General nonsense in Bands/Musicians forum

Sandvich

I didn't really want to post this as generally I get nowhere with this sort of thing, but basically some guy started tearing into me for no reason(I don't accept "sounding inexperienced" or "Being indecisive" as a reason) in a thread I made in the Band/Musicians forum, Malice agreed with the guy and even when I pressed him several times showing him the insults he made, he stuck to his guns and so did Papa Smut when I reported the posts. I had also pointed out how I've had bad experience which has led me to become very nervous with these things, yet far from understanding that, I got treated amazingly poorly overall.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056064195

Both Malice and Papa Smut made actual factual errors in their assertions, which is what's made me angry enough to come here. Malice claimed(by way of a patronising metaphor) I was trying to stop people from going through with the jam night, which wasn't true, and Papa Smut claimed I was wrong when he couldn't even get what the offending party, TheStickyBandit, said. He basically claimed he only called me a "cribber", which apparently isn't an insult, when he also said I was bitching, moaning, and called me a time waster.

It's one thing to get banned from posting in my own thread(seriously like), but another when the mods can lie about what was actually said on top of that.

I pointed this out to Papa Smut, and then he said he wasn't responding to any more of my PMs, and deflected me here, which is in my view quite childish. He replied once more anyway, but still couldn't admit to the factual error he made in his PM.

I can't get over how obviously ridiculous this looks yet the mods involved refuse to recognise it, Malice himself going so far as to use the same line of insult as TheStickyBandit. I particularly dislike when people use words like "Moaning" because it just means they don't have to give a proper response, after all, it's just whining.

My basic point is that Malice shouldn't have sided with a guy calling me a crybaby and time waster, and Papa Smut shouldn't have made a judgement when he didn't even know why I was so offended to begin with. When mods are riling people up instead of mediating, something's up. I don't like the idea I can't post in my own thread when I'm not the one who was out to cause trouble.

Malice

Okay, I'll deal with this point by point.

Sandvich wrote: »

basically some guy started tearing into me for no reason(I don't accept "sounding inexperienced" or "Being indecisive" as a reason) in a thread I made in the Band/Musicians forum

The "some guy" in question is TheStickyBandit. As for "tearing into you for no reason" I believe TheStickyBandit was expressing frustration at the lack of progress in getting something organised. His first post to do with that was on 29-10-2010 and is here:

Sorry lads ye'll have to count me out. There's too much BS for my liking, it's Cork not the outback, it aint that hard to get around!

That post was, I presume, due to the fact that after I posted on 23-10-2010 looking for attendees to decide on a date and time. At that stage I had thought that we had generally agreed on the location. After my post there are a bunch of posts like this:

Let's see if we can get more replies.

I could make it for 3 maybe that weekend then if I got an early train back, but I won't have a guitar or amp with me most likely

I'm not actually sure how to get out there. I Didn't realise how far out it was. I don't have transport or anything. Is there a bus that goes out there?

I was expecting a JCM800 or AC30 or JC120 or something. I suppose it's grand for a quick jam, but it's made me a lot less excited.

It really is a bit far out, shame there isn't somewhere city center.

it's awkward for me, I'm south side.

There's probably a lot of places you can jam in the city anyway, we should research it a bit more.

It might not be the most suitable place though. It is out of town up a hill, and the gear isn't necessarily the best.

No prizes for guessing whose posts they are. At this point in the thread the poster who won't just commit one way or another has been offered a lift and a lend of gear in an effort (in my case at least) to just get things started.

It's a little off-topic but in the last few years I've had a hand in organising people to attend quite a few activities from various band practice sessions to book clubs, tag rugby team, indoor and outdoor soccer teams and of course drinking sessions . The key I find is to eliminate as many variables as possible as quickly as possible. For example if you're organising a game of indoor soccer find out what day, time and venue suits the most people. You don't arrange to play each Monday evening at 7pm and then spend a week wondering if the most suitable venue has been chosen if no alternatives have been offered.
Obviously things need to be discussed but everyone needs to be proactive. There's no point in endlessly planning to do something. Just get it organised and get it done.

Malice agreed with the guy

Why have you written this again? As I told you on-thread: I said there was a lot of truth in what he wrote, not that he was 100% correct with what he wrote. There is a difference.

even when I pressed him several times showing him the insults he made, he stuck to his guns and so did Papa Smut when I reported the posts.

You're going to have to clarify what you mean here. Are you saying you showed me insults I made on that thread? If so, please post them up here for clarity.

While we're on the subject of insults, do you recognise these:

a mod who's not doing his job properly

Malice is useless.

you're a pretty poor person IMO

flinging insults just because you think someone is indecisive really isn't on. Malice thinks it is, since he seems to be the kind of person to do it himself.

So I'm useless, unable to do my job and a pretty poor person who thinks it's okay to fling insults around? Thanks for that.

Sandvich wrote:

I had also pointed out how I've had bad experience which has led me to become very nervous with these things, yet far from understanding that, I got treated amazingly poorly overall.

So I offered you a lift and use of my gear and another poster proposed a taxi share yet you still feel you were treated "amazingly poorly"?

Sandvich wrote:

Both Malice and Papa Smut made actual factual errors in their assertions

Again, please back up your accusation with evidence.

Sandvich wrote:

Malice claimed(by way of a patronising metaphor) I was trying to stop people from going through with the jam night

Where you say patronising I say appropriate. You wrote:

you have failed to recognise the fact that you would completely drive away the person who came up with the idea to begin with.

So you came up with the idea. That's fine. Now, considering you came up with the idea wouldn't you want to see it actually come to fruition? As I said on thread, be proactive about the whole thing. You can't make some weekend because of prior commitment? Fine, we'll choose a different weekend. You can't make it because of crap public transport? Fine, I'll give you a lift. You won't have a guitar with you? Fine, you can use one of mine. Do you see? You reminded me of the kid who brings a ball to play with other kids and then takes it away and goes home in a huff when he doesn't get his way.
As for actively trying to stop people going to the jam, sure you probably weren't setting out to explicitly do that but how do you think it looks to someone reading the thread when all they see is negativity about the location?

Sandvich wrote:

Papa Smut claimed I was wrong when he couldn't even get what the offending party, TheStickyBandit, said. He basically claimed he only called me a "cribber", which apparently isn't an insult, when he also said I was bitching, moaning, and called me a time waster.

Sandvich wrote:

It's one thing to get banned from posting in my own thread(seriously like), but another when the mods can lie about what was actually said on top of that.

I pointed this out to Papa Smut, and then he said he wasn't responding to any more of my PMs, and deflected me here, which is in my view quite childish. He replied once more anyway, but still couldn't admit to the factual error he made in his PM.

Well I can't speak for what Papa Smut wrote as I don't have access to his PMs. I will point out though that you've been told not to post in the thread any more because I doubt you're going to contribute anything worthwhile to it.

Sandvich wrote:

I can't get over how obviously ridiculous this looks yet the mods involved refuse to recognise it,

Trust me, I recognise that this looks ridiculous.

Sandvich wrote:

Malice himself going so far as to use the same line of insult as TheStickyBandit. I particularly dislike when people use words like "Moaning" because it just means they don't have to give a proper response, after all, it's just whining.

Sandvich wrote:

My basic point is that Malice shouldn't have sided with a guy calling me a crybaby and time waster

For the third time I didn't side with him over you. There are no sides as far as I'm concerned. We all wanted the same thing.

Sandvich wrote:

Papa Smut shouldn't have made a judgement when he didn't even know why I was so offended to begin with.

Well who would you have preferred make a judgement? Me? One of the admins?

Sandvich wrote:

When mods are riling people up instead of mediating, something's up. I don't like the idea I can't post in my own thread when I'm not the one who was out to cause trouble.

As I said earlier, you may not have set out to explicitly cause trouble but your continued presence on that thread at this point would be detrimental.

Sandvich

No prizes for guessing whose posts they are

Sorry, but none of those are even vaguely worth tearing into someone over.

It's a little off-topic but in the last few years I've had a hand in organising people to attend quite a few activities from various band practice sessions to book clubs, tag rugby team, indoor and outdoor soccer teams and of course drinking sessions . The key I find is to eliminate as many variables as possible as quickly as possible.

Well apparently I was a variable.

Obviously things need to be discussed but everyone needs to be proactive. There's no point in endlessly planning to do something. Just get it organised and get it done.

That's not an excuse to call someone a moaner and time waster while overreacting yourself, as theStickyBandit did.

Why have you written this again? As I told you on-thread: I said there was a lot of truth in what he wrote, not that he was 100% correct with what he wrote. There is a difference.

This is true, so I pressed you on whether or not you saw the issue with what he was saying, and you said he didn't.

Honestly, if you don't see the problem with that, you can count me out.

Fine.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68826704&postcount=83

Neither you nor Papa Smut saw the issue with this post. Please don't try to muddy the issue by claiming otherwise.

So I'm useless, unable to do my job and a pretty poor person who thinks it's okay to fling insults around? Thanks for that.

I fail to see how it isn't true. TSB's insults were quite blatant, you outright said you saw no issue with them and far from mediating the issue you made it worse. It was redundant of you to make the above statement when you did in fact have no problem with TSB's posts.

So I offered you a lift and use of my gear and another poster proposed a taxi share yet you still feel you were treated "amazingly poorly"?

That's not why I feel mistreated, and it's beyond jammy to try and claim it is.

Again, please back up your accusation with evidence.

I did. I said at least twice for people to organise it themselves, yet you claimed I was storming off home with the ball like a child.

For the third time I didn't side with him over you. There are no sides as far as I'm concerned. We all wanted the same thing.

Yes, you did. You used a "maturity" insult yourself so at the very least you were as bad. What's the point in saying you don't side with him, if you're of the same opinion and disposition? At best it's just a technicality. The point is you agreed with what he was saying when he was being abusive, saw no issue with his abusive tone, and replicated some of it yourself.

Now, considering you came up with the idea wouldn't you want to see it actually come to fruition?

That doesn't mean I want to go through with it if it means putting up with someone who calls me a child based on something that
wasn't even consistant with what I'm saying.

Also wanting to go through with something doesn't mean going through with something immediately. I didn't originally plan on it
happening so soon, obviously we had different views on exactly what was intended, but that's no excuse for theStickyBandit's comments or your
lack of reaction to them.

Well who would you have preferred make a judgement? Me? One of the admins?

Someone who doesn't think it's a valid response to call someone a moaner and leave it at that.

I'm also going to point out that I do not see anywhere in this post that you dealth with my main point here, the insult you leveled at me yourself. In fact you even ask for evidence on one point, to which that is evidence to.

Let's be clear about something. Just because you came up with the idea doesn't entitle you to anything. That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way. If anything I would have thought that you would be more proactive about getting it off the ground considering it was your idea.

While the insults itself isn't quite as severe, it's also a lie. I wasn't taking anything away from anyone, quite the opposite as I insisted they take control of it themselves if they weren't happy with me.

I never claimed to be good at organising anything, though I would say that being a mod requires a more rational conscience than organising a bit of indoor kick-a-ball does.

Malice

Sandvich wrote:

I pressed you on whether or not you saw the issue with what he was saying, and you said he didn't.

You're going to have to clarify this sentence. I said he didn't what?

Sandvich wrote:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68826704&postcount=83

Neither you nor Papa Smut saw the issue with this post. Please don't try to muddy the issue by claiming otherwise.

Why have you linked to that post?

Sandvich wrote:

I fail to see how it isn't true. TSB's insults were quite blatant, you outright said you saw no issue with them and far from mediating the issue you made it worse. It was redundant of you to make the above statement when you did in fact have no problem with TSB's posts.

So it's redundant of me to have a problem with you directly insulting me? I fail to see how I "made the issue worse".

Sandvich wrote:

I said at least twice for people to organise it themselves, yet you claimed I was storming off home with the ball like a child.

Yes I did because based on what you wrote you seemed to think you were entitled to something just because you happened to start the thread.

Sandvich wrote:

Yes, you did. You used a "maturity" insult yourself so at the very least you were as bad. What's the point in saying you don't side with him, if you're of the same opinion and disposition? At best it's just a technicality. The point is you agreed with what he was saying when he was being abusive, saw no issue with his abusive tone, and replicated some of it yourself.

To repeat myself again. There are no sides or at least there shouldn't be. There are a group of people looking to organise a jam. It's not the Cold War or something.

Sandvich wrote:

That doesn't mean I want to go through with it if it means putting up with someone who calls me a child based on something that
wasn't even consistant with what I'm saying.

You did read TheStickyBandit's post where he said wasn't going to come didn't you? In that case what was the problem with turning up?

Sandvich wrote:

Also wanting to go through with something doesn't mean going through with something immediately. I didn't originally plan on it
happening so soon, obviously we had different views on exactly what was intended, but that's no excuse for theStickyBandit's comments or your
lack of reaction to them.

It was never going to happen immediately, you know that. The thread appeared on Oct 18th and it's now November 8th so there have been a few weeks of discussion already. If you wanted to endlessly discuss it without actually doing anything then you could have saved people a lot of hassle by stating that in your first post then I for one would have happily had nothing to do with it.

Sandvich wrote:

Someone who doesn't think it's a valid response to call someone a moaner and leave it at that.

Answer the question - do you want an admin to look at this or not?

Sandvich wrote:

I'm also going to point out that I do not see anywhere in this post that you dealth with my main point here, the insult you leveled at me yourself. In fact you even ask for evidence on one point, to which that is evidence to.

It's not clear from your post but if you're referring to this:

Let's be clear about something. Just because you came up with the idea doesn't entitle you to anything. That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way. If anything I would have thought that you would be more proactive about getting it off the ground considering it was your idea.

then I stand behind what I wrote 100%. If you're referring to something else then please clearly link to it.

Sandvich wrote:

While the insults itself isn't quite as severe, it's also a lie. I wasn't taking anything away from anyone, quite the opposite as I insisted they take control of it themselves if they weren't happy with me.

Again I'm assuming you mean my quoted text. Where exactly is the lie? You aren't entitled to anything just because you started the thread and if I say something reminds me of something how can you possibly know if it's a lie? Can you see inside my head and read my thoughts?

Sandvich wrote:

I never claimed to be good at organising anything, though I would say that being a mod requires a more rational conscience than organising a bit of indoor kick-a-ball does.

How would you know what goes into organising a game of indoor soccer if you're no good at organising things yourself? There are plenty of parallels between organising a jam and organising a game of indoor soccer as you are well aware:

• Getting a group of people into a room.
• Organising that the people have suitable equipment.
• Sort out how people will pay.
• Organising transport to and from the room.

and that's just off the top of my head.

