restrictions - certificate?

Hi guys.

Boyfriend has a VFR 400, on a provisional licence. been insured and driving it for over a year. Insurance company wrote today and said that he's got to prove the bike is restricted or lose the insurance. He says that the certificates aren't worth the paper they're written on? I don't even think he knows where to get them? Then how do you prove to your insurance company that the bike is restricted?

(I haven't the faintest iota on any matters regarding motorbikes - but I have a boards account and he doesn't - so I'm asking the question).

Thanks in advance.

KamiKazi

If you sure it's restricted ask the insurance company to specify what cert. exactly they're looking for.

And say you're more than happy to have it inspected by a mechanic if they pay for it.

cantdecide

The only company doing these 33bhp restriction kits are "FI international" in the UK.

If the bike is restricted and he never got the cert from the seller, he can go to an FI agent (most reputable bike shops) and ask them to get a new cert in his name. The original cert is issued against the Vehicle Identity Number (VIN number) so there will be records if it was restricted in the past. The shop has to inspect the bike and ensure the kit is still in place. There's an admin charge and the shop might want money for workshop time but the cert will stand.

At the very outside, he'll have to have a new kit installed with a new cert and that won't cost more than €300 all in. They will accept certs from FI no prob, by the way.

cantdecide

The only other possibility is that it's a "Factory Restricted" bike. That is to say that it left the factory with the potential for full power, albeit restricted to 33bhp by the manufacturer. If this is the case, he'll have to go to a Honda main dealer and get them to chase a replacement certificate.

hobochris

A mechanics cert is as good. if its restricted get a mechanic to inspect and certify it.

Thanks for the replies

The bike is 20 years old and was 59bhp when new. It's a Japanese import. (I'm being told what to write now!!) He mentioned dyno testing, his usual mechanic does this (no idea of the cost as yet). I think he's assuming that the bike being as old as it is is probably within the limits regardless of what it was when new... if this is the case, would a certificate from the mechanic who performs the testing satisfy the restriction? Or does it have to be restricted with the washers on the carburette? Basically I suppose is it the original power of the bike, or the power the bike probably now has left in it's quickly deteriorating body.... AFAIK the bike is not currently restrictedand sounds like a lawnmower.

(Not his first bike, but his first since moving here from the UK and on an Irish provisional licence).

Thanks again, honestly I don't have a clue what I'm talking about but it's all extremely helpful!!

EvilMonkey

It might have lost some power, i doubt it would have lost half. You would want to ask the insurance co if they would be happy with a dyno cert I don't think so because a dyno run could easily be faked.

Thanks again guys. Looks like he'll just have to pay for the restrictions and cert. I know he's just looking for ways around it!! Ah well, was worth a shot!

Has anyone else heard that the FI International certs aren't worth the paper they're printed on? This is what he was trying to explain to the insurance company this evening based on something he read on a biker forum last year?

If it's been performed by a mechanic surely the certification is as good as any other.

KamiKazi

Yup there's no legal requirement for you to have any cert.

Try explaining that to Quinn though :mad:

KamiKazi

KamiKazi wrote: »

Yup there's no legal requirement for you to have any cert.

Try explaining that to Quinn though :mad:

DITTO.

Though fair enough, he doesn't think the bike is restricted so legally he should get that done (cert or no cert). Why they let him on with it for a year though, and only call him on it now his tax is up for renewal, is strange.

Idleater

KamiKazi wrote: »

Yup there's no legal requirement for you to have any cert.

Try explaining that to Quinn though :mad:

I think Quinn and the other insurers are aware that the restriction of bikes is hit and miss. Hence why they only fussed over you getting some piece of paper so they were sure to have "proof" you told them the bike was restricted.
They charged you full unrestricted whack and let you away. The factory restricted versions of these bikes were the only ones that were cheaper to insure.
What appears to have happened now is Quinn are getting stricter on what they accept as "restricted" and insurable, probably due to some taking the mick!

The only thing to be compliant with the law is to have a bike within your licence terms and be insured within those terms.

Idleater

Idleater wrote: »

The only thing to be compliant with the law is to have a bike within your licence terms and be insured within those terms.

Yep, that is my concern with this bike and certificate! (Other than having teeny small wrists useful for slipping around exhaust pipes and engines to tighten bolts or retrieve trapped screwdrivers I don't think I even know what colour the bike is!) but compliance with the law is something I attempt to impose in my household... Good news, he called in a favour he was owed by a friend who can do the restrictions and cert for an affordable price.

Thanks for the help and advice folks!

P.C.

Deleted User wrote: »

Good news, he called in a favour he was owed by a friend who can do the restrictions and cert for an affordable price.

Glad he is getting it sorted.

Next time his insurance is up for renewal, get him to ring around to the other three companies that do bike insurance in Ireland - he might get a better deal.

Del2005

Deleted User wrote: »

(Not his first bike, but his first since moving here from the UK and on an Irish provisional licence).

What type if licence did he have in the UK? If it was full he can transfer it to an Irish full or not bother, but he can ride on it and insurance companies accept it.

sinbad76

I got the same in the post today from Quinn for my GS650. In UK there are forums which mention a restrictor on the throttle cable for £20 which you can fit yourself. I'd say that with a mechanics stamp on a dated dyno printout should suffice. There isn't a legal restrictor certificate as such, and FI International are ripping people off charging £172 for two washers fitted to the carburettor & exhaust. I guess insurance companies are within their rights to look for proof the rider is legally entitled to ride the bike. But the proof required is open to interpretation.

Quinn General Exceptions


"3 We will not cover the rider unless they:
a.
hold a license to ride the motorcycle, or have held and are not disqualified from holding or getting a license;
and
b.
meet the conditions and any limits of the driving license"

KamiKazi

You don't need any certificate to meet the terms of your licence and insurance

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

What type if licence did he have in the UK? If it was full he can transfer it to an Irish full or not bother, but he can ride on it and insurance companies accept it.

AFAIK it didn't entitle him to ride a bike any more powerful than the Irish provisional allows, so it was easier for him to just apply here.

KamiKazi

KamiKazi wrote: »

You don't need any certificate to meet the terms of your licence and insurance

Like you said before, try explaining that to Quinn :mad: Did you manage to sort something like this out with them without having to get a cert yourself?

KamiKazi

Deleted User wrote: »

Like you said before, try explaining that to Quinn :mad: Did you manage to sort something like this out with them without having to get a cert yourself?

They sent me a request for it in August when I was off the road, haven't sent it in for my new bike. Have the cert just don't want to send it in out of principal

Idleater

KamiKazi wrote: »

Have the cert just don't want to send it in out of principal

Stick it to the man!



Better still, send them in a photocopy of a graph drawn by hand... signed by you.

When I went through the "send us the cert" saga, for a FR bike :rolleyes: I had to explain that the 5555555 in section J or whatever of the Registration Certificate confirmed that it was FR. They asked me to explain it so I said ring Suzuki. They have the DB of all ECU/Chasisis that are FR. Talking to the wall I tell you - and that wasn't quinn.

Del2005

It's a bit silly all right. They want a cert to proof the bike is legal for your licence but the cert isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I wonder if they are doing this as a valid excuse to void 1st party claims and make it easy to recoup 3rd party payouts? They ask you to provide proof you're legal on the bike. When you have a claim they check your licence, check bike out to see if the restrictor is still there and if not they've documented proof you lied and are riding outside the terms of your licence.

Ah yes, I am wondering how long the restrictors stay on for. Himself claims that Quinn only became aware of the bhp of his bike when his tax was up for renewal, dunno how true that is. He's gone and got the work done this afternoon anyway, hopefully it'll be a b@stard of a job so he's not tempted to set about removing them. The new exhaust was dilemma enough, can picture spending tomorrow afternoon kneeling in a puddle with my hands inside the bike again.

No one's going to openly admit to it (you wouldn't be very smart to) but in your opinion, do people actually keep the restrictors on the bike after they've satisfied the insurance companies?

EvilMonkey

People have been ignoring it for years, not long ago insurance companies would never ask for prof of restriction, unless they were giving a discount to factory restricted bikes. Recently in Cork after a few incidents involving restricted riders the guards have started to clamp down on people riding unrestricted bikes. Now insurance companies are starting to look for proof of restriction Its not that far fetched that the guards have got on to the insurance companies and asked them to start looking for this.

Needs proper regulation set in place I suppose. Mandatory certs without having riders being ripped off to the sum of a few hundred euro for a little bit of work and a piece of paper? Boyfriend has been advised to laminate one copy of the cert and keep it with him in case he's stopped by the gaurds. Like you guys have said, he doesn't have to, but it wont hurt if he does.

P.C.

sinbad76 wrote: »

I got the same in the post today from Quinn for my GS650. In UK there are forums which mention a restrictor on the throttle cable for £20 which you can fit yourself. I'd say that with a mechanics stamp on a dated dyno printout should suffice. There isn't a legal restrictor certificate as such, and FI International are ripping people off charging £172 for two washers fitted to the carburettor & exhaust. I guess insurance companies are within their rights to look for proof the rider is legally entitled to ride the bike. But the proof required is open to interpretation.

Quinn General Exceptions


"3 We will not cover the rider unless they:
a.
hold a license to ride the motorcycle, or have held and are not disqualified from holding or getting a license;
and
b.
meet the conditions and any limits of the driving license"

* MOD HAT ON *

Please don't drag up UK laws and restriction limitions, as they do not necessarily appply in this jurisdiction.

* MOD HAT OFF *


Guys, it is my understanding that Quinn has the financial regulator looking over their shoulder, and I think that they are just trying to do everything by the book.