Train of misery

Doors

Hello

I just wanted to share my experience on here with others. Let it be said first and foremost that I do not come on here in outrage at having been harshly treated. Although I think the punishment I've received is not relative to the 'crime', I was, in principle, in the wrong.

Use this tale as a warning perhaps...

How it all started

About five months ago I took my normal daily trip to work via train from Weymouth to Dorchester (an 8 mile trip). On this particular day I was running (quite literally) a little late, and boarded the train without a ticket. I work in a customer facing role with vulnerable people and did not want my tardiness to be that which let them down. I am fully aware that this should not happen, and it was one of only a handful of times from the hundreds in which I have used the train that I did so.

The train pulled away seconds after I had stepped on the train. I put my coat and laptop on the nearby chair, and began to shuffle in my pockets for the £3.40 fare. In the past when I had been in a rush, the guards had been fine with this. Within a minute of the train leaving Weymouth, a revenues officer entered my otherwise vacant carriage and asked for me to present my ticket. I informed him of the rush I'd had to get on and asked him politely if he could issue me a ticket to Dorchester.

Cutting a long part of the story short, he wasn't having any of it and wouldn't accept my payment. He was obnoxious and accusatory, but again, principally I was in the wrong, so I could have little argument when he issued me with a £20 penalty fare. Fair cop.

The really stupid bit

The fare issued needed to be paid within 21 days. It certainly wasn't deception, rather stupidity and forgetfulness, but I did not make arrangements to pay this fine.

Summons

About a fortnight ago I received a court summons to appear at magistrates court yesterday. I was shocked. I have never been to court or in trouble with the authorities, or anything remotely of the sort. I felt physically sick.

I read through all the documents and read carefully the plea submission. I could plead guilty and appear, plead guilty and submit a statement of mitigation, or plead not guilty.

On the summons papers it says "If you are convicted in your absence there will be an application, at Court, to order you to pay minimum costs of £130 for the first summons... "For pleas of guilty in person or by post, the application at Court, for costs will be reduced to a minimum of £100 for the first summons.

Despite my naive surprise that a £3.40 fare being missed would reach a court, I realised I hardly had a leg to stand on, so pleaded guilty and started to draft a grovelling statement of mitigation.

The re-draft

It was only the next day, when I got my head together that I re-read the summons documentation and noticed an error.

The documentation that I was sent along with my summons refers to my trip as being from Weybridge to Dorchester. Weybridge is a town in Surrey that I have never visited. Weybridge was listed on the summons, the witness statement, and the statement of facts. The price for this fare is £43.30 and this is the amount listed throughout the documentation. I had originally assumed this amount accounted for subsequent fines. The fact that I in fact travelled from Weymouth was backed up by the copy of the penalty fare originally issued to me which was also included in the documents.

I realised I had to raise this. Whereas not making me any less guilty, it did in my opinion make this particular evidence inadmissable, and I explained so in my revised statement.

"I do not wish to cause any further administration or undue bother by raising this point. Quite frankly the fact that a £3.40 fare has escalated to such a scale is regrettable in itself. However, I think it prudent that the information submitted is correct.

The £3.40 fare itself should have been paid by me in advance of boarding the train. I was late for work and so instead got my money ready to pay the guard on the train. However, as shown in Mr ***’s penalty fare – I was challenged at 08.21, less than a minute after boarding the train. I did not have enough funds on my person to offer payment of the £20 fine issued by Mr *** and he would not accept the £3.40."

The verdict

Today I phoned the court to find out the result. When I eventually got through, I was informed that the court had accepted my plea, "gave me credit for pleading guilty" and issued the following. (the following isn't verbatem, but as best as I remember the conversation)

A total court order to pay £218.40
£100 in court costs
£100 fine
£15 victim surcharge
£3.40 original fare

So despite recognising that the evidence was wrong, I am hit with £218.40 for a £3.40 fare that I was willing to pay for. Again, only myself to blame mind.

The bits that concern me

Okay, it's happened. Gutted, but what's done is done. However, two things now concern me.

1) Local paper, and repurcussions: Every Wednesday the local paper prints a summary of what has happened in court during the week. The paper prints the offenders full name, the offence and the verdict. I checked this last week and it was littered with shoplifters, drug dealers, assaults and the sort of things I had usually associated with court and turned my nose up at.

I know that the paper have the right to print this, but for what is relatively a minor offence, this could cause a lot of unfortunate repurcussions. I am in a public facing role giving advice to local residents. If they see this then it severely undermines my credibility. By the same token, my employers would therefore not be happy, and worse case scenario I could face disciplinary action. Yet, believe it or not, despite being a grown man, I'm most worried/embarrassed about my parents seeing it. I just wish I could stop them from printing it.

2) Criminal record: I am led to believe that this conviction will result in a criminal record. With the various CRB checks in my line of work, the fact that I am looking to buy property, and all sorts of other things, could all be affected.

Can anyone tell me what exactly is affected by having a criminal record? Will it affect my credit rating etc?

Injustice?

No, like I said, I did wrong. But it does frustrate me that we are in a world where a first time offender neglecting to pay a minimal ticket can lead to a criminal record and £200+ fine. This same world was one where some years ago I was jumped unprovoked by three people, mugged, beaten up and had my head repeatedly stamped on. I had to have my lip sewn back on in hospital, the police's response was that they were unlikely to be able to find the offenders, and that without a description (I was jumped from behind in the dark) there would be no investigation. Bet at least one of those three doesn't have a criminal record.

Ho hum, be warned.

Ginger Nut

In Ireland if you board a train without a ticket and the "Revenue Protection Unit" - (used to be called Ticket Checkers) will issue a €100 fine - not sure what would happen if you didnt pay - never had the guts to try!!!

Doors

Ginger Nut wrote: »

In Ireland if you board a train without a ticket and the "Revenue Protection Unit" - (used to be called Ticket Checkers) will issue a €100 fine - not sure what would happen if you didnt pay - never had the guts to try!!!

ha, they certainly seem to enjoy their job that's for sure. Reminds me of the Harry & Paul sketch "parking patweyo", sums it up brilliantly.

Ginger Nut

lol- your right - rumour has it that they get commission!!

axer

Doors wrote: »

No, like I said, I did wrong. But it does frustrate me that we are in a world where a first time offender neglecting to pay a minimal ticket can lead to a criminal record and £200+ fine.

I hope this doesn't sound attacking but the biggest problem was that you didn't pay the fine when you were supposed to. The small fine was a very fair option for a small wrong doing in my opinion.

coylemj

Why did you register on an Irish discussion forum to outline a difficulty you had with British authorities? Believe me there's nothing xenophobic in my reply to you but how do you expect us in the Republic of Ireland to comment on how the British legal system works?

Doors

coylemj wrote: »

Why did you register on an Irish discussion forum to outline a difficulty you had with British authorities? Believe me there's nothing xenophobic in my reply to you but how do you expect us in the Republic of Ireland to comment on how the British legal system works?

Fair point, I genuinely didn't realise! Sorry.

Doors

axer wrote: »

I hope this doesn't sound attacking but the biggest problem was that you didn't pay the fine when you were supposed to. The small fine was a very fair option for a small wrong doing in my opinion.

You're entirely correct. I never attempted to mask the fact that I had been stupid in not actioning it, I just feel so foolish that this has led to a criminal record.

hinault

Contact a solicitor.

First up, you were in the wrong by boarding the train without paying your fare first.
And you should have paid the fine imposed for boarding the train.

However.

Weybridge and Weymouth.
The fact of the matter is that the court documentation issued to you was incorrect. The summons should have read Weybridge, not Weymouth.
This clerical error has increased the fare that was initially evaded.

The legal system is obliged to ensure that all documentation is correctly issued to a defendant.

I suggest that you contact your solicitor and seek his advice.
I would think that you are entitled to some sort of redress in this situation.

hinault

hinault wrote: »

I would think that you are entitled to some sort of redress in this situation.

Perhaps he'd be entitled to have the fine struck out and he'd then be re-tried properly I'd imagine.

I doubt he would have an action in tort as the defence of ex turpi cause non oritur actio would most likely apply.

That said it may be overcome if the court's actions were disproportionate to OP's. Interesting one.

Reloc8

'would think' 'shmould think' etc.

You need UK advice.

ps sorry is someone talking about suing the court in tort ? that's just bonkers.

Reloc8

Reloc8 wrote: »

'would think' 'shmould think' etc.

You need UK advice.

ps sorry is someone talking about suing the court in tort ? that's just bonkers.

No not the court, the state as issuing body of the summons.

TheInquisitor

So did you go to court or send them in a letter pleading guilty?

Unfortunately due to the fact you pleaded guilty to travelling from weybridge to dorchester i doubt there's any recourse to take. You should get a solicitors opinion but i doubt the court would look kindly on being messed about.

charlemont

coylemj wrote: »

Why did you register on an Irish discussion forum to outline a difficulty you had with British authorities? Believe me there's nothing xenophobic in my reply to you but how do you expect us in the Republic of Ireland to comment on how the British legal system works?

Maybe he "forgot" that Ireland isnt British, i know people right here in Ireland that have .co.uk at end of e mail addresses. I dont think they even realise it yet ...

newmug

What does "in tort" mean?

Victor

Feel lucky, some guy who was making his own tickets was fined more than £20,000 earlier in the year. I think he also got a few months in prison.

Realise that you did two things wrong (a) not pay before boarding (b) not deal with the ticket.

Talk to a solicitor and explain the situation and depending on that advice, then talk to your boss. You may not have a particular problem, although that may be job dependent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_of_Offenders_Act_1974

newmug wrote: »

What does "in tort" mean?

A tort is a civil (not criminal) wrong, things like simple trespass, nuisance, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort