A money saving idea!!

Big Mouth

How about we sack all the council workers, you know the ones who stand around looking at holes everyday and generally do about 5 minutes work a day. I would love to know how many of these labour council workers there are?

We get rid of them and replace them with a competitive system where private companies tender for jobs on offer by each council, the ex-council workers can then be absorbed into the private industry and / or set-up their own private companies to tender.

It would tighten up the money spent, get jobs done quicker and better as it will be very competitive and companies will do their best to score points.

Agree or disagree?

OhNoYouDidn't

Big Mouth wrote: »

How about we sack all the council workers, you know the ones who stand around looking at holes everyday and generally do about 5 minutes work a day. I would love to know how many of these labour council workers there are?

We get rid of them and replace them with a competitive system where private companies tender for jobs on offer by each council, the ex-council workers can then be absorbed into the private industry and / or set-up their own private companies to tender.

It would tighten up the money spent, get jobs done quicker and better as it will be very competitive and companies will do their best to score points.

Agree or disagree?

Do you not think that if the private sector could do work quicker and cheaper than public staff that they would not already have the contracts?

Where does this myth that the private sector in Ireland is more efficient actually come from?

Big Mouth

Are you seriously suggesting that those council "workers" do a good job?

I've lost all respect for you know! how could you possibly defend them at at all. Jeez after that post and reading the other thread you really are way way way over the top in defending the Public Sector...

johngalway

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Do you not think that if the private sector could do work quicker and cheaper than public staff that they would not already have the contracts?

Where does this myth that the private sector in Ireland is more efficient actually come from?

No. Simply because the systems in place in this country do not work properly.

A private company tarmaced a stretch of road the far side of the village from me. They done it in two days I think. Everyone was working. The lad on the roller was also directing traffic, no hold ups.

The CoCo came along after their usual unreasonable delay to put the final finish on the road, sprayed tar and chippings. This took them two weeks. There were 20-25 minute delays, lots of pot bellied porkers standing around doing SFA.

OhNoYouDidn't

Big Mouth wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that those council "workers" do a good job?

Far from it. But recent experience has shown the private sector aren't exactly leading by example.

Big Mouth wrote: »

I've lost all respect for you know! how could you possibly defend them at at all. Jeez after that post and reading the other thread you really are way way way over the top in defending the Public Sector...

I'm defending PS WORKERS from divide and conqour attack. The problem isn't the nurse, soldier, teacher, council worker....

Big Mouth

By making it competitive it will put pressure on firms to deliver prompt and effiecent results!! So I completely disagree that private firms would be just as bad, look at the other posters example for a common theme with this shower of wasters!

OhNoYouDidn't

Big Mouth wrote: »

By making it competitive it will put pressure on firms to deliver prompt and effiecent results!! So I completely disagree that private firms would be just as bad, look at the other posters example for a common theme with this shower of wasters!

Give me one example of the private sector delivering 'more prompt and efficient results' than the public sector in Ireland.

senordingdong

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Give me one example of the private sector delivering 'more prompt and efficient results' than the public sector in Ireland.

Private health care vs. Public health care.

Big Mouth

Eh just look at the other posters comments

And if you really think private firms would do the same amount of "work" as those lads then you're deluded. Look i'll make it very simple for you as you don't seem to get it.........Offaly county council put out tenders for road works, private company A calculate expenses of doing it e.g. €3500 for tools, staff, etc they put a tender in for €5,000 and some company B puts in a tender for €5,500 so Offaly county council opt for company A.

Company A then start the work and know that a council person will have to approve of the job at the end. So I ask you Oh No You Didn't do you think they will have 5 / 6 of the beer belly brigade standing around costing them money? And do you think they will do a good fast job?

OhNoYouDidn't

Big Mouth wrote: »

Eh just look at the other posters comments

And if you really think private firms would do the same amount of "work" as those lads then you're deluded. Look i'll make it very simple for you as you don't seem to get it.........Offaly county council put out tenders for road works, private company A calculate expenses of doing it e.g. €3500 for tools, staff, etc they put a tender in for €5,000 and some company B puts in a tender for €5,500 so Offaly county council opt for company A.

Company A then start the work and know that a council person will have to approve of the job at the end. So I ask you Oh No You Didn't do you think they will have 5 / 6 of the beer belly brigade standing around costing them money? And do you think they will do a good fast job?

So no actual example then.

bladespin

senordingdong wrote: »

Private health care vs. Public health care.

I'd like to see where it does, only this morning heard of a certain health insurer's patient left waiting on a trolley only to be put into a 'prison bed' in a hospital, great service from private health care that.

OhNoYouDidn't

senordingdong wrote: »

Private health care vs. Public health care.

I would question if private health care is more efficient, but I meant in the sense of a private company taking a service or project off the public sector and running it better.

Look at the M50 toll, eircom, the corruption around refuse collection etc for examples of them doing anything but.

I'm all for creative ideas to save the state money and don't think there should be any sacred cows, but this idea hasn't been thought out beyond a petty dig at council staff.

delta720

Big Mouth wrote: »

How about we sack all the council workers, you know the ones who stand around looking at holes everyday and generally do about 5 minutes work a day. I would love to know how many of these labour council workers there are?

We get rid of them and replace them with a competitive system where private companies tender for jobs on offer by each council, the ex-council workers can then be absorbed into the private industry and / or set-up their own private companies to tender.

It would tighten up the money spent, get jobs done quicker and better as it will be very competitive and companies will do their best to score points.

Agree or disagree?

In most Co Co the workers are general workers, the guy sweeping the street one day, is filling in a pot hole the next day. They don't, in general, do any major works, these are put out for tender.

Do you not have any idea the amount of planning and admin that if takes to even propose a project for tender? If it was done for every minor job it would cost a massive amount, and then you would be on boards.ie complaining that the Co Co are spending too much money out sourcing their jobs when they could just take a few people off the dole to go around filling in pot-holes.

I think you just felt the Co Co workers hadn't yet had their 'fair' share of PS beatings so you'd have a wee go.

Fair play to you.

mickoneill30

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Give me one example of the private sector delivering 'more prompt and efficient results' than the public sector in Ireland.

The council collect bins in my estate.
So do a private sector company.

Council.
Buy your bin tag in a shop + pay your fees for the year seperately. Every so often (not very often) they wouldn't pick up a bin for some reason so then you had to ring them to see if they were coming another day. Frequently came home from work to find the bin on the road or right across the entrance to mine or the neighbours house. Not a big thing but it doesn't seem that hard to me to put a bin back on the path out of the way.

Since I switched.

Private company
Pay your yearly fee over the phone + pay your pickup fee the same way so never forget the bin tag. Both fees are cheaper than the councils. Get a text every night before collection to say which bins they're picking up. In two years if they've needed to alter a pickup day we've gotten notified beforehand. Usually come home from work to find the bin where I left it but empty.

It's not a major example but it's relevant to me.

Big Mouth

delta720 wrote: »

In most Co Co the workers are general workers, the guy sweeping the street one day, is filling in a pot hole the next day. They don't, in general, do any major works, these are put out for tender.

Do you not have any idea the amount of planning and admin that if takes to even propose a project for tender? If it was done for every minor job it would cost a massive amount, and then you would be on boards.ie complaining that the Co Co are spending too much money out sourcing their jobs when they could just take a few people off the dole to go around filling in pot-holes.

I think you just felt the Co Co workers hadn't yet had their 'fair' share of PS beatings so you'd have a wee go.

Fair play to you.

And you're happy witht things as they are? You don't see any problem all these chaps getting paid to stand around most of the day?

Don't mind me....FAIR PLAY TO YOU

OhNoYouDidn't

Big Mouth wrote: »

And you're happy witht things as they are? You don't see any problem all these chaps getting paid to stand around most of the day?

Don't mind me....FAIR PLAY TO YOU

But they don't stand around all day. All this is is a pop at council workers and an ill thought out scheme to make them redundant and farm their work out to the private sector for no reason other than half baked ideology.

senordingdong

I think that lazy workers are lazy workers regardless of whether they are public or private.
I don't think you can state that one is lazier than the other.

I will however, agree that if a public sector employee is found to be lazy, or incompetant, it does seem impossible to dismiss them.

Big Mouth

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But they don't stand around all day. All this is is a pop at council workers and an ill thought out scheme to make them redundant and farm their work out to the private sector for no reason other than half baked ideology.

They don't stand around all day? Give me a break!!

@ Senor ding dong - There is some truth in what you're saying but at the end of the day you get away with what your let get away with and that is abundantly clear in the public sector.

Dont think you would see anyone standing around if a private firm where only getting paid a certain amount!

delta720

Big Mouth wrote: »

They don't stand around all day? Give me a break!!

@ Senor ding dong - There is some truth in what you're saying but at the end of the day you get away with what your let get away with and that is abundantly clear in the public sector.

Dont think you would see anyone standing around if a private firm where only getting paid a certain amount!

I would really like to know where you got the idea that public sector workers 'stand around' more than private sector workers? Do you stand around all day watching them? Was there a national study carried out? Or is this just you using the popular image of a guy leaning on a shovel, drinking a cup of tea, to justify some more, good ole PS bashing?

I think that they probably do stand around looking into holes a bit more than other workers, but I believe this has nothing to do with whether they are publicly or privately employed, I think it is basically in the nature of their job. And saying that private workers would never get away with that is pure and utter rubbish. If you had the pleasure of working on any of our fine building sites a number of years ago you'd have seen that there's nothing like a good fag break to help pass the day.

It seems clear to me that it has been a long time since you have worked an unskilled minimum wage job.

unit 1

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The council collect bins in my estate.
So do a private sector company.

Council.
Buy your bin tag in a shop + pay your fees for the year seperately. Every so often (not very often) they wouldn't pick up a bin for some reason so then you had to ring them to see if they were coming another day. Frequently came home from work to find the bin on the road or right across the entrance to mine or the neighbours house. Not a big thing but it doesn't seem that hard to me to put a bin back on the path out of the way.

Since I switched.

Private company
Pay your yearly fee over the phone + pay your pickup fee the same way so never forget the bin tag. Both fees are cheaper than the councils. Get a text every night before collection to say which bins they're picking up. In two years if they've needed to alter a pickup day we've gotten notified beforehand. Usually come home from work to find the bin where I left it but empty.

It's not a major example but it's relevant to me.

And therein lies the problem many in the ps face. You seem to agree that the end result is the same ie your rubbish is collected, however the private collector is preferable to you, and your point seems fair untill you dig a bit deeeper.
Maybe you don't live next door to your elderly parents who have to pay the private guy but got a waiver from the council.
Perhaps the private contractors have safer working conditions for their employees:D(I know of one contractor who purchased a lorry off his local coco and could only get it to work properly when "he got his snips out and cut out all them safety sh!te yokes)
The state, ie you and me, have to pay for the cleanup of waste illegally dumped in NI (I've never heard of a local authority going up north to illegaly dump waste, but maybe just maybe a private contractor would;))
Private collectors had no cost to bear for the setting up of landfill infrastructure, collection is a "systemically important" part of waste management, but as its lucrative for collectors it could actually be asset stripping or cherrypicking the profitable bits and leave the headaches for local government to deal with.
And finally,in comparing privatised services to previous unsatisfactory services is you should always consider that they are very rarely the "exact same services" and there will always be losers to some extent, they just might not be you.

zing zong

Big Mouth wrote: »

How about we sack all the council workers, you know the ones who stand around looking at holes everyday and generally do about 5 minutes work a day. I would love to know how many of these labour council workers there are?

We get rid of them and replace them with a competitive system where private companies tender for jobs on offer by each council, the ex-council workers can then be absorbed into the private industry and / or set-up their own private companies to tender.

It would tighten up the money spent, get jobs done quicker and better as it will be very competitive and companies will do their best to score points.

Agree or disagree?

a better idea would be to get the lads in prison out to do council work during the day

and before ye panic, i'm not talking about the gang members or rapists etc etc, i mean the rest of 'em

this should have been the case all along, if it were up to me,

of course can you trust the gardai to be vigilant? maybe not :rolleyes:

but they get to put their time to some constructive use, after all, killing time in prison is just that, they can give something back, plus we would save a fortune in tax

i cant see any major downside to this

senordingdong

zing zong wrote: »

i cant see any major downside to this

The bleeding hearts (and the unions) would have a fit.

unit 1

According to yerman from the nra there was a problem on the m7 yesterday. I'm sure it was'nt the fault of any super efficient private contractor, most likely some fat council guy.:rolleyes: bash bash bash.

smallBiscuit

Big Mouth wrote: »

How about we sack all the council workers, you know the ones who stand around looking at holes everyday and generally do about 5 minutes work a day. I would love to know how many of these labour council workers there are?

We get rid of them and replace them with a competitive system where private companies tender for jobs on offer by each council, the ex-council workers can then be absorbed into the private industry and / or set-up their own private companies to tender.

It would tighten up the money spent, get jobs done quicker and better as it will be very competitive and companies will do their best to score points.

Agree or disagree?

Why not replace them with the unemployed? We are already "paying" for them.
How about, you're made redundant or can't get a job, you have 6 months to a year's grace, then you have to go work for the councils*.
Provides you with some new skills + a very good way to catch the people who are scamming the dole by flying into the country every couple of weeks to collect the dole money.
I know we have the ce scheme's but instead of them doing make work, doing real work which is needed to be done and we are already paying someone else to do

* exceptions have to be made for those who for some reason can't do the work and Flexibility to allow for job interviews and the like

smallBiscuit

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The council collect bins in my estate.
So do a private sector company.

Council.
Buy your bin tag in a shop + pay your fees for the year seperately. Every so often (not very often) they wouldn't pick up a bin for some reason so then you had to ring them to see if they were coming another day. Frequently came home from work to find the bin on the road or right across the entrance to mine or the neighbours house. Not a big thing but it doesn't seem that hard to me to put a bin back on the path out of the way.

I was told that the basic reason for this is because the council's do not want to have to do it at all.
In Kildare, my bin costs with the council are (or were, I'm not with them anymore) €340 a year + €7.50 a tag compared to Thorntons, at €290 a year all in.
The council is more expensive because they don't want to do it

mickoneill30

smallBiscuit wrote: »

I was told that the basic reason for this is because the council's do not want to have to do it at all.
In Kildare, my bin costs with the council are (or were, I'm not with them anymore) €340 a year + €7.50 a tag compared to Thorntons, at €290 a year all in.
The council is more expensive because they don't want to do it

So the next question would be why not if they can make a profit from it to fund something else?

smallBiscuit

mickoneill30 wrote: »

So the next question would be why not if they can make a profit from it to fund something else?

Indeed, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just stating how it is.

To the people complaining the cost is to high, remember you are free to be robbed by anyone you choose