Three reasons why the unemployed should do FAS' Work Placement Programme

Mr. Loverman

1. I know a couple of employers who employ people who have been doing FAS' Work Placement Programme ahead of those who haven't.
2. First reason why - it suggests motivation and a positive attitude to working.
3. Second reason why - it is better to have 6 months experience than 6 months dole receipts.

I understand on principle you may think the WPP is "wrong" but employer's see it as a good thing on your CV.

Martron

i went down the college route but..... if anything it also gets you experience and also out of the house.


i think we have to get it out of our heads that employers are getting cheap labout. if anything it will also create opportunites and open doors into areas you want to work.

if anything you are expanding your network especially these days where many jobs are found by who you know rather than what you apply for.

flash1080

Why should someone coming out of college, after spending 4 years acquiring skills, join the dole for €150/week while working for nothing for companies that are making billions of euro in profit? Minimum wage for a skilled person isn't a lot to ask, it's fairly pathetic still though. People would be better off going to stack shelves and do unskilled work if they can get a job instead of college because they'll earn more. Or else emigrate.

People are spending four years in college acquiring skills and are then being encouraged to join the dole and work for free - paid by taxes from people who are working (whose jobs might be at risk) and doing work that would normally be a paying gig.

FÁS WPP and IBEC Gradlink are a complete joke.

gerrycollins

while the principal of the project is nobel and does differenciate the wasters from the more serious the reality is different. My wife and I were both subject to wpp however considering that there is nothin extra we have worked out the we could not afford to partake.

If both of us are "forced" to do one ie we could lose our entitlement if we refuse, we can not afford the travel and with three kids thats an added hassle. We asked FAS about our situation and the only answer we got is "you may lose your dole if you dont partake"

thankfully I got a good paying job so that threat is no longer hanging over me.

Sparky Toast

Yeah, when rent + bills + groceries are added up, how the hell am I meant to survive in a job that pays nothing?

The WPPs and JobFit programme might be a lovely idea for people that have lots of money and/or live in the city, but what about people that don't? They're asking people like me to spend 9/12 months working in a job that pays absolutely nothing and forces me to spend my savings to keep the job. I would be paying to go to work.

IMO, these schemes have taken away all the paying entry level roles that would normally be available. I'm a graduate, but no, I'm not one with a sense of entitlement. I know I have to work my way up from the bottom. The problem is, these schemes end up putting you in a position where I have to pay to work an entry level job. That's the bottom line.

And they wonder why people are emigrating.

looksee

I can see both sides of the argument on this but I'll just make a couple of points. One is that it is just within living memory that you had to pay for an apprenticeship - including training in a shop.

The second is that you are not necessarily employable in your field when you leave college, which is why employers usually want one or two years' experience. Better to have the opportunity to get that experience while being on the dole than being on the dole and doing nothing.

I do agree there is some dodgy stuff going on looking for qualified, experienced people to do these jobs. I do not think that is what the scheme intended, but of course it is not being properly policed. If people wish to work rather than stay at home then fine, but I can see how transport, clothing, etc could mount up.

Scambuster

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

1. I know a couple of employers who employ people who have been doing FAS' Work Placement Programme ahead of those who haven't.
2. First reason why - it suggests motivation and a positive attitude to working.
3. Second reason why - it is better to have 6 months experience than 6 months dole receipts.

I understand on principle you may think the WPP is "wrong" but employer's see it as a good thing on your CV.

So it is just a race to the bottom for employees. Who will do the most **** for free? Will the WPP create any jobs?

cedissapointed

THE GREAT EMPLOYMENT ROBBERY FAS ROBBING PAID JOBS FROM THE PUBLIC.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/End-the-FAS-work-place-programme-WWP1-WWP2/109792949040367

FAS have been responsible for robbing the community(the unemployed they proport to help) of full time paid tax returnable jobs for years.FAS free labour has stolen jobs from the community while draining 1 Billion from our community.Semi State agencies like FAS have no respect for the community they steal jobs from.They have cut the FAS wage rate to that of the dole.FAS is a vampire state agency stealing from our working class public,they even employ ex - cons on FAS.Do you want FAS experience to smear your name.

Not one graduate was employed as a result of doing these FAS courses.

