What's the difference between Iceland and Ireland? Read it and weep:

ashleey

Icelandic bond yields (14 year): 6.03%

http://www.bonds.is/MarketOverview.aspx?catID=1631&Type=Bond&OrderBookId=66912

Ireland 10 year bond yields: 7.66%

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND

It was the closest I could get to a direct comparison.

It wasn't supposed to turn out like this, was it?

Bear in mind, this is after their new PM is openly arguing with the IMF and trying to force through debt forgiveness for mortgage holders. Surely, as Ireland is doing the opposite then rates should be lower?

Over to you, Brian

skelliser

Dont forget he and others are facing criminal charges, oh and icelands unemployment rate is only at 7.60% to our 13%
and thats down on 2009's figure of 8.8%!!

looks like they have turned a corner!!

ashleey

And they have done it by concentrating on fishing!

Now, I get cross when I read about the latest subsidy schemes in CAP, but what is the one thing that Ireland excels at? It's real food!

thee glitz

ashleey wrote: »

What's the difference between Iceland and Ireland?

ooh ooh ooh!

Inflation has soared 41 percent from January 2007 through September this year

Real disposable incomes slumped 20.3 percent last year

Real wages fell 10.1 percent from the beginning of 2007 through August this year

63 percent of the nation's mortgage is underwater

40 percent of homeowners are "technically insolvent"

Iceland's currency has devalued almost 60% since July 2006

While the currency devaluation might have helped the nation's export
(while forcing debtors taking haircuts), the domestic inflation, and asset
devaluation, most likely will wipe out the entire middle class

ashleey

Yes, but basically they have bankrupted the old guys but not their children!

We are trying the opposite! (but will end up bankrupting the old guys and the new guys!)

Note, that in my original link you will notice that CPI is now falling in Iceland.

As for the rest of your economic indicators, about the only one different to here is the currency devaluation (which explains inflation, through the rise in price of imports). If you use NAMA figures as a guide, then the figures for mortgage holders underwater is pretty much the same here.

Sand

It is odd that we dont here Lenny warning us about "Iceland! Iceland!" anymore. I had thought the seas had risen up and drowned a country so silly as the Icelanders for letting their banks fail and not rescuing the bondholders.

thebman

thee glitz wrote: »

ooh ooh ooh!

Inflation has soared 41 percent from January 2007 through September this year

Real disposable incomes slumped 20.3 percent last year

Real wages fell 10.1 percent from the beginning of 2007 through August this year

63 percent of the nation's mortgage is underwater

40 percent of homeowners are "technically insolvent"

Iceland's currency has devalued almost 60% since July 2006

While the currency devaluation might have helped the nation's export
(while forcing debtors taking haircuts), the domestic inflation, and asset
devaluation, most likely will wipe out the entire middle class

Yes well they were going to take pain either way much like us.

It was simply a matter of spreading it over 10 years and having a lost generation or a sharp correction and rebuild/get on with it.

Our politicians took the slow, lost generation method in the hope to save invested interests and avoid extreme decision making.

Atlantic Dawn

Iceland is in a position Ireland could only dream of, they have a much smaller debt per person as a result of their banks collapsing, they have their own currency that they can control and they also have vast fishing grounds that they control.

ashleey

So we give up then?

K-9

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Iceland is in a position Ireland could only dream of, they have a much smaller debt per person as a result of their banks collapsing, they have their own currency that they can control and they also have vast fishing grounds that they control.

The difference there is they have a weak currency and mortgage payments keep going up because of that, giving you the 63 and 40% figures thebman posted.

I suppose you'd really have to ask an Icelander how great things are, to see if the grass is greener.

BeeDI

thee glitz wrote: »

ooh ooh ooh!

Inflation has soared 41 percent from January 2007 through September this year

Real disposable incomes slumped 20.3 percent last year

Real wages fell 10.1 percent from the beginning of 2007 through August this year

63 percent of the nation's mortgage is underwater

40 percent of homeowners are "technically insolvent"

Iceland's currency has devalued almost 60% since July 2006

While the currency devaluation might have helped the nation's export
(while forcing debtors taking haircuts), the domestic inflation, and asset
devaluation, most likely will wipe out the entire middle class

Plus they cannot buy a Big Mac, even if they have a few Krone in their pockets on a Friday evening.:o

jmayo

BeeDI wrote: »

Plus they cannot buy a Big Mac, even if they have a few Krone in their pockets on a Friday evening.:o

So they will probably be eating healthier.

Amhran Nua

ashleey wrote: »

So we give up then?

Give up what?

ashleey

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Give up what?

Cheese?

Richard tea

So, remind me again. Which country took the correct measures

IRELAND Vs ICELAND

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/iceland-exits/

SBWife

How about we wait and see what the IMF says after the board discussions scheduled for tomorrow?

Richard tea

SBWife wrote: »

How about we wait and see what the IMF says after the board discussions scheduled for tomorrow?

Where is this info likely to be published?

Thinkingaboutit

We should weep. This has long ceased to be an independent country. And the Army of Fail traitors still have vast pensions and expenses. Dying a death by a thousand cuts is not fun.

SBWife

Richard tea wrote: »

Where is this info likely to be published?

Same place as on the IMF.org website where they published the First and Second Review.

In May the discussion happened on the 16th. They released a press release that day outlining the basic gist of the discussion and the full report was published on the 20th of May.

Sand

I do recall saying (Back when "Iceland! Iceland!" mania was in full swing and Iceland was being soundly advised to load up the debt of its failed banks on the shoulders of its taxpayers like wise Ireland) that Iceland would get out of its mess far faster than Ireland would get out of its own. Here we are now: Iceland can issue its own debt and find a buyer. Its unemployment is high, but almost half of Irelands (which is still increasing). And as for its inflation - christ, what the heavily indebted in Ireland wouldnt give for a bit of inflation...

I cant really claim any prophetic powers of course. There are two ways of getting to the other side of a wall. Fling yourself at it screaming "Leeeeeroy Jenkins!!" until it collapses. Or use the door. Doesnt take too much to realise using the door is the better, faster option.

Zubeneschamali

Sand wrote: »

I cant really claim any prophetic powers of course.

But you are claiming prophetic powers. Nothing like the brutal Icelandic adjustment to ordinary people's finances has happened here, and saying that Iceland's way is better is just another way of saying that something worse is going to happen here someday soon.

And Iceland isn't out of the woods yet on Bank debt, the issue will probably take years to settle (very expensively).

jmayo

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

...
And Iceland Ireland isn't out of the woods yet on Bank debt, the issue will probably take years to settle (very expensively).

Just thought your last sentence could apply equally to Ireland.

Sand

@Zubeneschamali

But you are claiming prophetic powers.

Lets say you doused yourself in petrol and then reached for a cigarette lighter with a glint in your eye....

Assuming you survived would you hail me as a prophet because I might have said "Thats a pretty bad idea youve got there pal"?

Lets be clear here - a lot of downright STUPID policies were pursued in Ireland, and all along we were assured that those policies were actually the wise and correct course. We were assured that Iceland would be devoured by the forces of darkness.

The claim of prophesy is double-edged...it somehow excuses the idiots who pursued and defended those policies: "Shure only a prophet could have known the bank guarantee wouldnt have worked out!"

No, not only a prophet. Any bloody eejit would have known. It was a DUMB policy and it should have been reversed as soon as it became apparent how DUMB it was. Instead, the "wise and steady" crowd kept digging and digging for Australia....

Where is where most of our graduates are heading.

Nothing like the brutal Icelandic adjustment to ordinary people's finances has happened here, and saying that Iceland's way is better is just another way of saying that something worse is going to happen here someday soon.

Nothing like the brutal Icelandic or Irish adjustments have happened to me. Im earning about 150% of what I earned in 2006. I've had a pretty good recession.

But go and tell those on the dole queues that "nothing like the brutal Icelandic adjustment to ordinary peoples finances has happened here". I have a family member who was unemployed for the first time in decades (ever?) in 2009-2011 and who is now working a job which is quite frankly ****. And which pays ****. And they are glad to have it. Because being unemployed, feeling unwanted or unrequired is deeply damaging to anyones sense of their self - especially to people who pride themselves on being hard working. Try telling him theres been no brutal adjustments based on your own anecdotal evidence and hype.

What youre trying to say is that certain sections of the Irish state - those with large bank deposits, the well off - were protected at the expense of their fellow citizens - those without large bank desposits - who were thrown to the ****ing wolves. No change there I guess.

For the record the Irish unemployment rate is twice the Icelandic rate.

K-9

Sand wrote: »

For the record the Irish unemployment rate is twice the Icelandic rate.

Iceland generally always had very low Unemployment compared to Ireland, during the 80's and most of the 90's we'd have dreamt of rates of 3/4%.

Statistics Iceland - Statistics » Wages, income and labour market » Labour market

Sand

So...Iceland has historically ran its economy better than Ireland has? Im not seeing how this redeems Irish unemployment.

K-9

Sand wrote: »

So...Iceland has historically ran its economy better than Ireland has? Im not seeing how this redeems Irish unemployment.

It doesn't redeem Irish unemployment, neither does saying Iceland has half the unemployment rate of Ireland's redeem Iceland's!

Some said we would have had 18/20% Unemployment last year, we didn't. Is it something to write home about? No. It just means the Unemployment level has remained pretty level for a year or so.

As for Iceland running its economy better, well you'd have to point out how Iceland has ran its economically better than Ireland seeing as I never said that. I just said historically Iceland has a very small Unemployment rate compared to Ireland. 4% is considered full employment yet Iceland consistently got less for years!

Maybe we should take a closer look at Iceland in the 80's seeing as it has virtually no Unemployment!

Sand

The point on unemployment was made regarding the claim that "Nothing like the brutal Icelandic adjustment to ordinary people's finances has happened here"

Unemployment is a pretty brutal adjustment to ordinary peoples finances and a far higher proporition of Irish people have had to make that brutal adjustment from independance to dependance than Icelandic people have.

I dont see why this point is being argued. Its undeniably true. The end.

K-9

Sand wrote: »

The point on unemployment was made regarding the claim that "Nothing like the brutal Icelandic adjustment to ordinary people's finances has happened here"

Unemployment is a pretty brutal adjustment to ordinary peoples finances and a far higher proporition of Irish people have had to make that brutal adjustment from independance to dependance than Icelandic people have.

I dont see why this point is being argued. Its undeniably true. The end.

Grand. It's also undeniably true that Iceland is suffering huge unemployment compared to its historical averages in the 80's and 90's. We're back to our usual levels.

Dirk Gently

Interesting to see the former icelandic PM's comments as he awaits trial for the collapse of their banks. He said he saved the economy from going off a cliff and pointed to Ireland and Greece as examples of what not to do regarding guaranteeing external bank debt.

Looks like his defence is "at least we're not Ireland."

RichardAnd

K-9 wrote: »

Grand. It's also undeniably true that Iceland is suffering huge unemployment compared to its historical averages in the 80's and 90's. We're back to our usual levels.

Well considering that the Irish state has had double digit unemployment and high levels of emigration since its birth, I would say you are correct that the norm has returned

SBWife

Dirk Gently wrote: »

Interesting to see the former icelandic PM's comments as he awaits trial for the collapse of their banks. He said he saved the economy from going off a cliff and pointed to Ireland and Greece as examples of what not to do regarding guaranteeing external bank debt.

Looks like his defence is "at least we're not Ireland."

Idiot, if they were Ireland there's no way in hell he'd be awaiting trial. The most he'd have to face would be an ex-girlfriend suggesting he "just shut up" in a national newspaper.

Tora Bora

Iceland, have really gone over the edge now :D:D:D:D:D

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/keano-linked-to-managerrsquos-job-at-rock-bottom-iceland-2866871.html

Keano linked to manager’s job at rock bottom Iceland




Iceland’s football association are refusing to comment on reports that controversial Corkman Roy Keane has been offered the job as manager's of the national team.
Reports emerged this morning that former Manchester United captain Keane has held talks to replace manager Olafur Johannesson.

The current boss is due to leave his position next month after four years in the job.

The Icelandic FA told RTÉ: "There are a number of managers linked the role.

‘’We have had several names linked including domestic managers, Roy Keane and former Sweden boss Lars Lagerback.

"We can't confirm or deny if Roy Keane is in contention for the job and there will be no further comment."

Keane is expected in Reykjavik to watch Iceland's Euro 2012 qualifier against Cyprus on Tuesday.

He sensationally walked out on the Irish team at the 2002 World Cup finals in Saipan.

Iceland are currently rock bottom of their Euro 2012 qualifier table after a dismal campaign.

Debtocracy

All credit to Iceland at the end of the day

pog it

The difference between Iceland and Ireland?

The people.

SBWife

Richard tea wrote: »

Where is this info likely to be published?

Results of the 3rd review are up on the IMF website.