March Against An Garda Siochanna

shofukan

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=139824556067366

Mods, not quite sure if this is in the right place.

Brought to you by the same people who started riots at the student march!
I'm worried it'll draw attention away from the march itself, demeaning what it was (which in my opinion they did by 'rioting').
Opinions on this?

johngalway

Of all the people to march against, and being mindful of their failings and limitations, the cops are far, far down that list.

Pathetic, that would be my opinion of it.

Bobby42

i don't think there's anything they won't protest against. seems like their solution to everything is to have a march.
i wonder if they aren't happy with the way the gardai police this march will they have another march called
"peaceful protest at garda brutality at the peaceful protest at garda brutality protest - march to to pearse street (again)"

longhalloween

Love the 'No more Garda attacks'.

You'd swear they were being dragged outta their beds in the middle of the night.

shofukan

Would also like to say I'm not liking that it's happening but anyway..

People who seem interested (from chatting) seem mostly to not have been there on the 3rd. They're just jumping on the bandwagon.
That does rather annoy me that they want in on something they had nothing to do with and that the thing they want in on will undo the good work of the student march! (little or great as it may have been)

RedDawn

Meh, expect this when the Gardaí beat the wrong people and dump unconscious people on the street..

Seriously, the eirigí feckers must be enjoying themselves knowing that they threw eggs and bricks, a whole load of USI students (as well as the SWPers in the building) took the beatings for them, AND there is outrage in some quarters.

The Gardaí should have known better, it's not like they were getting shot at.

The Volt

longhalloween wrote: »

Love the 'No more Garda attacks'.

You'd swear they were being dragged outta their beds in the middle of the night.

It happened once. Once is too many times. The majority of people there were staging a peaceful sit-in and the Gardai treated them with the force and brutality that only the looneys in Eirigi etc deserved.

southsiderosie

Hm, I thought this part of the facebook announcement was interesting:

**THIS DEMONSTRATION HAS BEEN CALLED BY STUDENTS FROM THE FREE EDUCATION FOR EVERYONE AND STUDENTS IN SOLIDARITY NETWORKS. IT IS A RESPONSE TO THE VIOLENCE DEALT OUT TO HUNDREDS OF USI STUDENTS ON THE STREETS OF DUBLIN BY THE PUBLIC ORDER UNIT.

WE ASK POLITICAL GROUPS NOT TO BRING INDIVIDUAL BANNERS AND FLAGS, BUT FOR ALL TO COME AND STAND TOGETHER TO MAKE IT CLEAR WE WILL NOT BE BULLIED OFF THE STREET**

Will people leave the eirigi, SWP and Palestinian flags at home? That may be a first.

gandalf

And what are the odds that the thugs in Eirigi hijack this "demonstration" again?

I suppose it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "They're onto a beating for nothing"!

mgmt

Voltwad wrote: »

It happened once. Once is too many times. The majority of people there were staging a peaceful sit-in and the Gardai treated them with the force and brutality that only the looneys in Eirigi etc deserved.

Peaceful sit-in? Are you high???

When bottles, bricks etc. are being thrown at the police, you don't sit down in front of the culprits. That is the definition of being a retard.

RedDawn

mgmt wrote: »

Peaceful sit-in? Are you high???

When bottles, bricks etc. are being thrown at the police, you don't sit down in front of the culprits. That is the definition of being a retard.

A lot of that had stopped when the sitdown outside started, though obviously it hadn't ceased entirely and got worse once the Gardaí started.

Besides, people walking by, not knowing what was going on, of course some of them are going to join what they think is an adhoc protest against fees....

Augmerson

I don't think I've ever seen a more apathetic response to a doomed situation than the one we are currently in to be frank and though I am glad to see people willing to march for something but this distracts from the real problems the country is facing.

mgmt

RedDawn wrote: »

A lot of that had stopped when the sitdown outside started, though obviously it hadn't ceased entirely and got worse once the Gardaí started.

Besides, people walking by, not knowing what was going on, of course some of them are going to join what they think is an adhoc protest against fees....

If someone is attacking a Garda (especially a group affiliated with the IRA), I would not sit down between them. Blocking the Gardai from doing their job in arresting them. I would expect a baton on the head. These students were idiots.

RedDawn

mgmt wrote: »

If someone is attacking a Garda (especially a group affiliated with the IRA), I would not sit down between them. Blocking the Gardai from doing their job in arresting them. I would expect a baton on the head. These students were idiots.

Except most or all of the Eirigí banners had disappeared at that point (might have been inside).

Even if the dissident Republicans were wearing balaclavas and uniforms with IRA on the back of them, the students shouldn't have been touched.
The Gardaí are there to protect the peace, not beat innocent (regardless of stupidity) people for participating in a protest that extremists hijacked.

mgmt

RedDawn wrote: »

Except most or all of the Eirigí banners had disappeared at that point (might have been inside).

Even if the dissident Republicans were wearing balaclavas and uniforms with IRA on the back of them, the students shouldn't have been touched.
The Gardaí are there to protect the peace, not beat innocent (regardless of stupidity) people for participating in a protest that extremists hijacked.

No they were no longer innocent. They were preventing the course of justice.

djsomers

Hijacking the student protest was disgraceful. The gardai did an excellent job in my opinion.

The Volt

djsomers wrote: »

Hijacking the student protest was disgraceful. The gardai did an excellent job in my opinion.

It could be considered a job well done if we were living in a police state. Charging horses and garda dogs at what was, for the most part a non-violent demonstration was downright sick.

PCPhoto

mgmt wrote: »

No they were no longer innocent. They were preventing the course of justice.

I would have to disagree there..... they probably didnt understand properly what was going on - if they had known they were between the gardai and the eirigi peoples then maybe they would have left the area.

like another poster said ... maybe some students thought it was an adhoc protest against education.

mikemac

Why is it that at a protest about the gardaí we are guaranteed to see Palestinian flags there.
Must be the fashionable cause

Can't they organize their own march

mgmt

PCPhoto wrote: »

I would have to disagree there..... they probably didnt understand properly what was going on - if they had known they were between the gardai and the eirigi peoples then maybe they would have left the area.

like another poster said ... maybe some students thought it was an adhoc protest against education.

Did they have their eyes closed? Missles were being thrown. They were no longer innocent bystanders.

electrogrimey

I believe this (or a march like it) is an important march, although it's reputation and turnout will be very much tarnished by the people running it.

Many different protests recently have ended in aggressive action by the Garda, most prominently this, and the Shell To Sea protests, and it would be a major problem if the general people of Ireland were too frightened of police brutality to show their dissatisfaction with the government.

The tinfoil hat part of me thinks that it's a deliberate policy on behalf of the Government to encourage this violence in order to stop the people protesting.

southsiderosie

mgmt wrote: »

No they were no longer innocent. They were preventing the course of justice.

By sitting down?

I think the people who participated in the sit-down were naive. I wouldn't commit to that kind of tactic unless I was absolutely sure that 1) everyone involved was committed to non-violence, including throwing things and scuffling with the police and 2) I was willing to take an arrest. The latter is something that a lot of people who engage in civil disobedience seem to forget these days: yes you ARE breaking the law, so you can't complain if you get arrested, and you should take your arrest with dignity. Then if you or someone in the group gets cracked over the head, you at least have more of a case.

Denerick

What a stupid idea.

This will be attended by at the very most 300 people, the same 300 twats who get rolled out anytime the delusional and self righteous get a chance to air their grievance and alienate the mainstream moderates who will decide the next general election.

Relevance called and it left a message - get a life.

RedDawn

mgmt wrote: »

No they were no longer innocent. They were preventing the course of justice.

You are clearly ignorant of what constitutes a crime then.
You need a mens rea and an actus reus.

The students didn't sit down to block the Gardaí, they sat down to protest fees. They did so with absolutely no intention of helping the extremists and the proof of that is that many were wearing USI t-shirts, which the extremists wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

The Gardaí could have probably went around and caught the throwers to boot, while the street was pretty full, the sitters were not on all sides.

The Volt

mgmt wrote: »

Did they have their eyes closed? Missles were being thrown. They were no longer innocent bystanders.

So if some scumbag robs someone's phone at a bus stop, everyone else on the street is guilty of the crime as well?

mgmt

Voltwad wrote: »

So if some scumbag robs someone's phone at a bus stop, everyone else on the street is guilty of the crime as well?

Yes, if they sit down and block the gardai from arresting the scumbag.

RedDawn

mgmt wrote: »

Yes, if they sit down and block the gardai from arresting the scumbag.

Except that comparison isn't the same, there is no political element and you're still missing the fact that the Gardaí could have gone around..

The Volt

mgmt wrote: »

Yes, if they sit down and block the gardai from arresting the scumbag.

They were there to show discontent. The majority chose to do so in a non-violent fashion. It would be unrealistic to ask everyone else to forget about why they're angry just because a few idiots threw a few eggs.

mgmt

Voltwad wrote: »

They were there to show discontent. The majority chose to do so in a non-violent fashion. It would be unrealistic to ask everyone else to forget about why they're angry just because a few idiots threw a few eggs.

I'm not saying they had to leave, just that they shouldn't moan about getting their heads cracked with a baton. The police were justified in this occasion.

The Volt

mgmt wrote: »

I'm not saying they had to leave, just that they shouldn't moan about getting their heads cracked with a baton. The police were justified in this occasion.

I find it scary that that's your and AGS' take on 'keeping the peace'.

Fo Real

This latest march is beyond parody. The Palestinian flag business must be making a fortune.

Dublinstiofán

The gards obviously didn't hit them hard enough. Since they need to go back for second helpings.

