marriage vows

ladygrey

Getting married to bf of nearly six years next year. At the point of discussing the marriage ceremony and bf is adamant that he will not step inside a church to exchange vows,due to catholic church's current problems. For me though, i don't think I will feel married unless it happens in a church, with my mother at my side, as it's what i have always hoped for.

Any body have the same problem? Any solutions?

Nevyn

Is it the church building which is a problem or the sacrement of marriage?
What if you can get a priest to do it but not in a church?

Bottom line while the sacrement of christian marriage is something people may want it is not required for you to be legally married, so it depends do you want to be married to him or do you want the fairytale wedding day?

ladygrey

It is the church building and the religious angle. He is certainly happy to be married and wants it to happen, but in a registry office. I am an occasional mass goer but just with the mam. But I respect the ceremony.

It's more to me than the fairy-tale wedding. I'm a bit of a tom-boy really.

Is it legal to have the wedding anywhere you like?

MistyCheese

ladygrey wrote: »

Is it legal to have the wedding anywhere you like?

Civil ceremonies are indeed legal in Ireland however, after reading this

ladygrey wrote: »

For me though, i don't think I will feel married unless it happens in a church, with my mother at my side, as it's what i have always hoped for.

it seems like having a church wedding is important to you. The best thing to do is sit down with your fiance and try to reach a compromise. Why is he so against a church wedding? Is it because of his own personal beliefs or is he is he just not a religious person in general? Is it having a priest as an officiant that he objects to? Is it important to you that you be married by a man of the cloth?

You need to sort out what's most important to both of you and then you can work on a compromise. For example, if it's the Catholic religion as a whole that he objects to what are his feelings towards raising the children (if the two of you have children) as Catholics? What are his feelings towards having a Christening? Do they match your feelings?

ztoical

ladygrey wrote: »

Is it legal to have the wedding anywhere you like?

Not sure if it's 100% anywhere you like in Ireland. In Northern Ireland you can marry anywhere you like, same in the rest of the UK. Two friends got married on a cliff top in wales not that long ago and it was a really lovely day....full gothic wedding dress and back to a castle for the afters.

Someone with a bit more legal know how can say what the story is in ireland but you don't have to marry in church, you can get married in the registry office and it can be just as nice a ceromony as a church. My Aunt had her wedding in the registry office a few years back and I thought it was going to be dull hearing the word 'office' but they were able to pick whatever music they wanted, what ever vows they wanted, and arrange the room the same as a church and they had all the wedding photos done in the garden of the hotel and I can remember more about it then my cousins big massive church wedding only a few months back.

I could understand wanting to push for a church wedding on your side if you were a big church goer but if your not and your OH is very strong in his opinion I would look into what your options are and finding a compromise after all thats what a marriage is all about.

I know there's an old church ruin on the Kilkenny - Freshford road that I've seen a wedding happen in. Not sure if it was allowed due it once being a church as I was just driving past but it looked really nice this old ruin with no roof, ivy everywhere and they covered it in white flowers and little lights.

If all else fails do what my friend did and fly to vegas and get married by Elvis!

Sleepy

Which is more important: the wedding or the marriage? In your boyfriends position, I'd be questioning your commitment to the latter if you can't respect his wishes on this.

TBH, it sounds exactly like it is about the "fairy tale" wedding to you rather than Catholicism being a big part of your life... You "respect the ceremony" but are just an occasional church goer? If Catholicism was important enough that you need a religious ceremony, wouldn't you follow the religion's rules about mass attendance?

If A la carte Catholicism is that important to you, is your fiancé prepared for the celebrant to be a priest if the wedding's held outside a church? It's really the only compromise available unless you can find a de-consecrated church that's licensed for civil ceremonies.

AFAIK, there are only some places in Ireland (mainly hotels) where you can get married that aren't places of worship or registry offices. I was at a lovely civil wedding in Cloonacauneen Castle in Galway this summer if that's any help?

IrishEyes19

Sleepy wrote: »

Which is more important: the wedding or the marriage? In your boyfriends position, I'd be questioning your commitment to the latter if you can't respect his wishes on this.

TBH, it sounds exactly like it is about the "fairy tale" wedding to you rather than Catholicism being a big part of your life... You "respect the ceremony" but are just an occasional church goer? If Catholicism was important enough that you need a religious ceremony, wouldn't you follow the religion's rules about mass attendance?

