Driving in rainy dark days with no lights

Builderfromhell

Have been meaning to ask this question for some time.
Drove through city today dropping kids off at school. Heavy drizzle, a little dark and windscreen slighly fogged up as heater hasn't had any effect yet.
CAn see cars with full lights easily from a distance, can also see cars with parking lights.
But when cutting across junctions I have to roll down both side windows to see cars with no lights and cyclists dressed in dark clothes with no lights.

The question then is ;
WHY DON'T DRIVERS PUT THEIR LIGHTS ON DURING THE DAY?

cynder

Because they dont give a ****.

Drives me mad...... the ones who dont turn on lights in fog and snow drive me mad too, probably the same ones.

Cookie_Monster

Builderfromhell wrote: »

WHY DON'T DRIVERS PUT THEIR LIGHTS ON DURING THE DAY?

because there is no requirement.

It's sensible but not legally binding

Anan1

Andther question is why do you drive with misted up windows?

who the fug

Anan1 wrote: »

Andther question is why do you drive with misted up windows?

Is that not a driving offense as you have no clear view

cedan

Another question would be, are you posting on boards while driving!

daveyboy_1ie

Drove on the M50 yesterday at 5-ish through heavy rain and the car behind me had one freaking fog light light on only, had to keep on checking they were there as they were very close the entire journey home. In times like that I just wonder how he/ she thought this was ok to do. especially with the weather we have had this week at home time.

Atomic Pineapple

Simple reason for this is lack of driver education and re-education.

Builderfromhell

Anan1 wrote: »

Andther question is why do you drive with misted up windows?

I was expecting someone to pick up on that. I am well aware that it is illegal to drive without 'due care and attention' and having fogged up windows would come under that category.
However, there are people out there with dodgy wipers, broken heaters etc. who might rush off in the morning before windscreens are clear.
People driving without lights or indeed cyclists dressed darkly with no lights need to know that they are not easily seen.

corktina

in bad weather dipped headlights are essential. In daylight in clear weather they are not whatever gaybo might say...and I notice a LOT of people listening to him and putting on their lights BUT ALSO putting on their front fogs too...arghhhhh!

Anan1

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I was expecting someone to pick up on that. I am well aware that it is illegal to drive without 'due care and attention' and having fogged up windows would come under that category.
However, there are people out there with dodgy wipers, broken heaters etc. who might rush off in the morning before windscreens are clear.

It's not just illegal, it's extremely dangerous. Why were you driving with misted-up glass?

Voodoomelon

Glad to see there are finally ads on the radio about driving with your low beams on during the day.

EDIT: Ha ha, its on right now.

cedan

Is there any reason why people shouldn't leave their headlights on dipped beams constantly?

Even in summer i leave them on. Good habit to be in I think anyway.

Waterford26

What the gards doing??? Why they dont care about this?.. They should stop the idiots and explain them why its better to be seen. Ireland need a better law for this anyway. Example.. In many countries abroad is illegal to use the fog lamps as a 'spot' lights ..they can be use only when passing the fog. Drivers there are also required to drive with low beam or with installed 'daylight'.. and its much much better and safer!

Savman

Because 'a person is smart but people are dumb'.
Motoring is the finest example of this.

limklad

Savman wrote: »

Because 'a person is smart but people are dumb'.
Motoring is the finest example of this.

I have to agree with this comment.
First It is best to get people driving in towns and villages in lit up areas who have no lights in the wet dark evening and at night time to turn on their lights!!

_Kaiser_

This really is something that irks me (along with tailgaters and people who can't indicate!)

On a day like this with grey skies, heavy rain and surface water, I lost count of the amount of idiots I came across in silver cars (that become almost invisible in these conditions) driving around without any lights on - particularly bad when they're dawdling on the motorway and you find yourself almost on top of them if you're not careful!

The RSA/DoT should stop making ridiculous ads that don't work and bring in a requirement (through whatever mechanism necessary) to require ALL cars - not just the newer ones - from say January 1st 2011 to have permanent DRLs wired.