I cannot believe how stupid our DAIL must be to let this fiasco continue,FAS are in the process of getting a name change and more money for their FAS officials(like they dont get paid enough) and their further junkets and meetings to brainstorm over the FAS new name?Paul o Toole the new exec(what FAS is really about) gets a new car,and a clap on the back from the minister,and a nice lump sum to start him on his merry way,while consigning some working class members of the public to a life time of poverty and free labour.

Be under no illusion FAS is no friend of the unemployed yet they are VERY MUCH a friend of Fianna Fail and their so called rivals Fine Gael.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97583?comment_order=asc&userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

How can FAS be honestly reformed when our Dail clearly has not been reformed,it is just going to be the same old quango with the same status quo,just like those decrepid agencies manpower and anco which they already changed names from.

Whatever about 'principle' my point is if you DO A FAS COURSE PREPARE FOR YOUR GOOD NAME TO BE SMEARED.

NOT ONE GRADUATE FROM FAS WAS HIRED READ HERE http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfkfojidauid/rss2/




FAS also offer no job protection,they have one of their offices with free trade workers in SIPTU and even encouage you to join siptu for a small fee off your dole!

Don't let FAS jobs replace full time jobs all over the country do not underestimate the stupidity of government. http://thestory.ie/2010/09/06/fas-funds-and-siptuictu/


http://thestory.ie/2010/05/14/fas-bulletin-board-and-expenses/




THE BOTTOM LINE IS; WHO WILL HIRE YOU WHEN THEY HAVE YOUR FAS ASS FOR FREE??
FAS DOES NOT OPEN DOORS IT TAKES OPPURTUNITIES FROM YOU AND ME,DO YOU THINK SOME BUSINESS WHO APPROACHED FAS WITH FREE LABOUR IN MIND IS GOING TO TURN AROUND AND PAY YOU A WAGE.

AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED TO ONE WOMAN WAS SHE GOT HER FULL TIME JOB REPLACED BY TO FREE LABOUR CE FAS WORKERS WHO ADJOINED THE WORKPLACE SHE WAS IN..

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/90107

FAS SHOULD BE RENAMED THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY THEY ARE ALSO GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ROBBING THE FUTURES OF THE NEW GRADUATE FROM PROFESSIONAL COLLEGES IN IRELAND. AS LIKE THE THE ONES WHO DIDNT GO TO COLLEGE WILL BE OUT OF JOBS ASWELL THANKS TO FAS SUCKING UP ALL THE TAX RETURNABLE JOBS WITH FREE LABOUR.

FAS ARE NOT ABOUT HELPING YOU AND ME THEY ARE ABOUT STEALING FROM YOU AND ME.

TRAINING AND FAS EXPERIENCE CAN LEAVE SOME EMPLOYERS SKEPTICAL OF HIRING YOU!



http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/apr/12/new-fas-director-racked-up-travel-bill-of-50k-in-l/

cedissapointed

cedissapointed wrote: »

Be under no illusion FAS is no friend of the unemployed yet they are VERY MUCH a friend of Fianna Fail and their so called rivals Fine Gael.
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Lets not forget the scumbags in Labour - those bastards have fully embraced the WPP scheme the no good champagne socialists
By the way I havent seen Fine Gaels view on WPP at all - do you have a link ?

cedissapointed

FOR A REPLY AT A MORE ACCURATE ARTICLE ON THE MOTIVATIONS OF SEMI STATE AGENCIES LIKE FAS AND JOBFIT HAVE A LOOK HERE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT!:D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056081546

cedissapointed

Fianna Gael TD Tony Dempsey is now on the FAS board.

Same old **** really isn't it

Mr. Loverman

I think a few of you are missing my point.

Regardless of what you think of the WPP, employers have a positive view of those who have done it because it suggests they are motivated and hard working.

In other words, having spent 6 months on a WPP scheme will greatly enhance your chance of getting a proper job.

Scambuster

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I think a few of you are missing my point.

Regardless of what you think of the WPP, employers have a positive view of those who have done it because it suggests they are motivated and hard working.

In other words, having spent 6 months on a WPP scheme will greatly enhance your chance of getting a proper job.

Not if everybody has 6 months on the scheme.

