Ireland's Greatest Orator

wolfpawnat

Mods if this has been done, I apologize, I did try to find out if something like this was done before but no sign.

Name says it all.

Who do you think is Ireland's Greatest ever Speaker?

DeV.
Pearse.
Connolly.
Larkin.
O'Connell.

These are 5 great men that I can think of off the top of my head.

I didn't want to put a poll in because I am terrified of forgetting one!

Denerick

Daniel O'Connell was considered one of the finest orators of his age, especially in an international context. He was excellent and widely admired in the House of Commons (Gladstone wrote a wonderful piece about his conduct in the House) and as a demagogue, in terms of rallying the masses (And he certainly achieved this, Irish people in their hundreds of thousands turned out to hear him in the year of repeal) he was uncomparable. It is unfortunate there was no video footage, I would dearly have loved to have seen the great man in his prime.

You are leaving out Henry Grattan. His speeches were so eloquent, his condemnation of the Act of Union surpasses any and all superlatives. He is the epitome of parliamentary oratory in any context.

Dev and Pearse were terrible orators. Pearse had one good day - O'Donovan Rossa's funeral - but besides that he was simply far too nervous a soul to set the flames of people's souls alight. Dev admitted that had he not got into politics he would have been a bishop. He was wooden, dry and uncharismatic. He is a bit of a Lenin character really, he was admired and loved despite suffering from all the drawbacks of a boorish personality.

Jim Larkin deserves his place in this hall of greats, the workers of Dublin certainly related to this booming northern voice.

who what when

And who is currently irelands greatest orator?

InTheTrees

wolfpawnat wrote: »

O'Connell.

Given the kind of attendance he commanded there surely couldn't be anyone else even close?

And how about adding Parnell to your list? He played the brits game in parliment in Westminster and beat them at it.

wolfpawnat

InTheTrees wrote: »

And how about adding Parnell to your list? He played the brits game in parliment in Westminster and beat them at it.

Indeed, this is why I put this up. I had forgotten about Parnell's great speeches, even though one of the beautiful quotes of his speeches is immortalized on his statue on O'Connell's Street!

I am being ate alive by my housemate, who is fuming that I did not mention the speech made by Robert Emmett from the Dock! Though it is only one speech, it is a great one!

Denerick

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Indeed, this is why I put this up. I had forgotten about Parnell's great speeches, even though one of the beautiful quotes of his speeches is immortalized on his statue on O'Connell's Street!

I am being ate alive by my housemate, who is fuming that I did not mention the speech made by Robert Emmett from the Dock! Though it is only one speech, it is a great one!

Yeah, Emmet deserves a mention, though I'm not sure he earns it for consistency. The speech from the dock is certainly high up in the national canon though.

walrusgumble

who what when wrote: »

And who is currently irelands greatest orator?

Considering that the Irish are suppose to have the gift of the gab, probably O'Connell still is heads and shoulders over all. Connolly was good at driving the spirit without the mythicism that came from Yeats and later Pearse.

Michael Collins, didn't some people say he was coming into his own? Anyone know what was Edward Carson like, considering his barrister background?

Modern? For striking fear, anger, hatred, loyality (which ever side one was on) Ian Paisley. More the theatre than what he said

Isn't ths type of communication really be dead now? We don't have the same theatatrics as one sees in Westminister (Always good to watch), after all, all the scripts are..... well, well prepared scripts by civil servants and the like, no off the cuff / unless fighting back against petty allegations from the other side. I was surprised that Manseragh would not be there, but he does not have it . Sure, don't we not take to kindly to the Kevin Myers school of English, as seen with Bertie, dis dat dose (ah, begining to sound snobby, for I can't talk:D)

What makes a good communicator? Isn't actions more important?

david75

Bono's great at inducting people into the rock n roll hall of fame...

*runs*

wolfpawnat

walrusgumble wrote: »

What makes a good communicator? Isn't actions more important?

Because actions mean nothing if you cannot rile them up with a good speech!

Ian Paisley was a great speaker too. Great passion.

wolfpawnat

david75 wrote: »

Bono's great at inducting people into the rock n roll hall of fame...

*runs*

Why Fanning? Why are you dragging him into this too???

david75

Funny you mention fanning..he's gotta be the very worst interviewer in the history of interviews ever.

wolfpawnat

david75 wrote: »

Funny you mention fanning..he's gotta be the very worst interviewer in the history of interviews ever.

I was playing off your name and your mentioning of Bono!

All news reporters, radio talk show hosts and radio presenters are terrible these days. You wouldn't follow most of them through a revolving door!

CDfm

LOL at Fanning & Bono

Daniel O'Connell


Ian Paisley was a great demagogue.


Paddy Hillery spearheaded an attack on Charlie Haughey in the early 70's to the Fianna Fail Party following the arms scandal that consolidated FF.

Have we had a really important inspiring speech in Ireland since Independence.

patsman07

In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. I say that very begrudgingly.
I don't believe we've had any great speakers since independence on the Nationalist side. Its strange because a few members of the diaspora have become fine orators e.g The Kennedys, George Galloway, Clinton.
I think when you speak of a great orator, its next to impossible to rate anyone whose speech has not been recorded. Eloquent words are fine but I think its in the delivery that someone can become a great orator.

Dionysus

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Ireland's Greatest Orator

Patrick Darcy (1598-1669)? Patrick Barnwall?

PatsytheNazi

patsman07 wrote: »

In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. I say that very begrudgingly.
I don't believe we've had any great speakers since independence on the Nationalist side. Its strange because a few members of the diaspora have become fine orators e.g The Kennedys, George Galloway, Clinton.
I think when you speak of a great orator, its next to impossible to rate anyone whose speech has not been recorded. Eloquent words are fine but I think its in the delivery that someone can become a great orator.

" In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. " :eek: In fairness you stated - I say that very begrudgingly. But you've fallen for the whole purpose of the black propaganda that has been spewed out by so called 'opinion makers' of Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris, Garret Fitzgerald etc - to dress up servility to the corrupt and perverted as "been able to accept all traditions on the island of Ireland......our maturity as a nation blah, blah, blah ".

He was about as great an orator as Idi Amin or Jackie Healy Rae - though in fairness to Jackie he never spouted the secterian hatred of Paisley. About all Paisley could ever say was, " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " :rolleyes: Some orator indeed.

Paisley



Idi Amin

brianthebard

Paisley is not comparable to Amin ffs. :rolleyes:

wolfpawnat

This thread isn't not about their political/religious beliefs, but their ability to orate them.

I hate Paisleys speeches in regards to sectarianism, but he was a good public speaker, obviously, old age has taken some of his abilities away.

PatsytheNazi

brianthebard wrote: »

Paisley is not comparable to Amin ffs. :rolleyes:

Ok it's not fair to Idi Amin to compare him to Dr Ian Parsley.

PatsytheNazi

wolfpawnat wrote: »

This thread isn't not about their political/religious beliefs, but their ability to orate them.

I hate Paisleys speeches in regards to sectarianism, but he was a good public speaker, obviously, old age has taken some of his abilities away.

Ok, so is Jackie Healy Rae, Charlie Haughey, Martin Manseragh etc

brianthebard

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok it's not fair to Idi Amin to compare him to Dr Ian Parsley.

Don't post in this thread again if you can't contribute properly. Mod.

PatsytheNazi

brianthebard wrote: »

Don't post in this thread again if you can't contribute properly. Mod.

Ok in all fairness, a guy who can only shout " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " is a great orator ?

I'll tell you what a great orator is, Bernadette Devlin (McAliskey). The youngest MP ever elected to Westminister, her maiden speech in the Commons was regarded even by Tory backbenchers at the time as one of the greatest they ever heard. I have gone to hear her speak on several occasions - the finest orator I will ever hear in my lifetime.

brianthebard

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok in all fairness, a guy who can only shout " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " is a great orator ?

I'll tell you what a great orator is, Bernadette Devlin (McAliskey). The youngest MP ever elected to Westminister, her maiden speech in the Commons was regarded even by Tory backbenchers at the time as one of the greatest they ever heard. I have gone to hear her speak on several occasions - the finest orator I will ever hear in my lifetime.

I've no problem with you pointing out the lack of finesse in Paisley's speechifying but there's nothing to gain from comparing him to dictator's. That's is all. The above is an example of a useful post, the previous ones are not. If you stick with the above style things may run smoother for everyone.

CDfm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok in all fairness, a guy who can only shout " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " is a great orator ?

Actually he did a bit more than that and he understood his media.

I'll tell you what a great orator is, Bernadette Devlin (McAliskey). The youngest MP ever elected to Westminister, her maiden speech in the Commons was regarded even by Tory backbenchers at the time as one of the greatest they ever heard. I have gone to hear her speak on several occasions - the finest orator I will ever hear in my lifetime.

I am not familiar with it.