I'd imagine it'd be a fairly easy job to do for any mechanic, and it would probably create a bit of employment too as well as making a REAL change to road safety.

-Corkie-

Actually I am after having 2 close calls with new Audi A4`s. They have those yokes on the front which are on but they havent a stitch of a taillight. I nearly ran up the arse of one the other morning because it was dark and very foggy.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

It's not just illegal, it's extremely dangerous. Why were you driving with misted-up glass?

It's easy to say if you are driving brand new car with air-conditioner and demisting your window is the case of pushing one button and waiting for a half a minute.

But there are lots of vehicles on the road which doesn't work that good.
Demister work, but are not always so effective.

For example I work as a driver, and a vehicle I'm driving has always had problem with properly demisting windows. In heavy rain I have to use a towel to see through the windows. My right mirror gets a bit dodgy as well, when rain covers it's surface, I barely can see anything in it.
When there's a car overtaking me in bad weather without lights, sometimes I can see it only in the last moment.

What can I do?

biko

It's because they can still see without putting their lights on.
People won't remember to put lights on to be seen, only to see.
The sooner we get DRL the better imo.

Voodoomelon

My angel eyes come on with the ignition and I flick on the parking lights which gives me full tail lights. Its just part of the routine, ignition, seatbelt, parking lights.

Good habit to get into is right.

_Kaiser_

-Corkie- wrote: »

Actually I am after having 2 close calls with new Audi A4`s. They have those yokes on the front which are on but they havent a stitch of a taillight. I nearly ran up the arse of one the other morning because it was dark and very foggy.

I've noticed that myself actually.. DRL's on the front but nothing on the rear? What genius thought that was a good idea?

Unless the LED strips ARE purely for cosmetic purposes?

CiniO

Voodoomelon wrote: »

My angel eyes come on with the ignition and I flick on the parking lights which gives me full tail lights. Its just part of the routine, ignition, seatbelt, parking lights.

Good habit to get into is right.

What are angel eyes? Are they DRL?
Besides, why do you turn parking lights on?

I find it, that if weather is good DRL are definitely enough, and you don't need rear lights, number plate lights, dashboards lights....
If weather gets as bad, that turning you tail lights becomes reasonable, I think it's also reasonable to turn on dipped headlights as well.

PS. A you said - they are parking lights.
In most European countries, driving with parking lights (side front lights + tail lights) in not legal.

Voodoomelon

Yes they're DRLs. Driving with parking lights on is not illegal in this country, i'm not sure why it would be. My parking lights illuminate the taillights and two small bulbs in the headlamps, you can't even see the front lights as the DRLs overpower them many times over.

Waterford26

CiniO wrote: »

It's easy to say if you are driving brand new car with air-conditioner and demisting your window is the case of pushing one button and waiting for a half a minute.

But there are lots of vehicles on the road which doesn't work that good.
Demister work, but are not always so effective.

For example I work as a driver, and a vehicle I'm driving has always had problem with properly demisting windows. In heavy rain I have to use a towel to see through the windows. My right mirror gets a bit dodgy as well, when rain covers it's surface, I barely can see anything in it.
When there's a car overtaking me in bad weather without lights, sometimes I can see it only in the last moment.

What can I do?

Try to replace the cabin filter first and use the outside circuit on heating

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

It's easy to say if you are driving brand new car with air-conditioner and demisting your window is the case of pushing one button and waiting for a half a minute.

But there are lots of vehicles on the road which doesn't work that good.
Demister work, but are not always so effective.

For example I work as a driver, and a vehicle I'm driving has always had problem with properly demisting windows. In heavy rain I have to use a towel to see through the windows. My right mirror gets a bit dodgy as well, when rain covers it's surface, I barely can see anything in it.
When there's a car overtaking me in bad weather without lights, sometimes I can see it only in the last moment.

What can I do?

Honestly, if you can't see out then you've no business driving. I do see where you're coming from (i've driven cars like that myself), but it's just too dangerous. How would you feel if you killed a cyclist or a pedestrian in the rain?

benj

The question then is ;
WHY DON'T DRIVERS PUT THEIR LIGHTS ON DURING THE DAY?


The same reason the idiots don't put on indicators,
The same reason the idiots overtake on hills,
The same reason the idiots cut you off at a roundabout
The same reason the idiots dont let u out in slow traffic,
The same reason the idiots drink and drive,

THEY ARE FCKN A**HOLES!

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

Honestly, if you can't see out then you've no business driving. I do see where you're coming from (i've driven cars like that myself), but it's just too dangerous. How would you feel if you killed a cyclist or a pedestrian in the rain?

I support what you are saying 100%.
As the old French saying: "visibility means life"

Heh I intentionally didn't write what kind of vehicle was it.
It's a 20 years old 50 seater coach. And believe me - when it was brand new demister in was was the same ****e as now. It's just a way that vehicle is built.
Only thing is - there can't really be anything done about it, except from exchanging it for brand new coach, which obviously cant be the case here, as my employer can't afford it.
I do all I can to see all around - plenty of towels around me, opening the windows to clear mirror, etc. I can see a lot, but just to mention - I would see much more if the cars were using their lights.

Waterford26 wrote: »

Try to replace the cabin filter first and use the outside circuit on heating

Hahaha. There's no such thing as cabin filter or outside circuit.

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

I support what you are saying 100%.
As the old French saying: "visibility means life"

Heh I intentionally didn't write what kind of vehicle was it.
It's a 20 years old 50 seater coach. And believe me - when it was brand new demister in was was the same ****e as now. It's just a way that vehicle is built.
Only thing is - there can't really be anything done about it, except from exchanging it for brand new coach, which obviously cant be the case here, as my employer can't afford it.
I do all I can to see all around - plenty of towels around me, opening the windows to clear mirror, etc. I can see a lot, but just to mention - I would see much more if the cars were using their lights.

I'm not for an instant making excuses for people not using their lights in bad weather - of course they should. But driving a vehicle one can't see out of is at least as dangerous as driving in bad weather without lights. The OP basically wanted other road users to compensate for their own obscured windows!

johnos1984

For anyone with de-misting problems change your air filters, clean the inside of windscreen properly and if your mirrors are affected by drops of rain place rainx on them and your side windows

Problem sorted.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm not for an instant making excuses for people not using their lights in bad weather - of course they should. But driving a vehicle one can't see out of is at least as dangerous as driving in bad weather without lights. The OP basically wanted other road users to compensate for their own obscured windows!

Yes. But lights can be turned on by everyone very easily.

Misted windows sometimes can be cleared very easily, sometimes with little bit of effort or losts of effort, sometimes not at all...
That's the reality.

Did you ever drive in a snow storm and were you able to keep all your windows clear and have perfect vision through them?

CiniO

johnos1984 wrote: »

For anyone with de-misting problems change your air filters, clean the inside of windscreen properly and if your mirrors are affected by drops of rain place rainx on them and your side windows

Problem sorted.

I think you meant "cabin filter" not "air filter".

What is rainx?

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

Yes. But lights can be turned on by everyone very easily.

Misted windows sometimes can be cleared very easily, sometimes with little bit of effort or losts of effort, sometimes not at all...
That's the reality.

Did you ever drive in a snow storm and were you able to keep all your windows clear and have perfect vision through them?

I've owned my fair share of leaky & poorly-ventilated cars over the years, I know exactly what you're talking about. The reality is that how easy/hard it is to clear the windows makes not a jot of difference to the person who gets hit.

johnos1984

CiniO wrote: »

I think you meant "cabin filter" not "air filter".

What is rainx?

Apologies wasn't thinking. I removed it from the Corolla altogether and it is much much better. screen is clear in about 30 seconds.

Rainx is available in all motor factors and the like



Great stuff for side windows, mirrors and the back window of saloon cars.

zilog_jones

cedan wrote: »

Is there any reason why people shouldn't leave their headlights on dipped beams constantly?

Typical halogen dipped beam lights are 55 Watts each (plus tail lights, dashboard lights, side markers if you have them, etc.), that has a significant affect on fuel consumption. Modern LED DRLs can use as little as 6-8W. This is the only reason I'm reluctant to use dipped beams constantly. On my next car I will seriously consider fitting DRLs.

Another big concern for me about suggestions to use dipped beams at all times is that there are a shocking amount of people with badly fitted bulbs or completely misaligned headlamps - it's bad enough being blinded by these people in the dark, never mind all day. I cannot comprehend how these people do not notice their dipped beams are pointing upwards, or bouncing all over the place! :mad:

CiniO

zilog_jones wrote: »

Typical halogen dipped beam lights are 55 Watts each (plus tail lights, dashboard lights, side markers if you have them, etc.), that has a significant affect on fuel consumption. Modern LED DRLs can use as little as 6-8W. This is the only reason I'm reluctant to use dipped beams constantly. On my next car I will seriously consider fitting DRLs.

Affect on fuel consumption is negligible.
Read another thread here, where there was a poll about using an air conditioning, and a lot of people said, they don't really think about it, and leave it on even when it's not needed.
Believe me, that A/C impact on fuel consumption is way bigger then headlights impact.
Obviously DRL are better. If someone want then - why not fitting them.

Another big concern for me about suggestions to use dipped beams at all times is that there are a shocking amount of people with badly fitted bulbs or completely misaligned headlamps - it's bad enough being blinded by these people in the dark, never mind all day. I cannot comprehend how these people do not notice their dipped beams are pointing upwards, or bouncing all over the place! :mad:

I don't think there is such big amount of drivers with badly adjusted headlights.
It's just a small percentage what I can see.
NCT makes people to adjust their headlights properly every 2 years, and in most cases that's enough.
The problem here, might be that probably most drivers don't know that they have to adjust headlights according to the weight they carry in the car. That if they fit 5 passengers with lots of luggage in the boot, they definitely need to put headlight lower with the adjustement knob. Barely anyone does it. That might be the problem.

CiniO

Actually I got a quick look on road traffic regulations about vehicle lighting.

Here's the link to SI
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0189.html#zzsi189y1963a20

So in short words if someone is not familiar with these regulations.

1. They except us to put on front side lights, rear tail lights, number plates lights, etc. during lighting up hours.

20. (1) (a) Where a vehicle to which this Part of these Regulations applies is used in a public place during lighting up hours, any of the following lamps and lighting with which the vehicle is required to be equipped in pursuance of article 9 of these Regulations shall, at all times while the vehicle is so used, be shown duly lit, that is to say:—the side lamps, rear lamps, rear projecting load lamp, lateral projecting load lamp, marker lamp and identification mark lighting.

To clarify.
This regulations apply pretty much to all mechanically propelled vehicles (if someone was wondering)

8. This Part of these Regulations shall apply to mechanically propelled vehicles, other than cycles and invalid carriages, and to trailers, and to combinations of such vehicles.
Obligatory lighting.

9. (1) (a) Every vehicle, other than a trailer, to which this Part of these Regulations applies shall at all times while used in a public place be equipped with side lamps, head lamps, rear lamps, stop lamps, and identification mark lighting, all of which shall comply in all respects with this Part of these Regulations.

And lighting up hours are from half an hour after sunset, to half an hour before sunrise.

"lighting-up hours" means the period commencing one half-hour after sunset on any day and expiring one half-hour before sunrise on the next day;

So pretty much everyone is obliged to put on side lights (usually one click with your lights knob) half an hour after sunset and use them until half an hour before sunrise.


2. In addition to above, we have to turn on headlights (usually two turns on the knob) except from beggining and end of period of lighting up hours - provided visibility is adequate, or while the vehicle is stopped in course of traffic, or in build up areas where the speed limit is 50km/h (or less) and public lighting is adequate.