If A la carte Catholicism is that important to you, is your fiancé prepared for the celebrant to be a priest if the wedding's held outside a church? It's really the only compromise available unless you can find a de-consecrated church that's licensed for civil ceremonies.

AFAIK, there are only some places in Ireland (mainly hotels) where you can get married that aren't places of worship or registry offices. I was at a lovely civil wedding in Cloonacauneen Castle in Galway this summer if that's any help?

eh, doest it work both ways, why can't he respect the OP's wishes. If the OP is still an occasional church goer........a church goer therefore she still is. Sorry but church bashing seems all too common these days and why cant he just forget about his qualms if he doesnt believe in it anyway and just go along with it.

I say this as it should be fair sided, he shouldnt have to do that if he doesnt want to, and she shouldnt have to lose her want to get married in a traditional ceremony if she wants it. Fair is fair!!

jimmycrackcorm

I'm with the op on this. The church is irrelevant as at this stage it is more ceremonial than anything. The guy just wants to make some sort of political protest against the church. Somebody should break the news to him that not having a wedding in church won't have any effect or make any statement.

While reminding him of such, he should also be aware that long before his time many protestants and other men from other denominations undertook traditional Catholic marriage ceremonies despite not agreeing with it but simply because it made their wife happy. It's not like it'll be the only time he'll to have to compromise.

The wedding day really is the girls day, he should go with the flow. Stupid principles over the behaviour of the church have no priority over making the day special; if he wants to be principled then he should ban guests from drinking alcohol for the day.

Nevyn

Given the money which has to be given to the church for the use of it and the money for the priest to do the wedding then I can understand someone who never attends not wanting to have the church in any way invovled in the wedding.

jimmycrackcorm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Given the money which has to be given to the church for the use of it and the money for the priest to do the wedding then I can understand someone who never attends not wanting to have the church in any way invovled in the wedding.

Has this gone up in price with the celtic tiger? because this was the cheapest part of my wedding.

Your point would be pertinent if the discussion was instead about the money given towards the reception for aunts and uncles that the bride and groom never see.

ztoical

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

if he doesnt believe in it anyway and just go along with it.

If I was a religious person and my partner was just playing along with something that was really important to me I'd find it a bit insulting to be honest. The OP said the vows part felt very important to hear but how would she feel standing there in the church saying these vows knowing her OH is just going along with it? I'd feel empty TBH and I'd rather find something that means something to both parties then have one just go through the motions of something they don't believe in.

Beruthiel

ladygrey wrote: »

Is it legal to have the wedding anywhere you like?

You can have nearly any kind of service you want just about anywhere these days.
I recently had an old celtic hand fasting ceremony at the venue we were eating at.
Our guests stood in a circle with us in the middle. It was lovely, simple and personal. And legal.

It's your wedding day. You should both be coming to a compromise that suits the two of you.
After all, if you are both not happy and loving the day, what's the point?
Go explore all the options out there.

Walls

I understand both sides; many folk just assume their wedding will be in a church and find adjusting their views difficult, while others find the idea of a church wedding hard to stomach.

You don't have to get married in a Registry office to have a civic ceremony. There are a lot of places, like OPW sites, that now allow weddings. Would a castle do? We were married there last July and not a word of complaint from anyone.

Sleepy

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

eh, doest it work both ways, why can't he respect the OP's wishes. If the OP is still an occasional church goer........a church goer therefore she still is. Sorry but church bashing seems all too common these days and why cant he just forget about his qualms if he doesnt believe in it anyway and just go along with it.

Catholic dogma dictates that adherants attend church every week. Ergo, if the OP was a practicing Catholic, or in any way serious about Catholicism she'd be more than an occasional church goer.

As Thaed pointed out, weddings in Churches aren't free, you have to pay them for the use of the church and, for anyone who disagrees with the Catholic Churches many questionable positions and activities (e.g. discrimination against women, LGBT rights, condemnation of the use of condoms in AIDS ravaged countries, questionable behaviour during WW2, Protection of Predatory Paedophiles etc. etc. etc.) funding this is going to be hard to stomach. I'll happily attend a friend's wedding in a church but would share the OP's partners views on having my own one there.

