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Chartering a Helicopter

  • 06-11-2010 10:13AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭


    Has anyone any idea how much it would cost to charter a helicopter for 5 hours. Also it would be at night- does this raise any issues ?

    And how many seats would the biggest charter-able helicopter have?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    Helicopters Cant fly at night as far as I know.. Only the Gardai and aer corps can fly at night..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    You can fly at night in the UK no problem once the pilot has a night rating so I'd be surprised if it's an issue over here.

    An R44 can carry 3 passengers and would cost about roughly £600STG an hour to charter in the UK (it'll probably be quite a bit more in Ireland).
    Something like a Twin Squirrel could carry 5 passengers but would cost roughly £1500STG an hour (again, it'll probably cost a lot more over here).

    Try contacting Blue Star in Cork or Eirecopter in Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    I think six seats would be biggest in this country. It would be wildly expensive too. You could fly at night if the helicopter remained within an airport control zone, class C airspace. But you couldn't land anywhere else except that airport.

    Night flying in Ireland outside controlled airspace can only take place under Instrument flight rules which means the pilot must be appropriately qualified and the aircraft appropriately equipped. But even if they were you could only fly between airports.

    So your idea isn't really practical in this country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Is it typically more expensive to hire 6 seat helicopters than 4? Now it obviously is but if the seats were sold on a per seat basis then which tends to work out cheaper a 4 or a 6?

    Also what is the boundaries of Class C airspace? Could one, for instance, take off from Dublin airport, fly over the city center to the Wicklow mountains then turn back and land at Dublin airport? And can the same thing be done from Westen? Or better again are there any other (cheaper) landing fields that could be used or does it have to be an official airport?


    Sorry for all the questions, its just Im trying to organise logistics for an event next year and need to get a handle on my options when flying at night.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    RATM wrote: »
    Is it typically more expensive to hire 6 seat helicopters than 4? Now it obviously is but if the seats were sold on a per seat basis then which tends to work out cheaper a 4 or a 6?

    Also what is the boundaries of Class C airspace? Could one, for instance, take off from Dublin airport, fly over the city center to the Wicklow mountains then turn back and land at Dublin airport? And can the same thing be done from Westen? Or better again are there any other (cheaper) landing fields that could be used or does it have to be an official airport?


    Sorry for all the questions, its just Im trying to organise logistics for an event next year and need to get a handle on my options when flying at night.

    I don't know the ins and outs of night flying in Ireland.
    In the UK night flying isn't a problem but going by what XFlyer says then it's very limited here.

    A 6 seater is going to work out considerably more expensive than a 4 seater.
    A 206 Jetranger could accommodate 4 people and is relatively cheap to charter.
    If you're looking for a 6 seater then it's probably going to be a twin turbine and it's going to cost a lot.

    Your better off giving someone like these guys a ring.
    They should be able to answer all your questions and advise you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭westdub


    RATM wrote: »
    And can the same thing be done from Westen? Or better again are there any other (cheaper) landing fields that could be used or does it have to be an official airport?
    I presume you mean Weston?
    Unfortunately Weston closes when it get dark as it only operates VFR (visual flight rules) so you wont be able to fly from there....
    http://www.westonairport.com/airport.aspx
    And as far as I know so do all of the other airfields.....

    You could try Celtic Helicopters as they operate from the airport.. http://www.celtichelicopters.ie/ ..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭Klunk001


    afatbollix wrote: »
    Helicopters Cant fly at night as far as I know.. Only the Gardai and aer corps can fly at night..

    You forgot Coast Guard heli's, twin engines helo's with suitably qualified crew :-)

    Just to add, as I undersatand it civilian heli night flights are allowed here. Your helo has to be twin engined and it will be a SVFR/IFR flight within a control zone or IFR flight outside. Usually these flights will be from airport to airport but not always. There are a few at most, heliports (private) in the country that are approved for landing night ops. It is possible to takeoff from a pre recced site after dark but not land back at the same spot unless approved by the authority so it will be on to an airport.

    Yes, you could take off from Dublin, fly over the Wicklow mountains and return to Dublin. In all likely hood in doing that the MSA in the wicklows is 3100 ft so add another 1000ft for mum and the kids= 4100 ft min for IFR flight.

    As for six seater helo's, you are looking at an Agusta 109 and bigger, probably bigger for what you are looking to do and that equals lots of money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Yes West I did mean Weston so I guess night flying is out of the question there (even for suitably qualified pilots?) or is it possible to get some sort of permit?

    Klunk I presume MSA means Minimum Safe Altitude? But what is SVFR/IFR? Sorry, its not everyday I charter helicopters=)

    Also you say it must be twin engined- are these type of helicopters typically 4 or 6 seater or both? Is there anything bigger than a 6- I need to keep costs down and the seats are being sold on a per seat basis. Do twin engines tend to increase the price considerably ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    Klunk summed it up perfectly. Weston is out of the question and no you cannot get any form of permit. To explain it simply, SVFR is Special Visual Flight Rules. This is to allow operations in the vicinity of the airport, ie the control zone at night or during the day is weather conditions wouldn't meet the requirements of normal Visual Flight Rules. In practice they apply at night even when visibility is perfect.

    IFR is Instrument Flight Rules allows operation in most weather conditions but is a requirement at night in Ireland even away from airports even if the weather is clear.

    There are very few helicopters with more than 6 seats available, none in Ireland. Even if they were they would be horrendously expensive to hire.

    Essentially we are saying, while your idea is possible it's essentially non runner without considerable organisation and expense. You'd need to find a suitable helicopter first, with a suitably qualified pilot, organise to fly it out of Dublin airport, that costs big money too. Plus on the night the weather would have to gin clear. That's a lot of Ducks in a row.

    In the UK it would be so much simpler, routine even. As for the USA, well easier again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,426 ✭✭✭testicle


    afatbollix wrote: »
    Only the Gardai and aer corps can fly at night..

    The Garda helis are flown by the Air Corps.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭Sterling Archer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    That thread on PPRuNe is a few years old. But the one thing I would say is that in Ireland. This is still Ireland. Rules are rules. What actually happens...................welll.

    That's the way it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    OP can you give any more info on what you're actually intending on doing.
    This would be most likely be an awful loteasier and cheaper to do in the UK.

    If the IAA rules are so strict on night flying here what's the normal procedure for getting a Night Rating for a CPL?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    It is a requirement for the issue of a CPL that you have five hours of night flying completed. So anyone holding a CPL is already be qualified to fly at night. There is in fact no such thing as a night rating anymore. It's called a night qualification these days. But we all still call it a night rating.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    xflyer wrote: »
    It is a requirement for the issue of a CPL that you have five hours of night flying completed. So anyone holding a CPL is already be qualified to fly at night. There is in fact no such thing as a night rating anymore. It's called a night qualification these days. But we all still call it a night rating.

    That's my question though.
    When people are doing their CPL in Ireland what's the normal procedure for getting Night Rating?
    Do they have to complete a couple of flights to/from DUB?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    No you can do it any regional airport with Class C airspace. Dublin would be a tad expensive in terms of landing/handling fees etc so it's generally avoided. One flying school out of Weston flies to Galway or Shannon for night flying. Others are based in regional airports anyway so it would simply be included in the normal flying phase.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    I see, thanks, in the UK you can take off / land from unlicensed airfields at night no problem.
    You just need to complete one night flight to an Intl Airport as part of the CPL.

    I guess it's not that surprising that things are stricter in Ireland than the UK, it seems to be that way for lots of things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    In practical terms there would be little opportunity to fly at night outside controlled airspace anyway even if it was allowed. Most private airfields couldn't justify the investment in airfield lighting. You could fly from regional airport to regional airport. Same with helicopters, practically speaking lighted helipads would be rare and probably off limits to most.

    In any case there is no motivation by the IAA to change the rules. I think I read a comment from one official to the effect that there is enough 'cowboy' flying going on in the country even with the rules we have. Without allowing another opportunity to take chances.


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