(b) (i) Where a vehicle to which this Part of these Regulations applies is being driven in a public place during lighting-up hours, the head lamps with which the vehicle is required to be equipped under these Regulations shall be shown duly lit.


(ii) Sub-paragraph (i) of this paragraph shall not apply—


(I) For a reasonable period after the commencement or before the ending of lighting-up hours, provided visibility is adequate,


(II) while the vehicle is stopped in the course of traffic, or


(III) while the vehicle is being driven in conditions of good visibility on a road to which a speed limit under section 45 or section 46 of the Act applies and which is provided with a continuous system of public lighting affording illumination equivalent at least to that afforded by dipped head lamps.

My comment here - now I understand why so many people drive only on side lights even it's almost completely dark. I understand as well, why some people drive only with side lights in middle of the night in the towns. Anyway I think it's absolutely insane.

3. During fog or snow, fog lights can be used instead of (or together with) headlights. That's probably what many didn't know that you can legally turn of your headlights even in complete darkness if there's fog or snowwing, and you turn on your fog lights.

(c) Where two fog lamps within the meaning of article 44 are fitted and each lamp is so placed that no part of the vehicle extends laterally on the same side as the lamp more than 16 inches beyond the illuminated surface of the lamp, such lamps when used in fog or while snow is falling may be deemed to be head lamps for the purposes of paragraph (b) of this sub-article.

4. If, during the day, the failing light or atmospheric condition cause visibility to be reduced to the level you get during night-fall or in night time, you have to turn on your side lights.

(2) (a) Where a vehicle to which this Part of these Regulations applies and which is required under these Regulations to be equipped with side lamps, rear lamps, and identification mark lighting in the day time, is used in a public place during any period in the day time when, due to failing light or atmospheric conditions, visibility is reduced to that obtaining at night-fall or in night time the said side lamps, rear lamps and identification mark lighting shall be shown duly lit.

5. If in addition to (4.) visibility is so reduced that headlights are required for safe driving, you have to turn them on as well.

(b) Where a vehicle to which this Part of these Regulations applies and which is required under these Regulations to be equipped with head lamps in the day time is being driven in a public place during any period in the day time when, due to failing light or atmospheric conditions visibility is so reduced as to render the use of the head lamps necessary for safe driving, such head lamps shall be shown duly lit.

My comment again - I think that any reduced visibility caused by athmospheric conditions, should require drivers to turn on the lights (and not only side lights but headlights as well). But obviously anyone who was writing above regulations was in different opinion. Anyway - it's always better then nothing, because it at least requires drivers to use lights if the weather is very bad.

6. Obviously remember that mentioned earlier headlights have to be dipped in most cases.

(2) (a) Head lamps shall be dipped in good time whenever, while the vehicle is being used in a public place and the head lamps are lit, failure to do so is likely to cause undue inconvenience to other traffic, and in particular—


(i) where the vehicle is about to pass an oncoming vehicle, or


(ii) where the vehicle is travelling close behind another vehicle (except while overtaking such vehicle).

(b) Head lamps shall be dipped whenever, while the vehicle is being used in a public place and the head lamps are lit—


(i) the vehicle is being driven on a road to which a speed limit under section 45 or section 46 of the Act applies, or


(ii) the vehicle is being driven on a road to which a speed limit does not apply, and either—


(I) conditions of visibility are good and the road is continuously lit, or


(II) in conditions of dense fog or falling snow, or


(iii) conditions of visibility are reasonably good during a period after the commencement and before the ending of lighting-up hours.

If I interpreted something wrong - please let me know

twowheelsonly

CiniO wrote: »

It's easy to say if you are driving brand new car with air-conditioner and demisting your window is the case of pushing one button and waiting for a half a minute.

But there are lots of vehicles on the road which doesn't work that good.
Demister work, but are not always so effective.

For example I work as a driver, and a vehicle I'm driving has always had problem with properly demisting windows. In heavy rain I have to use a towel to see through the windows. My right mirror gets a bit dodgy as well, when rain covers it's surface, I barely can see anything in it.
When there's a car overtaking me in bad weather without lights, sometimes I can see it only in the last moment.

What can I do?

As suggested RainX, or the best Glass cleaner that there is...... Silver Polish!! Try it, especially on your mirrors, rain/condensation just runs off. I used it for years on Motorcyle visors and never found anything to match it.

Waterford26

plus dry the mats properly.. u wont beat the mist if the car is wet inside

Waterford26

johnos1984 wrote: »

Apologies wasn't thinking. I removed it from the Corolla altogether and it is much much better. screen is clear in about 30 seconds.

Rainx is available in all motor factors and the like



Great stuff for side windows, mirrors and the back window of saloon cars.

They have it in tescos too!! I using this for more than 3 years and i am really happy with. Dont need to use the wipers over 80km/h ...fantastic for a windscreeeeeen!!!! ..some video for lads which dont know this ..have look how it works.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHtwn_e7p1g&feature=related

Waterford26

Higly recommended!!

zilog_jones

CiniO wrote: »

Affect on fuel consumption is negligible.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/roadsafety_library/consultations/drl_20060727/drl_trl.pdf (see part 4)
This suggests there's about a 0.5% increase in fuel consumption using 42W DRLs versus 1.8-1.9% from 160W dipped beams (2x55W plus tail lights, etc.). In respects of fuel consumption using your dipped beams is similar to leaving your rear window demister on. Sure that maybe less than 1 MPG but it all adds up.

I don't think there is such big amount of drivers with badly adjusted headlights.
It's just a small percentage what I can see.

You probably wouldn't notice much driving a coach (not sure what you drive normally), but in my small old Fiesta with low rear windscreen, low wing mirrors, low driving position, etc., I am frequently near-blinded by dodgy lights from all directions when driving at night.

The problem here, might be that probably most drivers don't know that they have to adjust headlights according to the weight they carry in the car. That if they fit 5 passengers with lots of luggage in the boot, they definitely need to put headlight lower with the adjustement knob. Barely anyone does it. That might be the problem.

I'm certain that is also a contributing factor.

Silvera

draffodx wrote: »

Simple reason for this is lack of driver education and re-education.

That sentence, in a nutshell, sums up nearly all Irish motoring problems!

Whether its tailgating, driving with fog lights on, stupid overtaking etc etc etc it nearly all comes down to lack of driver education.

CiniO

zilog_jones wrote: »

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/roadsafety_library/consultations/drl_20060727/drl_trl.pdf (see part 4)
This suggests there's about a 0.5% increase in fuel consumption using 42W DRLs versus 1.8-1.9% from 160W dipped beams (2x55W plus tail lights, etc.). In respects of fuel consumption using your dipped beams is similar to leaving your rear window demister on. Sure that maybe less than 1 MPG but it all adds up.

That's most likely true - 0.5% bigger fuel consumption with DRL and 1.8% bigger consumption with dipped headlights.
But what we were actually talking about, was using lights during bad weather during the day. How often does it happen, that people should turn on their lights during daytime. 10% maybe 20% of driving. And how much of driving is during daytime (on average during the year) - 60% - 70%.
So let's say we are talking only about 15% of time (with bad visibility) during daytime driving (which is 65%).
15% of 65% is only about 10% of all driving...

So your increased fuel consumption will be only for 10% of your driving.


So if someone spends 3000 euros a year on fuel, then he will have to pay only 3000 * 1.8% * 10% = 5.4 euros extra during the year for his fuel.
Do you think that's not worth it.

zilog_jones

I was responding to someone earlier talking about using dipped beams at all times, I have nothing against using them in dark conditions.

patrickc

in 10 mins today at about 1/2 four i counted 23 cars either with one working main beam, or parking lights on. wtf like