Front Wheel Drive and Torque Steer

--Kaiser--

Following on from a conversation in another thread, what do folks think about high HP in a Front Wheel Drive car?

Very few FWD cars are released with much more than 200 HP. One of the main reasons being torque steer.

Some modern cars have been released with large amounts of power going to the front wheels, one being the Ford Focus RS (300 hp), this was released with a torque-biasing differential and special revo-kuckle steering arm. Still, some reviewers complained of the torque steer on bumpy roads.

Another car with a similar amount of power flowing through the front wheels (260 hp) is the Mazda 3 MPS. This has an electronic differential, but reviewers still commented on the 'just about controlled' torque steer.

The reasons I'm asking is that I see a lot of projects on car sites where people turbo and super charge front wheel drive cars to over 300 bhp. Is this a good idea?

Atomic Pineapple

Many Focus RS owners have their cars pushing out 400bhp, with ESP, torque-biasing differential and the revo knuckle torque steer is counteracted fairly well from what I read, of course it is still there and always will be due to the physics of using the drive wheels to do the turning too.

My own ST is putting out 260bhp at the minute with no ESP or LSD and torque steer is only minimally stronger than on my Integra Type R (DC2) which was putting out 180bhp.

I think reviewers make more a deal out of the torque steer issue than actually is present, I was worried about torque steer in the ST being an issue but after 6 months of driving it I can say it handles 260bhp through the front wheels extremely well. (I didn't even realise it was putting out 260bhp until I had it dyno'd)

Another boardsie has his ST putting out over 300bhp with no reported major torque steer issues and my cousin has his EP3 Civic supercharged and putting out 308bhp again with no major torque steer issues.

Like I say it is still there and you need to be aware of it but its not severe enough to impact the enjoyment of the drive nor hamper getting the power down, with an LSD I'd be very happy to put 300bhp + through the front wheels of my ST.

mik_da_man

Yep my ST is putting around 300 through the front wheels and torque steer is not an issue. You can notice it slightly at times but its very manageable. It has never shocked me or caught me out.
Its quite easy to demonstrate it while not holding the wheel but when you are holding the wheel you wouldn't really feel it pulling either way.

redcube

I had a Colt 1993 pushing near 250bhp to the front wheels and it used to pull to the left like mad until the drive shaft snapped then it pulled strength till the right drive shaft snapped i wonder where that car is now

Atomic Pineapple

redcube wrote: »

I had a Colt 1993 pushing near 250bhp to the front wheels and it used to pull to the left like mad until the drive shaft snapped then it pulled strength till the right drive shaft snapped i wonder where that car is now

Older cars will suffer from it much much more only recently have companies invested in making high powered FWD cars more viable.

redcube

So i need to get a new car drive train and stick it in my old car

punto gt turbo3

the punto you are on about is fitted with a viscodrive (coupe 20vt engine), coilovers set up to drive the power into the ground and eagle f1's. it handles the power very well.

Owen

I've driven a few cars with serious torque steer, the Vectra OPC being the one that was the worst. When the new R56 Cooper S was launched in 07, it had torque steer too - which was criticised by drivers. MINI have just released updated software which compensates for it by turning the steering slightly and playing with the dif ... which kinda rocks, because it means you can start having very powerful fwd cars without the associated problems getting away from a standing start.

stealthyspeeder

From my personal experience (owning a mazda 3 MPS and driving an Astra VXR (OPC)) torque steer is an over exaggerated negative that motoring journalists go on about.

Its noticable..... but once you used to it its not a bother (hence journalists who test drive many different cars focusing on it)

With the LSD in the MPS, I found that the only difference was I gave the throttle 80% as opposed to 100 over bumpy/gravelly surfaces, had to be a bit more careful in VXR though.

Understeer is much more of a performance issue in those types of cars than toque steer ever could be in IMO though.

Squall19

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

From my personal experience (owning a mazda 3 MPS and driving an Astra VXR (OPC)) torque steer is an over exaggerated negative that motoring journalists go on about.

Its noticable..... but once you used to it its not a bother (hence journalists who test drive many different cars focusing on it)

With the LSD in the MPS, I found that the only difference was I gave the throttle 80% as opposed to 100 over bumpy/gravelly surfaces, had to be a bit more careful in VXR though.

Understeer is much more of a performance issue in those types of cars than toque steer ever could be in IMO though.

Agreed Stealth, my mps is putting out 300bhp now and yeah its a bit twitchy under full load on uneven surfaces, but my Fabia Vrs only had 165bhp and it was alot more unpredictable