If the Government want to show real leadership.........

podge3

Just had a thought that would help the government to show leadership and maybe ease the unrest that will probably follow the next budget.

All the ministers should take a paycut. Yes, I know its been done before but this time they should take a complete paycut - 100% reduction in pay (inclusive of TDs salary and expenses) for all those that sit around the cabinet table.

This would show that those in power really do care about the country and that they are at the table for no other reason than trying to dig us out of this financial mess. Most of the ministers are quite wealthy so could easily live for a couple of years without pay.

There is a lot more that should be done also like reducing the number of TDs etc but other changes would probably require constitutional changes and a referendum. I don't think its in the constitution that ministers need to be paid?

mikemac

podge3 wrote: »

I don't think its in the constitution that ministers need to be paid?

Article 15

15. The Oireachtas may make provision by law for the payment of allowances to the members of each House thereof in respect of their duties as public representatives and for the grant to them of free travelling and such other facilities (if any) in connection with those duties as the Oireachtas may determine.

You'd need to check the relevant law on payment, I don't know what that is

podge3

feelingstressed wrote: »

Article 15


You'd need to check the relevant law on payment, I don't know what that is

Thanks for that

If they have to be paid, make it a €1.

Uriel.

I am all for the Government showing leadership, sharing the pain, taking cuts etc...

but reducing TD/Ministerial pay by 100% or to €1 - :rolleyes:

RichardAnd

Ministers should be paid. Right now, they are paid too much but no one should do any job for free, recession or not. Besides, I think the sum of all TD salaries and expenses comes to about 15 million which isn't much of a dent in our bills. That's not to say ministers should get what they get but it is to say that one shouldn't get too caught up in expenses scandals when there are bigger worries.

bcmf

podge3 wrote: »

This would show that those in power really do care about the country

This is the fatal flaw of your argument. They couldnt give a toss about the rest of us.

Fighting Irish

podge3 wrote: »

Just had a thought that would help the government to show leadership and maybe ease the unrest that will probably follow the next budget.

All the ministers should take a paycut. Yes, I know its been done before but this time they should take a complete paycut - 100% reduction in pay (inclusive of TDs salary and expenses) for all those that sit around the cabinet table.

This would show that those in power really do care about the country and that they are at the table for no other reason than trying to dig us out of this financial mess. Most of the ministers are quite wealthy so could easily live for a couple of years without pay.

There is a lot more that should be done also like reducing the number of TDs etc but other changes would probably require constitutional changes and a referendum. I don't think its in the constitution that ministers need to be paid?

:rolleyes:

podge3

RichardAnd wrote: »

Ministers should be paid. Right now, they are paid too much but no one should do any job for free, recession or not. Besides, I think the sum of all TD salaries and expenses comes to about 15 million which isn't much of a dent in our bills. That's not to say ministers should get what they get but it is to say that one shouldn't get too caught up in expenses scandals when there are bigger worries.

I think you miss my point - this wouldn't be a money saving exercise.

Even if we got rid of all the members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, we would only save a few hundred million at best.

This would be to show that the ministers are not in it for the money. If they would do it for free then it would show real commitment and patriotism.

It'll never happen, of course. Most of our politicians are more like pigs at a trough than patriots.

Sleepy

I fully agree with the thrust of your point if not the detail OP.

Anyone claiming to be leading this country while attempting to 'improve our competitiveness' should be leading by example and taking *significant* paycuts and stripping themselves of any entitlements which can lead to the impression (or reality) that they're taking advantage of their position.

ninjasurfer1

podge3 wrote: »

This would be to show that the ministers are not in it for the money. If they would do it for free then it would show real commitment and patriotism.

Unfortunately, if they are incompetent at doing the job in the first place, being patriotic or not won't help matters.

I'd rather they took a salary and were good at their jobs.
(which given the state of the country they're obviously not).

JohnMc1

podge3 wrote: »

Just had a thought that would help the government to show leadership and maybe ease the unrest that will probably follow the next budget.

All the ministers should take a paycut. Yes, I know its been done before but this time they should take a complete paycut - 100% reduction in pay (inclusive of TDs salary and expenses) for all those that sit around the cabinet table.

Agreed. And Cowen too. Its disgusting that Cowen makes more than the President of the United States. They should lead by example and take a cut instead of cutting everybody else. Considering they just gave us all the middle finger the other day spending millions of euros on limos for them to go to a meeting its very unlikely.

johnboy_123

If they are seious they should cut themselfs by 20% and the same with the public sector and then if they tax at least the public can see that eveyone is now really sharing in the pain

Dorcha

If it was possible to pass legislation reducing their salaries to that of the average industrial wage, it would certainly be interesting to see which of them would stay and which of them would go. If the proposition was put to them, you can imagine all the whining there would be about being able to make more working in the private sector (I’ve heard it numerous times).


I remember Gay Byrne saying years ago (in relation to TDs’ salaries, that “if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys”. Well, what do you know, here we are (the taxpayer) paying massive salaries and we’re still getting monkeys. It should be obvious to anyone that if you pay big salaries, your chances of getting intelligent, honest, hard-working people are – at the most – only 50/50, but the chances are high that you will attract a lot of greedy people.


The only drawback to the proposed plan is, of course, that it’s the TDs who pass legislation, and it’s unknown for Turkeys to vote for Christmas.

Einhard

podge3 wrote: »

This would be to show that the ministers are not in it for the money. If they would do it for free then it would show real commitment and patriotism.

It'll never happen, of course. Most of our politicians are more like pigs at a trough than patriots.

Well why stop at politicians? Surely all doctors, all nurses, all teachers, all workers in the PS should also do their patriotic duty and work a year for free? You do realise that, while ministers get paid far too much, they do have bills to pay for the rest of us. It's great to be patriotic, but not when the bank comes along to repossess your house because you're foregone a year's pay out of love for the motherland. Silly suggestion IMO.

Einhard

Dorcha wrote: »

If it was possible to pass legislation reducing their salaries to that of the average industrial wage, it would certainly be interesting to see which of them would stay and which of them would go. If the proposition was put to them, you can imagine all the whining there would be about being able to make more working in the private sector (I’ve heard it numerous times).

I think that most politicians view their roles as something of a vocation, and I believe that, by and large, they are quite genuine in this. Why else, for example, would the likes of Lenihan and McDowell, both barristers, or Leo Varadker and James O' Reilly, both doctors, take such drastic cuts in their salaries that becoming a TD involves? However, even vocations have to take account of practical realities. Teaching for many is a vocation, but even the most dedicated teacher would hesitate to work for the average industrial wage. And it's the same with politicians. I don't think that's unpatriotic or in any way duplicitous. Few people (Joe Higgins excepted) would be willing to accept such a drastic cut in salary, vocation or not.

flutered

Einhard wrote: »

I think that most politicians view their roles as something of a vocation, and I believe that, by and large, they are quite genuine in this. Why else, for example, would the likes of Lenihan and McDowell, both barristers, or Leo Varadker and James O' Reilly, both doctors, take such drastic cuts in their salaries that becoming a TD involves? However, even vocations have to take account of practical realities. Teaching for many is a vocation, but even the most dedicated teacher would hesitate to work for the average industrial wage. And it's the same with politicians. I don't think that's unpatriotic or in any way duplicitous. Few people (Joe Higgins excepted) would be willing to accept such a drastic cut in salary, vocation or not.

POWER

doolox

It should be possible to set a standard rate for the job commensurate with what is paid internationally, given the size of the country (small) the size of the economy (small and shrinking) and the cultural mix (monolithic and uncomplicated) and the relative freedom from war or disasters of a natural kind.

The guys up North should get higher pay for dealing with a complicated cultural mix, a potentially violent political setup etc.

There is NO WAY that our Taoiseach should be paid more than Barack.......

Yankee Doodle land is more than 300million people versus Irelands 4 million.
Much bigger economy and world presence
Much more complicated cultural setup, hispanics, people of colour etc.
Does this mean that Brian gets more money than Merkel or Sarkozy,, leaders of fairly decent-sized countries?????

RichardAnd

doolox wrote: »

It should be possible to set a standard rate for the job commensurate with what is paid internationally, given the size of the country (small) the size of the economy (small and shrinking) and the cultural mix (monolithic and uncomplicated) and the relative freedom from war or disasters of a natural kind.

The guys up North should get higher pay for dealing with a complicated cultural mix, a potentially violent political setup etc.

There is NO WAY that our Taoiseach should be paid more than Barack.......

Yankee Doodle land is more than 300million people versus Irelands 4 million.
Much bigger economy and world presence
Much more complicated cultural setup, hispanics, people of colour etc.
Does this mean that Brian gets more money than Merkel or Sarkozy,, leaders of fairly decent-sized countries?????

Would you be interested to know that many US presidents actually refused their salaries?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dorcha

Einhard wrote: »

I think that most politicians view their roles as something of a vocation, and I believe that, by and large, they are quite genuine in this. Why else, for example, would the likes of Lenihan and McDowell, both barristers, or Leo Varadker and James O' Reilly, both doctors, take such drastic cuts in their salaries that becoming a TD involves? However, even vocations have to take account of practical realities. Teaching for many is a vocation, but even the most dedicated teacher would hesitate to work for the average industrial wage. And it's the same with politicians. I don't think that's unpatriotic or in any way duplicitous. Few people (Joe Higgins excepted) would be willing to accept such a drastic cut in salary, vocation or not.

I can answer your question, Einhard, with just one word: power. Power is a much more valuable comodity than money, and you can use it to get money, anyway. Yes, I think they're greedy and arrogant, but I would never make the mistake of thinking they're stupid.

Edit: Ah, I see Flutered got in ahead of me.