Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

I was asked for my religion today..

17810121325

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    None of that has anything at all whatso ever to do with you being asked "what is your religion" Nothing.

    All hospitals will evaluate what they do against their ethos, whether it is catholic or secular. Ethics is a part of medicine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    None of that has anything at all whatso ever to do with you being asked "what is your religion" Nothing.

    All hospitals will evaluate what they do against their ethos, whether it is catholic or secular. Ethics is a part of medicine.

    They auto assumed I was religious and also the hospital put lung cancer patients in danger as per news report, that is very worrying in this day and age from a public hospital.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    No one auto assumed anything, you would have been asked that in any hospital; catholic, protestant or secular.

    And I repeat, all hospitals have a code of ethics (ethos) and any trial like that would be scrutinised for it's compatability. The trial had nothing at all to do with your trip to the fracture clinic and the question that offended you so deeply.

    Are you suggesting that you have been treated in a lesser way than catholic patients?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    gurramok wrote: »
    The whole board has to enforce a Catholic ethos, why has there been no change if there is only 1 priest and 1 nun on board? I suspect rightly that the professionals are strong religious people too and are happy with the status quo.

    http://www.mater.ie/aboutus/mmcuh.htm


    As I suspected. No surprise there.:mad:

    Who CARES (Barring you of course) if said professionals are strongly religious people? They do a job and they are competent enough to do it well. You do not know how a hospital is to be run, they do. What do you mean "no change"? Have the Mater hospital been refusing non Catholics recently? Have they been discriminating against anyone? Do they hire only Catholic doctors?

    The answer to all the above questions is no. Therefore there is no issue with the board. The issue lies entirely within your head.
    gurramok wrote: »
    No. All inclusive would be nice. See above post regarding the board.
    The way you phrased that post makes it sound as if you're saying all the staff of the Mater hospital are Catholic. Even if they were all Catholic and they are not, that does nothave any effect whatsoever upon the service they provide you.

    Why have an religious ethos then if there is nothing to worry about?:confused:
    The hospital was founded and was built by a Religious organisation. All hospitals around the world have a background and a history. No one's going to erase it just because some guy on boards.ie gets hot under the collar when he's asked a four word question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    gurramok wrote: »
    They auto assumed I was religious and also the hospital put lung cancer patients in danger as per news report, that is very worrying in this day and age from a public hospital.
    They didn't auto assume anything. If they indeed did have a Religious bias they would have asked you "What's your parish?" or "What's your denomination?" not just "What's your Religion?".

    They have their code of ethics and if you don't like their code of ethics I recommend you go to another hospital that caters for those that get easily offended by the phrasing of questions.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Go to a hospital without a code of ethics and see how you get on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    No one auto assumed anything, you would have been asked that in any hospital; catholic, protestant or secular.

    And I repeat, all hospitals have a code of ethics (ethos) and any trial like that would be scrutinised for it's compatability. The trial had nothing at all to do with your trip to the fracture clinic and the question that offended you so deeply.

    Are you suggesting that you have been treated in a lesser way than catholic patients?

    I dunno, it was a very fast checkup. You maybe are onto something ;)

    Not all hospitals have a religious ethos. Tallaght hospital does not have a Catholic ethos.
    They didn't auto assume anything. If they indeed did have a Religious bias they would have asked you "What's your parish?" or "What's your denomination?" not just "What's your Religion?".

    They have their code of ethics and if you don't like their code of ethics I recommend you go to another hospital that caters for those that get easily offended by the phrasing of questions.

    Ask if I had a religion in the first place, said that already!
    and..
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Go to a hospital without a code of ethics and see how you get on.

    I can't go to another hospital, the GP sent me there as its the specialist one and I should not be forced to go somewhere else as its a public hospital for the public.
    Who CARES (Barring you of course) if said professionals are strongly religious people? They do a job and they are competent enough to do it well. You do not know how a hospital is to be run, they do. What do you mean "no change"? Have the Mater hospital been refusing non Catholics recently? Have they been discriminating against anyone? Do they hire only Catholic doctors?

    The answer to all the above questions is no. Therefore there is no issue with the board. The issue lies entirely within your head.

    No, you said earlier it had no affect and now you say it does, so make up your mind!
    Why have them then enforcing a Catholic ethos where it has not changed? Where are the Protestant doctors and professors on the board?!
    The way you phrased that post makes it sound as if you're saying all the staff of the Mater hospital are Catholic. Even if they were all Catholic and they are not, that does nothave any effect whatsoever upon the service they provide you.

    The hospital was founded and was built by a Religious organisation. All hospitals around the world have a background and a history. No one's going to erase it just because some guy on boards.ie gets hot under the collar when he's asked a four word question.

    See above, why keep that ethos in this day and age? Everyone has different religions and no religion so why keep the ethos?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Define "Catholic Ethos" for us Gurramok...

    Not all hospitals have a cathoilc ethos but they do all have an ethos.By and large they don't differ greatly.

    The only time it would be an issue is for things like abortion and euthansia. As both are illegal here than it is moot.

    Again, I will ask you:
    In what way did the ethos of the mater impact on you negatively during your check up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Ollchailin


    Mods, PLEASE close this thread, it's absolutely ridiculous that it's gone on this long.

    I understand that the OP believes that religion should not be part of the running of a hospital. That's probably a view many people hold, and whilst it doesn't bother me who the hell runs a hospital so long as I get the medical care I need, I understand that some people would rather religious orders were not involved in the running of the hospital.

    But what I cannot understand is how he felt that it was wrong that he was asked if he had a religion- sure, it would be an odd question to be asked if he was filling in an application form, or a tax form, or any other form under the sun. But in a hospital- where it can become important in a matter of life or death (even if not at first admission, but perhaps in a later admission to hospital)- then it is absolutely ridiculous that the OP was put out about being asked this. Surely he can see that whilst it may be of no significance to him in his hour of need, it may be to others- in fact, many others.

    As regards the objection to the phrasing of the question- i.e. being asked what religion he is as opposed to does he have a religion, then this is simply pedantic at its lowest form, and being awkward purely for the sake of it. That's like saying to my non-driving friends "What car do you drive"- why should people assume that all adults drive? I daresay, however, that the OP would not be as pedantic about a question of that sort, because it does not have a connection to religion, and let's face it, this is the crux of his issue- a question about anything else is fair game, but not religion, because he doesn't have a belief. Except that of course that he's told us that he believes he doesn't believe in anything- which isn't at all pedantic, is it? Oh nooo.... :rolleyes:

    OP, we get it- you didn't like to be asked what religion you were. You don't like the assumption that you have a religion. But there's being P.C. and there's being P.C to the point of ridiculousness. With how easily offended you were, well- sorry, but you are being ridiculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Define "Catholic Ethos" for us Gurramok...

    Not all hospitals have a cathoilc ethos but they do all have an ethos.By and large they don't differ greatly.

    The only time it would be an issue is for things like abortion and euthansia. As both are illegal here than it is moot.

    Again, I will ask you:
    In what way did the ethos of the mater impact on you negatively during your check up?

    Catholic ethos as upholding the fundamental teachings of the Catholic church. Every employee has to abide by that in the hospital. Why in this era is that still allowed in a secular society?

    To answer your question, they auto assumed I was religious for the checkup. They should of asked 'what religion was i' first.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Ollchailin wrote: »
    Mods, PLEASE close this thread, it's absolutely ridiculous that it's gone on this long.

    I understand that the OP believes that religion should not be part of the running of a hospital. That's probably a view many people hold, and whilst it doesn't bother me who the hell runs a hospital so long as I get the medical care I need, I understand that some people would rather religious orders were not involved in the running of the hospital.

    But what I cannot understand is how he felt that it was wrong that he was asked if he had a religion- sure, it would be an odd question to be asked if he was filling in an application form, or a tax form, or any other form under the sun. But in a hospital- where it can become important in a matter of life or death (even if not at first admission, but perhaps in a later admission to hospital)- then it is absolutely ridiculous that the OP was put out about being asked this. Surely he can see that whilst it may be of no significance to him in his hour of need, it may be to others- in fact, many others.

    As regards the objection to the phrasing of the question- i.e. being asked what religion he is as opposed to does he have a religion, then this is simply pedantic at its lowest form, and being awkward purely for the sake of it. That's like saying to my non-driving friends "What car do you drive"- why should people assume that all adults drive? I daresay, however, that the OP would not be as pedantic about a question of that sort, because it does not have a connection to religion, and let's face it, this is the crux of his issue- a question about anything else is fair game, but not religion, because he doesn't have a belief. Except that of course that he's told us that he believes he doesn't believe in anything- which isn't at all pedantic, is it? Oh nooo.... :rolleyes:

    OP, we get it- you didn't like to be asked what religion you were. You don't like the assumption that you have a religion. But there's being P.C. and there's being P.C to the point of ridiculousness. With how easily offended you were, well- sorry, but you are being ridiculous.

    I find it rather peculiar that the religious posters want to close the thread, trying to put down anyone trying to question the status quo of certain Catholic run hospitals. It does come across as like attempted censorship of dissident views :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Ollchailin wrote: »
    Mods, PLEASE close this thread, it's absolutely ridiculous that it's gone on this long.

    I understand that the OP believes that religion should not be part of the running of a hospital. That's probably a view many people hold, and whilst it doesn't bother me who the hell runs a hospital so long as I get the medical care I need, I understand that some people would rather religious orders were not involved in the running of the hospital.

    But what I cannot understand is how he felt that it was wrong that he was asked if he had a religion- sure, it would be an odd question to be asked if he was filling in an application form, or a tax form, or any other form under the sun. But in a hospital- where it can become important in a matter of life or death (even if not at first admission, but perhaps in a later admission to hospital)- then it is absolutely ridiculous that the OP was put out about being asked this. Surely he can see that whilst it may be of no significance to him in his hour of need, it may be to others- in fact, many others.

    As regards the objection to the phrasing of the question- i.e. being asked what religion he is as opposed to does he have a religion, then this is simply pedantic at its lowest form, and being awkward purely for the sake of it. That's like saying to my non-driving friends "What car do you drive"- why should people assume that all adults drive? I daresay, however, that the OP would not be as pedantic about a question of that sort, because it does not have a connection to religion, and let's face it, this is the crux of his issue- a question about anything else is fair game, but not religion, because he doesn't have a belief. Except that of course that he's told us that he believes he doesn't believe in anything- which isn't at all pedantic, is it? Oh nooo.... :rolleyes:

    OP, we get it- you didn't like to be asked what religion you were. You don't like the assumption that you have a religion. But there's being P.C. and there's being P.C to the point of ridiculousness. With how easily offended you were, well- sorry, but you are being ridiculous.
    I'm a non driver and I'm asked this all of the time. You know what, it really shocks me that people would make this assumption! I'm of to start a thread>>>>>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Ollchailin wrote: »
    I understand that the OP believes that religion should not be part of the running of a hospital. That's probably a view many people hold, and whilst it doesn't bother me who the hell runs a hospital so long as I get the medical care I need, I understand that some people would rather religious orders were not involved in the running of the hospital.

    But what I cannot understand is how he felt that it was wrong that he was asked if he had a religion- sure, it would be an odd question to be asked if he was filling in an application form, or a tax form, or any other form under the sun. But in a hospital- where it can become important in a matter of life or death (even if not at first admission, but perhaps in a later admission to hospital)- then it is absolutely ridiculous that the OP was put out about being asked this. Surely he can see that whilst it may be of no significance to him in his hour of need, it may be to others- in fact, many others.

    I was agreeing with you up until you started banging on about "P.C." :(

    The thread does fail somewhat on the grounds of coupling some legitimate concerns over serious issues with some rather silly ones
    even if not at first admission, but perhaps in a later admission to hospital
    Nobody ever changes their beliefs regarding religion ?

    Sardonicat wrote: »
    The only time it would be an issue is for things like abortion and euthansia. .

    An example has already been cited earlier in the thread which involved neither abortion and euthansia. Do try and keep up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    gurramok wrote: »
    I find it rather peculiar that the religious posters want to close the thread, trying to put down anyone trying to question the status quo of certain Catholic run hospitals. It does come across as like attempted censorship of dissident views :mad:

    No it doesn't. You're reaching now and you know it.

    We only want this thread closed because it's clear you're trolling and making a big deal out of nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    gurramok wrote: »
    Catholic ethos as upholding the fundamental teachings of the Catholic church. Every employee has to abide by that in the hospital. Why in this era is that still allowed in a secular society?

    To answer your question, they auto assumed I was religious for the checkup. They should of asked 'what religion was i' first.
    Yeah, stuff like not killing the patients, not letting someone suffer, not treating anyone differently based on ther religious/lack of religious beliefs. Crazy stuff like that? All hospitals have an ethos like that.

    Again, how did their ethos effect your treatment negatively?

    Why do you assume that those of us not agreeing with you are catholic? I'm not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    No it doesn't. You're reaching now and you know it.

    We only want this thread closed because it's clear you're trolling and making a big deal out of nothing.

    Thats some accusation there Audrey. You have no evidence to support your claim. I have kept on topic at all times and answered all questions from posters from all walks of religious persuasion;)
    Sardonicat wrote:
    Yeah, stuff like not killing the patients, not letting someone suffer, not treating anyone differently based on ther religious/lack of religious beliefs. Crazy stuff like that? All hospitals have an ethos like that.

    Again, how did their ethos effect your treatment negatively?

    Why do you assume that those of us not agreeing with you are catholic? I'm not.

    How do I know I got A1 treatment? I do wonder if i answered RC if I had received superior treatment especially on reading that horror story of the lung cancer patients.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    We only want this thread closed because it's clear you're trolling .

    If you believe this to be the case you could just ignore the thread and let it sink into obscurity over a few hours/days.

    The OP may be overreacting somewhat but I dont see any evidence of trolling (on their part anyway)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    gurramok wrote: »
    Yes, I was visiting a clinic at the Mater Hospital and upon regging ya wan behind the counter went through my details and landed me with this bomb of 'what religion I am'.

    I just went 'wtf' in my head and after an awkward slience said 'err no religion'. Then she just wobbled her head and promptly kept typing into her pc.

    Now, what frigging relevance is my religion in order to get treatment in a hospital?:mad:

    Thought Ireland was in the 21st century and why would a hospital care about my religious beliefs?:confused:
    gurramok wrote: »
    Catholic ethos as upholding the fundamental teachings of the Catholic church. Every employee has to abide by that in the hospital. Why in this era is that still allowed in a secular society?

    To answer your question, they auto assumed I was religious for the checkup. They should of asked 'what religion was i' first.
    Eh, they did, according to your very first post. This was your problem. Now it's the ethos that you can't define in any spcific way and have not been able to explain how this ethos resulted in your health check being of a poor standard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    gurramok wrote: »
    Thats some accusation there Audrey. You have no evidence to support your claim. I have kept on topic at all times and answered all questions from posters from all walks of religious persuasion;)



    How do I know I got A1 treatment? I do wonder if i answered RC if I had received superior treatment especially on reading that horror story of the lung cancer patients.
    As explained, all hospital boards will check if a trial is compatible with the ethos of the hospital, secular or otherwise, and rightly so. Did it ever occur to you that the participants of the trial may not wish to particiapte if it was found to go against their own ethics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Ollchailin


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    I was agreeing with you up until you started banging on about "P.C." :(

    I'd hardly say I was "banging on" about it, given I only mentioned it in one sentence- but in all fairness, the OP was offended about being asked his religion instead of asking if he had a religion.. If we constantly have to pussyfoot around how we phrase questions for fear of offending someone, then I do believe that this is P.C. gone over the top. I know the term "P.C." can be over-used, but I honestly do believe that the OP is looking to be accommodated to such an extent that it becomes farcical.

    Now I better not mention it again, lest I be accused of banging on about it.

    Speaking of banging on, kind of reminds me of the OP........


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Eh, they did, according to your very first post. This was your problem. Now it's the ethos that you can't define in any spcific way and have not been able to explain how this ethos resulted in your health check being of a poor standard.

    That word 'first' should of been the word 'second',a typo. They never asked 'Do I have a religion' which i'm sure I stated this in countless posts. I brought out the ethos to back up my posts and found evidence to support it as per quoted online articles.
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    As explained, all hospital boards will check if a trial is compatible with the ethos of the hospital, secular or otherwise, and rightly so. Did it ever occur to you that the participants of the trial may not wish to particiapte if it was found to go against their own ethics.

    Why oh why would they participate in something against their will? Their trial had medical approval and it was blocked by religious members of the board.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Ollchailin wrote: »
    I do believe that this is P.C. gone over the top. I know the term "P.C." can be over-used, b

    What are your thoughts on the gay agenda (TM)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Ollchailin


    gurramok wrote: »
    I find it rather peculiar that the religious posters want to close the thread, trying to put down anyone trying to question the status quo of certain Catholic run hospitals. It does come across as like attempted censorship of dissident views :mad:

    How do you know whether we're religious or not? I'd say there's a variety of beliefs amongst us, including your fellow atheists. I have no problem with you believing that there should be no connection between religious orders and hospitals. In fact, it wouldn't bother me if the religious orders pulled out in the morning, so long as the care I'd get in the hospital would be the same.

    The reason why I want the thread closed is that a) it's going around in circles so we're getting nowhere, and b) no matter what anybody says to you, you will continue to be offended to be asked what your religion is. Whilst I believe personally that this is pedantic, this is a matter for the hospital you attended- none of us here can prevent this from happening again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭demag


    OP if it offends you so much why the f*ck did you go to a catholic hospital in the first place. Would you ever just cop the f*ck on and get a life.
    Seriously is this all you have to worry about or are you just one of these people who goes around looking for things to take offence to.
    You're just bringing this thread round in circles the same as with the integration thread where you kept beating on about foreigners speaking their own language in their homes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭Ollchailin


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    What are your thoughts on the gay agenda (TM)

    What?? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    gurramok wrote: »
    That word 'first' should of been the word 'second',a typo. They never asked 'Do I have a religion' which i'm sure I stated this in countless posts. I brought out the ethos to back up my posts and found evidence to support it as per quoted online articles.



    Why oh why would they participate in something against their will? Their trial had medical approval and it was blocked by religious members of the board.
    Spell out this ethos for us, I wanna see it.
    Any board in any hospital could have blocked the trial to ensure it was in keeping with the ethos of the hospital. That is part of the function of a board.This ensures that patients aren't involved in a trial that would be unethical, or would offend their ethics in anyway.Just as easily could have happened in Tallaght hosp.

    BTW, did the trial go ahead?

    Again, explain how your treatment was adversely affected by your response to the offensive question? Do you have any proof. If you genuinely believe this to be the case then why are you not seeking legal advice, or writing to the ombudsman instead of posting on boards?

    Why do you assume all of us disagreeing with you are religious? You haven't answered that either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Ollchailin wrote: »
    How do you know whether we're religious or not? I'd say there's a variety of beliefs amongst us, including your fellow atheists. I have no problem with you believing that there should be no connection between religious orders and hospitals. In fact, it wouldn't bother me if the religious orders pulled out in the morning, so long as the care I'd get in the hospital would be the same.

    The reason why I want the thread closed is that a) it's going around in circles so we're getting nowhere, and b) no matter what anybody says to you, you will continue to be offended to be asked what your religion is. Whilst I believe personally that this is pedantic, this is a matter for the hospital you attended- none of us here can prevent this from happening again.

    They are very sensitive when asked why there the Catholic ethos is maintained in the hospital. Only strict Catholics can defend that as if you think people of other persuasions would defend it is like asking a Rabbi to defend a Muslim ethos!
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Spell out this ethos for us, I wanna see it.
    Any board in any hospital could have blocked the trial to ensure it was in keeping with the ethos of the hospital. That is part of the function of a board.This ensures that patients aren't involved in a trial that would be unethical, or would offend their ethics in anyway.Just as easily could have happened in Tallaght hosp.

    BTW, did the trial go ahead?

    Again, explain how your treatment was adversely affected by your response to the offensive question? Do you have any proof. If you genuinely believe this to be the case then why are you not seeking legal advice, or writing to the ombudsman instead of posting on boards?

    Why do you assume all of us disagreeing with you are religious? You haven't answered that either.

    Ethos as in "teachings, standards, doctrines, laws, and norms of the Catholic Church", thats the definition.
    It was blocked in the Mater because the patients had offended Catholic values. How would it have been blocked at Tallaght, you have to explain that one.
    Maybe I should write to them about it, thanks for the encouragement :)

    See the answer to Ollchailin's post for your last question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    I know what the word "ethos" means. What I want to know if you are familiar with the wording of the Mater's ethos.

    If it went against the ethos of tallaght hosp it would similarly have been blocked. Did it eventually get the go ahead?

    How were you treated differently as a result of you saying "no religion". I'm waiting to here it.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    gurramok wrote: »
    They are very sensitive when asked why there the Catholic ethos is maintained in the hospital. Only strict Catholics can defend that as if you think people of other persuasions would defend it is like asking a Rabbi to defend a Muslim ethos!

    I am yet to see evidence of these claims of yours. I think you're trying to imagine that everyone is religious to justify them not agreeing with you. The only person who has tried to bring the posters' personal beliefs are yourself. No one else has mentioned their beliefs without being given provocation first as far as I can see.

    Start reading all these posts properly and not just taking from them what you want them to say to suit yourself.


    Why am I even bothering? It's like talking to a sulking child...


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    I'm not a catholic, and while I think that religion should be entirely private and have no place in public life I can tell you that I have worked in the NHS in the UK and a catholic hosp here. And the "ethos" of the latter did not affect any one adversely. In fact, in terms of ethics, I saw no difference except in the case of rescusitation (everyone who arrested in catholic hosps, not the case in nhs). And no one gave a **** that I was not religious,that some of the staff were protestant, muslim etc., if the patients were not catholic etc. So I can categorically state, Gurramok, you are talking ****e!


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I'm not a catholic, and while I think that religion should be entirely private and have no place in public life I can tell you that I have worked in the NHS in the UK and a catholic hosp here. And the "ethos" of the latter did not affect any one adversely. In fact, in terms of ethics, I saw no difference except in the case of rescusitation (everyone who arrested in catholic hosps, not the case in nhs). And no one gave a **** that I was not religious,that some of the staff were protestant, muslim etc., if the patients were not catholic etc. So I can categorically state, Gurramok, you are talking ****e!

    Out of curiosity Sardonicat, for the sake of this thread. Was the dreaded "what religion are you" question asked in those hospitals?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,441 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    In the NHS? YES! In fact, part of the patient admission form and nursing care plan included a section on the spiritual needs of the patients. This is standard nursing practice everywhere AFIK. If someone said atheist it was respected, in the catholic hosp also.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    gurramok wrote: »

    How do I know I got A1 treatment? I do wonder if i answered RC if I had received superior treatment especially on reading that horror story of the lung cancer patients.

    I'm not Catholic, I answered as such on my admissions form in St. Vincents (a Catholic Hospital) and was given the best care afforded to anyone in the world.

    I was admitted there specifically because they have one of the best neurology Depts in the world, the fact that I am not a Catholic made no difference in whether or not I was admitted. I was admitted into the Neurology dept's ward because I needed their care, I was admitted under the care of Prof. Tubridy because he is one of the best people in the world in his field and I would benefit from his care.

    One year later and I am almost 100% back to normal, I have received and continue to receive the best care possible to be despite the fact that I didn't answer "Catholic" to the question "what is your religion" which was asked of me when I was first admitted. Your "argument" is ****ing retarded. Seriously, give up, you do nothing but make yourself seem like a paranoid idiot.
    Time to give up the goat and accept that you are either (a) a troll or (b) an idiot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Gurramok, let me give you some history on me.

    I've been in and out of hospitals many times over the course of my 27 years.

    Up until I was 18, my religion was always given as Presbyterian. My belief changed (well not really, but didn't have to attend with de Mammy and de Daddy), and since then, when I've been asked, I've either stated none or agnostic.

    Never have I experienced poor care in hospitals due to this. (Waiting times are horrific, but thats the HSE for you.)

    Not once has who is on the board of directors of a hospital affected me or my care, nor has their choice of beliefs.

    Now your original question of "Why was I asked?" has been answered, and you seem more pissed about the fact that there are Catholics on the board than anything else. You are coming across to me as having a bit of a hate on for Catholics, or more so the Catholic church. You ****e on about respecting your beliefs, but you seem intent on them respecting yours so much that you fail to see there are other people around you that hold different beliefs.

    Why are there Catholics on the board of the Mater hospital? Because it was founded by Catholics. Simple. Thats a bit like asking why do Polish people run the shops that sell Polish goods.

    Great Ormond St in London has the Royal Family as Patrons of their hospital, does that make it a Church of England hospital? Does it matter?

    I'd vote for this to be locked as well, and that goes against your belief that only religious people want this locked. I'm sorry, you have repeatedly come across as stamping your feet and huffing. I'm out, as they say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I know what the word "ethos" means. What I want to know if you are familiar with the wording of the Mater's ethos.

    If it went against the ethos of tallaght hosp it would similarly have been blocked. Did it eventually get the go ahead?

    How were you treated differently as a result of you saying "no religion". I'm waiting to here it.

    Please tell us the Mater's ethos and how that is different from a Catholic ethos despite them espousing the Catholic ethos? Have to hear this one.

    And how would it be any different from Tallaght who have no Catholic ethos?

    As regards my treatment, I ain't a specialist in the field I was treated in so how would I know that the treatment was top notch?:confused:
    I am yet to see evidence of these claims of yours. I think you're trying to imagine that everyone is religious to justify them not agreeing with you. The only person who has tried to bring the posters' personal beliefs are yourself. No one else has mentioned their beliefs without being given provocation first as far as I can see.

    Start reading all these posts properly and not just taking from them what you want them to say to suit yourself.

    Tis strange than non-Catholic posters are up front about their beliefs and yet those posters who spring to the defence of the Catholic ethos curse at my posts and yet continue to say they are not Catholic?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Gurramok, let me give you some history on me.

    I've been in and out of hospitals many times over the course of my 27 years.

    Up until I was 18, my religion was always given as Presbyterian. My belief changed (well not really, but didn't have to attend with de Mammy and de Daddy), and since then, when I've been asked, I've either stated none or agnostic.

    Never have I experienced poor care in hospitals due to this. (Waiting times are horrific, but thats the HSE for you.)

    Not once has who is on the board of directors of a hospital affected me or my care, nor has their choice of beliefs.

    Now your original question of "Why was I asked?" has been answered, and you seem more pissed about the fact that there are Catholics on the board than anything else. You are coming across to me as having a bit of a hate on for Catholics, or more so the Catholic church. You ****e on about respecting your beliefs, but you seem intent on them respecting yours so much that you fail to see there are other people around you that hold different beliefs.

    Why are there Catholics on the board of the Mater hospital? Because it was founded by Catholics. Simple. Thats a bit like asking why do Polish people run the shops that sell Polish goods.

    Great Ormond St in London has the Royal Family as Patrons of their hospital, does that make it a Church of England hospital? Does it matter?

    I'd vote for this to be locked as well, and that goes against your belief that only religious people want this locked. I'm sorry, you have repeatedly come across as stamping your feet and huffing. I'm out, as they say.

