Why rows 3 and 4 empty?

finbarrk

Sorry if this question has been asked before. But why are a few seat rows near the front usually kept empty by the aeroplane stewards? I have seen it a lot on Ryanair and sometimes on Aer Lingus too.

FlutterinBantam

Weight and balance issues.

Tenger

Another factor is that with EI you pay slightly more to sit in the first rows so if no-one wants to to pay to be first off you will have no-one prebooked/assigned a seat in the first 3-4 rows.

adamski8

seems to me that a few extra hundred kilo's up front wouldn't have so much affect! surely then a couple of people queing for the jax would affect the balance etc then

FlutterinBantam

adamski8 wrote: »

seems to me that a few extra hundred kilo's up front wouldn't have so much affect! surely then a couple of people queing for the jax would affect the balance etc then

Maybe not at cruising height and speed, but at take of and landing aircraft have to be within regulated limits for weight and balance .

Doesn't mean the fcukers will crash if the regulations are not adhered to, but it helps;)

Tenger

adamski8 wrote: »

seems to me that a few extra hundred kilo's up front wouldn't have so much affect! surely then a couple of people queing for the jax would affect the balance etc then

I've been on a very empty A321 to LHR where the cabin crew actually went thru the cabin to check that everyone was in the correct row. With such a low load (well less than 100) the A321 is more prone to weight and balance issues.

And I'm sure that the airlines procedures are higher than the manufacturers design parameters most of the time.

garbanzo

Maybe it is to accomodate DJ's from Cork who might want to crack a quick one off the wrist while out of their box on pills and booze..?

FlutterinBantam

Tenger wrote: »

I've been on a very empty A321 to LHR where the cabin crew actually went thru the cabin to check that everyone was in the correct row. With such a low load (well less than 100) the A321 is more prone to weight and balance issues.

And I'm sure that the airlines procedures are higher than the manufacturers design parameters most of the time.

Presume that was an Aer lingus machine which would have been 'trimmed ' based on seat row occupancy, where the computer takes account of the actual seats occupied and produced a balance index based on that.

Any aircraft is more prone to balance issues with a low load as it opens up the possibility of extreme situations.

I.E .all the passengers sitting up the front or all down the back.

With nearly full loads that is not possible.

that is why seats can be restricted to ensure that extreme situations are not realised.

Stinicker

I thought this was done by Ryanair to make serving the drinks and scratch cards easier for the cabin crew and the clean up afterwards.

finbarrk

But what if, say there are 75 people at the back half and only 40 in the front end, surely it doesn't make sense to keep those front rows limited.

Victor

finbarrk wrote: »

say there are 75 people at the back half and only 40 in the front end

That wouldn't allow that to happen in the first place.

Of course, the exact numbers would depend on aircraft type, fuel loading, corgo, etc.

amen

I though in an empty plan situation they were more inclinded to move passengers forward as the centre of gravity is normally mid plane(slightly forward) and as fuel is used the cg normally moves back ?

scudzilla

Coming back from Madrid last year with Ryanair front 4 and back 4 rows were empty, after take off stewardess said we could sit there but would have to return to our seat for Landing. Took off, 10 mins later was stretched out fast asleep in my own row

testicle

Victor wrote: »

That wouldn't allow that to happen in the first place.

Of course, the exact numbers would depend on aircraft type, fuel loading, corgo, etc.

Are cabin crew qualified loadmasters now?

finbarrk

Still none the wiser.

scudzilla

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Weight and balance issues.

finbarrk wrote: »

Still none the wiser.

FlutterinBantam is correct

APM

testicle wrote: »

Are cabin crew qualified loadmasters now?

only if passengers have now become freight

testicle

APM wrote: »

only if passengers have now become freight

Self loading freight.

View Profile

Like was mentioned, its due to weight and balance.

The cabin crew will receive the passenger figures from the dispatcher before boarding. Depending on the amount of passengers the CC will apply either what they call Rule 1 or Rule 2. This calls for the blocking of specified rows.
On the loadsheet there is an area the captain selects to signify which rule was applied.
It's a fuel saving measure basically.

magneticimpulse

They normally keep "special" seats free in case they have elderly people or maybe children. Also I notice they just find seats where they can stand inside while the people get on. they normally board rows 15 - 29 1st and then the rest of the plane. You usually get an air host/ess standing in the exit rows so when people sit down they can quickly brief them on how to open the exit doors.

Most people choose where to sit on aer lingus flights via the pre boarding pass at home. But seriously ive not been on any flights which have been that empty to have free rows...maybe France is just always a popular destination

I know they do try to balance out the plane somewhat...

FlutterinBantam

About what exactly.?


Every aircraft type has different characteristics based on size, engine position,fuel tankage, underfloor loading, etc etc.

Every flight which takes off needs a detailed document outlining the weights on board,and their distribution around the CoG.

Unless these are within regulated limits,steps must be taken to bring them within the limits.

Every flight is different to a degree so there is no' one size fits all' category.

Aircraft are not perfectly balanced when empty usually and some types are what is called in the business as 'nose heavy,whilst other are 'tail heavy..

Hope that explains things bit better:p

mayotom

I flew with monarch a few years ago from Malaga, when they had gotten the balance wrong in a flight which was half full. the aircraft was clearly tail heavy and led to a very rapid and turbulant accent, with some passengers gettin sick. Once we leveled out, the cabin crew came and got more than 20 passengers to move to other seats to get the aircraft re balanced. However we continued to have light turbulance all the way to LGW, the flight crew did explain that this may also have been caused by the baggage been incorrectly loaded.

highlydebased

mayotom wrote: »

I flew with monarch a few years ago from Malaga, when they had gotten the balance wrong in a flight which was half full. the aircraft was clearly tail heavy and led to a very rapid and turbulant accent, with some passengers gettin sick. Once we leveled out, the cabin crew came and got more than 20 passengers to move to other seats to get the aircraft re balanced. However we continued to have light turbulance all the way to LGW, the flight crew did explain that this may also have been caused by the baggage been incorrectly loaded.

If it was a 757 which I suspect it was, it is a highly overpowered aircraft which would have led to a quick climb regardless. Never heard of baggage causing turbulence either :eek:

AfterDusk

mayotom wrote: »

I flew with monarch a few years ago from Malaga, when they had gotten the balance wrong in a flight which was half full. the aircraft was clearly tail heavy and led to a very rapid and turbulant accent, with some passengers gettin sick. Once we leveled out, the cabin crew came and got more than 20 passengers to move to other seats to get the aircraft re balanced. However we continued to have light turbulance all the way to LGW, the flight crew did explain that this may also have been caused by the baggage been incorrectly loaded.

The imbalance wouldn't have caused turbulence, it just makes the aircraft unstable on takeoff and landing.

Cessna_Pilot

mayotom wrote: »

However we continued to have light turbulance all the way to LGW, the flight crew did explain that this may also have been caused by the baggage been incorrectly loaded.

Baggage won't cause turbulence. Ever.

testicle

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Baggage won't cause turbulence. Ever.

Even if the loading door is open and the baggage is falling out mid-flight?

rob88

testicle wrote: »

Even if the loading door is open and the baggage is falling out mid-flight?

if the clouds and air were made out of baggage it might cause it