Lets face it they are all the same

Denzil2222

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

Zynks

Hard to speculate or comment on your speculation that other parties would have done the same. Too far fetched and generalised.

As for politicians wanting to stay in power, that is natural since people enter politics to drive some sort of change that they believe to be necessary, and the best way to do it is when you are in power. Are you planning to vote for politicians that don't care about power?

yermanoffthetv

Zynks wrote: »

Are you planning to vote for politicians that don't care about power?

Id vote for a minarchist party! (Its an idealogy, no really!:D)

Zynks

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Id vote for a minarchist party! (Its an idealogy, no really!:D)

yeah, liberalism meets anarchy. Why not, it can't get much worse anyway

Mits

For the foreseeable future Ireland is going to be ruled by coalition. Which means a main party held to ransom by a smaller party or independents.

They are all the same. I remember over the last 10 years the opposition giving out that the government was not spending enough for the pet project.

I don’t believe that all politicians are think, the must have known the boom would end badly. But it sickens me to see the people that messed it up still in charge.

Coillte_Bhoy

Denzil2222 wrote: »

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

lazy attitutde to say they are all the same. How can you say FG or Lab would have done the same? It's quite possible they would have but your just making a cheap point without any back up. Having a go at the Greens on your basis is a bit unfair. They entered Govt in very different circumstances than we face today. Yes, i think they should have pulled out by now but they have chosen to stick to their govt agreement so again you opt to make a cheap shot, not backed up in any way. Easy for people like you to tar them all with the same brush woithout any even half baked analyis offered to back your views.

Coillte_Bhoy

Mits wrote: »

For the foreseeable future Ireland is going to be ruled by coalition. Which means a main party held to ransom by a smaller party or independents.

No it wont. The 3 main parties (on recent polls) will have roughly the same amount of seats imo after the election so a coallition will have a huge majority with both parties having roughly equal status so your analyisis is flwed.

Mits wrote: »

They are all the same. I remember over the last 10 years the opposition giving out that the government was not spending enough for the pet project.

Care to elaborate???

Mits wrote: »

I don’t believe that all politicians are think, the must have known the boom would end badly. But it sickens me to see the people that messed it up still in charge.

The Irish people lected this Govt, like it or not

Lapin

Denzil2222 wrote: »

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

The Greens managed to pursue many of their policies while in government.
The stag hunting bill being the most obvious.

Whether we agree with them or not, the fact is, such legislation would never have been discussed in The Dáil (let alone reach the statute books) had the Green party not been in government.

To that aim, they can say that they achieved something.
Something they would never achieve in a million years on the opposition benches.

I'm not a member of The Green Party and I have nothing to do with them but the fact is, they have fulfilled more of their election manifesto in the last 2 and a half years than FG, Labour or SF combined in the last 13 years.

jimmycrackcorm

Had labour been in power for the last thirteen years then we'd be in a worse state now because they would have gone even crazier on public spending. They would not have spotted the impending financial crisis. FG also had some crazy plans about giving eircom shareholders free money or the like.

So yes, they are all the same until one party stands up and tells the people they will have to take their medicine against the popular line.

View

Denzil2222 wrote: »

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

There are differences between them.

For instance, in the 2002 general election, due to the improved economic circumstances we had then, Labour proposed that taxes should be kept constant and the proceeds invested/spent on improving public services. The PDs (particularly) and FF, by way of contrast, proposed cutting taxes and (if I remember rightly) leaving public services at the then "current" levels.

As it was, after the public picked the alternative they preferred, what we got was taxes and massively increased spending on public services - a policy which we now know, once you remove the property bubble (and related taxes), results in a massive hole in the state's finances.

View

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Had labour been in power for the last thirteen years then we'd be in a worse state now because they would have gone even crazier on public spending. They would not have spotted the impending financial crisis.

Whereas FF and the PD saw it coming and skillfully put in place measures to avert it.... :rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

FG also had some crazy plans about giving eircom shareholders free money or the like.

Well, thankfully we live in a capitalist society where the government would never think of compensating anyone for the loses they incur as a result of their investments.

Unless - unlike the Eircom shareholders - they are bond-holders in the banks at which point all this capitalist stuff goes out the window and the taxpayers' money is happily used to supply them with "free money".

Mits

Your dead right Lapin in what say and maybe we do deserve the government that we have.

The Greens have achieved alot of what they set out to do. But I wish someone would stop them because I think they are nuts, carbon tax, water charges in a country that rains so much, bikes in Dublin, 30km speed limit, wind power subsidised, banning hunting etc

I never voted for the Greens and never will.

Einhard

Denzil2222 wrote: »

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

I've nothing against cynicism but this is a really lazy analysis. I'm not great fan of either Labour or FG, but the last government they formed together performed well and defied expectations. Labour in power will always run more towards the centre than they do in opposition, for obvious reasons, and especially so when they are in coalition with FG.

I'd also point out that, when it came to pissing money away, Labour were far more restrained and responsible in power than FF, who basically never left election mode, and framed budgets with an eye to winning votes rather than financial prudence.

Einhard

Mits wrote: »

Your dead right Lapin in what say and maybe we do deserve the government that we have.

The Greens have achieved alot of what they set out to do. But I wish someone would stop them because I think they are nuts, carbon tax, water charges in a country that rains so much, bikes in Dublin, 30km speed limit, wind power subsidised, banning hunting etc

Unless you collect all the water you use in a barrel outside your house and home filter it, then then fact that it rains a lot in Ireland is really beside the point.

The Dublin bike scheme has been a great success. What's wrong with providing bikes for people to use?

Hunting hasn't been banned.

Liam Byrne

Denzil2222 wrote: »

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

Recent FG expense claims have shown they are more similar than I'd like.

I genuinely can't see how you can view they're as bad, though, and FG & Labour's track record on NAMA & Anglo proves that they would have done many things differently.

It's also funny that Labour - often viewed as too tied to the unions - aren't the ones that landed us in the current public service wage bill nightmare.

So - short answer - you're wrong.

If you really want to look at facts rather than guesswork and possible bias, have a look at what FG & Labour managed the last time they were in power.

Laminations

A murderer stands in front of a court and says in his defense, 'you would have all become murderers if you had my life, if you had my choices'

Now he may be correct but it's irrelevant, I can't be punished for his choices, even if it's more than likely I'd make the same mistakes in his predicament. So he owns his choices and he takes responsibility. He is sentenced for a number of reasons, to punish him and act as deterrent for others who would think to do the same but also because he (possibly by virtue of his makeup rather than his choice) remains a danger to society and needs to be kept away from the general public where he could reoffend znd cause more damage.

These two reasons are why FF need to be voted out and removed from government for a long spell, to show all politicians that such poor performance is unacceptable and to keep the tired incompetents away from the levers of power and doing more damage - the people and the markets have lost faith in them, their continuing in government damages the morale and reputation of Ireland.

So yes all parties are similar and prone to making the same mistakes but the fact is they didn't all make the decisions - it was FF who ran the country into the ground.

jmayo

Denzil2222 wrote: »

FF FG Labour, 3 cheeks on the same arse, nothing would be different today if FG Or labour or FG and labour together were in power for the last 13 years, they would have pissed all the money away just like FF. The green party are proof of this we all thought they were very different but once in power all they want is stay in power no matter what.

It was must be great to have the power of vision into a parallel universe where everyone is the same as ff. :rolleyes:

BTW did you ever bother listening to any of the budget debates say back in 2002, 2003, 2004 to actually find out what the oposition parties were actually saying ?

BTW as long as people like you exist, we will always be shafted because your mindset just says that they are all the same and why bother voting.
Thus you allow the incompent shysters continue as is.

By God ff probably love you seen as you swallow their propaganda so well. :rolleyes: