Alchoholic father being taken advantage of by "a" pub

LegacyUser

So, just a shot in the dark, cause I have a feeling I'll need to get professional advice on this anyway.

Situation is, my father is an alchoholic, at this stage inveterate and it causes a minimum of actual fuss with the family per se. I'm not looking for help stopping him drinking.

The problem is with a particular pub in the town which he frequents that has seemingly made a habit of selling him as much drink as he can handle, which isn't a lot anymore for a variety of reasons, and then alledegdly, turns him out.

We're fortunate enough that there's -another- pub down the road that takes their responsibilities a little more seriously. When he is there, he's only served "x" amount and they make sure he gets either a lift home with someone they know, or a taxi that they know. (please don't start in about them giving him drink at all, this isn't the issue)

It's been an ongoing, but relatively recent problem that he now goes to pub A first, gets ossified, and then turns up at the door of pub B, who refuses to serve him and arrange him to go home.

So I got home tonight to find Pub B's barman and a customer trying to help my father into the house, which was locked and he'd lost the keys bla bla bla.

So...

My question is, seeing as I thought that serving a person to point of incapacity was in some way legislated against, is there any act an outside family member or agency can take against pub A to try and bar him or something. I'm not expecting a friendly welcome when I approach the owner/manager. He's very much the money grubber which I'm sure is where this policy of take their money/toss them out comes from.

Sorry if the post is a bit incoherent, I just got finished carrying him to bed.

TL;DR

Is there anyway for a third party to force a pub to bar an individual.

tenchi-fan

It's against the law for the pub to allow him to get drunk.. so when you say "sold him as much as he can handle".. if that results in him getting drunk the pub is breaking the law. You would need to phone the gardai but as he's not harming anyone it's unlikely they will care.

A word of warning though.. the pub might actually be keeping him under control. When he gets drunk they stop serving him. At least you know where he is and that the pub will only serve him to a point.

He's an alcoholic so he might resort to buying 70cl of vodka and drinking it at home, a public park, an alco mates house, etc which could result in a worse situation for your father.

I don't think scapegoating the pub is particularly helpful. All your family need to get together and get help for your father.

Overheal

Are we talking about urging him into "one more" Or forgetting to give him change? Or both?

Catari Jaguar

I don't see why pub B should have the responsibility of taking him home when he got drunk in pub A...

Miaireland

I'm a bit confused. Does you father come into pub A drunk or sober? If he is going into the pub sober and he has a few drinks and when they feel he is on his way to drunk then the pub has the right to stop serving him.

I know a pub cannot serve someone who is drunk. To be honest I don't think that pub a or b have a responsibility to get your father home. I know they have the responsibility if he was trying to sit into a car and drive home to stop him or report him to the Gardai.

I don't know about any legal method that you can force a pub to bar him. From what I always understood it is up to a pub owner.

Chinafoot

Hopingforsomeanwers wrote: »

The problem is with a particular pub in the town which he frequents that has seemingly made a habit of selling him as much drink as he can handle, which isn't a lot anymore for a variety of reasons, and then alledegdly, turns him out.

While I feel for your situation, if your father isn't drunk when he enters the premises of Pub A I don't see how they are doing anything wrong. Your father is making the decision to go to the pub and spend his money. The pub are well within their rights to serve him if he is not drunk and then ask him to leave when he is drunk.

Neither Pub A nor Pub B has to take any responsibilty for getting your father home. The fact that Pub B does it for him is simply a courtesy, but is most certainly not to be expected.

By all means approach the owner of Pub A and ask him to refuse your father as he has a drinking problem. This will then result in him going straight to Pub B as they will not only serve him drink but will also be a handy little lift home for him.

I appreciate that its easy to blame the pub, but the problem is your father's and fixing it starts with him.

LegacyUser

I know the replies of "get him help" are well meant, but to put it briefly, I'm 26, he's been an alchoholic since before I was born. In the last ten years, off the top of my head, he's been in Cuan Mhuire twice, St Patricks three times and prescribed both disulfiram and temposil after seperate hospitalizations. I appreciate the suggestion but honestly, anything we were told would or could help has been tried, not once, but several times, over the course of three decades.

Anyway, cheers for the insight folks. I've been talking to a friend who's in the legal field and they feel that since he has previously injured himself in Pub A and after leaving Pub A that they're probably in breach of the 2003 Intoxicating Liquors Bill. That and they're running a tab for my father which he thinks might be in breach of that, or another statute. So we're going to be looking into that area to try and pressure the ownership.

username123

Chinafoot wrote: »

I appreciate that its easy to blame the pub, but the problem is your father's and fixing it starts with him.

+1.

LegacyUser

Hey Op! I understand everything you are saying. I'm also 26 and in a similar situation... my mother has been though all those centres and treatments countless times and still has no interest in sobriety.

Its hard to convey to people that don't get it that you can't help him stop drinking. My mother has had alcohol induced brain damage and an aneurism and way too many other illness and injuries to mention here. And people still say to me "why don't you take the drink off her" "why do you let her drink so much" etc etc etc.

It is so frustrating I want to scream. My mother has been sold litres of gin in supermarkets and shops despite being too drunk to stand properly or speak clearly, she even collapsed on the floor of tesco one day. There's no way that I could go to every shop/off-licence/supermarket/pub in my town and tell them to stop serving her.

I'm sure you know this but alcoholics will do ANYTHING to get drink, so I dont think getting one pub to stop serving him is going to help or change anything.

I was wondering, do you want this pub punished for breaking the law or do you want your dad barred from this pub so that he will go straight to the more responsible one?

tenchi-fan

Hopingforsomeanwers wrote: »

I know the replies of "get him help" are well meant, but to put it briefly, I'm 26, he's been an alchoholic since before I was born. In the last ten years, off the top of my head, he's been in Cuan Mhuire twice, St Patricks three times and prescribed both disulfiram and temposil after seperate hospitalizations. I appreciate the suggestion but honestly, anything we were told would or could help has been tried, not once, but several times, over the course of three decades.

Anyway, cheers for the insight folks. I've been talking to a friend who's in the legal field and they feel that since he has previously injured himself in Pub A and after leaving Pub A that they're probably in breach of the 2003 Intoxicating Liquors Bill. That and they're running a tab for my father which he thinks might be in breach of that, or another statute. So we're going to be looking into that area to try and pressure the ownership.

this reminds me of the "blame canada" song!

I made the point which you chose to ignore, you can blame the pub all you like and if you create enough hassle the pub will probably stop serving your father. Your father is going to continue drinking.

If you're happy enough with his drinking and you just don't want him drinking in the public eye, why not do up the shed for him and buy him a bottle of whiskey and let him drink the head of himself?

LegacyUser

Anyway, cheers for the insight folks. I've been talking to a friend who's in the legal field and they feel that since he has previously injured himself in Pub A and after leaving Pub A that they're probably in breach of the 2003 Intoxicating Liquors Bill. That and they're running a tab for my father which he thinks might be in breach of that, or another statute. So we're going to be looking into that area to try and pressure the ownership.

Op how is this going to help your father? What do you hope/think this will achieve exactly? Hes an alcoholic, its not up to a pub owner to babysit him. If you do manage to stop him from going to pub A, well then hes just going to drink somewhere else!

It's been an ongoing, but relatively recent problem that he now goes to pub A first, gets ossified, and then turns up at the door of pub B, who refuses to serve him and arrange him to go home.

Hes already copped on that he can get more drink by going to pub A first, so what happens if you do get pub A to stop serving him, hes going to get drink elsewhere hes not stupid, at least now you know where hes drinking, get him barred from the pub and he'll prob just buy a load of drink in the local tesco and drink in a ditch somewhere which is far more dangerous.

it causes a minimum of actual fuss with the family per se. I'm not looking for help stopping him drinking.

you can blame the pub all you like and if you create enough hassle the pub will probably stop serving your father. Your father is going to continue drinking.

If you're happy enough with his drinking and you just don't want him drinking in the public eye, why not do up the shed for him and buy him a bottle of whiskey and let him drink the head of himself?

+1 this is actually a far better idea OP, seriously, if as you say he doesn't cause any problem at home when hes drinking why not let him get plastered at home or in the shed and you/the family can babysit him yourself and everyones happy?

LegacyUser

op if he gets barred from the pubs he will have more money to drink at home

barleybooley

Oh, for crying out loud, the OP said that they weren't looking to be told he should get help and after he/she outlined all the help they have gotten for him, someone comes and says it again. When are posters going to start reading threads properly before proffering advice?

Anyway. Sorry to hear about your predicament OP. Is there a reason he goes to that pub to start off with? Could he just stay out of Pub A completely of his own accord? Sorry if it seems a stupid question...

Chinafoot

barleybooley wrote: »

Oh, for crying out loud, the OP said that they weren't looking to be told he should get help and after he/she outlined all the help they have gotten for him, someone comes and says it again. When are posters going to start reading threads properly before proffering advice?

Anyway. Sorry to hear about your predicament OP. Is there a reason he goes to that pub to start off with? Could he just stay out of Pub A completely of his own accord? Sorry if it seems a stupid question...

With all due respect, posters are simply highlighting the fact that while the OP can ask for his father to be banned from Pub A, it isn't going to stop his father from drinking which is what the core issue is here. He is blaming the pub for supplying his father with alcohol and then cutting him off when he gets drunk. Others are simply pointing out that the OPs father is going to continue drinking regardless of the actions of Pub A, which by the way appears to be doing nothing wrong. They have no obligation to the OPs father.

As for the man staying out of Pub A of his own accord...why would an alcoholic stay out of a pub that is going to serve him?

Blatter

The core issue here is the fact that pub A are letting the OP's father get completely pissed every time he goes in there.

The impression I get from the OP is, they want their Father to start drinking in pub B with the hope that they won't let him get absolutely ossified and send him home before he reaches that point.

Meteoric

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

The core issue here is the fact that pub A are letting the OP's father get completely pissed every time he goes in there.

The impression I get from the OP is, they want their Father to start drinking in pub B with the hope that they won't let him get absolutely ossified and send him home before he reaches that point.

That is my reading of the original post too, the OP wants damage limitation and the father to get drunk (which is not possible to prevent for the reasons outlined) in the pub that makes sure he gets home as safe as possible and that pub getting the money for the drink, since they are prepared to go the extra mile and make the effort. Yes the OPs father is responsible for the choice but the OP wants to know if he can force the father to go to the place that will take care of him and do, even when he's not spent money there.
The "he should not be drinking, owners have no responsibility" thing has been done to death, the fact is there is a pub that will help him get home safely, the question is what can be done to make sure he goes there not the place that will take his money and just turn him out on the street or the place that will take care of him, even if he has not spent his money there.

I'm sorry OP I don't know if there is a legal remedy but it there anything else you can try to encourage him to go to Pub B? As I type that I know it sounds stupid and I know you will have tried. I hope the legal route works out for you.

eirmail

If you are in a small town where everyone knows everone, you should ask a local councillor or garda to have a friendly word wth the owner of the pub who keep serving him too much drink , and ask them to stop.

LegacyUser

Yes the OPs father is responsible for the choice but the OP wants to know if he can force the father to go to the place that will take care of him and do, even when he's not spent money there.
The "he should not be drinking, owners have no responsibility" thing has been done to death, the fact is there is a pub that will help him get home safely

But thats the point most are trying to make, yes maybe the OP can get him barred from pub A, but the OP is being very short sighted if they think this will "force the father to go to the place that will take care of him" as you put it. It most likely will just lead to the father finding another pub/drinking in a park.

the question is what can be done to make sure he goes there not the place that will take his money and just turn him out on the street or the place that will take care of him, even if he has not spent his money there.

Hes an alcoholic at the end of the day its the alcohol he cares about not where he gets the drink. Its not like he goes to either pub for "the atmosphere" or whatever, he goes purely to get wasted, as sad as that is. Take away pub A from his list of "alcohol sources" and it will just merely be substituted by the father with another "source". The point is the father does not care about getting home safely so there is absolutely no incentive for him to go to/drink in pub b when he knows they only provide him with a limited source of alcohol.

You cannot apply rational thinking to someone with an addiction.

Big Bag of Chips

blamecanada! wrote: »

there is absolutely no incentive for him to go to/drink in pub b when he knows they only provide him with a limited source of alcohol.

Very well put - he's an alcoholic, he's not stupid!

OP - you say he has been an alcoholic for over 26 years, before you were born. Asking pub A to stop serving him is not going to "change" him.

Yes, you can go in and ask them. They may well agree - but you will spend the rest of your dad's life going around to all the places in the town (and surrounding towns) that serve alcohol asking them not to serve your dad. (pubs, hotels, shops, supermarkets etc)

Which of course, you can also do. But if your dad wants to drink.. he will find a way of getting it.

dan_d

He's not trying to stop him drinking. He's simply trying to stop him from going into a pub that tosses him on the street once they take as much money as possible from him.

It's nothing to do with blame and he's not trying to change his father. Haven't you read his post? The staff of Pub B are obviously half way decent people if they're trying to make sure the guy gets home. Obviously the man can only handle so much drink, and it's better he does it there and gets home rather than getting it in Pub A and then being thrown on the road. The OP isn't blaming anyone for anything. Why would the man go drink in a park when there's another perfectly good pub down the road? They'll serve him. And from the OP's perspective, they won't throw him out and leave him there once he's had enough, or they're closing down.

I just hope for the OP's sake that they're nice enough to keep doing that. Otherwise any legal battle will have been for nothing.

Nevyn

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