I say this as it should be fair sided, he shouldnt have to do that if he doesnt want to, and she shouldnt have to lose her want to get married in a traditional ceremony if she wants it. Fair is fair!!

As you said, in an ideal world, they could both have their way. I'd argue that in a perfect world religion would never have taken hold as it has (the promise of a happy afterlife in exchange for a miserable one on earth has always been one of the major selling points of religions) and so, there'd be no argument, however

Let's be honest, from what the OP has told us, she wants a traditional wedding for the asthetics of a church. Which is fair enough, by and large, they're beautiful buildings until you consider the good that could have been done with the money that went into building them... Would the Jesus of the Christian bible have approved of favouring grand buildings to honour him over feeding the poor? When you start to consider the inherrant hypocrisy of the grandeur of them, most churches actually become quite sickening to behold.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm with the op on this. The church is irrelevant as at this stage it is more ceremonial than anything. The guy just wants to make some sort of political protest against the church. Somebody should break the news to him that not having a wedding in church won't have any effect or make any statement.

A couple of effects of the top of my head:

1) Rather than financially supporting the church, the local economy will get some support in pretty tough times.

2) Reducing the "normality" of Church Weddings. With every couple that gets married outside the church, the likelihood of these arguments between couples reduces. Most Irish people are not Catholic. Most that profess to be so do not actually hold Catholic beliefs. Most church weddings are happening because Churches are "pretty" places, to keep Mammy/Granny happy or simply because it's the done thing.

While reminding him of such, he should also be aware that long before his time many protestants and other men from other denominations undertook traditional Catholic marriage ceremonies despite not agreeing with it but simply because it made their wife happy. It's not like it'll be the only time he'll to have to compromise.

It's a pretty big thing to ask someone to go along with imho. Should he be okay with sending his children to a Catholic school where they'll be taught things that he disagrees with because that's been happening long before his time? Were his children to be mistreated in such an institution should he be happy for the local bishop to move along the offender to a different parish because that's what's happened in the past?

The wedding day really is the girls day, he should go with the flow. Stupid principles over the behaviour of the church have no priority over making the day special; if he wants to be principled then he should ban guests from drinking alcohol for the day.

Having principles is stupid? :eek:

IMHO, the less little girls are encouraged to see a wedding day as a chance to be a fairy princess and the more they're encouraged to see it for the binding legal commitment of joining one to their partner, the more likely it is for marriages to succeed. How many marriages are starting off on a sour note because the woman has behaved like a "bridezilla" for 6 months before the day or because the couple have taken on a huge debt to pay for "the most important day of a girl's life"?

And where did the OP say anything about her fiancé's beliefs on the consumption of alcohol?

sbsquarepants

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm with the op on this. The church is irrelevant as at this stage it is more ceremonial than anything. The guy just wants to make some sort of political protest against the church. Somebody should break the news to him that not having a wedding in church won't have any effect or make any statement. .

It will have the effect of him not feeling like a hypocrite on his big day, well worth doing if you ask me.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The wedding day really is the girls day, he should go with the flow. Stupid principles over the behaviour of the church have no priority over making the day special;.

That may have sounded romantic in your head or something, but in reality it's just whipped. It's his wedding too, it shouldn't be just about the bride (and certainly not about her mother)

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

if he wants to be principled then he should ban guests from drinking alcohol for the day.

That would make sense, if he had some sort of point to make about alcohol. But seeing as his issue is with the catholic church, it's a complete nonsense suggestion.

OP, I personally wouldn't get married in a church for the very same reason as your boyfriend, i would feel that the churches involvement had tarnished the day. To be perfectly honest i feel it would cheapen the whole event to the point where i would just rather not bother. Hardly a great start to a marriage!

LittleBook

My sister believes in God but not in religion. She and her husband married in the Unitarian Church in Dublin (I think there are others around the country) by a wonderful woman in a beautiful ceremony.

Their motto is:

Love is the doctrine of this church, the quest of truth is its sacrament and service is its prayer. To dwell together in peace. To seek knowledge in freedom. To serve humankind in fellowship to the end that all souls shall grow in harmony with the divine this do we covenant with each other and with God.

I think this could be a good compromise/solution for you both.

Neyite

if you do manage to get your partner to agree to a church wedding there is also the issue of the compulsory pre-marraige course, usually ran by the priest or lay people working on behalf of the church.

if he hates the church, i cant see him agreeing to partake in that.

the unitarian church might be a good compromise, or else have a civil ceremony and a separate church blessing instead.

Mighty_Mouse

why cant he just forget about his qualms if he doesnt believe in it anyway and just go along with it

Born & raised a catholic, regular atendendee until about 15yrs old..........................couldn't even consider getting married in a catholic church. Would be a dealbreaker.

Standing, kneeling, bowing whilst muttering some nonsensical gibberish about holy ghosts, renouncing devils under the bed, believing that some Lidl wine is blood & that whatever advice some 70 yr old virgin man who's organisation systematically raped & abused generations of innocent children, by preying on poor uneducated peoples ignorance, who's organisation is currently fighting tooth and nail using every legal weapon at their disposal to humilate & torture victims seeking closure, who's damages I'm now part paying, who's leader actively discourages the use of condoms in africa, a continent which is dying, where millions of people could be saved if the cycle of preying on poor peoples ignorance could be broken, just this once, an organisation who stigmatises millions of homosexuals as somehow evil?......................................................................can teach me about morailty, love, forgiveness, compassion................could contribute in any way to the commitment I'm willing to make to my future partner for life?...............nah, no thanks jeebus.............

I'm with yer bf on this one op

IrishEyes19

Mighty_Mouse wrote: »

Born & raised a catholic, regular atendendee until about 15yrs old..........................couldn't even consider getting married in a catholic church. Would be a dealbreaker.

Standing, kneeling, bowing whilst muttering some nonsensical gibberish about holy ghosts, renouncing devils under the bed, believing that some Lidl wine is blood & that whatever advice some 70 yr old virgin man who's organisation systematically raped & abused generations of innocent children, by preying on poor uneducated peoples ignorance, who's organisation is currently fighting tooth and nail using every legal weapon at their disposal to humilate & torture victims seeking closure, who's damages I'm now part paying, who's leader actively discourages the use of condoms in africa, a continent which is dying, where millions of people could be saved if the cycle of preying on poor peoples ignorance could be broken, just this once, an organisation who stigmatises millions of homosexuals as somehow evil?......................................................................can teach me about morailty, love, forgiveness, compassion................could contribute in any way to the commitment I'm willing to make to my future partner for life?...............nah, no thanks jeebus.............

I'm with yer bf on this one op

You can't paint every priest with the same brush.

Fair enough if he doesn't believe in it. I don't dispute that. But his OH has the right to get married in the church if she wants to. Should work both ways. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Shouldnt knock people for still being Catholic, Protestant and so on....just because people in the catholic church are corrupt, doesnt mean they all are, and thats pretty poor taste describing it as Lidl wine by the way....its the symbolic changing of the wine, not the actual wine, an re-acting of the past. I respect your beliefs by the way, you should do the same for others and not make a joke of theirs. thanks!!

@OP, perhaps explain the reasons why you'd like a traditional church wedding, I can understand he might not go with it. So its a tough battle. But maybe disclosing your reasons for it will give him some insight. However, if you feel you can do without the church, perhaps take that option then, important thing is that you enjoy this day together really. Make it memorable. All the best

Zen65

ladygrey wrote: »

It is the church building and the religious angle.

Compromise? You could probably find a converted church or convent to marry in with a civil ceremony. For example there's Kylemore Abbey (Galway), Temple Gate Hotel (Ennis), Ashfield House (Dublin), Church bar & nightclub (Dublin - Jervis Street) etc.

A good compromise is a good start to married life!!!


Be at peace,

Z

IrishEyes19

Zen65 wrote: »

Compromise? You could probably find a converted church or convent to marry in with a civil ceremony. For example there's Kylemore Abbey (Galway), Temple Gate Hotel (Ennis), Ashfield House (Dublin), Church bar & nightclub (Dublin - Jervis Street) etc.

A good compromise is a good start to married life!!!


Be at peace,

Z

Kylemore Abbey is beautiful actually. Really nice suggestion!

ladygrey

OP Here.

Big thanks for the suggestions to everyone.

It is a bit of a tightrope to walk. It being meaningful for both of us. The idea of it being an empty ceremony for Bf in a church has made me think more about it.

I mainly think that it is a reactionary response from Bf, and a stand on a point of principal as down in the pub there are many sessions about the current state of Catholic Church. He's got strong views on it - and he is STILL quite spiritual if you can be said to be both at the same time.

I'm not a fairy tale lover though, and I won't be wanting a white dress and flowers and all that fuss. Just a simple ceremony. Still I'm qiute puzzled.

More suggestions welcome...

Mighty_Mouse

if your BF feels strongly then surely compromise means ye both give up something to meet in the middle, not just you getting what you want?

You can't paint every priest with the same brush

Sheesh, if I hear that one more time!!
I'm sure there were some really decent, kind, brilliant individual germans in the 1940's who were just deeply commited Fascists.
The benefit of nationalism, belief in the community as opposed to the individual.........etc...........but ya gotta say...........at the end of the day, ya know,.................Nazism didn't contribute a whole lot but misery.

erm.....hate to be the one to erm ..........this is awkward..........but....here we go......yeah the whole blood thing.................

and thats pretty poor taste describing it as Lidl wine by the way....its the symbolic changing of the wine, not the actual wine, an re-acting of the past.

...erm.........
# Catholics - transubstantiation - lidl wine = actual jesus body& blood from the actual jeebus from the actual cross .........ya i know....crazy right?..(religion teacher could never tell me if I was a cannibal or not)

# Lutherian (Martin Luther) - consubstantiation!? -lidl wine = essence or substance of jesus in the blood............. Slightly more reasonable if you ask me, but hardly worth falling out over? ....................hmmmm..........nope, it kicked off the reformation which resulted in millions of poor peasants slaughtered since the 1500's in wars or plain ol torture: burned alive, having your guts & testicles ripped out slowly, heads & limbs chopped off..........great craic really ....as if being dirt poor in the 1600's wasnt bad enough.

Prostestant = sermonial ..........ok after a lot of crazy I think things settled down to this. I always found the protestants a fairly reasonable bunch tbh. Less plot-holes in their choice of fairytale. Less boy-raping in a religion where priest can marry too, which is a good thing.

And yes it is actually Lidl wine.
I worked as an altar boy for a cpl of years. The priest always kept the good stuff back at the gaff.

Apololiges, if I've dragged this thread into the whole relgion debate.
If your BF feels strongly & his reasons are any of the above, the you will understand why he is miserable on your wedding day.

Disclaimer: there might be a few slightly skewed details .......but you get the gist.

dudara

I'm going to respectfully ask posters to drop all the discussion about the Catholic Church - it is mainly irrelevant here. What I see as being important about this post is how this couple will overcome this problem together.

OP - you need to sit with your partner and arrive at a solution that both of you are comfortable with. You also need to address these questions as you plan your life together i.e. children, education etc.

How you decide this will act as a foundation for problem solving in your relationship.

Ickle Magoo

I agree with dudara - this isn't just about a wedding. Do you envisage christenings, confirmations, etc? You need to sit down and discuss these things and lay all of your cards on the table and thrash out a compromise and plan of action for these things so you both know where you stand - or it's just going to keep cropping up at various junctures.

Would he go and speak to your local priest and tell him his concerns, anger and disappointment? I'm sure they are well used to parishioners having a crises with regards to their support of the RCC. Would you consider getting married in a church of a different faith? We got married in a de-consecrated chapel as part of an estate house which meant it felt churchy but wasn't - have a look around and see what you can find. Changes in civil ceremony legislation has meant that the choice is no longer just between church or registry office.

All the best

28064212

OP, why do you want to get married in the church? You've explained why your OH doesn't want to get married in one, but you haven't explained why you do want to (beyond a vague notion that you won't "feel" married).

There are, essentially, 4 different aspects to a marriage:

1. Within your relationship - a (personal) commitment to each other
2. Legal - a commitment in the eyes of the state
3. Public ceremonial - a pronouncement to friends, family and the public in general of your commitment to each other
4. Spiritual/religious - depends on your beliefs, but generally speaking, a commitment in the eyes of God (or any other deity)

1 and 2 are obviously extremely important, and most people would consider 3 to be very important too. All 3 are covered by any sort of (legally-recognised) ceremony. 4 is very important to some people, completely meaningless to others, and in some cases (such as your fiance's), getting married in a particular religious ceremony is something they actively oppose.

You have to decide how important the religious aspect is to you. And it is solely about the religious side of it, not anything else. Your mother can be at your side in any type of wedding, you can have a big fairytale wedding, you can have a small intimate wedding, but those aren't about the religious side. You have to ask yourself: is it important that you make a commitment in the eyes of God? And more specifically: is it important that you make a commitment in the eyes of what the Catholic Church defines as God?

If the answer to the first question is "yes" and the second is "no", you can come with your own ceremony, borrowing heavily from the Catholic one if you wish, but the church factor is irrelevant. If the answer to both questions is "no", then you only have the relationship, public and legal aspects to consider, the entire religious aspect is irrelevant. In fact, it would be downright disrespectful to both the Catholic Church, the priest and genuine believers alike to be married in a church.

If the answer to both questions is "yes", then you and your fiance have a problem. Not just with the wedding, but, as Ickle Magoo pointed out, how you're going to raise kids, how you're going to live your life together any time the religious aspect comes up

Sleepy

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

...and thats pretty poor taste describing it as Lidl wine by the way....its the symbolic changing of the wine, not the actual wine, an re-acting of the past.

Nope, not symbolic, the genuine belief that the wine magically transforms into the blood of their deity (called transubstantiation).

The fact so many 'Catholics' in this country don't hold this belief actually makes them more Protestant in their beliefs than Catholic (Transubstantiation being one of the principle differences between the sects beliefs) but most are utterly loathe to admit it due to the republican slant of our education system / sectarian past.

OP: The unitarian church suggestion was a good one imho if your boyfriend still holds with Christian beliefs but has problems with the institution of the RCC.

IrishEyes19

Sleepy wrote: »

Nope, not symbolic, the genuine belief that the wine magically transforms into the blood of their deity (called transubstantiation).

The fact so many 'Catholics' in this country don't hold this belief actually makes them more Protestant in their beliefs than Catholic (Transubstantiation being one of the principle differences between the sects beliefs) but most are utterly loathe to admit it due to the republican slant of our education system / sectarian past.

OP: The unitarian church suggestion was a good one imho if your boyfriend still holds with Christian beliefs but has problems with the institution of the RCC.

Sorry,Sleepy, didn't really explain what I meant. As in I meant the re-inaction of the changing the bread and wine is symbolic of what was done in the past, my mistake there!!!

I was merely replying to how distasteful it is to mock peoples' beliefs and to say "lidl" wine - well thats pretty poor taste in my opinion. Many religions have different processions and acts throughout their church practices and it would be taken very badly if I or someone mocked other faiths beliefs. In fact if I were to say anything against the Jewish faith or Islamic faith, Id have a warrant on my head, and rightly so, people are entitled to believe what they want without ignorant comments. So I think its bad form altogether to be ignorant and use such terms for the changing of the wine and bread.

Nevyn

Right there was a Mod warning already and if anyone else starts discussion relgion rather then helping the op reach a comprimise with thier partner there will be bans.

gimme5minutes

Thaedydal wrote: »

Right there was a Mod warning already and if anyone else starts discussion relgion rather then helping the op reach a comprimise with thier partner there will be bans.

This is a thread about marriage vows where the issue is that the bf has strong anti-Catholic Church views. Yet people are supposed to avoid talking around the religion issue...the thing that is central to the thread, eh what? Of course people's views on religion and the church are relevant, some people are pro religion, some are anti, it would be best if the OP could hear from both, it would certainly be of some help to her to hear the views of some anti-religion posters so that she might have a better understanding of where her bf is coming from.

Btw, why are mods so into putting warning on threads, and limiting the scope of discussions on boards these days? A thread dealing with religion where religion is not allowed to be discussed, you have to admit this is ridiculous.

Elle Collins

I would never get married in a church either OP, and if my partner felt that getting married in a church was more important than the marriage itself, well he wouldn't be getting married to me anyway.

My reasons are the same as your partners. Most people havent read the Ryan and Murphy reports. Of those of us who have, most will never darken the door of a church again, much less get married in one.

MistyCheese

People keep declaring whether or not they would get married in a church - which couldn't be lesss relevant. The OP here has said that she would like to get married in a church and that is her choice. The problem is that the other half of this couple does not want to get married in a church, which is just as much his choice.

If it's important to you that the marriage be blessed by a priest could you possibly have a civil ceremony and also a blessing? That way you go through with a ceremony that, for you, is lacking something (the civil ceremony) and he goes through a ceremony that, for him, doesn't mean very much (the blessing). But you both get something that you do want. You get the marriage blessed by a priest and he gets to tell his friends down the pub that he didn't get married in a church.

If he is being anti-Catholic just for the sake of it and refuses to compromise then you have to consider how the two of you will resolve issues in the future. Going back to the Christening/Communion/Conformation thing again, another one is what if one of your children wants to marry in a church in the fullness of time? Surely he won't refuse your daughter a walk down the aisle if it's something that's important to her?

Is your partner aware of how you feel? Does he just expect you to just go along with what he wants? If you are a Catholic and he is anti-Catholic then this must have come up when you discuss marriage.

Ickle Magoo

gimme5minutes wrote: »

This is a thread about marriage vows where the issue is that the bf has strong anti-Catholic Church views. Yet people are supposed to avoid talking around the religion issue...the thing that is central to the thread, eh what? Of course people's views on religion and the church are relevant, some people are pro religion, some are anti, it would be best if the OP could hear from both, it would certainly be of some help to her to hear the views of some anti-religion posters so that she might have a better understanding of where her bf is coming from.

Btw, why are mods so into putting warning on threads, and limiting the scope of discussions on boards these days? A thread dealing with religion where religion is not allowed to be discussed, you have to admit this is ridiculous.

The main issue is about couples compromising - what the church has done and why the bf feels the way he does is largely irrelevant - the fact is he does feel that way - what would be useful and what the OP asked was if anyone else had experienced similar and how this couple can move on from that and work out a compromise.

This isn't a discussion thread - it's an advice thread, if you want a discussion about religion then there are appropriate forums for you to do so. If you wish to comment on moderator requests, pm the PI mods - please don't drag some else's request for advice off topic by commenting on moderation on their thread.

Thanks

Ickle

iguana

ladygrey wrote: »

The idea of it being an empty ceremony for Bf in a church has made me think more about it.

Obviously I'm not your BF but if I had felt like I "had" to get married in a church for family or partner I wouldn't have felt it was an empty ceremony, I would have felt utterly, utterly sickened to my core. Even imagining it now over 4 years after my civil wedding in a cool castle makes me feel awful. It wouldn't have ruined my marriage because I am a firm believer that in the grand scheme of a marriage a wedding is no more than one day out of many thousand, but I would have been so, so unhappy about it and I would regret it so hard whenever I'd look back on it.

Maybe you feel like that about not getting married in a church? I think you should examine exactly how important the church aspect is to you (forget your mother or anyone else) and what it is that's important. Once you can articulate that, talk to your BF and find out exactly how he feels. Then take your time and see what sort of compromise you can make.

There are lots and lots of options for legal weddings, in lots of venues with all different types of spirituality included. I'm sure if you both want it enough you can find a compromise.

But much more important than the wedding is discussing future scenarios like children and education. I can imagine some scenarios where I just might have been willing to marry in a church. I will never, ever, ever baptise my children. That's their decision to make when they are old enough and that would be a subject that would destroy my marriage if my husband felt differently.

carolmon

MistyCheese wrote: »

That way you go through with a ceremony that, for you, is lacking something (the civil ceremony) and he goes through a ceremony that, for him, doesn't mean very much (the blessing). But you both get something that you do want. You get the marriage blessed by a priest and he gets to tell his friends down the pub that he didn't get married in a church.

Why do you presume that the ceremony doesn't mean very much to the OP's partner?? And that the real reason he refuses to get married in church is to impress his friend's down the pub??

I think this thinking negates the depth of feeling so many people have about the Church in Ireland and the level of feeling that the revelations contained in the Ryan report and others have brought to the fore in many (including practicing Catholics)

Many people feel that to continue to participate in the chiurch as it is with the likes of Cardinal Brady etc in positions of power somehow condones the abuse that has gone on.

This is really a strong moral position for a lot of people, not just something they don't care about or think is cool to reject (as you implied)

If it was a simple matter of the OP's partner going along with something he didn't really feel strongly about well then problem solved!
But this sounds like the OP's partner feels very strongly against marrying in church, so why should they have to go along with this just to keep their partner happy?