But it coincided with Dana winning the Eurovision etc and she was a beminiskirted passionate young woman.

I did hear her on radio once discussing being airlifted following an assasination attempt and her story was great and she used very simple descriptive language almost monotone and then changed volume and tone and was very engaging.

So I can imagine she has good oratorial skills.

Who knows Patsy, the two best orators of the 20th Century in Ireland may have been from the North when the spoken word and visual impact of TV & Radio took over from the written word.

Denerick

That rubbish about Paisley is just that, rubbish. Paisley's booming voice was the hallmark of the Ulster demagogue, be it at a public rally or in parliament. His opinions were horrible, but his manner of expressing them was electrifying.

Wolfe Tone

Paisley was a good speaker in the way people like Hitler are good speakers, they can spew horrible bile and people will clamor for more and be seduced by it.

(Not trying to Godwin or anything, I think its a valid point)

wolfpawnat

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Paisley was a good speaker in the way people like Hitler are good speakers, they can spew horrible bile and people will clamor for more and be seduced by it.

(Not trying to Godwin or anything, I think its a valid point)

It was a documentary of him and watching him speak that spurred me to think of this thread. I have no idea what Hitler was saying, but you could feel the fire behind it!

CDfm

wolfpawnat wrote: »

It was a documentary of him and watching him speak that spurred me to think of this thread. I have no idea what Hitler was saying, but you could feel the fire behind it!

Exactly, and JFK beat Nixon in the presedential election for his use of media.

So do we have a media star in Irish History.

delta_bravo

"Ye can have Boland, but ye can't have Fianna Fail"

patsman07

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

" In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. " :eek: In fairness you stated - I say that very begrudgingly. But you've fallen for the whole purpose of the black propaganda that has been spewed out by so called 'opinion makers' of Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris, Garret Fitzgerald etc - to dress up servility to the corrupt and perverted as "been able to accept all traditions on the island of Ireland......our maturity as a nation blah, blah, blah ".

He was about as great an orator as Idi Amin or Jackie Healy Rae - though in fairness to Jackie he never spouted the secterian hatred of Paisley. About all Paisley could ever say was, " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " :rolleyes: Some orator indeed.

You've got me all wrong. I have no time for the likes of Eoghan Harris and CC O'Brien. As other posters have stated, this is about public speaking. To me that means disregarding the politics of what is being said and focusing on the delivery of the message.

David Norris I think is also a good speaker. (Hard to believe Paisley and David Norris can be mentioned in the same post!)

sheesh

not so sure about dev anybody hear a recording of the speech he made in the US after 1916 and the executions. I thought it was quiet impressive, not in a loud bellowing way but more of a lament.

in modern times:

I think no one does incredulity like Pat Rabbite.

Micheal Noonan Used to do very entertaining Budget day speeches.

Suprisingly enough (if you listened to him speaking on TV) John O donohue can knock out a good speech.

mind you none of the above would inspire me to follow them.

sron

Young Ireland ought to get a mention - Mitchel, Meagher, et al.

Burke was a well respected orator.

Grattan, the failed poet, probably wins though. 'Twas unfortunate his political achievements weren't as pretty as his words though.

CDfm

Michael Barrret wrongfully convicted of the Bombing of Clerkenwell in 1878 delivered a remarkable speech by all accounts

"I have never wilfully maliciously, or intentionally injured a human being that I am aware of, no, not even in character, I love my country and if my life was ten times dearer that it is, and if I could by every means redress the wrongs of that persecuted land by the sacrifice of my life, I would willing and gladly do so - I will meet death without a murmur". http://archives.tcm.ie/westernpeople/2002/04/03/story6581.asp

The next day the ''Daily Telegraph'' reported that he

“...delivered a most remarkable speech, criticising with great acuteness the evidence against him, protesting that he had been condemned on insufficient grounds, and eloquently asserting his innocence”.

One of the trial lawyers, Montague Williams, wrote:

“On looking at the dock, one’s attention was attracted by the appearance of Barrett, for whom I must confess I felt great commiseration. He was a square–built fellow, scarcely five feet eight in height and dressed like a well–to–do farmer. This resemblance was increased by the frank, open, expression on his face. A less murderous countenance than Barrett’s I have not seen. Good humour was latent in his every feature and he took the greatest interest in the proceedings.”

http://tripatlas.com/Michael_Barrett_%28Fenian%29

Does anyone have a link to his complete speech.

PatsytheNazi

Denerick wrote: »

That rubbish about Paisley is just that, rubbish. Paisley's booming voice was the hallmark of the Ulster demagogue, be it at a public rally or in parliament. His opinions were horrible, but his manner of expressing them was electrifying.

Reverend Ian Parsley's manner of expressing his views were about as was electrifying as a blind drunk Celtic supporter after a match against Rangers :rolleyes:

Denerick

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Reverend Ian Parsley's manner of expressing his views were about as was electrifying as a blind drunk Celtic supporter after a match against Rangers :rolleyes:

Oh just go away you boring partisan.

Emme

David Norris is definitely one of the best orators in Ireland today. He's animated, articulate and gets a myriad of points across in a way that can be understood by ordinary people. He can connect with all types of people (except homophobes :rolleyes:)which is one trait of a great orator. He should be president!:D

Daniel O'Connell gets my vote for the best orator in Irish history with all those monster meetings.

Paisley certainly knew how to stir a mob, but that's not a hallmark of a great orator.

MarchDub

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Reverend Ian Parsley's manner of expressing his views were about as was electrifying as a blind drunk Celtic supporter after a match against Rangers :rolleyes:

You know, you might have something there. Is there a thin line between great orator and rabble rouser?

As someone who remembers the period I recall in my early teens seeing a direct connection in style between Paisley, Ian Smith in 'Rhodesia' with his racist screeds and Governor George Wallace in Alabama with his hate speeches of "segregation forever" fame.

They weren't so much swaying or influencing people with their words as feeding into the already established prejudices of their respective audiences.

MarchDub

My vote goes to Oscar Wilde who said - "we Irish...are the greatest talkers since the Greeks".

During one of the trails Wilde broke into a speech on 'The Love that Dare not Speak its name' that stirred the Victorian public in the court. His sentiments probably went against their prejudices but they were so stirred by what Wilde said that they all broke into applause.

Unfortunately, ultimately Wilde ended up in gaol anyway.

PatsytheNazi

MarchDub wrote: »

You know, you might have something there. Is there a thin line between great orator and rabble rouser?

As someone who remembers the period I recall in my early teens seeing a direct connection in style between Paisley, Ian Smith in 'Rhodesia' with his racist screeds and Governor George Wallace in Alabama with his hate speeches of "segregation forever" fame.

They weren't so much swaying or influencing people with their words as feeding into the already established prejudices of their respective audiences.

Paisley got his doctorate from the segragationist and anti Catholic Bob Jones University in the 60's. While there he 'studied' the preaching methods of suprmascist crackpot evangelists of the deep south. Birds of a feather.

CDfm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Paisley got his doctorate from the segragationist and anti Catholic Bob Jones University in the 60's. While there he 'studied' the preaching methods of suprmascist crackpot evangelists of the deep south. Birds of a feather.

Thats like saying Question Time between the Taoiseach and the dail is of little use.

We all know it to be posturing and rhetoric but its the skill with with its done.

Oratory is not all about ideas or clarity or prose but delivery and passion.

You can equally say that the evasive qualities of Sinn Fein on issues they do not want to discuss is a skill.

Oratory is like political stagecraft and acknowledging the skill of Paisley may open the door for others to acknowledge the skill of those you support.

Take this

Paisley continued to denounce the Catholic Church and the Pope after the incident. In a television interview for The Unquiet Man, a 2001 documentary on Paisley's life, he expressed his pride at being the only person to have the courage to denounce the Pope. After the death of Pope John Paul II in 2005, Paisley expressed sympathy for Catholics stating

"We can understand how Roman Catholics feel at the death of the Pope and we would want in no way to interfere with their expression of sorrow and grief at this time." [16]

This was in contrast to Paisley's reaction to the death of Pope John XXIII in June 1963, when Paisley organised protests against the lowering of flags in public buildings after the death of the Pope. [17]

That was a piece of oratory that expressed empathy and connection.

MarchDub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqx4E5tq1Bo

Someone mentioned Pat Rabbitte - here he is in full oratory.

who the fug

There was a guy who diied mid eighties , communist from Leitrim, use to love listening to him on the Radio , was in the Dail.

An old blue shirt made me listen to him, because of the quality of his oratory

MarchDub

who the fug wrote: »

There was a guy who diied mid eighties , communist from Leitrim, use to love listening to him on the Radio , was in the Dail.

An old blue shirt made me listen to him, because of the quality of his oratory

Are you maybe referring to John Joe McGirl? He was a great orator too.

butcher75

Currently Gerry Adams is probably Irelands best, you might not agree with his politics but he's a superb orator.