Irish People Wearing the Poppy...

Ald

It just doesn't look right.... lol... Dara Ó Briain, Mary Byrne, Rebecca and Niall. Do you agree? Obviously, it's expected if you go on BBC or ITV but is it right? They wouldn't wear it in Ireland so why wear it in Britain? Is it an unwritten rule? Don't offend the hand that feeds you? Remember Jon Snow deciding not to wear it and the fuss that kicked up. Is it right to have politics and patriotism in your face the way the Brits do? On the X Factor they've even sexed it up! It's a bit far if you ask me and I hope the Lilly never takes off in the same way here...

No offense meant. Don't want to get into the ins and outs of history, just the right to stay on the fence and not have to endure this year in, year out...

vincentdunne

What's the problem? It is a token to remember people who have died. Jeez, you have little to worry you. Now if they were wearing a REAL poppy, it would be a matter of conservation and therefore a genuine cause for concern.

thebullkf

Ald wrote: »

It just doesn't look right.... lol... Dara Ó Briain, Mary Byrne, Rebecca and Niall. Do you agree? Obviously, it's expected if you go on BBC or ITV but is it right? They wouldn't wear it in Ireland so why wear it in Britain? Is it an unwritten rule? Don't offend the hand that feeds you? Remember Jon Snow deciding not to wear it and the fuss that kicked up. Is it right to have politics and patriotism in your face the way the Brits do? On the X Factor they've even sexed it up! It's a bit far if you ask me and I hope the Lilly never takes off in the same way here...

No offense meant. Don't want to get into the ins and outs of history, just the right to stay on the fence and not have to endure this year in, year out...

then , sadly you must shut up;)

Ald

I haven't got a problem with it as such but it is in your face and seems like it's a necessary thing to do if you go on British telly at this time of year.

As an aside, I don't like the way it's very selective in who it remembers. How many people have been killed in the Afghan and Iraqi armies and civilians too in helping the British strikes in foreign countries? Is it to say that British lives are worth more than other peoples' who have lost their lives in British occupations even though they are innocent or help the British side?

I think it's a fundamentally flawed symbol of patriotism and in your face. But my opinion of the poppy is seperate to my point of disscussion; that it's possibly forced upon people on British telly.

vincentdunne

What a strange person you are. I quite object to being 'forced' to watch x factor and other crap ....... so, I don't. Try it.

Ald

What a strange person you are. I quite object to being 'forced' to watch x factor and other crap ....... so, I don't. Try it.

Well, I don't watch X Factor actually. But I do watch a lot of British telly 'cause I think it's very good! But I get the feeling it's probably pushed on people as they go on air. It's a valid arguement. I don't see why you're getting so worked up about it. It's something I disagree with. It's my opinion and wanted to see if anyone agreed. So what.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I don't see why so many of you feel the need to be arsey in your replies.

If Irish people wearing the poppies doesn't bother you, then that was all you needed to say.

As for "don't watch the x factor" well it doesn't matter what you watch this time of year, there's poppies everywhere.

Personally I don't see why they have to wear them for so long, Remembrance Day isn't until November 11th, so why are we looking at them for 2 or 3 weeks before hand?
The point of Remembrance Day is to remember those members of the armed forces and civilians who died "in times of war" specifically since WW1, which would technically include all the British Army casualties during the Irish Civil war in the 1920's and also during the troubles in Northern Ireland.
So if anything I think it's kind of hypocritical for Irish people to be wearing the poppy. However, if they chose to wear it on British TV, let them at it. It's probably a case of it being less hassle for them to just agree to it, than to kick up a fuss about it.
It's not like they're going around waving the union jack and singing God Save The Queen.

goose2005

Ireland fought in WW1 as well. No stranger than a French or Italian person wearing it. However, it's annoying that it seems to come earlier every year, they've been wearing them since late Oct, when it should just be 11/11. And it's a bit strange that we're still commemorating a war with about 5 living veterans.

yosemite_sam

I am English myself, and have never worn one. The people on the TV are being paid by the State and must be seen to be setting a good example. I think it supports the Royal British Legion, which does a lot of good work with old soldiers.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

goose2005 wrote: »

Ireland fought in WW1 as well. No stranger than a French or Italian person wearing it. However, it's annoying that it seems to come earlier every year, they've been wearing them since late Oct, when it should just be 11/11. And it's a bit strange that we're still commemorating a war with about 5 living veterans.

I know Irish people died in both world wars, but the thing that bothers me most is that it comes across as a very "British" thing. They should do away with it completely and have one day worldwide that promotes peace rather than remembering war.

Ald

I am English myself, and have never worn one.

Just as I wouldn't with the Irish equivolant; the Lilly. If you want to remember and donate all well and good. Actually, it's very good because soldiers aren't political, often it's just young lads getting a job and not realising what they're getting themselves into and end up with as many psychological problems as much as physical problems. Just think it's not something that needs to be shunned but also think it's not something that should be forced on you. It's a fine balance!

Ald

so what if Irish people wear it so what if it's for English soldiers it's idiots like you that Irish English tensions still exist. There was many Irish people who lost there lifes in the English army fighting against evil and to give idiots like you freedom serouisly idiots like you are the reason this country is in the **** with your 1916 attitude.I'm going to buy a poppy now just in spite

Well, it appears that if I were to go on British telly my freedom not to wear a poppy would be very limited indeed. It's obviously not that freedom you speak of. That's your opinion and glad you shared it. 1916 is something I'm proud of and won't be ashamed of it. I'm actually very progressive and not somebody that dwells on history anyways. I know what I think is all and just wanted to express my opinion of what I see on telly daily at the moment.

Btw, I don't think I'm small minded enough to think that all problems would lie with England if I did have that modus of thinking. Wouldn't it more likely be Irish/British?! Just a small point...

ricero

Ald wrote: »

Well, it appears that if I were to go on British telly my freedom not to wear a poppy would be very limited indeed. It's obviously not that freedom you speak of. That's your opinion and glad you shared it. 1916 is something I'm proud of and won't be ashamed of it. I'm actually very progressive and not somebody that dwells on history anyways. I know what I think is all and just wanted to express my opinion of what I see on telly daily at the moment.

I'm proud of 1916 I'm proud of my Irish heritage but it's time for people to move on England is our neighbour there our allies I love England lovely country great tv much better then Irish tv if they have to wear the poppy then they should be proud to wear that poppy people sacraficed there family and lives fighting for the freedom of the world they deserve there recognition

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ricero wrote: »

so what if Irish people wear it so what if it's for English soldiers it's idiots like you that Irish English tensions still exist. There was many Irish people who lost there lifes in the English army fighting against evil and to give idiots like you freedom serouisly idiots like you are the reason this country is in the **** with your 1916 attitude.I'm going to buy a poppy now just in spite

Maybe your money would be better spent on commas and full stops, and a better grasp of the English language in general.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ricero wrote: »

I'm proud of 1916 I'm proud of my Irish heritage but it's time for people to move on England is our neighbour there our allies I love England lovely country great tv much better then Irish tv if they have to wear the poppy then they should be proud to wear that poppy people sacraficed there family and lives fighting for the freedom of the world they deserve there recognition

Are you saying we should over look hundreds of years of oppression because they make better T.V.?

Misty Midlands

Personally, I don't like to see Irish people on TV wearing the poppy.
It reminds me of when I was young in Derry and sectereanism.
Protestants wore the poppy, Catholics didn't and they got more searches from the soldiers and police at that time of year.

ArtSmart

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I know Irish people died in both world wars, but the thing that bothers me most is that it comes across as a very "British" thing. They should do away with it completely and have one day worldwide that promotes peace rather than remembering war.

Yes, i think (i think)the point being made by the OP and elaborated by tickle is the possible subtext, the appropriation of WWI as an exclusively British thing (although it's defined as a commonwealth thing, the other commonwealth countries do not give the day (or month) the same credence) with possible shades of imperialism - possible, not certain.

I'd like to see a universal symbol and if the intention is a 'least we forget' (the horror of war, as well as the sacrifice) then the British should have no probs with that.

ETA The further problem is a subtext attachment to Britain's current military involvements and therefore it can be seen to attach itself to implicit support for same. - more so than most widely worn symbols / icons

Ald

I'm proud of 1916 I'm proud of my Irish heritage but it's time for people to move on England is our neighbour there our allies I love England lovely country great tv much better then Irish tv if they have to wear the poppy then they should be proud to wear that poppy people sacraficed there family and lives fighting for the freedom of the world they deserve there recognition

English spelling and punctuation is something that I love too.

I'm not trying to test Irish/British relations. I'm trying to be more mature than that and discuss it for what it is. People on telly being coherced into wearing a symbol that praises a foreign nation's army dead. Now, it's not something I'd do whether it be France, Italy or Britain. In my opinion the poppy is very biased over who and what it remembers. Not saying it's entirely distasteful but not perfect. And certainly not perfect the amount of time it's worn for as pointed out by a previous poster.

hotmail.com

Don't watch British tv. Problem solved.

ricero

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Are you saying we should over look hundreds of years of oppression because they make better T.V.?

Yes

yosemite_sam

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-415488/Newsreader-Jon-Snow-rails-poppy-fascism.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-415488/Newsreader-Jon-Snow-rails-poppy-fascism.html

yosemite_sam

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-415488/Newsreader-Jon-Snow-rails-poppy-fascism.html

baldbear

There's huge pressure put on anyone on British tv to wear the poppy. I'd say alot of people wear it so they won't get any hassle.

It's getting rediculous how early they are been worn too. John Snow is getting alot of abuse for refusing to wear it.

hotmail.com

baldbear wrote: »

There's huge pressure put on anyone on British tv to wear the poppy. I'd say alot of people wear it so they won't get any hassle.

It's getting rediculous how early they are been worn too. John Snow is getting alot of abuse for refusing to wear it.

Why doesn't he wear it?

alandublin15

well its like this, you have to put yourself in their situation. its an obvious dilemma; a) you dont mind wearing it so no problem, off and buy one. or b) you have some reason, valid or not, politically correct or not, that you dont want to wear it.

normally it would just be a simple case of not doing the thing you dont want to. but in reality as one guy above said "It's probably a case of it being less hassle for them to just agree to it, than to kick up a fuss about it". you see its probably a case where if you're in england then no reason for you not wearing it will generally be entertained, which isn't really fair.
so that leaves the choice of (a) selling out or (b) taking the heat.

the middle ground, the solution if you're the type who doesnt want to wear it, yet doesnt want the unfair crap....(c) steal one.
you dont sell your soul or take any ignorance, plus it can be re-used year after year. enviromentally and economically friendly.

mathepac

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

... Personally I don't see why they have to wear them for so long, Remembrance Day isn't until November 11th, so why are we looking at them for 2 or 3 weeks before hand? ...

Because the sale of poppies, beginning in late Sept / early Oct, is one of several fund-raising initiatives undertaken by the Royal British Legion in the period leading up to Remembrance Sunday and Armistice Day.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

... technically include all the British Army casualties during the Irish Civil war in the 1920's ...

There were no British Army casualties during the Irish Civil War. WWI / Boer War British ex-servicemen (Irishmen) may have served on the pro- and anti-treaty sides but the British Army took no part in the Irish Civil War, maybe you mean the Irish War of Independence.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

... It's not like they're going around waving the union jack and singing God Save The Queen.

Anyone attending any of the events (rugby, golf, soccer, marathon, concerts, etc.) will be expected to do exactly that whether Mrs. Windsor, Phil the Greek, Goodtime Charlie or any of the other offspring of the Greco-German dynasty attend.

Ald

the middle ground, the solution if you're the type who doesnt want to wear it, yet doesnt want the unfair crap....(c) steal one.
you dont sell your soul or take any ignorance, plus it can be re-used year after year. enviromentally and economically friendly.

haha! Very clever! Lol...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

OK, I just looked this up, and the money from the Poppies goes to the British Legion, which is a charity for the armed forces.
So, although Remembrance Day is supposed to be for all people, civilians or army, that died in times of war, the poppies themselves are for the British Army.

In that respect I don't see why anyone, Irish, British, or other, should be forced to wear one, and it should not be seen as disrespecting the dead if someone doesn't wear one.
It's the same as saying you're disrespecting cancer patients by not wearing a daffodil on daffodil day.

Ald

Because the sale of poppies, beginning in late Sept / early Oct, is one of several fund-raising initiatives undertaken by the Royal British Legion in the period leading up to Remembrance Sunday and Armistice Day.

Is there no other way of doing it though? That they sell the poppy but it only be worn on the 11th maybe? Does it have to be publicly displayed on telly for 2 full weeks though? So BBC, ITV and Ch4 are publicity for a charity effectively for 2 weeks?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

mathepac wrote: »

Anyone attending any of the events (rugby, golf, soccer, marathon, concerts, etc.) will be expected to do exactly that whether Mrs. Windsor, Phil the Greek, Goodtime Charlie or any of the other offspring of the Greco-German dynasty attend.

I was talking about the Irish people wearing a poppy on TV shows. Not the general public. I haven't watched XFactor for a while, but I'm sure the Queen isn't a regular guest on there.

DominoDub

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

Ireland was a part of the UK during World War I. The following estimates of Irish deaths, within contemporary borders, during the war were made by a Russian journalist in a 2004 handbook of human losses in the 20th century. Total dead 51,000: including military losses 50,000 with the British forces. POW deaths in captivity of 1,000

hotmail.com

Ald wrote: »

Is there no other way of doing it though? That they sell the poppy but it only be worn on the 11th maybe? Does it have to be publicly displayed on telly for 2 full weeks though? So BBC, ITV and Ch4 are publicity for a charity effectively for 2 weeks?

Why do you care about what British channels spend their money on?

Ald

So, although Remembrance Day is supposed to be for all people, civilians or army, that died in times of war, the poppies themselves are for the British Army.

This particularly gets to me. Look here. Where are the Afghan faces? I watched a documentary on the mission in Afghanistan recently and they went into how they are training up the Afghan army alongside the British. They are effectively fighting together. So a bomb goes off. Two soldiers side by side. Two of them suffer equally. Legs lost and hearing badly damaged. Who comes out the better for a British/American battle? The British guy of course. It's not the sort of message I'd be likely to pin to my lapel.

mathepac

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

... I haven't watched XFactor for a while, but I'm sure the Queen isn't a regular guest on there.

Neither have I - Simon from Dagenham, his audience, viewers and his male / female bitches don't interest me in the slightest

Krusader

Isn't there a white poppy that represents people from different countries that died in action, i think the red one only represents British servicemen
They should at least give non-British people the choice of colour to wear

alandublin15

you vill vear our national and social symbol like all good citizens or else.

Ald

Why do you care about what British channels spend their money on?

I pay a subscription to a digital T.V. company that I presume pays for the broadcast of these channels in Ireland. I like British telly. I want to pass comment on it. Am I not allowed? Do you not think criticism is a good thing? To have an opinion I thought was something to be praised? I think I've been level headed. I don't think I've ranted.

hotmail.com

Ald wrote: »

I pay a subscription to a digital T.V. company that I presume pays for the broadcast of these channels in Ireland. I like British telly. I want to pass comment on it. Am I not allowed? Do you not think criticism is a good thing? To have an opinion I thought was something to be praised? I think I've been level headed. I don't think I've ranted.

Of course you can have an opinion, I just don't see why anyone would care if another person, who happens to be Irish, is wearing a poppy or not. It's not illegal.

If it's an-English thing, I don't understand why you watch British tv.

mathepac

Ald wrote: »

Is there no other way of doing it though? ...

Jeeze, I don't know. As an Irish citizen it doesn't effect me one way or another.

LordSutch

Ald wrote: »

1916 is something I'm proud of and won't be ashamed of it. I'm actually very progressive and not somebody that dwells on history anyways. I know what I think is all and just wanted to express my opinion of what I see on telly daily at the moment.

Btw, I don't think I'm small minded enough to think that all problems would lie with England if I did have that modus of thinking. Wouldn't it more likely be Irish/British?! Just a small point...

You mention 1916, one of the worst years for Irish casualties on the western front, most of whom were gunned down on the poppy fields!

PS; Now that we are all beginning to recognise the massive loss of Irish life in the Great War + WWII, who might be the first Irish TV presenter to stick his head over the metaphorical parapet and wear a Poppy live on Irish TV (RTE/TV3/TG4) and what would the response be from the public?

Chiorino

I don't see any issue with it in the slightest. As an Irish person, and former member of the British forces, I wear one every year. The only problem I have is the difficulty getting them here. I usually have to get a couple sent over by a friend. Considering the amount of Irishmen who died I don't think it should be an issue at all.

CokaColumbo

I support where the money raised goes but I think the poppy itself is a symbol of British patriotism and sign of allegiance to Britain. You can say that it only commemorates the soldiers themselves and not British aggression or nationalism but I think the connotations go further than that and I do not want to be associated with it.

Ald

I don't see any issue with it in the slightest. As an Irish person, and former member of the British forces, I wear one every year. The only problem I have is the difficulty getting them here. I usually have to get a couple sent over by a friend. Considering the amount of Irishmen who died I don't think it should be an issue at all.

Well, obviously, you would buy one if you were in the force and affected by what you saw and had that connection. I can totally understand that. But as an Irish national not connected at all I don't see why Irish people equally detached from the force wear it on British telly. And by the way many Irish people died in many wars across the world. Arguably, more died in British conflicts than any other, but still, it makes more sense for us to buy a non-descript symbol or remembrance. For instance, I have ancestors that fought in the Spanish civil war. (But I think it's not so much for remembrance as it is for raising money for troops of today's conflicts.)

Auvers

ricero wrote: »

the English army fighting against evil and to give idiots like you freedom

hahahahaha that gave me a great chuckle thanks

baldbear

hotmail.com wrote: »

Why doesn't he wear it?

He says he doesn't wear any symbols while on tv but does when he's in private. Which is fair enough but not for some media. Poppy madness gone OTT.

ednwireland

Crosáidí wrote: »

Isn't there a white poppy that represents people from different countries that died in action, i think the red one only represents British servicemen
They should at least give non-British people the choice of colour to wear

http://www.whitepoppy.org.uk/

Ald

I remember I tried to discuss it with somebody from Britain like I have you here and the response I got was:

"Youre an arrogant ****, like the majority of your countrymen !"

I don't know if that was justified or not but that's what I got...

hotmail.com

Ald wrote: »

I remember I tried to discuss it with somebody from Britain like I have you here and the response I got was:

"Youre an arrogant ****, like the majority of your countrymen !"

I don't know if that was justified or not but that's what I got...

I still don't get why you watch British tv.

Ald

I still don't get why you watch British tv.

I love their fly-on-the-wall documentaries. They're top class. Was only watching one the other night on student surgeons on ITV. Love David Attenborough. Ch4 have excellent ones too and their news coverage is excellent on world affairs. All in all I have to give it to them on that front.

Nolanger

vincentdunne wrote: »

What's the problem? It is a token to remember people who have died.

It's to remember the British army including the ones who killed Irish on this island. We should not wear it no matter how much we're supposed to have 'moved on'.

Ald

It's to remember the British army including the ones who killed Irish on this island. We should not wear it no matter how much we're supposed to have 'moved on'.

I agree with you that elements of the British army did awful things here. Aughnacloy for instance. But that would be like calling all priests paedos. It's not generally accepted as an arguement. But, personally, as an Irish man I could think of a 100 better causes to donate my money to before the poppy appeal. The Simon, Barnardos, V de P, Oxfam, Red Cross, Medecins Sans Frontieres..... etc. etc. etc.