculous atm..

I agree, but surely the answer is for moderators to be as strict with which political threads are left opem, as they obviously are with which other thread topics they allow to remain, that could arguably be said to belong on other forums, such as Music, Humour, Film, Celeb etc etc.

Threads with the above topics, technically belong elsewhere, but as After Hours is General Interest forum with 'adult humour' obviously running through it like a stick of rock - these topics are allowed to a certain level, as long as the thread topics are not very specific, such as would be the case with the following:

'What is the best Smith's song' or 'De Niro's best movie performance'.

So, my opinion would be that political threads should be treated in much the same way: just allow are certain number of them that have obvious After Hours appeal - then no subforum would be needed, as Politics would not be seen or treated as a favored topic, which - at the moment, it appears to be.

I think this problem would then sort it self out, as users would stop starting as many Politics threads in AH when they see less around. The fact that there are so many of them at different times, I think - leads to more and more being started.

My name is URL

People are gonna want to vent. If heaps of threads are closed, either in AH or Politics then people will feel butthurt and the problem perpetuates further. Why should people not be allowed to express their opinions.. even if they are uninformed opinions? There's a big difference between trolls and those who are simply fed up and in need of a good moan.

As I've said, I don't want there to be a crackdown on those threads.. but a juncture in where they happen.

OutlawPete

My name is URL wrote: »

People are gonna want to vent. If heaps of threads are closed, either in AH or Politics then people will feel butthurt and the problem perpetuates further.

Well, they have the Politics forum if there thread is worthy of that forum and After Hours if it is worthy of it.

I would say that 90% of the political threads that are started each week in After Hours would not need to be started if they just used the search function properly. If there was a sub-forum, it would just be full of little used threads as the traffic there would be minimal.

After a while, it would just be considered to be the After Hours recycle bin.

My name is URL wrote: »

Why should people not be allowed to express their opinions.. even if they are uninformed opinions? There's a big difference between trolls and those who are simply fed up and in need of a good moan.

That's what the Politics forum is for though.

After Hours (in my view) should only accommodate a certain amount of political threads, just as they should only accommodate a certain amount of threads on all topics - once they get too specific and veer away from 'General Interest' (which I feel a lot of the political threads do) then I feel hey should go to specific forums, or if not appreciated there, locked.

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

People are gonna want to vent. If heaps of threads are closed, either in AH or Politics then people will feel butthurt and the problem perpetuates further.

Well, they have the Politics forum if there thread is worthy of that forum and After Hours if it is worthy of it.

I would say that 90% of the political threads that are started each week in After Hours would not need to be started if they just used the search function properly. If there was a sub-forum, it would just be full of little used threads as the traffic there would be minimal.

After a while, it would just be considered to be the After Hours recycle bin.



That's what the Politics forum is for though.

After Hours (in my view) should only accommodate a certain amount of political threads, just as they should only accommodate a certain amount of threads on all topics - once they get too specific and veer away from 'General Interest' (which I feel a lot of the political threads do) then I feel hey should go to specific forums, or if not appreciated there, locked.

Venting and ranting isn't allowed in Politics. It is supposed to be a rational forum for political discussion, with importantly, a higher standard than AH.

There is a Ranting & Raving forum but that was made private, so I assume mods can't move AH threads to private fora?

iguana

How about making a number of megathreads based on recessionary sub-themes. There are some obvious ones, the budget, EU/IMF bailout, loss of standard of living, solutions to save economy, etc. Start a few large threads, don't sticky them, unless for maybe Budget week, etc. Whenever a thread crops up that can fit with one of the large threads merge it. If it's busy it will be on the front page, if not it won't show.

That way at most there will be 4/5 threads on the front page at most and they won't be there all the time. That might seem like a lot but the economy/recession is big, big news at the moment. Almost everyone is being effected by what is happening, most negatively, a lot very, very negatively. I understand that plenty of people would rather not talk about it, at least not all of the time, but for a lot of people this is a huge, huge aspect of their lives.

FlutterinBantam

Where are these 'Economical' threads in AH, most of them have quite a few sentences.

Nodin

iguana wrote: »

How about making a number of megathreads based on recessionary sub-themes. There are some obvious ones, the budget, EU/IMF bailout, loss of standard of living, solutions to save economy, etc. Start a few large threads, don't sticky them, unless for maybe Budget week, etc. Whenever a thread crops up that can fit with one of the large threads merge it. If it's busy it will be on the front page, if not it won't show.

That way at most there will be 4/5 threads on the front page at most and they won't be there all the time. That might seem like a lot but the economy/recession is big, big news at the moment. Almost everyone is being effected by what is happening, most negatively, a lot very, very negatively. I understand that plenty of people would rather not talk about it, at least not all of the time, but for a lot of people this is a huge, huge aspect of their lives.

....works perfectly well elsewhere. No point in having a merge feature if ye don't use it.

Terry

Christ. I came in here to take the piss, only to see one of my own posts quoted.

Mega thread on everything won't work.

Mega threads on each specific topic is what's needed.

IMF: Mega thread.
NAMA: Mega thread.
Bertie & co. Mega thread.
Dole spongers: Mega thread.
Travellers: Mega thread.
Immigints: Mega thread.
Moe: Mega thread.
Banks: Mega thread.
Bankers: Mega thread.

Basically a megathread for every petty thing pissing off the private sector workers who spend their work hours posting in AH.

What? Too close to the bone? Hey, you have no problem whining about everyone who isn't you. Don't complain when you are put in the spotlight.

starbelgrade

What ... no mega thread for the EMF?

That's unbelievable.

OutlawPete

starbelgrade wrote: »

What ... no mega thread for the EMF?

That's unbelievable.

It's a serious topic though Star and it affects a lot of people, jokes are hardly helpful.

Maybe you could do well to read this post on the IMF - Big Bad Wolf thread.

foxinsox

Scofflaw wrote: »

Rather then creating any kind of sub-forum on the basis of subject matter, why not just create one for boring, dull, depressing threads - chuck the politics/economy threads into it along with anything else that offends the light-hearted gaiety of the forum.

Suggested names:

1. The Boring Room (pronounced 'baw-ing' to indicate the sounds being made and the fact that threads will withdraw to it)

2. The Doom & Gloom Room: obvious.

Sweep the offensive threads into it from time to time, leaving the rest of the forum for light relief. It also gives me a home for the AH-style threads generated in Politics.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I think a temporary sub-forum is a most excellent plan..

The amount of depressing political unamusing threads is not cheering me up


After Hours - The Dark Side

dr.bollocko

foxinsox wrote: »

I think a temporary sub-forum is a most excellent plan..

The amount of depressing political unamusing threads is not cheering me up

Working on it. Tis a blooming depressing place right now. Bit of merging and locking at will going on at the moment.

K-9

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Working on it. Tis a blooming depressing place right now. Bit of merging and locking at will going on at the moment.

Was thinking there was a few threads that could be merged.

dr.bollocko

We have a big gloomy we're all screwed sunday mega merge.
Now all we need's an over cooked roast and a nice long nap.

randylonghorn

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Working on it. Tis a blooming depressing place right now. Bit of merging and locking at will going on at the moment.

Boards tends to reflect what's happening in Ireland, and AH especially often tends to reflect the worst / most weird and / or extreme.

And Ireland is a blooming depressing place right now.

gandalf wrote: »

No they don't need to lower the bar. There is discussion ongoing in other threads here in feedback with the aim of restoring the bar to the high standards of discussion desired in the politics forum. I certainly would not be in favour of lowering them to solve an issue in After Hours.

gandalf wrote: »

I am not a mod of politics at at the moment. I have put my name forward as a temp mod to help restore standards and to react quicker to trolls and threads like those you are talking about.

Personally I would consign them to the recycle bin and infract the thread starter.

While the quality of discourse on Politics may have suffered recently, this reflects the fact that over the last while suddenly everyone is interested in "politics" in the broad sense (because it's hitting them in the pocket).

Given that one of the reasons imho why we're in the present mess was that few ordinary people in Ireland were interested in politics or willing to ask questions during the "good" years of the Diseased Celtic Kitten (as exemplified finally by the re-election of FF in 2007), is this actually a bad thing?

While I accept that low content / extremist / ranting posts in a forum like Politics are annoying (hell, they annoy me if I'm honest), surely encouraging the relevant posters to raise their game would be preferable to a more high-handed approach which will surely be perceived as elitist, regardless of the real reasons behind it?

(I accept that deliberate trolling is a different issue).

gandalf

Coming on and posting a rant is not taking an active interest in Politics. Some of the threads that have allowed to run on the Politics forum are of the type that would be more at home on After Hours.

I am finding it difficult to justify taking part in discussions there these days, I know I am not the only one. So basically what will happen is those of us who try to consider what we post will cease to actively part take in the forum and all that will be left is the noise and no one will learn anything from there.

OutlawPete

gandalf wrote: »

Coming on and posting a rant is not taking an active interest in Politics. Some of the threads that have allowed to run on the Politics forum are of the type that would be more at home on After Hours.

If they are just "rants", then maybe 'ranting and raving' would be the best place for them.

Political threads have a place on After Hours for sure, but 'political rants' - I don't think should.

My name is URL

I still think a sub-forum is in order. Threads complaining about other threads in AH have started to arise. No reason has been given yet as to why a temporary sub-forum serving as a juncture for AH-like political discussion would not work; other than 'if you do this, you'll need to do other things' or 'AH is pub talk central'.. The former is complete crap.. an ad-hoc solution is just that, and does not mean that the same action needs to be taken for other issues. The latter is a fair comment, but the reasoning behind setting up a sub-forum would protect that fact. I know if I went into a pub where 80% of the people were talking politics, I would not stay for long.

It would help both AH and the Politics forum if there was a temp sub-forum.. I really don't understand why there is such a degree of heel dragging here

gandalf

My name is URL wrote: »

It would help both AH and the Politics forum if there was a temp sub-forum.. I really don't understand why there is such a degree of heel dragging here

I think its to do with egos tbh and the unwillingness in both forums to ask for help. It kind of mirrors the whole situation with the Government and the ECB/IMF. The Politics forum and After Hours forum need to request help from the boards version of the IMF

Overheal

OutlawPete wrote: »

If they are just "rants", then maybe 'ranting and raving' would be the best place for them.

Political threads have a place on After Hours for sure, but 'political rants' - I don't think should.

Political rants dont belong in R&R either, per its charter.