Recent increase in Loyalist attacks-Will it lead to tit for tat?

Wolfe Tone

Last night there were two bombs planted by loyalists in West Belfast, apparently outside the home of a prominent SF man, interview below.

The blast happened around 2000 GMT. A family of six in the house at the time was not injured, although a van parked outside was badly damaged.

A number of people who had to leave their homes in both areas have been allowed to return.

It is believed the bomb which exploded was attached to a container of petrol.

More detail: BBC report

A four-year-old girl and a pregnant woman have escaped injury after a pipe bomb exploded at their home in west Belfast

UTV

A second bomb was found nearby, but was made safe. These appear to be incendiary devices rather than concussive. Could have been a horrific incident.

Liam Shannon, who has lived in the targeted La Salle Park property for about 30 years, said he believed loyalists were behind the attack.

“This is the third bomb attack on my house in recent times,” he told the Belfast Telegraph.

“I have no idea why I have been targeted. I thought we had left this sort of thing behind but obviously not.

“I think it’s likely to be loyalists. It was loyalists who have targeted me in the past.”

The two houses which were targeted back on to each other.

Mr Shannon added: “The device was sitting on my wall alongside the driveway.

“I went round to see what happened when the first bomb went off, so I would have walked past it then.

“The whole street would have walked past.

“I didn’t see a thing and then the the police shouted for me to get out of the house.

“I would have preferred not to leave but they said they would not work on it until we were out

of the property. They told me it was a very, very viable device.”

Taken from Belfast Telegraph

Today there are a further two alerts, one (i believe) in a Loyalist area the other in a nationalist area(open to correction on this, I am not from Belfast so I am not 100%) Possible republican retaliation? At this time however these are just alerts, nothing confirmed.

Twelve homes have been evacuated in west Belfast due to a security alert.

Police are at the scene and Army bomb experts are examining a suspicious object found in Colinview Street.

A suspicious object has also been found in a second security alert close to the Alexandra Bar on York Road in north Belfast.

Parts of the Limestone Road and Mountcollyer Avenue have been sealed-off.

Taken from BBC



So is this the beginning of a heralded loyalist offensive? A return to tit for tat attacks? Further evidence that normalization is a myth?


What I find interesting is that apparently the first attack was aimed at a SF man. Significant.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Republican attacks haven't caused any casulties recently and the constitutional status of norn iron isn't under threat which are the traditional reasons for loyalist attacks

There were loyalist riots in Rathcoole against HET raids in the area last week. I'd imagine this is just an extension of those riots.

jackbenimble

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Last night there were two bombs planted by loyalists in West Belfast, apparently outside the home of a prominent SF man, interview below.

Have you any proof they were planted by loyalists?

Wolfe Tone

jackbenimble wrote: »

Have you any proof they were planted by loyalists?

Look at the facts, it is obvious that it was loyalists. Even the guy who was targeted in one instance believes it was loyalists.

Do you not think it was loyalists? If so, why not? Do you have an opinion on the attack and its perpetrators?

jackbenimble

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Look at the facts, it is obvious that it was loyalists. Even the guy who was targeted in one instance believes it was loyalists.

Do you not think it was loyalists? If so, why not? Do you have an opinion on the attack and its perpetrators?

I think it's best to wait until real evidence emerges before speculating.

The fact that the individual involved has speculated on the motivation of those who planted the device means absolutely nothing, especially given his Republican thinking.

Wolfe Tone

jackbenimble wrote: »

I think it's best to wait until real evidence emerges before speculating.

:rolleyes::rolleyes: Keep the head in the sand there chara.

The fact that the individual involved has speculated on the motivation of those who planted the device means absolutely nothing, especially given his Republican thinking.

Pathetic stuff this from you.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Come on lads lets not go down the usual road.

It seems likely to me it was escalation of the loyalist rioting organised by the UVF last week but jack has a point there is no confirmation. There's other possible explanations its a run down republican area could be gang feuding for all we know

Wolfe Tone

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Come on lads lets not go down the usual road.

It seems likely to me it was escalation of the loyalist rioting organised by the UVF last week but jack has a point there is no confirmation. There's other possible explanations its a run down republican area could be gang feuding for all we know

Fair enough. Although it is perfectly clear that it is loyalists. Belfast Telegraph is blaming loyalists too. Gang feuding? I doubt it.