EDIT: Repremanded for Breach of the Peace by boards :rolleyes:

What i was merely suggesting is that any student (being a student myself) that turns up for this is an idiot and they deserve whatever they get.

RedDawn

mgmt wrote: »

I'm not saying they had to leave, just that they shouldn't moan about getting their heads cracked with a baton. The police were justified in this occasion.

Let's take this to its logical conclusion shall we?

If the police were being shot at, would the Gardaí be justified in shooting all the protesters?

Denerick

RedDawn wrote: »

Let's take this to its logical conclusion shall we?

If the police were being shot at, would the Gardaí be justified in shooting all the protesters?

Lets take this to its silly conclusion, shall we?

If the parrots were being talked to, would the pandas be justified in maiming them?

If the carrots were being chewed on, would the parsnips deserve a slicing?

If the monkeys were shouted at, would the elephants deserve another apple pie?

These are equally relevant and important questions.

electrogrimey

This march is definitely quite ridiculous, and won't have any power.

A similar march organized by the USI or a less radical, more respected, group, I would fully support though.

I'd love to see police brutality at a peaceful protest against police brutality. That'd have to have repercussions.

The Volt

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

The gards obviously didn't hit them hard enough. Since they need to go back for second helpings.

Can I have your badge number please?

The Volt

It's also very important to remember here that the gardai clearly weren't obstructed from entering the building. Many videos online show them inside the Dept. of Finance.

RedDawn

Denerick wrote: »

These are equally relevant and important questions.

Clearly you don't understand the concept of a rhetorical question.
Congratulations.

drunkmonkey

RedDawn wrote: »

Let's take this to its logical conclusion

This is a daft protest!

RedDawn

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is a daft protest!

Pretty much, but God help us the day that daftness means you get beaten and dumped on the street by the Gardaí.

Overheal

southsiderosie wrote: »

By sitting down?

(3) Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty or a person assisting a peace officer in the execution of his duty, knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0019.html

RedDawn wrote:

The students didn't sit down to block the Gardaí, they sat down to protest fees.

knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is

Voltwad wrote:

It's also very important to remember here that the gardai clearly weren't obstructed from entering the building. Many videos online show them inside the Dept. of Finance.

Do those videos show them approaching the Department of Finance in the first place? And are you conveniently forgetting the videos of the crowd outside the Department of Finance after the AGS gained control of the entrance?


This rally will amount to farce, by the way. I just hope enough smart people, amateur journalists, batmen whathaveyou have the wherewithal to tape this thing in continuation from beginning to end (Tape it from the roofs please!), and to have the objectivity not to crop the video to "just the conveniently useful bits". Because I wager that the protesters will throw the first stone.

Denerick

RedDawn wrote: »

Pretty much, but God help us the day that daftness means you get beaten and dumped on the street by the Gardaí.

Frankly I'd love to send you off to Burma for a week to learn first hand what real police brutality looks like.

RedDawn

knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is

By the time the Gardaí moved in, things were far calmer.
It was far from reckless to a reasonable person in the context of a peaceful protest.

Denerick

RedDawn wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand the concept of a rhetorical question.
Congratulations.

Actually all of my questions were rhetorical questions, based on similarily slippy and silly presumptions as your own, with little logical connection or grounding in reality. So I grasped the concept of your little gambit pretty well, I think, to turn it on its head and reveal its true intellectual merit.

Overheal

@Voltwad calling it "sick" is a bit of an over-reaction no? At best you've never seen what police brutality actually looks like. Or for that matter, even what "typical" riot control is. I don't know what was so "sick" about having the dogs there, really.

By the time the Gardaí moved in, things were far calmer.
It was far from reckless to a reasonable person in the context of a peaceful protest.

That is not the correct definition of "Reckless" in that context. Reckless as in Oblivious; Ignorant to the fact that they were obstructing a peace officer. See perhaps also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recklessness_%28law%29

RedDawn

Denerick wrote: »

Frankly I'd love to send you off to Burma for a week to learn first hand what real police brutality looks like.

I've been teargassed and had concussion grenades shot at me by the Israeli army. Not particularly in need of a trip to Burma, thanks.

Denerick

RedDawn wrote: »

I've been teargassed and had concussion grenades shot at me by the Israeli army. Not particularly in need of a trip to Burma, thanks.

Sure you weren't confusing your life with someone out of Marvel Comics?

RedDawn

Denerick wrote: »

Sure you weren't confusing your life with someone out of Marvel Comics?

No, perhaps you're mistaking yourself for a comedian.

charlemont

sure yea, blame it all on the guards..

Sod'o swords

Think i'll go down and attack the marchers. See how they react when the very people they're marching against stop me to protect them.

RedDawn

charlemont wrote: »

sure yea, blame it all on the guards..

I blame it all on Eirigi and condemn whoever was commanding the Guards for not having some bloody restraint.