Mr. Loverman

Scambuster wrote: »

Not if everybody has 6 months on the scheme.

Most people don't though, because they'd rather be on the dole.

gollem_1975

cedissapointed wrote: »

FOR A REPLY AT A MORE ACCURATE ARTICLE ON THE MOTIVATIONS OF SEMI STATE AGENCIES LIKE FAS AND JOBFIT HAVE A LOOK HERE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT!:D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056081546

how many jobs are YOU going to create ?

some people may boycott the fas wpp scheme on principle , but tbh many people won't meaning the latter will be more attractive to potential employers because they will have 6-9 months experience that the individuals who boycotted it won't have.

you might find the politics board a better location for these posts.

gollem_1975

Scambuster wrote: »

So it is just a race to the bottom for employees. Who will do the most **** for free? Will the WPP create any jobs?

well part of the problem is that wages were/are generally too high in this country in comparison to our competitors , other OECD countries. Some employers are in a position where they can't afford to take people on.

wage levels in this country need to readjust downwards imo.

with regard to WPP:

I would doubt that employers are placing WPP employees into business critical positions, the company that I am with would not have hired someone full-time to do the job I'm doing, yet on the other hand I would not have the requisite experience to apply for the role if it was a paid full-time position. so we are both gaining.

WPP is a temporary thing.. I for one am not going to work for the same employer for longer than 9 months on the WPP. if I am creating value for them at that stage then they'll have to employ me if they want to keep me.. and they'll want to be making positive noises about keeping me in the final months of the WPP or I will be looking elsewhere.

flash1080

gollem_1975 wrote: »

well part of the problem is that wages were/are generally too high in this country in comparison to our competitors , other OECD countries. Some employers are in a position where they can't afford to take people on.

wage levels in this country need to readjust downwards imo.

with regard to WPP:

I would doubt that employers are placing WPP employees into business critical positions, the company that I am with would not have hired someone full-time to do the job I'm doing, yet on the other hand I would not have the requisite experience to apply for the role if it was a paid full-time position. so we are both gaining.

WPP is a temporary thing.. I for one am not going to work for the same employer for longer than 9 months on the WPP. if I am creating value for them at that stage then they'll have to employ me if they want to keep me.. and they'll want to be making positive noises about keeping me in the final months of the WPP or I will be looking elsewhere.

I know of one company that made billions of dollars in profit last year who were looking for around 8 people to work for free. Those jobs would normally pay around €30k (here and abroad), and yet they won't even pay minimum wage here. There is a big difference between lowering wages to be competitive and not paying any at all.

gollem_1975

flash1080 wrote: »

I know of one company that made billions of dollars in profit last year who were looking for around 8 people to work for free. Those jobs would normally pay around €30k (here and abroad), and yet they won't even pay minimum wage here. There is a big difference between lowering wages to be competitive and not paying any at all.

you and I will never know if those 8 jobs would have been created in Ireland had it not been for WPP. That is 8 people who may or may not have got the experience to work for this company ( i'm guessing its Citrix )

I know someone working in a bank in Luxembourg (who outsourced their IT to Ireland a couple of years back) and he had heard about WPP. he didn't know it was called WPP but this made me think that WPP, while its not likely to attract MNC's here in their droves, is something that would be viewed positively by the MNC's( in addition to our corporation tax ) and is something that might help keep those 30K jobs in the country.

flash1080

gollem_1975 wrote: »

you and I will never know if those 8 jobs would have been created in Ireland had it not been for WPP. That is 8 people who may or may not have got the experience to work for this company ( i'm guessing its Citrix )

I know someone working in a bank in Luxembourg (who outsourced their IT to Ireland a couple of years back) and he had heard about WPP. he didn't know it was called WPP but this made me think that WPP, while its not likely to attract MNC's here in their droves, is something that would be viewed positively by the MNC's( in addition to our corporation tax ) and is something that might help keep those 30K jobs in the country.

It's not Citrix. I would be very surprised if they didn't create paying jobs in Ireland if getting people for free wasn't an option.

gollem_1975

flash1080 wrote: »

It's not Citrix. I would be very surprised if they didn't create paying jobs in Ireland if getting people for free wasn't an option.

I was suprised when I had the conversation with the guy from Lux that there was knowledge of WPP amongst managers at a foreign bank.

a multinational such as Citrix could create these "paying" jobs anywhere in the world so anything that makes it more attractive to stay here and create jobs is a good thing imho.

Citrix are unlikely to train someone up for 9 months and then suddenly let them go just because they could go and get another WPP person.

Companies such as Citrix are getting a way to test drive relatively inexperienced employees and have them work for free in the first few months where they are likely to be fairly unproductive.

I would imagine that decision makers in these companies would look upon this favourably.

So flash do you think u/e people (like myself) shouldn't do the WPP ?

wylo

gollem_1975 wrote: »

Citrix are unlikely to train someone up for 9 months and then suddenly let them go just because they could go and get another WPP person.

Im sorry but this is a very naive way of looking at it, that is exactly what companies are likely to do.

gollem_1975

wylo wrote: »

Im sorry but this is a very naive way of looking at it, that is exactly what some companies are likely to do.

fyp

So you don't think that the company like Citrix will value their investment in training this person up for 9 months and simply go back to an unproven and untrained unknown for the simple reason that they can get them for free on the WPP ?

Companies hire people and continue to hire them because they create value for them. If an employee was creating value for a company then it would not make much sense to let them go ?

Mr. Loverman

Obviously every employer who uses the WPP scheme is looking for free staff, that goes without saying.

But regardless it is experience on your CV and makes you look like an attractive employee.

gollem_1975

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Obviously every employer who uses the WPP scheme is looking for free staff, that goes without saying.

But regardless it is experience on your CV and makes you look like an attractive employee.

the work and boards admins should sticky your post mr.loverman... shabba

flash1080

gollem_1975 wrote: »

I was suprised when I had the conversation with the guy from Lux that there was knowledge of WPP amongst managers at a foreign bank.

a multinational such as Citrix could create these "paying" jobs anywhere in the world so anything that makes it more attractive to stay here and create jobs is a good thing imho.

Citrix are unlikely to train someone up for 9 months and then suddenly let them go just because they could go and get another WPP person.

Companies such as Citrix are getting a way to test drive relatively inexperienced employees and have them work for free in the first few months where they are likely to be fairly unproductive.

I would imagine that decision makers in these companies would look upon this favourably.

So flash do you think u/e people (like myself) shouldn't do the WPP ?

I don't think there should be a WPP if this is how it's implemented. I don't agree with taxpayers paying people on the dole while they work for free for private companies and threaten paying jobs.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

fyp

So you don't think that the company like Citrix will value their investment in training this person up for 9 months and simply go back to an unproven and untrained unknown for the simple reason that they can get them for free on the WPP ?

Companies hire people and continue to hire them because they create value for them. If an employee was creating value for a company then it would not make much sense to let them go ?

If a company can get someone else to work for free and add value then it would make sense to let them go.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

the work and boards admins should sticky your post mr.loverman... shabba

Something along the lines of "Work experience looks good on your CV" should be stickied?

_Kaiser_

This WPP thing is purely a cynical means for certain employers to cash in on people's misfortune.

Yes the theory is sound.. give fresh graduates some practical experience in their chosen field, and IF that's what was happening then I'd see the point BUT the reality is that many of these "jobs" are clearly targetted at professionals with education and experience - in effect, the employer is simply trying to save money AND keeping unemployment high by expecting people to work for nothing! Of course they're (employers) all for it! :rolleyes:

Also, unless you're a student living at home on mammy and daddys money, or sharing a house with 4 others and this "job" is almost next door, then it's simply not practical for most people - especially if you have kids, need to commute to "work", have bills/debts to pay etc. I believe most people DO want to work, but they DESERVE to be paid for their efforts!

If the government try to force someone who was made redundant/unemployed in the last 2 years into these schemes there'll be war.. or there should be, but given our nation of passive sheep who knows!

gollem_1975

kaiser and flash I do see how someone could be ideologically opposed to a scheme such as the WPP.

I know that Marxist analysis would view even paid employment as being exploitative so its all relative.

I am unemployed and I think I am getting a good deal out of the WPP. whats wrong with that ?

personally I think that doing the WPP will give me ( and anyone else doing the WPP ) a better chance at getting a job than somebody who at the same time is not getting work experience. I would even say that it will stand to me more than an average student currently doing a postgrad.

If you find a WPP that interests then go for it.

the old adage , its easier to get a job when you have a job is true, for one thing it reduces the amount of time( not by too much though ) you can spend reading/posting on Boards :pac:

gollem_1975

flash1080 wrote: »

Something along the lines of "Work experience looks good on your CV" should be stickied?

yes, i'm not being funny here.. ok i was trying to be, but the above sentence encapsulates the number one main reason why unemployed people should consider WPP as one of their options.

Pembily

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I think a few of you are missing my point.

Regardless of what you think of the WPP, employers have a positive view of those who have done it because it suggests they are motivated and hard working.

In other words, having spent 6 months on a WPP scheme will greatly enhance your chance of getting a proper job.

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Most people don't though, because they'd rather be on the dole.

I do not want to be on the dole, but I can not afford to live in Dublin on €196 a week!!! I am currently living at home and surviving just about and €196 a week in Dublin means I would have to take out a loan to survive...

What annoys me about this is its not small struggling companies that are benefiting from "free" labour its the big multi-nationals :mad: :mad: :mad:

And yes companies will defo get someone new after the 9 months are up - why pay for what you can get for free...

gollem_1975

flash1080 wrote:

gollem_1975 wrote:

Companies hire people and continue to hire them because they create value for them. If an employee was creating value for a company then it would not make much sense to let them go ?

If a company can get someone else to work for free and add value then it would make sense to let them go.

let me clarify..
the employee doesn't become productive on day one they may not even be productive several months down the line...

the company needs to train the employee up to a stage where they become productive. then once the employee is embedded in the company and is productive why would the company go back to square one and start the process all over again just because they can get a person for free.
do you see my point now?

gollem_1975

Pembily wrote: »

I do not want to be on the dole, but I can not afford to live in Dublin on €196 a week!!! I am currently living at home and surviving just about and €196 a week in Dublin means I would have to take out a loan to survive...

What annoys me about this is its not small struggling companies that are benefiting from "free" labour its the big multi-nationals :mad: :mad: :mad:

And yes companies will defo get someone new after the 9 months are up - why pay for what you can get for free...

ok , for someone who can afford to take a WPP job that interests them , then go for it.

Its not just MNCs offerring WPPs.. though tbh the likes of google, facebook and MS could prob have had students queuing up to work for them for free even without WPP

the company i am working with are an Irish company that are expanding internationally and have hired 2 FTEs since I started with them.

its not ideal..fsck it of course its not ideal to have to work for free.. but there is value in the WPP scheme especially in the current job market.

Scambuster

gollem_1975 wrote: »

let me clarify..
the employee doesn't become productive on day one they may not even be productive several months down the line...

the company needs to train the employee up to a stage where they become productive. then once the employee is embedded in the company and is productive why would the company go back to square one and start the process all over again just because they can get a person for free.
do you see my point now?

Yeah those crucial 6 months make all the difference when you are selling shoes in echo.

If companies really cared they would just hire new staff on five euro an hour to train them up.

gollem_1975

Pembily wrote: »

I do not want to be on the dole, but I can not afford to live in Dublin on €196 a week!!! I am currently living at home and surviving just about and €196 a week in Dublin means I would have to take out a loan to survive...

What annoys me about this is its not small struggling companies that are benefiting from "free" labour its the big multi-nationals :mad: :mad: :mad:

And yes companies will defo get someone new after the 9 months are up - why pay for what you can get for free...

are there any employers in your area at all ? WPP is not just available in Dublin.

2nd point and this is OT as I don't know the specifics of your circumstances but if you are young and able bodied and living at home I find it hard to believe you are barely surviving on €196 a week.

Pembily

gollem_1975 wrote: »

are there any employers in your area at all ? WPP is not just available in Dublin.

2nd point and this is OT as I don't know the specifics of your circumstances but if you are young and able bodied and living at home I find it hard to believe you are barely surviving on €196 a week.

Nope but any of the jobs I want are not near where I live and paying rent in Cork or Dublin and living even a student life is hard on €196!!!

My specifics are I am paying back loans that I took out to help me get my amazing free education!!!!

gollem_1975

Pembily wrote: »

Nope but any of the jobs I want are not near where I live and paying rent in Cork or Dublin and living even a student life is hard on €196!!!

so what your saying is that you don't want to be on the dole but you don't not so much that you will do any job ? are there ANY jobs in the area you live. don't you see that if you want to remain living where you are living there may never be any jobs that you want ?

Pembily wrote: »

My specifics are I am paying back loans that I took out to help me get my amazing free education!!!!

well I'm sorry I went off the topic questioning your circumstances.

in my opinion your JSB is yours to do with as you wish.

However there is a view that was expressed quite well on another thread, i think the poster was NTLBELL who argued that JSB should not be used to pay off loans. A visit to MABS was suggested.

trust me.. i'm doing the WPP myself..this is after 6 months dole, then doing a masters and 6 months on the dole , I've been where you are in the cycle and for me , my outlook on things and imo my prospects improved when I went on WPP ( sounds like "when I found jesus" I know...:) )

gollem_1975

Scambuster wrote: »

Yeah those crucial 6 months make all the difference when you are selling shoes in echo.

If companies really cared they would just hire new staff on five euro an hour to train them up.

I know its probably a throwaway remark on your part but I suspect you have never worked in a job selling shoes.

My theory would apply in a sales job.. you need to be a salesman.. ok some people take to it like a duck to water but 6 months could teach you a lot about selling shoes...especially in a recession

Pembily

gollem_1975 wrote: »

so what your saying is that you don't want to be on the dole but you don't not so much that you will do any job ? are there ANY jobs in the area you live. don't you see that if you want to remain living where you are living there may never be any jobs that you want

I am 100% willing to move, and I am in the process of moving, but I can't afford to move to for JSB!!! I am looking on a daily basis for jobs, no there are none in my area and I have applied for every grad programm out there, I have applied for 100's of jobs and I have got mostly PFOs and none of these jobs were in my home town!!!

gollem_1975 wrote: »

well I'm sorry I went off the topic questioning your circumstances.

in my opinion your JSB is yours to do with as you wish.

However there is a view that was expressed quite well on another thread, i think the poster was NTLBELL who argued that JSB should not be used to pay off loans. A visit to MABS was suggested.

trust me.. i'm doing the WPP myself..this is after 6 months dole, then doing a masters and 6 months on the dole , I've been where you are in the cycle and for me , my outlook on things and imo my prospects improved when I went on WPP ( sounds like "when I found jesus" I know...:) )

Its OT and I am not going OT anymore - it's my dole and I can throw it into a fire if I want!!!!

gollem_1975

Pembily wrote: »

I am 100% willing to move, and I am in the process of moving, but I can't afford to move to for JSB!!! I am looking on a daily basis for jobs, no there are none in my area and I have applied for every grad programm out there, I have applied for 100's of jobs and I have got mostly PFOs and none of these jobs were in my home town!!!

fair enough.. I thought the point you were making is that there were no jobs that you would want , not that there were no jobs period.

good luck with the job hunt.

flash1080

gollem_1975 wrote: »

kaiser and flash I do see how someone could be ideologically opposed to a scheme such as the WPP.

I know that Marxist analysis would view even paid employment as being exploitative so its all relative.

I am unemployed and I think I am getting a good deal out of the WPP. whats wrong with that ?

personally I think that doing the WPP will give me ( and anyone else doing the WPP ) a better chance at getting a job than somebody who at the same time is not getting work experience. I would even say that it will stand to me more than an average student currently doing a postgrad.

If you find a WPP that interests then go for it.

the old adage , its easier to get a job when you have a job is true, for one thing it reduces the amount of time( not by too much though ) you can spend reading/posting on Boards :pac:

Forget ideologies, the WPP and similar schemes are simply crap ideas.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

let me clarify..
the employee doesn't become productive on day one they may not even be productive several months down the line...

the company needs to train the employee up to a stage where they become productive. then once the employee is embedded in the company and is productive why would the company go back to square one and start the process all over again just because they can get a person for free.
do you see my point now?

I'm always productive on day one. Lots of people are productive on day one. Lots of companies expect employees to be productive on day one.

Mrs OBumble

flash1080 wrote: »

I'm always productive on day one. Lots of people are productive on day one. Lots of companies expect employees to be productive on day one.

+1

It's not always possible with people just out of college, and for them WPP makes sense. But for the rest of us, a fair amount of productivity should be happening pretty quickly, especially at the moment when employers can be very picky about only taking people with exactly the right skills.

Apart from that, the only possible benefits of WPP are for individuals who cannot keep themselves motivated and work-fit. Even then, I don't think it's heathy for the economy that the government is effectively providing free labour for some companies and not for their competitors.

Getting back to the original point, the OP was saying that they're good to do because they prove to future employers that you're motivated and willing to work. There are various ways to do this, WPP is just one. Personally, I've made the website in the top bit of my .sig, which was a sorely-needed public service for the city.

This recession won't last forever. Once I'm in good work again, I'm not planning to give any business to companies which I know what hired WPP people who weren't recent graduates.

.

Martron

JustMary wrote: »

+1

, I don't think it's heathy for the economy that the government is effectively providing free labour for some companies and not for their competitors.


.

very good point. did not think of it like that!

wylo

Martron wrote: »

very good point. did not think of it like that!

Its not just the free labour, its the fact that the tax payer is paying for it, thus they are not only losing money but they are not gaining money through paying tax as well.

Its just a money drain on the economy where rich private business' benefit, its a scam and it sickens me that its gotten to a point where the employers now have the power to pick "So which one of these guys worked for free???, I think ill hire him"
Im not disputing that employers WILL look at this and see the ex WPP worker as a better candidate but it sickens me that its gotten to that. What happened to workers rights? Its James Connelly we need at this stage ffs.

Martron

you see it will continue on. because people are concious about filling gaps on cvs. the employers seem to be the abusers here and the general tax payer losing out again.

gollem_1975

Martron wrote: »

you see it will continue on. because people are concious about filling gaps on cvs. the employers seem to be the abusers here and the general tax payer losing out again.

it will continue in the current circumstances because it is in peoples interests to get work experience/learn new skills/network etc.

when the economy does pick up then employers will not find it as easy to tempt people to work for them with the carrot of experience alone.. they will need to pay people because the quality candidates will follow the money.

tax payer is not losing out..the WPP person gets the JSB that they would be entitled to anyway. there is no guarantee that the employer would be creating a paying job equivalent to the WPP position.

If the employer does make any additional money from taking on a WPP then a proportion of that will go in taxes.

wylo

gollem_1975 wrote: »

tax payer is not losing out..the WPP person gets the JSB that they would be entitled to anyway. there is no guarantee that the employer would be creating a paying job equivalent to the WPP position.

I dont agree , have you actually looked at some of the work , fair enough there is some postgrad trainee type work where there is alot to be learned.But alot of the jobs consist of stuff like cleaning, reception, etc, basically normal jobs that arent high skill.
Also the tax payer is losing money, because not only is he contributing towards the 200 that we wouldnt be needed if he was working, but he is also losing out tax payed by that potential employee.

Honestly, I have seen jobs go up and go be taken back down and put up as WPPs, I know a lad that went for an interview for a WPP job , he eventually kindly declined because he realised what the job entailed and realised it was clearly a free labour scam, that job had since been put up as a real job.

They are definitely replacing real jobs, not all of them , but alot of them.

gollem_1975

wylo wrote: »

Its not just the free labour, its the fact that the tax payer is paying for it, thus they are not only losing money but they are not gaining money through paying tax as well.

Its just a money drain on the economy where rich private business' benefit, its a scam and it sickens me that its gotten to a point where the employers now have the power to pick "So which one of these guys worked for free???, I think ill hire him"
Im not disputing that employers WILL look at this and see the ex WPP worker as a better candidate but it sickens me that its gotten to that. What happened to workers rights? Its James Connelly we need at this stage ffs.

the country needs to help employers now.. they are the people that are going to get us out of this... by creating jobs.

the government would be expected by many to help employers to create jobs.. in other words.. give them tax dollars no matter what way you look at it.

WPP is a fairly cost-effective way of helping them especially when you consider the figures I was hearing in recent years of the costs incurred by companies such as IDA ( and fas ) for creating jobs ( four figure sums for each job ).

workers rights ?
A WPP person can leave their position as soon as a paying opportunity arises. for a WPP person its really what they make of it - they can't be abused by their employer because there is no stick..they are not going to lose anything financially if they terminate the program.

gollem_1975

flash1080 wrote: »

Forget ideologies, the WPP and similar schemes are simply crap ideas.

have you a better one ?
is there a better option out there for an unemployed person to choose ?
are you an employer ?

flash1080 wrote: »

I'm always productive on day one. Lots of people are productive on day one. Lots of companies expect employees to be productive on day one.

Lots ? Lots aren't and Lots don't too.
but from an IT perspective..nobody , not even the contractors on daily rates that exceed JSB for a week are productive on day one.. they have to learn the system, learn how a company does business, fit into the culture.
this does not happen overnight.

A job that anyone can walk into on day without any experience and be productive is never going to command great pay rate.

gollem_1975

JustMary wrote: »

This recession won't last forever. Once I'm in good work again, I'm not planning to give any business to companies which I know what hired WPP people who weren't recent graduates.
.

WPP could help some of these businesses to survive the recession(as to how long it lasts , its debateable.. even if there is recovery , it could be a "jobless" one) and one of them might even be the company that hires you.

am I right in saying from your post that you produced a website while you were on jsb (kudos to you by the way for doing so)

considering yourself as being both the employer ( and the employee ) how is this any different really from WPP ?

gollem_1975

wylo wrote: »

I dont agree , have you actually looked at some of the work , fair enough there is some postgrad trainee type work where there is alot to be learned.But alot of the jobs consist of stuff like cleaning, reception, etc, basically normal jobs that arent high skill.
Also the tax payer is losing money, because not only is he contributing towards the 200 that we wouldnt be needed if he was working, but he is also losing out tax payed by that potential employee.
.

first off yes I have looked at the WPP jobs.. i am doing one myself. and when I looked at it there were plenty of interesting jobs on it. In fact I was not accepted for a few of them.
the WPP candidates need to sort out the wheat from the chaff themselves e.g. you won't get Cisco admins applying for WPP cleaning jobs. and even if they do that kind of experience is not going to be relevant to them in their next Cisco role.

I'm not for one moment suggesting that someone should go for WPP because its some sort of work for dole scheme.

its up to the person themselves to take responsibility for their career progression and determine if its a good idea to take the position.

wylo wrote: »

Honestly, I have seen jobs go up and go be taken back down and put up as WPPs, I know a lad that went for an interview for a WPP job , he eventually kindly declined because he realised what the job entailed and realised it was clearly a free labour scam, that job had since been put up as a real job.

They are definitely replacing real jobs, not all of them , but alot of them.

If you have evidence of this happening report them to Fas.

I can not imagine that that companies as the ones you describe will be able to attract and more importantly retain staff on no wages.
the company can't count on the loyalty of the WPP person because there is no carrot/stick of a wage packet... the carrot is experience/skills/networking

The WPP person will be no worse off financially if they never showed up for a day.

Dellywelly

The programme is totally voluntary and if you do not take up your payment is in no way affected. this is incorrect!!

gerrycollins wrote: »

while the principal of the project is nobel and does differenciate the wasters from the more serious the reality is different. My wife and I were both subject to wpp however considering that there is nothin extra we have worked out the we could not afford to partake.

If both of us are "forced" to do one ie we could lose our entitlement if we refuse, we can not afford the travel and with three kids thats an added hassle. We asked FAS about our situation and the only answer we got is "you may lose your dole if you dont partake"

thankfully I got a good paying job so that threat is no longer hanging over me.

flash1080

gollem_1975 wrote: »

the country needs to help employers now.. they are the people that are going to get us out of this... by creating jobs.

The WPP doesn't create jobs, it's free labour for private companies. There are better ways to help employers out, like reducing rates.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

have you a better one ?
is there a better option out there for an unemployed person to choose ?
are you an employer ?

My idea is to scrap free labour schemes. A lot of unemployed people are emigrating to get paying work, that's one option.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

A job that anyone can walk into on day without any experience and be productive is never going to command great pay rate.

Not true. There are very well paying jobs that people are expected be productive from day one, no matter what the level of experience.