    I don't hate Catholics nor any other religious adherents. Why are there no Presbyterians or agnostics for example on the board? All I got was an answer saying 'they founded it' and 'its tradition', and yet I give an example where such tradition interfered with science and some posters have no problem with this.:eek:

    You must see the irony in all this?:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    I can't believe I'm getting back into this again.

    How do you know there are none on the board. Have you asked?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    gurramok wrote: »
    Please tell us the Mater's ethos and how that is different from a Catholic ethos despite them espousing the Catholic ethos? Have to hear this one.

    And how would it be any different from Tallaght who have no Catholic ethos?

    As regards my treatment, I ain't a specialist in the field I was treated in so how would I know that the treatment was top notch?:confused:



    Tis strange than non-Catholic posters are up front about their beliefs and yet those posters who spring to the defence of the Catholic ethos curse at my posts and yet continue to say they are not Catholic?

    I am Catholic, quite happy to be Catholic, have no problem with being Catholic. I also have no problem with you not believeing in God. What I do have a problem with is your bigotry towards the peoples beliefs while, as the other poster said, waffling on about yours being disrespected. I don't think you are a troll because to be a troll would suggest a modicum of intelligence and that seems to be sadly lacking in your case. Nobodies treatment in a hospital is affected by them expressing a religious preference, and in a country that is still predominately Catholic its hardly a surprise that the odd Catholic might appear on the odd board here and there is it.Should I take offence if somebody didn't ask me what my religion is because I am religious? No. So get over it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    I can't believe I'm getting back into this again.

    How do you know there are none on the board. Have you asked?

    As stated earlier, they're all Catholic.
    Each of these Boards consists both of members of the Congregation and members of the lay community with a range of different professional expertise and experience.
    I am Catholic, quite happy to be Catholic, have no problem with being Catholic. I also have no problem with you not believeing in God. What I do have a problem with is your bigotry towards the peoples beliefs while, as the other poster said, waffling on about yours being disrespected. I don't think you are a troll because to be a troll would suggest a modicum of intelligence and that seems to be sadly lacking in your case. Nobodies treatment in a hospital is affected by them expressing a religious preference, and in a country that is still predominately Catholic its hardly a surprise that the odd Catholic might appear on the odd board here and there is it.Should I take offence if somebody didn't ask me what my religion is because I am religious? No. So get over it.

    I ain't a bigot. Just because I question the status of a public hospital that has a Catholic ethos which serves the general public where the populace has a range of religions or no religion, I get accusations of bigotry :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    gurramok wrote: »
    As stated earlier, they're all Catholic.




    I ain't a bigot. Just because I question the status of a public hospital that has a Catholic ethos which serves the general public where the populace has a range of religions or no religion, I get accusations of bigotry :eek:

    If I am in a predominately Muslim country and the hospital has a muslim ethos, I wouldn't complain. Same with a predominately jewish society, etc, etc, etc. Once it doesn't impinge on care who the hell cares. You have seriously little to worry about in life is this is of such a concern to you, when my loved ones need medical care I have never cared what the ethos of the hospital was, just that they got the care they needed. Like I said previously, next time you are in hospital walk around the wards, see what the real worries in life are and not this petty rubbish.I agree with people who say this thread should be locked, its at nonsense level at this stage.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    gurramok wrote: »
    They auto assumed I was religious and also the hospital put lung cancer patients in danger as per news report, that is very worrying in this day and age from a public hospital.

    Its not assuming you are religious, its making sure that you do not receive the last rites at some stage in the future if you are dying while in their care. Its called respecting your beliefs but you are way too blinkered to see that point.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    In the NHS? YES! In fact, part of the patient admission form and nursing care plan included a section on the spiritual needs of the patients. This is standard nursing practice everywhere AFIK. If someone said atheist it was respected, in the catholic hosp also.

    So does that mean the UK hospitals are being intolerant too?! :O
    Maybe it's a massive hospital wide conspiracy! :O
    gurramok wrote: »
    Tis strange than non-Catholic posters are up front about their beliefs and yet those posters who spring to the defence of the Catholic ethos curse at my posts and yet continue to say they are not Catholic?

    So you're saying that because they are defending the ethos they have to be catholic? If they have said they are are not Catholic, obviously they aren't.

    Also you do realise that your whole issue here appears to be that they auto-assumed that you're religious which is the EXACT same thing you are now doing to every poster here when they make a point against you


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    If I am in a predominately Muslim country and the hospital has a muslim ethos, I wouldn't complain. Same with a predominately jewish society, etc, etc, etc. Once it doesn't impinge on care who the hell cares. You have seriously little to worry about in life is this is of such a concern to you, when my loved ones need medical care I have never cared what the ethos of the hospital was, just that they got the care they needed. Like I said previously, next time you are in hospital walk around the wards, see what the real worries in life are and not this petty rubbish.I agree with people who say this thread should be locked, its at nonsense level at this stage.

    I have shown that it did affect care, it affected lung cancer patients.
    So you're saying that because they are defending the ethos they have to be catholic? If they have said they are are not Catholic, obviously they aren't.

    Also you do realise that your whole issue here appears to be that they auto-assumed that you're religious which is the EXACT same thing you are now doing to every poster here when they make a point against you

    Why defend a Catholic ethos then? Only Catholics would do that.

    Those posters have staunchly defended the Catholic Church, its obvious their background. I didn't have a conversation with the receptionist debating atheism or any religion before I was asked the question. Quite a difference there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Gurramok it's now becoming clear the real issue here is not the question or even the hospital's board and ethos.

    The issue is that you have a clear hatred for anything remotely Catholic/Christian and that for all the intolerance you seem determined to experience you are the one being intolerant.

    And exactly what business is it of yours is it what religious backrounds we come from? What difference does it make? Does it make our points any less relevent? Or do you think those of us with religous backrounds should not be allowed to post on this topic?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    gurramok wrote: »
    Why defend a Catholic ethos then? Only Catholics would do that.

    Those posters have staunchly defended the Catholic Church, its obvious their background. I didn't have a conversation with the receptionist debating atheism or any religion before I was asked the question. Quite a difference there.

    No, no they won't. You are auto-assuming.
    They're defending the hospitals right to have an ethos considering the country's predominant faith and the history of people who set up the hospital. You don't have to be religious to do that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭optogirl


    Man - I have no time whatsoever for the Catholic church and have ranted and raved on boards many a time about how much I resent their stronghold on this country HOWEVER, your points are invalid and make no sense.

    As I stated before - if you feel you were discriminated against due to your religious beliefs you should contact the complaints department at the HSE. It looks to me however that you are just making a mountain out of a molehill. The mater hospital was founded by and is run by a religious order. That is all. They do NOT discriminate against staff or patients who are not catholic. It is standard practice to be asked your religion in a hospital for a variety of reasons, not least being that some religions are against blood transfusion & organ donation. Also, you may or may not want the last rites as has been pointed out in several posts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Gurramok it's now becoming clear the real issue here is not the question or even the hospital's board and ethos.

    The issue is that you have a clear hatred for anything remotely Catholic/Christian and that for all the intolerance you seem determined to experience you are the one being intolerant.

    And exactly what business is it of yours is it what religious backrounds we come from? What difference does it make? Does it make our points any less relevent? Or do you think those of us with religous backrounds should not be allowed to post on this topic?

    Audrey, thats quite a jump you have done there.

    Where have I displayed hatred for anything remotely Catholic/Christian or me being intolerant? Quote some posts.

    Its the defence of said posters hiding behind their true identity. I think everyone of all types should post and they have.
    No, no they won't. You are auto-assuming.
    They're defending the hospitals right to have an ethos considering the country's predominant faith and the history of people who set up the hospital. You don't have to be religious to do that

    You have to explain how a stranger can auto assume my religion and a poster who staunchly defends the Catholic religion cannot be assumed to be a Catholic as your clutch at straws there MCR.

    Why defend it in the modern age? I can understand if this was the 1950's with the power of the church over people but nowadays practising Catholic numbers have decreased and we are in a secular society with many religions and no religions from followers..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    gurramok wrote: »
    I have shown that it did affect care, it affected lung cancer patients.



    Why defend a Catholic ethos then? Only Catholics would do that.

    Those posters have staunchly defended the Catholic Church, its obvious their background. I didn't have a conversation with the receptionist debating atheism or any religion before I was asked the question. Quite a difference there.

    I have not actually defended the Catholic church, I have defended the right of the hospital to ask the question. Its designed to get a clergyman for those who will need one and not to for those that don't, its a simple clarification. Would you rather sit on your death bed and see yourself being prayed over when you didn't want it.As for the lung cancer patients my understanding from the article is that it was a TEST DRUG, therefore the hospital is under no obligation to allow the patients to be tested with the drug while in their care so it did not affect their treatment as they received all the treatment normally given by any hospital to cancer patients in their care. Any hospital can refuse to give experimental drugs to its patients for any number of reasons so thats just ckutching at straws to back up a facile argument.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭optogirl


    gurramok wrote: »
    hiding behind their true identity.


    How can somebody 'hide behind their true identity'. You are just writing random words now :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    optogirl wrote: »
    How can somebody 'hide behind their true idenity'. You are just writing random words now :rolleyes:

    That would be an ecumenical matter. And he hates those.


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement