Undeveloped school site bought for €525,000 - now worth <100,000

The_Minister

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gilmore-wife-got-euro525000-for-school-site-now-worth-just-euro100000-2402122.html

Another example of cut-throat developers making a killing at the expense of the taxpayer.

Perhaps she was in the FF tent at the Galway races?:mad:

Gilmore wife got €525,000 for school site now worth just €100,000

THE wife of Labour leader Eamon Gilmore was paid €525,000 by the Department of Education for a site for a new school that is now worth less than €100,000.

Educationalist Carol Hanney, who is chief executive of Dun Laoghaire VEC, sold the two-and-a-half acre site she inherited from her late mother to the Office of Public Works on behalf of the Department of Education.

Yesterday the site of the proposed new school in Killimor, Co Galway, was untouched and in the same state as it was when sold almost five years ago.

Mr Gilmore refused to comment directly on the sale last night. A spokesman for the Labour leader would only say the money belonged to his wife, and not to Mr Gilmore. "She is a private citizen and it is her money, not his," he said.

The revelation could prove embarrassing for the Labour leader amid growing criticisms of how the State paid inflated prices for school sites around the country during the property boom.

His own deputy leader -- finance spokeswoman Joan Burton -- last year hit out at "property tycoons" who made "a mountain of money" from selling school sites.

Mr Gilmore yesterday criticised proposed education cutbacks in December's Budget and said his party would be "very slow" to increase college registration fees.

"Education is something we have to see as an investment," Mr Gilmore told RTE Radio.

His wife completed the sale of the land for a new national school in Killimor in 2007.

It was purchased by the Office of Public Works on behalf of the Department of Education following a formal valuation.

Galway auctioneer and former county councillor Michael Regan, who represented the Killimor area for more than 20 years, said the most the property could hope to sell for today would be somewhere between €50,000 and €100,000.

He said it would be "at the high end" to value it now at €100,000.

Mr Regan was also critical of the process that surrounded the purchase of property for state and school projects.

And it emerged yesterday that the site -- located on the Loughrea side of Killimor village -- was not even the preferred initial location for the national school.

Sources confirmed to the Irish Independent that land owned by the parish of Killimor at the opposite end of the village had been the first option for the school.

The site was sold by Ms Hanney in response to a public advertisement for land to build the new school.

The old school was built in 1964 but has long since outgrown its usefulness.

The building which accommodates 120 pupils, is overcrowded, some classes are held in prefabs, and children have to cross the schoolyard to the main building to use the toilets.

The principal's office is located in a staff toilet.

Efforts to tackle the problem began in the early 1990s.

Unsuitable

Officials at the Department of Education deemed the school location on a busy road to be unsuitable for an extension and decided a new school was required.

The project for a new school limped its way through the building programme until 2007. It was by then on its third design and the go-ahead was given to put the project out to tender.

Some weeks later, the board of management received a letter from the department stating that, after a reassessment, it would be getting an eight-classroom school using a new design.

By 2008, Killimor NS was top of the department's priority list for schools.

Everything was in place to start construction, but within weeks the department suspended the project.

It has now slumped closer to the bottom of the list and is one of 350 schools vying for funds in a lower category.

Speaking to the Irish Independent last December, principal Gerard Murray said he could not understand how a priority project could be simply "wiped out" at the stroke of a pen.

"We are not one bit nearer having a new school than we were 14 years ago," he said.

Fine Gael TD Ulick Burke, who raised the issue in the Dail, said there was no justification for the delay.

- Brian McDonald and Fiach Kelly

Irish Independent

As you can guess, this thread is a total pisstake.:)

I just wanted to take off the people who, everytime a new one of these deals comes to light, immediately imply that a developer got a handshake from FF, in return for a brown envelope.

The dirty truth is that most of these deals were silliness, incompetance and idiocy - not corruption.

Austerity

Maybe Eamon Gilmore has some nice connections at the department of Education so that they could plunder the taxpayer and enrich his family. Wouldn't surprise me. Ireland is known worldwide for its Gombeenism.

cherryghost

ugh.

Now there's something for the future Labour voters to put in their pipe and smoke. He's just like all the rest. Only his cronies are slightly different.

Pherekydes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Now there's something for the future Labour voters to put in their pipe and smoke. He's just like all the rest. Only his cronies are slightly different.

He's nothing like the rest. And this was not his transaction, either. Plus, it was completed before the bubble burst.

snubbleste

The auctioneer valuing the land is an FFer, nicely omitted from the Independent article

Rabble Rabble

snubbleste wrote: »

The auctioneer valuing the land is an FFer, nicely omitted from the Independent article

Thats not that relevant.

Educationalist Carol Hanney, who is chief executive of Dun Laoghaire VEC, sold the two-and-a-half acre site she inherited from her late mother to the Office of Public Works on behalf of the Department of Education.

Clearly that comes from a meeting where she mentions she has a site to sell, as an insider - this is the kind of insider deals which go on everywhere, and although not technically illegal..... I want to know of the OPW, or DOE did any other survey, or advertise the need for a site anywhere else?

She now has 500K - more than most people will ever save - and we have something worth 100K.

PCPhoto

its amazing how dirty politics has gotten in this country.....recent opinion polls put gilmore up there because of his vilification of all the shady dealings of recent years....only to discover he's part of them !!!

They're all the same - not a decent politician in the country that isnt after making money (or due to their contacts a family member or relation has made money..or gotten work.)

They can commiserate with Alison so

28064212

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Clearly that comes from a meeting where she mentions she has a site to sell, as an insider - this is the kind of insider deals which go on everywhere, and although not technically illegal..... I want to know of the OPW, or DOE did any other survey, or advertise the need for a site anywhere else?

She now has 500K - more than most people will ever save - and we have something worth 100K.

Way to not read the article:
"The site was sold by Ms Hanney in response to a public advertisement for land to build the new school."

PCPhoto wrote: »

its amazing how dirty politics has gotten in this country.....recent opinion polls put gilmore up there because of his vilification of all the shady dealings of recent years....only to discover he's part of them !!!

They're all the same - not a decent politician in the country that isnt after making money (or due to their contacts a family member or relation has made money..or gotten work.)

Have I missed something? Is Labour actually in government after all these years? What exactly, if anything, are you accusing the Gilmores of?

tricky D

Last week's Indo hatchet job: Pricey photoshoot for Fingal Councillors' of all parties, but Indo omits all but the Socialist Party.

This week: Standard land inherited sold off at the then market rates by private individual twisted into anti-Labour propaganda.

Standard Indo shite fare

Election is a coming. Who's next week's target?

Pherekydes

PCPhoto wrote: »

They're all the same - not a decent politician in the country that isnt after making money (or due to their contacts a family member or relation has made money..or gotten work.)

Such puerile nonsense. They are not all the same.

Sofa King Great

The indo is a rag. The site was sold 5 years ago as a development site. Gilmore's wife did no wrong here. Had she sold it to a developer she'd have got the same money. (not saying it is right but that was the market) If anyone is to blame it is the Dept of education for leaving the site to depreciate and lie idle. You can be sure there are plenty of similar sites around. This one only comes to light because of who is involved.

Austerity

Pherekydes wrote: »

Such puerile nonsense. They are not all the same.

What makes you believe that?

Pherekydes

Austerity wrote: »

What makes you believe that?

Because it's simply not true. What makes some people believe it? Do they personally know every politician? Do they personally know any politicians?

gandalf

Maybe you should quote the original article in yesterdays Tribune that this one seems to have spawned from

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/oct/31/state-paid-gilmores-wife-525000-for-school-site/

In it Gilmore clearly states the following.

Gilmore told the Sunday Tribune he had "no involvement" in the sale process, but did not comment on the price achieved for the sale.

"[Carol] had been approached a number of years earlier by the board of management of the school, who were interested in the site because of its location in the village," he said. "The site was part of land surrounding the family home, which Carol inherited from her late mother. The site was sold in response to a public advertisement seeking land for the school. The price agreed was that for which the land was professionally valued at the time."

And the OPW are quoted saying.

"All sites purchased by the OPW on behalf of the Department of Education are subject to a valuation being carried out," the OPW spokeswoman said. "The commissioners' valuer inspected the site and advised that the agreed price was reasonable."

So another non story from the Independent that they did not even break first and when they do its skewed using a FF source to make it sound worse.

Pathetic crud from the Mouthpiece of the FF party again.

K-9

Department of Education interested in acquiring Nama land for schools

The Department of Education is among the government agencies that have met Nama to outline their interest in acquiring land for schools, government sources have told the Sunday Tribune.


The department plans to spend millions on sites in the coming years, despite this newspaper having revealed that it overspent by up to €170m on land for schools between 2005 and 2009.


The HSE and the Department of the Environment have also met Nama to outline future property needs, the sources said, but specific sites have not been identified at this stage by the three bodies as Nama has not yet seized the land.



Suppose we'll get it cheaper now but we'll have no money to build on the land!

marcsignal

this or this ftw

johnmcdnl

when will all this talk stop - everyone knows the land was seriously overvalued in the boom years - but if you wanted a field to build a school on you had to pay that much because that was the going rate at the time...

over valued - check
croyonism - check
same story as will be on tommorrows paper but different politicans involved - check

can we not just stop talkin about all these deals - it's just the exact same stuff every single day - and whatever government takes over from this one - well they'll be involved in the exact same thing...

bladespin

Can't see what the fuss is over, surely it's down to the purchaser how much they paid, not the seller (who should rightly be looking for the maximum return).

Noreen1

Pfft! Mrs. Gilmore only got paid 525,000 Euro for a 2.5 acre site?
The site for our local school was bought a couple of years for a cool 1 million euro - and it doesn't even measure 2.5 acres!

Neither was the first choice for a school site - but the other seller wouldn't accept the Departments valuation. He considered that a cool 1.25 million wasn't enough.:(

Noreen

Noreen1

Noreen1 wrote: »

Pfft! Mrs. Gilmore only got paid 525,000 Euro for a 2.5 acre site?
The site for our local school was bought a couple of years for a cool 1 million euro - and it doesn't even measure 2.5 acres!

Neither was the first choice for a school site - but the other seller wouldn't accept the Departments valuation. He considered that a cool 1.25 million wasn't enough.:(

Noreen

Did they try a warm 1.25million?

Mark200

It's good to see so many people in here actually looking into the facts before making judgements... but at the same time, if it was the wife of a FF TD in exactly the same situation then I can say with great confidence that anyone who dared point out the facts would be called all sorts.

ILA

I love the way people are rushing to defend Gilmore. I can only assume these are the same people who actually think Labour are any different from the others.

You deserve all you get if your one of the people who thinks this stickyback is any different. Labour want more cuts not less.

Celly Smunt

"i sold my future for the sake of a €525,000 plot of land" olo.

gizmo

gandalf wrote: »

Maybe you should quote the original article in yesterdays Tribune that this one seems to have spawned from

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/oct/31/state-paid-gilmores-wife-525000-for-school-site/

In it Gilmore clearly states the following.

And the OPW are quoted saying.

So another non story from the Independent that they did not even break first and when they do its skewed using a FF source to make it sound worse.

Pathetic crud from the Mouthpiece of the FF party again.

You mean the same paper who posted the story about Fas overpaying for land which spawned this thread where people ripped into both FF and the government?

People seem to be ignoring the OPs correct summation of the story:

The_Minister wrote: »

As you can guess, this thread is a total pisstake.:)

I just wanted to take off the people who, everytime a new one of these deals comes to light, immediately imply that a developer got a handshake from FF, in return for a brown envelope.

The dirty truth is that most of these deals were silliness, incompetance and idiocy - not corruption.

28064212

ILA wrote: »

I love the way people are rushing to defend Gilmore. I can only assume these are the same people who actually think Labour are any different from the others.

You deserve all you get if your one of the people who thinks this stickyback is any different. Labour want more cuts not less.

What has he done wrong? Explain that, then I'll nail him to the wall with the rest of the bastards like Callely, Cooper-Flynn, Healy-Rae and Ahern, but there is not even a hint of anything being done wrong (legally or morally) by either of the Gilmores

gent9662

Gilmore always struck me as being as (if not more) sinister than Cowen or Ahern. Having him as Taoiseach would only serve to keep the corrupt era of Irish politics going for another 10 years.

gent9662

28064212 wrote: »

What has he done wrong? Explain that, then I'll nail him to the wall with the rest of the bastards like Callely, Cooper-Flynn, Healy-Rae and Ahern, but there is not even a hint of anything being done wrong (legally or morally) by either of the Gilmores

It stinks to high heaven! Why is the land deal even remotely related to government. I bet you 20 quid that the majority of posters here have not sold/dealt with the government when selling property or land. I believe he used his political position to arrange a land acquisition which he and his wife profited from. That is the issue.

Abuse of power in order to profit!

gent9662

"And it emerged yesterday that the site -- located on the Loughrea side of Killimor village -- was not even the preferred initial location for the national school."

I'm sure Mr Gilmore had a word with a few of the right people to ensure that his wife's land was number one on the list!

Pherekydes

Pherekydes wrote: »

He's nothing like the rest. And this was not his transaction, either. Plus, it was completed before the bubble burst.

It was his wife, in the VEC, selling property to the VEC for a hyper inflated price at the arse end of the bubble when everyone and their dog knew things were going down the toilet. Highly inappropriate at the very least, and it says a lot about this country that this type of transaction is even legal.

Paint it any way you want, but a vote for Gilmore is a vote for more of the same.

28064212

dclane wrote: »

It stinks to high heaven! Why is the land deal even remotely related to government. I bet you 20 quid that the majority of posters here have not sold/dealt with the government when selling property or land. I believe he used his political position to arrange a land acquisition which he and his wife profited from. That is the issue.

Abuse of power in order to profit!

Eh, you realise he isn't actually in government? And I'll bet you twenty quid that the majority of posters that have had land to sell that would be of any use to the government, have dealt with them, or at the very least considered it as an option.

The requirement for a land purchase was publically advertised. The site was independently valued. Mrs Gilmore responded. There is no suggestion that the other 'preferred' site was even approached. I have no doubt that the OPW/DoE purchasing policy is a mess, but there is not even a suggestion that anything was done differently in this case compared to any other purchases they made

gent9662

28064212 wrote: »

Eh, you realise he isn't actually in government? And I'll bet you twenty quid that the majority of posters that have had land to sell that would be of any use to the government, have dealt with them, or at the very least considered it as an option.

The requirement for a land purchase was publically advertised. The site was independently valued. Mrs Gilmore responded. There is no suggestion that the other 'preferred' site was even approached. I have no doubt that the OPW/DoE purchasing policy is a mess, but there is not even a suggestion that anything was done differently in this case compared to any other purchases they made

Is it not suspicious that the land purchase came at a time when the Labour party would not deny the possibility of a Labour Fianna Fail coalition for the next government?

28064212

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

It was his wife, in the VEC, selling property to the VEC for a hyper inflated price at the arse end of the bubble when everyone and their dog knew things were going down the toilet. Highly inappropriate at the very least, and it says a lot about this country that this type of transaction is even legal.

Paint it any way you want, but a vote for Gilmore is a vote for more of the same.