Scofflaw

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Come on lads lets not go down the usual road.

Seconded, with emphasis.

moderately,
Scofflaw

geespot

good man unionjack be numbing it was definetly gerry adams am sure you have the pictures to prove it

Scofflaw

geespot wrote: »

good man unionjack be numbing it was definetly gerry adams am sure you have the pictures to prove it

Learn to read (see post above about "the usual road"). While you're at it, you might consider learning how to write, too.

moderately,
Scofflaw

PanchoVilla

These attacks could have been perpetrated by anyone who has something to gain by keeping the tensions between Republicans and Loyalists high. That leaves the door open for a number of groups, including dissident Republicans hell bent on starting another armed struggle.

It that light it's pointless to speculate on who actually carried out the attacks, I just hope the Republican community has enough faith in the PSNI to let them investigate properly and bring the perpetrators to justice, whoever they may be.

karma_

The Belfast Telly is usually fairly accurate on calls like these so it's fairly safe to assume at this stage that this was a loyalist attack, which is backed up as the pipe bomb is one of their trademarks.

Bottle_of_Smoke

karma_ wrote: »

The Belfast Telly is usually fairly accurate on calls like these so it's fairly safe to assume at this stage that this was a loyalist attack, which is backed up as the pipe bomb is one of their trademarks.

It is in its hole. Its the equivalent of the Indo with added sh*t stirring. Furthermore it was only quoting a local man's opinion.

dlofnep

karma_ wrote: »

The Belfast Telly is usually fairly accurate on calls like these so it's fairly safe to assume at this stage that this was a loyalist attack, which is backed up as the pipe bomb is one of their trademarks.

Heh. It's about as balanced as a fat man on a seesaw.

dlofnep

Back on topic - I notice that the media is usually quite about these events. I remember that last time loyalists placed a pipe-bomb in a catholic school - it was printed in the typical tabloids, but they didn't mention that it was loyalists. I remember especially in the Daily Mirror - the page was divided in two. The top half dedicated to the loyalist attack (not once mentioning it was loyalists), and then on the bottom half, with intent of "balancing" it out - they wrote an article on some dissident republican attack that had happened about a month prior to this. They were very clear to state that it was Republicans.

The bias in the media is atrocious and there should be balance to reporting.

jackbenimble

dlofnep wrote: »

Back on topic - I notice that the media is usually quite about these events. I remember that last time loyalists placed a pipe-bomb in a catholic school - it was printed in the typical tabloids, but they didn't mention that it was loyalists. I remember especially in the Daily Mirror - the page was divided in two. The top half dedicated to the loyalist attack (not once mentioning it was loyalists), and then on the bottom half, with intent of "balancing" it out - they wrote an article on some dissident republican attack that had happened about a month prior to this. They were very clear to state that it was Republicans.

The bias in the media is atrocious and there should be balance to reporting.

Obviously most Unionists/Loyalists see the media bias differently to you.

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

Obviously most Unionists/Loyalists see the media bias differently to you.

Care to cite any examples?

amacachi

Jesus if every pipe-bombing around here made the news there'd be no space for anything else. :pac:

I don't think there's enough evidence to extrapolate from yet. Obviously one can only hope it was a one-off thing.

KeithAFC

Would not surprise me. Seems to be a mini uprising.

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI, saying will it be tit for tat is stupid. If it did, the peace process would be over.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

MUSSOLINI, saying will it be tit for tat is stupid. If it did, the peace process would be over.

How is it stupid to ask that? What we have had here appears to be 2 loyalist bombs, then a dissident one outside what I believe is a loyalist pub the next day.

Wolfe Tone

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It is in its hole. Its the equivalent of the Indo with added sh*t stirring. Furthermore it was only quoting a local man's opinion.

Do you really think that this was not a loyalist attack?

geespot

going by all reports young people queing up to join r.i.r.a. in fairness to the loyalist they or doing there best to boost the r.i.r.a recruitment drive like paisley and his bigot friends did for the provos in the past

KeithAFC

geespot wrote: »

going by all reports young people queing up to join r.i.r.a. in fairness to the loyalist they or doing there best to boost the r.i.r.a recruitment drive like paisley and his bigot friends did for the provos in the past

Blame the dissidents. The moment they kill loyalists, that is when the problems will come.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

Blame the dissidents. The moment they kill loyalists, that is when the problems will come.

How about this.

Anyone hurt or killed by dissidents, we blame dissidents. Anyone hurt or killed by loyalists, we blame loyalists. We don't pass the buck, and whoever commits the act is solely responsible.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

How about this.

Anyone hurt or killed by dissidents, we blame dissidents. Anyone hurt or killed by loyalists, we blame loyalists. We don't pass the buck, and whoever commits the act is solely responsible.

The chances are that the dissidents will kill a loyalist and its a very high chance of this happening. The moment this happens, is when things will kick off because the UVF will not stand by and allow this to happen.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

The chances are that the dissidents will kill a loyalist and its a very high chance of this happening. The moment this happens, is when things will kick off because the UVF will not stand by and allow this to happen.

Thats a no then dlofnep.

Keith, you would of course urge restraint, and urge all loyalists to follow the peaceful path.... right?

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

The chances are that the dissidents will kill a loyalist and its a very high chance of this happening. The moment this happens, is when things will kick off because the UVF will not stand by and allow this to happen.

What had the children in that school in Antrim that was planted with a pipe-bomb have to do with dissidents? Stop passing the buck.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

What had the children in that school in Antrim that was planted with a pipe-bomb have to do with dissidents? Stop passing the buck.

Same can be said for the bomb left near the bin which went off which was planted by the dissidents.

The dissidents seem better armed at the moment too.

I support the GFA.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

Same can be said for the bomb left near the bin which went off which was planted by the dissidents.

I don't remember trying to blame loyalists for anything dissidents have done.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't remember trying to blame loyalists for anything dissidents have done.

Some would.

But going on high ratio chances, the dissidents are getting closer.

dlofnep

Ok Keith, I got it. Dissidents evil, loyalists good.

round tower huntsman

loyalist wont retaliate seriuosly until their handlers in mi5 and britsh army give them the order to do so.

Bottle_of_Smoke

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Do you really think that this was not a loyalist attack?

As I said I think it likely it was a loyalist attack over the HET raids. That post was addressing the fallacy that the BT is an accurate news source.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

Ok Keith, I got it. Dissidents evil, loyalists good.

You can't read? Ok.

The dissidents are better armed than the loyalists, the dissidents are planting bombs and will get lucky once. For me, the dissidents would get a unionist before loyalists would get a republican.

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

The chances are that the dissidents will kill a loyalist and its a very high chance of this happening. The moment this happens, is when things will kick off because the UVF will not stand by and allow this to happen.

Just to clarify do you mean a loyalist paramilitary or just your average loyalist citizen?

The former I really don't think so, they know they'd be blamed for any retaliation and the British government wouldn't give a f*ck. The latter pretty much the same. Catholic police officers appear to be their main target the last while. Bizarre form of sectarianism really.

PanchoVilla

Why don't we cut all the dissident/loyalist bullshít and just call a terrorist a terrorist. Anyone who plants a pipe bomb outside someone's home is nothing more than a terrorist, simple as that. Their political views don't make a damn bit of difference as soon as they make the conscious decision to take an innocent person's life. The people responsible should be locked up for the better part of their natural lives.

Big Mouth

If that scumbag Shankill butcher fella came back as a zombie and went around killing every Catholic he crossed I can guarantee there would be a thread on here blaming Republicans :rolleyes:

Thankfully the opinions on here do not represent the majority of Irish people who think all terrorists are scumbags and don't blame all Ulster problems on the IRA or Sinn Fein!

junder

The only allegations that it wasa loyalist attack I have seen have cone from the sf man targeted, I have yet to hear any such information coming from the police. Moreover it seems to have disappeared from the news. You would have thought any indication of loyalist offensive would be front page news. As for being an extension if the HET riots, rathcoole is a long long way from south west Belfast. Infact the neighbouring loyalist area to the st James area has been very quiet of late, how do I know this, well I live there.
Maybe the attack was down by the local gang of hoods the IBA, who have been under alot of pressure from republicans planted the pipe bombs who knows, until we get a statement from the police we can only speculate.

Wolfe Tone

junder wrote: »

The only allegations that it wasa loyalist attack I have seen have cone from the sf man targeted, I have yet to hear any such information coming from the police. Moreover it seems to have disappeared from the news. You would have thought any indication of loyalist offensive would be front page news. As for being an extension if the HET riots, rathcoole is a long long way from south west Belfast. Infact the neighbouring loyalist area to the st James area has been very quiet of late, how do I know this, well I live there.
Maybe the attack was down by the local gang of hoods the IBA, who have been under alot of pressure from republicans planted the pipe bombs who knows, until we get a statement from the police we can only speculate.

It wouldn't be the first time that things have just disappeared from the news would it? However I think at this stage we can safely discount any dissident involvement. If the guy targeted had reason to suspect it was hoods wouldn't he say it? Im inclined to believe him when he says it was loyalists. Seen as you are from Belfast, could you tell me if the pub targeted the next day with an apparently viable device is a loyalist one?

And as for the IBA(care to tell me what it stands for?), they are the people OnH threatened to shoot unless they cleared out yes? Why would they target a PSF man?

Bottle_of_Smoke

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

And as for the IBA(care to tell me what it stands for?), they are the people OnH threatened to shoot unless they cleared out yes? Why would they target a PSF man?

I'd Buck Anything I think. Heard a few variations but that's the main one.

round tower huntsman

tbh it could easily been mi5 trying to stir up trouble between republicans. better to have dissidents involved in fueds then attacking cops.
but the victim reckoned it was loyalist, in which case mi5 would still have given the ok.

KeithAFC

round tower huntsman wrote: »

tbh it could easily been mi5 trying to stir up trouble between republicans. better to have dissidents involved in fueds then attacking cops.
but the victim reckoned it was loyalist, in which case mi5 would still have given the ok.

It's a conspiracy. It must be the MI5 planting all these bombs.

round tower huntsman

its a very real possibility that british military intel would try and stir up some sort of republican fued,agents have that that in the past. any way i read in irish news today that both cira and onh have denied any involvment. that leaves mi5 or loyalists, two sides of same coin really.

KeithAFC

round tower huntsman wrote: »

its a very real possibility that british military intel would try and stir up some sort of republican fued,agents have that that in the past. any way i read in irish news today that both cira and onh have denied any involvment. that leaves mi5 or loyalists, two sides of same coin really.

Agree. Must be the MI5. Just has to be. Typical Brits.

junder

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I'd Buck Anything I think. Heard a few variations but that's the main one.

The same IBA that posted out leaflets naming pretty much all republicans disserdent or otherwise within the saint James area, who have also been threatened by pretty much every republicans in the saint James area and so have an axe to grind

KeithAFC

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/dissidents-interview-with-terror-splinter-group-14993952.html

Bit of a joke to be honest. The PIRA failed, they will fail too.

Bottle_of_Smoke

junder wrote: »

The same IBA that posted out leaflets naming pretty much all republicans disserdent or otherwise within the saint James area, who have also been threatened by pretty much every republicans in the saint James area and so have an axe to grind

I didn't realise they were that kind of group. i thought they were teenagers stealing cars, spraypainting gravestones and causing general mayhem.

What were the leaflets like? how old are the people involved it?

junder

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I didn't realise they were that kind of group. i thought they were teenagers stealing cars, spraypainting gravestones and causing general mayhem.

What were the leaflets like? how old are the people involved it?

They are a gang of hoodlums and criminals who have been around now for about four or five years the ages range from teenagers to mid twentiy year olds. Pipe bombs are not sophisticated devices and are well within the ablitys of even your communal garden hood to make. Republicans have threatened them on many occasions (this is dispute using them to insite trouble in July), they leaflets naming the republicans were not glossy productions just a llist of names and the organisation they belong to posted out to people in the saint James area

Bottle_of_Smoke

junder wrote: »

They are a gang of hoodlums and criminals who have been around now for about four or five years the ages range from teenagers to mid twentiy year olds. Pipe bombs are not sophisticated devices and are well within the ablitys of even your communal garden hood to make. Republicans have threatened them on many occasions (this is dispute using them to insite trouble in July), they leaflets naming the republicans were not glossy productions just a llist of names and the organisation they belong to posted out to people in the saint James area

The police really need to clamp down on them then. OnH got good publicity from chasing them out before. Were they to kill some of the members I can't see many in the local community condemning them. Perhaps the only reason they haven't is because they made use of them during the riots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y7XbLzy8dc

Good video here showing both sides of the community. Tragically I have heard the IBA have since broken the legs of the guy who made it