Sandvich

I'm just going to focus on this since it seems you (essentially) ignored it again;

then I stand behind what I wrote 100%.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

This is implying I was storming off trying to interfere with your ability to set up the night, when this didn't happen at all. I told ye to sort it out amongst yourselves(which you apparently couldn't for some reason) and left the thread. If I was a kid and I was getting called a timewaster and crybaby because I was telling people not to throw the ball into cow****, it'd probably be a more apt comparison, and I'd probably be upset then too.

Not to mention it's a completely twattish thing to say anyway. Fighting an argument with "Wahh you're immature" really isn't acceptable. If you can't see how this statement is going to be interpreted as insulting then you need to take some kind of course in mediation.

How would you know what goes into organising a game of indoor soccer if you're no good at organising things yourself? There are plenty of parallels between organising a jam and organising a game of indoor soccer as you are well aware:
Getting a group of people into a room.
Organising that the people have suitable equipment.
Sort out how people will pay.
Organising transport to and from the room.
and that's just off the top of my head.

And, it's only a few days until the jam was supposed to go ahead and nothing's done. Oops. Also, I made the comparison between moderating a forum and running soccer, and I stand by what I said. I don't think you're a good mod.

Maybe if TSB hadn't acted the eejit and you didn't join in with him, it wouldn't have been so bad? Crazy idea.

Malice

Sandvich wrote:

And, it's only a few days until the jam was supposed to go ahead and nothing's done.

Again how would you know anything about this? It's none of your business now what we do on that jam and considering you've washed your hands of it I'm surprised you're still interested. Or are you trying to take some sort of satisfaction from thinking that the whole thing has fallen apart?

Looking at the image at the top of this thread, I guess we're at the point where the CMod upholds the original decision. As a moderator of the Bands & Musicians forum and as a user directly involved in the thread in question I attempted to reach a compromise between everyone in the face of unwarranted general nastiness from you. It's my opinion that you've gone out of your way to take as much offence as possible from this whole situation. You know full well there was a lot of truth in what both I and TheStickyBandit wrote and the way you have consistently avoided answering certain questions suggests that you just want this to run and run. You didn't want to compromise on the original thread, by PM or on this thread.

As the Music CMod then, my decision is that you need to learn to deal with people better. If you don't, you're the one that's going to lose out, not just with the jam but in life itself.

Asiaprod

No response from OP, this thread has a limited life.

Malice

The OP has been online and posted in the last couple of days. How long do threads on here remain open if there is no response?

Sandvich

Malice_ wrote: »

Again how would you know anything about this? It's none of your business now what we do on that jam and considering you've washed your hands of it I'm surprised you're still interested. Or are you trying to take some sort of satisfaction from thinking that the whole thing has fallen apart?

I can read the thread you know. If you've taken it off board, then that's great. I don't think I'm wrong in pointing out, after being told I can't deal with people at all, that it's ironic that you haven't managed to do so well either.

Malice_ wrote: »

As the Music CMod then, my decision is that you need to learn to deal with people better.

Sorry, but I really don't think your opinion is worth much if you think it's alright to rip the piss out of people over nothing and then call them a child yourself. I think you're assigning too much worth to your own "Experience" if you can't see why calling someone a cry baby and timewaster would be counterproductive.

Saying "I know full well" is not a valid argument, and does not change the fact that the TheStickyBandit made inappropriate comments, as did yourself. As it happens, I don't agree. In a different thread I could have seen where you were coming from, but in that thread at the time it was not appropriate. There was no guarantee of any kind of time frame to begin with. And even then, it still wouldn't excuse the remarks made.

You have no right to talk about not me not dealing with points when I have repeatedly pointed out that you accuse me of "taking the ball home" when it is factually untrue. I don't see why I should bother going into more detail than my last post until you can scrape together the honesty to deal with that.

I would like to point out that I recognise your attitude on professionalism is not uncommon. I would also like to point out that many of the famous "Rock Star Divas" like Billy Corgan make the same kind of "Impatient" remarks in the name of professionalism, and it often hurts more than helps. This is one reason why with my previous posts on the forum I was trying to specifically find a "goth rock/post punk" band even though I wouldn't mind being in a general rock band - I wanted to avoid this kind of attitude. I don't want to deal with tough guys.

Musicians can be jerks. What I really can't abide though is people being dishonest about what I said, I had a recent negative experience with (another) guitarist where they couldn't admit to misrepresenting what I said, so I don't have time for this.

Malice_ wrote: »

The OP has been online and posted in the last couple of days. How long do threads on here remain open if there is no response?

I've been busy, I can't post on every forum at once when I'm under pressure and have a lot to do(which I mentioned in that thread). I note how you jump at the chance to get this locked though.

Malice

Sandvich wrote: »

I can read the thread you know. If you've taken it off board, then that's great. I don't think I'm wrong in pointing out, after being told I can't deal with people at all, that it's ironic that you haven't managed to do so well either.

Here you go again getting a sly insult into your post. As I said previously, you appear to be taking quite an interest in something which you've previously made clear you want no part of. I'm quite satisfied that I've managed to organise a meet up for a few people. Clearly the group of us that are meeting up didn't want to spend weeks discussing it.

Sandvich wrote:

You have no right to talk about not me not dealing with points

Why do you bring up rights so much? Why wouldn't I have the right to ask you questions and, in doing so expect an answer?

Sandvich wrote:

I've been busy, I can't post on every forum at once when I'm under pressure and have a lot to do(which I mentioned in that thread). I note how you jump at the chance to get this locked though.

Here we go again with you doing your utmost to take offence at a question that wasn't aimed at you and hasn't actually resulted in the thread being locked. Now you're starting to remind me of Mary Whitehouse watching a Peter North movie over and over again to get more and more offended. Thanks to Paul Tomkins for that .

Now, as fun as it is to read your rambling posts, I for one have better things to do than go around in circles on this thread. How about you answer the question you've been asked twice already:

Answer the question - do you want an admin to look at this or not?

Well who would you have preferred make a judgement? Me? One of the admins?

Sandvich

Malice_ wrote: »

Here you go again getting a sly insult into your post. As I said previously, you appear to be taking quite an interest in something which you've previously made clear you want no part of. I'm quite satisfied that I've managed to organise a meet up for a few people. Clearly the group of us that are meeting up didn't want to spend weeks discussing it.

Sly insults? Why is it okay when you do this? Via PM too you also accused me of being malicious and mean spirited, whereas this was my criticism of TSB's posts. Really?

Why do you bring up rights so much? Why wouldn't I have the right to ask you questions and, in doing so expect an answer?

Sorry, I'm presuming you care about contradicting yourself and pushing the whole idea that things should be fair and stuff. I should knock that off.

Now, as fun as it is to read your rambling posts, I for one have better things to do than go around in circles on this thread. How about you answer the question you've been asked twice already:

I notice how you still don't deal with your accusation, for about the 13th time.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

This isn't true, as this wasn't what I was saying at all, I didn't "take the ball away," didn't interfere with other people's ability to set up the night.

It must take an amazing amount of arrogance to do that. Honestly, I'd rather you just admit to that than an admin looking into it.

If the thread is dead in the water I'm no longer sure about pushing admin action since I wasn't banned from anything and I don't know if it'll go anywhere. But I want you to at least admit that much, as I'm sick of people making outright lies and contradictions and not giving a ****, or even having the gall to call others mean spirited while doing so. It doesn't seem to me you're capable of this, I'm sure you'll pass that buck back to me but you haven't managed to produce such a blatant contradiction in my posts as you have in yours(The one you keep ignoring).

Malice

Sandvich wrote: »

Sly insults? Why is it okay when you do this? Via PM too you also accused me of being malicious and mean spirited

Just in case you miss this: Please go ahead and post the private message that I sent you calling you "malicious and mean spirited".

Sandvich wrote:

whereas this was my criticism of TSB's posts.

The rambling nature of your posts meant that more than once I had to ask you to clarify something and at least once you failed to do so. If I've mis-understood something you've written then maybe you could write a bit clearer in future?

Sandvich wrote:

Sorry, I'm presuming you care about contradicting yourself and pushing the whole idea that things should be fair and stuff. I should knock that off.

I contradicted myself? Okay then whatever you say.

Sandvich wrote:

I notice how you still don't deal with your accusation, for about the 13th time.

So we'll add an inability to read and an inability count to your list of issues will we? As I wrote on this post I stand by what I wrote so how exactly is that "not dealing with it"?

Sandvich wrote:

If the thread is dead in the water I'm no longer sure about pushing admin action since I wasn't banned from anything and I don't know if it'll go anywhere.

Why don't you want admin action? Surely you'd welcome an impartial observer who might put me in my place and prove all of your accusations? Honestly if I'm as horrible a person as you make out it should be an open and shut case shouldn't it?

Sandvich

[Just in case you miss this: Please go ahead and post the private message that I sent you calling you "malicious and mean spirited".

All of the snidey name-calling and general nastiness is just going to roll right off my back.

Ahem. The wording isn't exactly the same since I wasn't quoting you directly, but it's the same thing.

So we'll add an inability to read and an inability count to your list of issues will we? As I wrote on this post I stand by what I wrote so how exactly is that "not dealing with it"?

You standing by what you wrote just means you lied about something and are continuing to perpetuate that lie in the face of not being able to provide any evidence to support it.

You claimed I was trying to obstruct the rest of the party's ability to set up the night. You lied, you can't admit it, and this is yet another fobbing off.

How is this "dealing with people better"? Personally I've found not being a lying jackass does tend to do wonders from time to time.

You are some twisted person if you think "standing by what you wrote" is a valid response to a very valid accusation of misrepresenting someone's posts. What I'm saying is, please don't give me social lessons when you can't even manage to be honest.

Also what I DID notice in that post:

involved in the thread in question I attempted to reach a compromise between everyone in the face of unwarranted general nastiness from you.

Did you ****. You went out of your way to make an insulting remark(the one you KEEP IGNORING) yourself.

Not once have I seen you directly quote it. Perhaps I need to paste it multiple times for it to register with you?

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

That kind of statement reminds me of a child who takes their ball and goes home when they don't get their way.

This is an uncalled for remark, you claim to be reaching some kind of peace yet make EXACTLY the kind of remark that TheStickyBandit made to begin with. Given I quoted and elaborated on what TSB said that offended me, you should have known better. Neither you nor Papa Smut saw a problem with this attitude. Which is ridiculous.

And, again, the implication of this is a lie. You're saying I fecked off with the jam night when I didn't get my way. I did not do this. I also can't imagine a remark more "snidey" than this.

I believe you are going out of your way to be frustrating in the hope it'll help your case(i.e. trolling), which is why I'm reluctant to push for admin action as of yet. You have not dealth with the inherent dishonesty in this statement, and saying you "stand by it" when "it" is a snide remark and general insult does not speak wonders for your character.

Why don't you want admin action? Surely you'd welcome an impartial observer who might put me in my place and prove all of your accusations? Honestly if I'm as horrible a person as you make out it should be an open and shut case shouldn't it?

I think it should be obvious that you presenting it like this makes it look suspicious in of itself. The fact that Papa smut also agreed with the wrong conclusion to an "open and shut case" is worrying to me already. Mods should not make posts "agreeing" with a member calling another member a time waster and crybaby, echoing similar sentiment themselves. End of.

If the Admin takes note of the contradiction I'm pointing out, that's another story. If one sounds in to recognise the fault in the statement I've repeatedly quoted, then I at least know it's not going to be a waste of time that's going to land me in more trouble than you by default. I've seen boards mods get away with a lot.

There really isn't need for admin action, all it requires is for you to admit you made an insulting and untrue statement. But you can't even manage this, apparently. I believe the problem here is that you don't see any problem with acting the same way Thestickybandit was, as you are the same kind of person that makes the same kind of statements, which has a plethora of wonderful words to describe it.

I just hope you don't turn up at the UCC thing at the same time I do, as I feel physically uncomfortable around people such as yourself.

Sandvich

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088185

Looking at this thread, it seems abusive boards mods are nothing new. I'll be watching this thread to see how it goes.

Malice

So name-calling and general nastiness of which I have numerous examples of proof is the same as calling you "malicious and mean spirited"? Good man yourself. How about you come back to reality? In fact, better yet don't - just continue to catch yourself out.

And now I'm a "lying jackass" and "twisted"? This gets better and better. I bet your next post will have something comparing me to Hitler and possible torturing and killing puppies.

Sandvich wrote:

You standing by what you wrote just means you lied about something and are continuing to perpetuate that lie in the face of not being able to provide any evidence to support it.

How is what I wrote a lie? Seriously, just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it a fact.

Sandvich wrote:

You claimed I was trying to obstruct the rest of the party's ability to set up the night. You lied, you can't admit it, and this is yet another fobbing off.

You might not have been doing it deliberately but you certainly weren't being helpful giving out about amp quality and the fact that the studio is on a hill. You know that as well as I do. That's not a lie , it's there in the thread.

Sandvich wrote:

Personally I've found not being a lying jackass does tend to do wonders from time to time.

Here we go again with the name calling. Nice!

Sandvich wrote:

You are some twisted person if you think "standing by what you wrote" is a valid response to a very valid accusation of misrepresenting someone's posts.

Oh and another insult. Standing by what I wrote is a valid response per the dispute resolution procedure. Is this another example of you being unable to read?

Sandvich wrote:

What I'm saying is, please don't give me social lessons when you can't even manage to be honest.

So now the guy with Aspergers and social anxiety who's no good at organising anything (in his own words) is telling me I can't manage what exactly?

Sandvich wrote:

Did you ****. You went out of your way to make an insulting remark(the one you KEEP IGNORING) yourself.

You honestly don't think I tried to reach a compromise? Wow, I must have imagined those posts that I offered you use of my gear and a lift. Oh no, wait here they are.
Or maybe I'm imagining the post where I wanted both you and TheStickyBandit to come along to the jam anyway to get away from the keyboard warrior rubbish? Oh no wait, here it is. Gosh, considering we are all strangers on that thread how much more would you have liked me to do?

Sandvich wrote:

Not once have I seen you directly quote it.

Why do I need to quote it? I referred to it here and here. Do you want me to put it in my signature or my avatar title or what?

Sandvich wrote:

Neither you nor Papa Smut saw a problem with this attitude. Which is ridiculous.

So if Papa Smut and I are wrong why don't you request an admin to look at this thread?

Sandvich wrote:

You're saying I fecked off with the jam night when I didn't get my way. I did not do this. I also can't imagine a remark more "snidey" than this.

We really are going around in circles with this aren't we? For at least the third time, you probably didn't set out to explicitly screw things up but how do you think the thread reads with all the bickering? And what was the catalyst for that bickering? Why, I think you'll find it was someone complaining about the location of the rehearsal studio. Who could that be I wonder?

Sandvich wrote:

I believe you are going out of your way to be frustrating in the hope it'll help your case(i.e. trolling), which is why I'm reluctant to push for admin action as of yet.

So now I'm trolling? Wow. Surely if I was trolling you'd be more inclined to request an admin?

Sandvich wrote:

You have not dealth with the inherent dishonesty in this statement, and saying you "stand by it" when "it" is a snide remark and general insult does not speak wonders for your character.

Inherent dishonesty? How can me thinking something be dishonest let alone inherently dishonest?

Sandvich wrote:

I think it should be obvious that you presenting it like this makes it look suspicious in of itself. The fact that Papa smut also agreed with the wrong conclusion to an "open and shut case" is worrying to me already. Mods should not make posts "agreeing" with a member calling another member a time waster and crybaby, echoing similar sentiment themselves. End of.

Sorry to break it to you but I frequent the Bands & Musicians forum in three roles which usually don't overlap. I'm on there as a user looking for suitable bands to join. I'm on there as a moderator to, you know, moderate the forum and I'm also the category moderator for the Music section. You're telling me I can't do that any more? Also you can play the "admins siding with mods" card if you want but, like I keep saying, if I was as terrible as you make out surely they wouldn't be able to ignore all your irrefutable evidence?

Sandvich wrote:

If one sounds in to recognise the fault in the statement I've repeatedly quoted, then I at least know it's not going to be a waste of time that's going to land me in more trouble than you by default.

What makes you think I'm in trouble? Is that some sort of threat?

Sandvich wrote:

I've seen boards mods get away with a lot.

I've seen Boards users get away with a lot too.

Sandvich wrote:

There really isn't need for admin action

I believe there is otherwise it'll just be us going around in circles.

Sandvich wrote:

all it requires is for you to admit you made an insulting and untrue statement.

How about you retract all the unfounded insults and blatant lies you've directed my way?

Sandvich wrote:

I just hope you don't turn up at the UCC thing at the same time I do, as I feel physically uncomfortable around people such as yourself.

How can you feel physically uncomfortable around me? You've never even met me. I hope I do turn up at the same time as you. I'd love to see what you're like in person. I'd offer to buy you a pint but I'd be afraid you'd find some way to get offended at that too. Possibly because the pub is on a hill or it doesn't have top-quality bar stools.

Now, we're 15 posts into this thread. I've caught you out blatantly lying at the start of this post (as I knew I would) and you are continuing to post insults and now it seems you've started to post vague threats. Are we actually going to reach a conclusion with this any time soon?

Sandvich

I'm just going to cut to the chase -

How is what I wrote a lie? Seriously, just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it a fact.

Please provide evidence that's what I did, or you're full of crap.

Also, it's still a stupid remark to say when you're "Keeping the peace". I don't see you deal with this in your post at all.

I've caught you out blatantly lying at the start of this post (as I knew I would)

No, you haven't. And you're only saying this since you are a liar yourself, know this is my issue with you, and are trying to rile me up. It is no coincidence you made this remark after I pushed the "liar" statement.

We really are going around in circles with this aren't we? For at least the third time, you probably didn't set out to explicitly screw things up but how do you think the thread reads with all the bickering? And what was the catalyst for that bickering? Why, I think you'll find it was someone complaining about the location of the rehearsal studio. Who could that be I wonder?

TBS's post was out of nowhere and I was not the only person who recognised it as such at the time. Where was this "bickering" exactly?

Again, you seem to interpret cautiousness or at worst indecision as a reason to call someone a crybaby.

There was no time scale presented for this project.

If you seriously think that having issue with a studio is a reason to insult someone, then maybe I should pass it on to an admin as surely even they would realise how stupid that is. I don't think this will be resolved otherwise since you have such a warped sense of appropriate response. You're using horrendous wife beater logic. Just because TheStickyBandit was responding to my posts does not mean my posts were to blame for his reaction. There's all kinds of logic being thrown out the window here.

There was no fallout in that thread whatsoever until he made that post, yet you failed to recognise this as a mod.

Statements like this:

It might not be the most suitable place though. It is out of town up a hill, and the gear isn't necessarily the best.

Are not a reason to attack someone, even if you find them annoying.

So name-calling and general nastiness of which I have numerous examples of proof is the same as calling you "malicious and mean spirited"? Good man yourself. How about you come back to reality? In fact, better yet don't - just continue to catch yourself out.

I would imagine accusing someone of general nastiness would be much the same thing as accusing them of malicious and means spirited. And you've made several comments to the same effect since. Do you want me to pick them out for you? I fail to see the major divide here. I should have paraphrased your PM exactly from the start. But it's not lying or anything like it. Certainly not on the scale you're doing.

Why is it okay for you lie to about what I was saying, but you take so much issue when I supposedly do the same? I think your attempt to make a point is backfiring.

Even in this thread, you complain about me using personal insults when you had no problem with TheStickyBandit doing so, not to mention how your posts are becoming almost unreadable due to the sheer volumes on snark in them. You came off bad enough in the start.

TheStickyBandit made some stupid remark, you agreed with his posts, I pointed out my problem with that, you made a similar remark yourself, and said I was taking the band night away from people when I wasn't. Very little in your posts actually deals with what happened and is just further patronising nonsense.

This is as you say, an open and shut case. The problem is it is revolving around someone who can't admit being a jackass is not a good way to keep the peace as a mod.

And yes, I'm aware my tone doesn't look stellar either. But it has been a long time since I've gotten into an argument with such a thoroughly frustrating and aggravating human being. You are not exactly making this easy and are going to every measure to aggravate me, then complaining when you think my posts are hard on you.

This is why I don't want to get an admin involved yet - I have no guarantee they are going to go for substance over style, and look at who is actually causing the trouble. I did nothing in that thread deserving of those remarks. Unless I have some assurance from an admin there is an actual possibility you will have to correct your statement, I'm not sure what to do. I only posted this here in the first place because I was told to.

How can you feel physically uncomfortable around me? You've never even met me. I hope I do turn up at the same time as you. I'd love to see what you're like in person. I'd offer to buy you a pint but I'd be afraid you'd find some way to get offended at that too. Possibly because the pub is on a hill or it doesn't have top-quality bar stools.

If I knew it was you, I would have no problem refusing that pint and telling you I do not like to associate with people such as yourself. I do actually make an effort, unlike people such as TheStickyBandit who you "agree" with, to get on with people and be civil up to a point. Moreover, I would like to see him or you make the same sort of remarks in person, as it may give you some context to see how ridiculous they are.

I'm not claiming to be a supreme judge of character, a lot of people's real character is hard to get at, but I could never knowingly associate with someone who talks down to me in the way you do, lies about what I'm saying and accuses me of being a spoiled child.

The fact that it could happen just makes it all the more ridiculous. You can have a go at me for not letting it go, but you should not have made that remark to begin with, nor should TSB. TSB should not have made such remarks against someone he may have ended up socialising with in real life, and far from acknowledging his mistake you make the same one yourself.

You have created a situation where there needs to be a personal resolution rather than an administrative one to avoid future conflict, which is why I'm "looking for an argument" or however it was you put it. Since I didn't do anything deserving of those remarks, I have nothing to apologise for, at least up until that point. You have not provided me with sufficient reason to believe I was deserving of TSB's insults.

You're also using my own social difficulties against me, which is extremely low. Just because I have issues doesn't mean I have no experience or knowledge of when someone is wrong. Even so, I have people who normally correct me if I have overstepped the line, and so far the only person I've told this story to who took your side was a bit of a looper.

Asiaprod

Sandvich wrote: »

You're also using my own social difficulties against me, which is extremely low. Just because I have issues doesn't mean I have no experience or knowledge of when someone is wrong. Even so, I have people who normally correct me if I have overstepped the line, and so far the only person I've told this story to who took your side was a bit of a looper.

Thats it, enough.
I left this thread run in the hopes that you would see sense. That did not happen.
Once again with your we end up back at "it's everyone else's fault, not mine." This is very much your fault. You went all supersensitive, you are seeing things that are not written. And again you are playing your social anxieties issue card.

For example, in your own words:

He acted both oversensitively and insensitively and if you're going to laud him as being right without recognising where he was wrong then I have no interest in this. He blew up out of nowhere("whining and moaning" is no excuse) I've had enough of people being celebrated for acting like pricks.

I feel the same way about how you have acted here.

Him sharing your lack of taste for apparent indecisiveness is no excuse. I'm not the most experienced perhaps, but I know this sort of bull**** causes a lot more trouble than being indecisive.

Sort it out amongst yerselves.

That in my language is "taking my ball home"


Now we have come to the stage where your entire effort here seems to be aimed at attacking the Cmod. Did you read the T&C for this forum?

Posting abusive comments about a moderator you have issue with will result in further action being taken – this could be an escalation of Infraction to ban or a ban to a category ban - this is at the discression of the CMod(s). Your appeal will be closed and no further appeals on the matter will be entertained. We will not allow people to abuse moderators (or indeed any other members) in this forum.

You have twice been asked do you want Admin intervention. You did not request it, you just continued on soap boxing your own cause. This forum is for thread resolution, you are not looking for resolution apparently. You have your own agenda. Fine. I am now going to site ban you and we can deal with this agenda in Prison where it truely belongs.

This is not a DTR thread, it is closed.