His wife may have been in the VEC, she was certainly not selling to the VEC. They have absolutely nothing to do with the Department of Education or the Office of Public Works. And the sale was agreed in 2006 and completed in 2007 at the very height of the boom. Of course it was a bad purchase, but that is solely the fault of the DoE/OPW

28064212

dclane wrote: »

Is it not suspicious that the land purchase came at a time when the Labour party would not deny the possibility of a Labour Fianna Fail coalition for the next government?

What? Are you seriously claiming that Fianna Fail said they'd make the land deal happen if Gilmore would give them his support?

gent9662

28064212 wrote: »

What? Are you seriously claiming that Fianna Fail said they'd make the land deal happen if Gilmore would give them his support?

In my opinion yes.

Rabble Rabble

28064212 wrote: »

Way to not read the article:
"The site was sold by Ms Hanney in response to a public advertisement for land to build the new school."

Public advertisement, when she is in an associated Department? Nonsense, like those civil service advertisement for jobs.

It seems the labourites here are only interested in the other side's corruption.

28064212

dclane wrote: »

In my opinion yes.

Wow, lucky she happened to own valuable (at the time) land that was in an ideal location for siting a new school that desperately needed to be built (that it hasn't been built yet is actually the real disgrace in this story, but nevermind). That really meant Gilmore could throw his weight behind FF like he did. And now that FF are desperately in need of mud to stick to Labour, it's good that they revealed their shady deal at this point in time.

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Public advertisement, when she is in an associated Department? Nonsense, like those civil service advertisement for jobs.

It seems the labourites here are only interested in the other side's corruption.

An associated department? The Dun Laoghaire VEC is not an "associated department" of the OPW. It's not even close. The OPW have a well-defined procedure for advertising for land purchases. If you can show that the procedure wasn't followed, or if you can show that someone/anyone exerted any kind of outside influence on the process, then there's a case to answer. How many sites were there in Killimor suitable for siting a school on? How many were available for sale? How many responded to the public advertisement?

And I'm far from a 'labourite' (the ****ing unions? Those shower of bastards?)

Rabble Rabble

28064212 wrote: »

An associated department? The Dun Laoghaire VEC is not an "associated department" of the OPW. It's not even close. The OPW have a well-defined procedure for advertising for land purchases. If you can show that the procedure wasn't followed, or if you can show that someone/anyone exerted any kind of outside influence on the process, then there's a case to answer. How many sites were there in Killimor suitable for siting a school on? How many were available for sale? How many responded to the public advertisement?

And I'm far from a 'labourite' (the ****ing unions? Those shower of bastards?)

The whole OPW buying land for the Dept. of Education is in itself, confusing. Why does that happen? Does it normally happen?

EDIT:

It does apparently happen as a matter of course:

http://www.opw.ie/en/OurBusinessUnits/PropertyManagementServices/SchoolSiteAcquisitionProgramme/

/ EDIT:

What she was is a employee of the Dept. Of Education, the final purchasers in this case. No idea is procedure was followed, if it was we need better procedures. I am clear about this not being illegal, but it should nevertheless not be allowed. No civil servant, or public servant ( or close relatives) should sell to the government.

How many responded to the public advertisement?

Where was the public advertisement posted, for how long, and how obvious was it?

Look we all know how sometimes advertising a public sector contract is ass-covering.

ftnbase

Gilmore - all he and his party advisors want is power.
When one considers that his wife got €500K for something that is worrth €100kk now why should he want the hassle of sorting out the mess created by FF when his family are still in the golden circle.
God bless the taxpayers.

niallers1

I must say I was shocked and a bit disturbed by this story.

I think this will do a lot of damage to Eamonn Gilmore and would even go as far to say that he should resign his position.

In the interests of fairness and transparancy no politician should be allowed to sell assets, land or services to a government department.

This as a miniumum must breach some sort of ethics code..

melekalikimaka

left wing.... what do you expect

galwayrush

No offence meant to the good people of Killimor, but the location of that site ,it was never worth anything cose to 525,000, even at the height of the Celtic Overdraft.:rolleyes: