Public sector Union to resist removal of 'bank time'

gurramok

FFS. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1029/pay.html

rte wrote:

Lower paid civil servants have said they will resist the removal of bank time - allocated to allow them to cash their pay cheque - despite the fact that most are now paid by electronic transfer.

However, the Civil Public and Services Union said the elimination of bank time would hit lower paid workers disproportionately.

In the 1970s, the Government wanted its employees to move from cash to payment by cheque - partly to avoid robberies by subversives.

They agreed to allow each civil servant 30 minutes 'bank time' per week or fortnight - depending on how they were paid - to go to the bank to cash their cheque.

The entitlement was discontinued for new entrants from 2003 - but still exists for pre-2003 employees.

What world are the public sector unions living in?:mad:

At this time of need, will they ever cop on?:mad::mad:

gandalf

Ah the CPSU the Monster Raving Looney Party of the Unions. They are doing themselves no favours at all.

All they are doing with this is making it easier for the Government to get public support to cull numbers in the entry level jobs of the Public Service.

sollar

That is pretty ridiculous alright

ardmacha

This is a disgrace.

The entitlement was discontinued for new entrants from 2003 - but still exists for pre-2003 employees.

Another cases of the unions catering to older folk.

murphaph

The removal of this legacy from the 70's won't actually cost an employee one penny will it? They're not taking money off them, just making them work a FULL WEEK for which they'll have a FULL WEEK's pay deposited directly into their bank accounts.

TBH I'd love to see them being paid in cash again and this free 30 mons off for nothing taken off them, just to sicken the lot of them. Let them then find "bank time" in the week to LODGE money to cover all those direct debits that didn't exist in the 70's either. Pr!cks.

Byron85

Are people actually still being paid by cheque? I thought most transactions, such as wages, were done electronically now.

gurramok

ardmacha wrote: »

This is a disgrace.

Another cases of the unions catering to older folk.

From your previous posts on the public service, do you agree that this issue is self defeating for public servants? It gives them a bad public image in the public eye?

PanchoVilla

Why is this even an issue? They're taking 30 minutes to do something they no longer need to do. How does this change adversely affect any PS employee? What, they have to work an extra 30 mins a week? PS unions should be banned all together if this is all they have to complain about.

kelle

Which PS workers were getting this perk? I never did, even when I got paid by cheque (my mum used to put it in the bank for me!) - that changed approx 1996!

ardmacha

From your previous posts on the public service, do you agree that this issue is self defeating for public servants? It gives them a bad public image in the public eye?

Of course.

I'd love to see them being paid in cash again

In 10c pieces, preferably

MarkR

And we keep hearing how the Croke Park agreement will lead to public sector workers becoming more flexible. FFS.

20Cent

The question that should be asked is "does anyone use this" very much doubt it.
Fixating on small stuff like this can make views more entrenched.
You want me to work by certain rules, then thats what I'll do to the letter, it would be a false economy.

Spudmonkey

This is why I hate unions and would never join one. The resist everything purely cause they can.

This proves that they will never change, never change work practices, never give the value for money they promise they will. I hope the government uses this as the clause they need to back out of the CP agreement.

Gumbo

murphaph wrote: »

The removal of this legacy from the 70's won't actually cost an employee one penny will it? They're not taking money off them, just making them work a FULL WEEK for which they'll have a FULL WEEK's pay deposited directly into their bank accounts.

TBH I'd love to see them being paid in cash again and this free 30 mons off for nothing taken off them, just to sicken the lot of them. Let them then find "bank time" in the week to LODGE money to cover all those direct debits that didn't exist in the 70's either. Pr!cks.

you would take any chance to try belittle PS workers, wouldnt you :rolleyes:
its not even the PS workers that are saying this here, its the CPSU, not the actual workers, and i think you'll find that there would not be many employees against having it removed. your post is just another pointless PS worker bash :rolleyes:

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Why is this even an issue? They're taking 30 minutes to do something they no longer need to do. How does this change adversely affect any PS employee? What, they have to work an extra 30 mins a week? PS unions should be banned all together if this is all they have to complain about.

its actually 30 mins per fortnight IIRC, but irrelevant because of electronic payment. i think you'll find its not the PS employees leading this outburst, its the actual CPSU themselves.

NinjaTruncs

Surely this would have been one of the areas highlighted in the Croke Park agreement? if it wasn't that agreement should be thrown out.

How can the PS ever expect to be seeing as trying to make improvements in their work practices if they won't even give up a 30 minute allowance they don't actually need.

RGS

Its a stupid decision but appears to be a reaction to the decision of the Secretary Generals and Assistant Secretary Generals refusal to give up their privilege days as reported on the RTE website site.

Its disgraceful that the top earners, who survived the pay cut in the last budget are refusing to give up their privilege days.

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

you would take any chance to try belittle PS workers, wouldnt you :rolleyes:
its not even the PS workers that are saying this here, its the CPSU, not the actual workers, and i think you'll find that there would not be many employees against having it removed. your post is just another pointless PS worker bash :rolleyes:

They belittle themselves without any help from me by pulling sh!t like this!

Their union represents THEM, so please pull the other one. Their union is only doing what they have given them a mandate to do on their behalf, so fcuk the lot of them. :mad:

The CP deal is so obviously nothing more than a joke, when 30 mins banking time for non-existant cheques is fought tooth and nail over. I'll be happy when the IMF eventually get to set the terms.

We are constantly told by the PS fanboys on here that it's all the management's fault that there's no reforms, but clearly the management don't control their union...they do, so the ordinary admins and clerks anr mandating their union to fight for 30 mins that they don't need anymore and haven't needed for many years.

When the money runs out in April I hope they remember this.

mikemac

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Surely this would have been one of the areas highlighted in the Croke Park agreement?

It's in the OP's article, it's one of the first things the CP agreement was to tackle and they've set a deadline

gandalf

kceire wrote: »

its actually 30 mins per fortnight IIRC, but irrelevant because of electronic payment. i think you'll find its not the PS employees leading this outburst, its the actual CPSU themselves.

It was originally either weekly or fortnightly depending on what frequency they were paid.

Well hopefully the PS employees who are members of the CPSU will make their leadership realise there are battles that need to be fought and those that are at best a waste of time and at worst putting their jobs in danger.

NinjaTruncs

feelingstressed wrote: »

It's in the OP's article, it's one of the first things the CP agreement was to tackle and they've set a deadline

I only read the bit the OP quoted, i assumed he had posted all the article.

changes

This is the union gone mad. I'd be surprised if the actual staff would be against its removal.

I don't know who gets this half hour anyway we certainly don't get it.

Uriel.

I'm completely appaled by this.

This is one of the least painful "reforms" that would be implemented under croke park. Whether the country's economic situation wad bad or not, this "privilege" should have been done away with the day payments started to be made by EFT.

These gob****es are doing absolutely nothing to help themselves or the public good.

When public opinion (whether justified or misconceived) of the value for money offered by the public service is at it's lowest, they pull a stunt like this. God help us all.

As RTE said tonight if this "small" "reform" can't be implemented without a fight, what hope is there for the more significant and complex reforms to be implemented.

CP will be torn up very very soon, further public service pay cuts will ensue and they've nobody to blame only themselves.

changes

Apparently its only the pre 2003 staff to that get it too. Mr Horan would want to pull himself together and put this one to bed asap.

From RTE:" The entitlement was discontinued for new entrants from 2003 - but still exists for pre-2003 employees".

Gumbo

murphaph wrote: »

They belittle themselves without any help from me by pulling sh!t like this!

Their union represents THEM, so please pull the other one. Their union is only doing what they have given them a mandate to do on their behalf, so fcuk the lot of them. :mad:

The CP deal is so obviously nothing more than a joke, when 30 mins banking time for non-existant cheques is fought tooth and nail over. I'll be happy when the IMF eventually get to set the terms.

We are constantly told by the PS fanboys on here that it's all the management's fault that there's no reforms, but clearly the management don't control their union...they do, so the ordinary admins and clerks anr mandating their union to fight for 30 mins that they don't need anymore and haven't needed for many years.

When the money runs out in April I hope they remember this.

i dont recall a mandate circulating in relation to the bank time.
its not the staff that are opposed to this, its just the union making some noise imo.

your attitude is just begrudery imo, and enforced by your comments "fcuk the lot of them", just proves you dont listen to reason.

maybe your just a PS basher fanboy

rebel10

Sorry, was it just civil servants who have been receiving this free time?
Not all public sec?

Gumbo

rebel10 wrote: »

Sorry, was it just civil servants who have been receiving this free time?
Not all public sec?

havent a clue tbh, deffo was available in Local Authorities to older staff.
LA's are Civil Service arent they????

SugarHigh

20Cent wrote: »

The question that should be asked is "does anyone use this" very much doubt it.
Fixating on small stuff like this can make views more entrenched.
You want me to work by certain rules, then thats what I'll do to the letter, it would be a false economy.

If no one uses it then they why do they care if it's taken away?

Uriel.

kceire wrote: »

i dont recall a mandate circulating in relation to the bank time.
its not the staff that are opposed to this, its just the union making some noise imo.

your attitude is just begrudery imo, and enforced by your comments "fcuk the lot of them", just proves you dont listen to reason.

maybe your just a PS basher fanboy

I'm sorry, but even public sector bashers can't be rebutted on this one. The public service with acts like this are loading the public service bashing gun, one very, very big bullet at a time. The clip is almost full and the trigger is gonna be pulled soon.

Like it or not, agree or not, SOs and COs are represented by the CPSU and if members had any real cop on or desire to see though even the most reasonable of provisions of CP then they would revolt against their union "representatives". The time for sitting quietly by is long since gone. Act with your membership. Threaten to cancel your subscription if your representatives don't cop on

Gumbo

SugarHigh wrote: »

If no one uses it then they why do they care if it's taken away?

Uriel. wrote: »

I'm sorry, but even public sector bashers can't be rebutted on this one. The public service with acts like this are loading the public service bashing gun, one very, very big bullet at a time. The clip is almost full and the trigger is gonna be pulled soon.

Like it or jot, agree or not, SOs and COs are represented by the CPSU and if members had any real cop on or desire to see though even the most reasonable of provisions of CP then they would revolt against their union "representatives". The time for sitting quietly by is long since gone. Act with your membership. Threaten to cancel your subscription if your representatives don't cop on

this is what im trying to get across, the members have said nothing about this. its just the union itself shouting its mouth off imo.

no staff were mandated, and no staff/member voted to agree or go against it.

ps - im in no union at all, so i have no loyality to any of them tbh.

Uriel.

kceire wrote: »

this is what im trying to get across, the members have said nothing about this. its just the union itself shouting its mouth off imo.

no staff were mandated, and no staff/member voted to agree or go against it.

ps - im in no union at all, so i have no loyality to any of them tbh.

Well it's up to the members of the Union to let the union know that they don't support their "outburst"

rebel10

kceire wrote: »

havent a clue tbh, deffo was available in Local Authorities to older staff.
LA's are Civil Service arent they????

So the public service can't, as a whole, be picked on. Am i right? So instead of shouting off, (not you Kceire)can we not just find out who exactly is getting this and demand that they react against it.
I know that teachers for one certainly aren't entitled to this and i would imagine that many other public sector workers aren't either.
Name the groups in the public sec. that get this before this rant goes on perhaps?

Uriel.

rebel10 wrote: »

So the public service can't, as a whole, be picked on. Am i right? So instead of shouting off, (not you Kceire)can we not just find out who exactly is getting this and demand that they react against it.
I know that teachers for one certainly aren't entitled to this and i would imagine that many other public sector workers aren't either.
Name the groups in the public sec. that get this before this rant goes on perhaps?

Just pick on the CPSU membership, they're the ones publicly saying that they won't agree to this

hondasam

I have no problem giving up the bank time which is five days in the year. This was given in the dept I work in to compensate for the shift we work or that's what the union negotiated. The higher up will not give up their privilage days.

rebel10

Uriel. wrote: »

Just pick on the CPSU membership, they're the ones publicly saying that they won't agree to this

But they obviously the only ones who have been receiving this to date. So its just members of the CPSU, thats fine, can we remember that not all the public sec have been receiving this?

hondasam

Uriel. wrote: »

Just pick on the CPSU membership, they're the ones publicly saying that they won't agree to this

The cpsu represent the lower paid ps. not all members support this.

Uriel.

rebel10 wrote: »

But they obviously the only ones who have been receiving this to date. So its just members of the CPSU, thats fine, can we remember that not all the public sec have been receiving this?

PSEU members too. Don't know about admin workers in the HSE or the Local Authorities though

Uriel.

hondasam wrote: »

The cpsu represent the lower paid ps. not all members support this.

The CPSU - representing COs and SOs are the only Union to publicly announce their "fight" against this measure

Uriel.

hondasam wrote: »

The higher up will not give up their privilage days.

What "higher up" Unions have publicly or otherwise said they won't give up their privilige days?

meditraitor

Uriel. wrote: »

What "higher up" Unions have publicly or otherwise said they won't give up their privilige days?

Good point! the thing is they will do the best they can for the people they represent and stretch out the process of change.

One thing good that will come of this process is that the real wasters will retire with their (undeserved ) pension before the grafters.....the best we can hope for is to get rid of these cnuts(the price is worth it) and move on.

kippy

I was shocked/flabergasted when I started work in the public service that:
A. Some people got paid weekly, by cheque and received a paper copy of their payslip.
B. Others, within the same organisation didn't.

Its only right that people who work for the same organisation get paid at the same pay frequency by the same method and with a standardised issuance of payslip (preferably online).
Its one of a set of fundamental items that could change within the public service to save and absolute bomb in administration/staffing costs as well as lead to further efficiencies down the line.

I'm not exactly sure where this directive has come from (CPSU Members or top ranking CPSU without consultation with members) but the fact that this is an issue does not bode well for all of these "improvements and efficiencies" that have been promised under the CPA. The banking time issue is tied into the above by the way and is a smaller part of the salary payments changes that have been requested.

I had hoped that Public Service Unions would look out for their members long term futures by at least assisting with implementing some of these changes to help stream line services and reduce costs but as ever and yet again the more militant (and usually laziest section) members of the unions have managed to get these issues into the spotlight.
God help us when redeployment is brought to the table...........

hondasam

Uriel. wrote: »

The CPSU - representing COs and SOs are the only Union to publicly announce their "fight" against this measure

are you a ps worker ?

hondasam

Uriel. wrote: »

What "higher up" Unions have publicly or otherwise said they won't give up their privilige days?

These members in the higher up unions get 31 days holidays.

kippy

hondasam wrote: »

These members in the higher up unions get 31 days holidays.

I dont think there is an issue with people who have been in organisations longer getting longer holidays. That is a factor of many organisations, not just public sector and it has nothing to do with Union membership.

Uriel.

kippy wrote: »

I dont think there is an issue with people who have been in organisations longer getting longer holidays. That is a factor of many organisations, not just public sector and it has nothing to do with Union membership.

They get additional holidays (i.e. an amount extra to the statutory annual leave) per grade, I guess being representative (recompense) of additional work, longer hours, more responsibility and more stress

Uriel.

hondasam wrote: »

These members in the higher up unions get 31 days holidays.

Number 1 - so?
Number 2 - That doesn't answer the question I asked

Dempo1

:mad:WTF, I almost threw my dinner up listening to this latest news on 6 one. Its an outrage and complete disgrace this union would consider advising its members to fight any government plan the scrap this pre historic perk (sorry facility). Who in the public sector is still paid by cheque? its a complete nonsense and only further infuriates the general public, even the small few who actually support public sector workers.

Cop on Union, what a bunch of complete out of touch gob****es.

WDW1111

kippy wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure where this directive has come from (CPSU Members or top ranking CPSU without consultation with members)

It's the latter, members have not actually been consulted about the loss of bank time. I can't speak for the rest of the civil service but where I work the only thing we are surprised at is the fact that it hasn't gone long ago, most people have fully expected it to be taken ages ago.

Einhard

kceire wrote: »

you would take any chance to try belittle PS workers, wouldnt you :rolleyes:
its not even the PS workers that are saying this here, its the CPSU, not the actual workers, and i think you'll find that there would not be many employees against having it removed. your post is just another pointless PS worker bash :rolleyes:

It's not a pointless PS bash at all. We're in the middle of the greatest economic crisis in the history of the state, and the unions have repeatedly stated that they are willing to do their part to see us through. And yet, when they are asked to concede the tiniest piece of ground, they dig their heels in, readying themselves for the long haul. I know it's limited to the CPSU in this instance, and I might be accused of tarring with too borad a brush, but its follows the pattern of union activity, particularly in the PS.

its actually 30 mins per fortnight IIRC, but irrelevant because of electronic payment. i think you'll find its not the PS employees leading this outburst, its the actual CPSU themselves.

The CPSU's membership pay their union every month to represent their interests. The union executive receive their mandate from their members. It's a cop out of the highest degree to then turn around and claim that the union doesn't represent its members. Do you think that, should Horan manage to browbeat the government into submission, his members will voluntarily forego the half hour per week? Not bloody likely. PS members of unions can't have it every which way. Either their unions represent them, or they don't- in which case they should consider leaving the union involved, or replace the executive.

kceire wrote: »

i dont recall a mandate circulating in relation to the bank time.
its not the staff that are opposed to this, its just the union making some noise imo.

Making noise on behalf of its members. Blair Horan isn't doing this for himself after all.

your attitude is just begrudery imo, and enforced by your comments "fcuk the lot of them", just proves you dont listen to reason.

maybe your just a PS basher fanboy

It's not begrudgery at all. It's frustration. Deep, infuriating frustration. There are, of course, commentators who enjoy having a go at the PS and don't take into account the cuts to pay and benefits the PS have had to endure, but really, when the PS unions act in this way, one can't be blamed for getting angry.

Uriel.

This is a letter from the head of CPSU - spouting the usual union rhetoric about "higher ups".

The higher ups haven't "volunteered" to give up privilge days. Have they been asked to? Have they refused to? Why should they volunteer? What has the CPSU volunteered to do?

20 days is a pretty standard amount for the average worker.

Edit - this was a post in response to a Hondasam post quoting the content of a letter from Blair Horan - the post was subsequently deleted.

ardmacha

A. Some people got paid weekly, by cheque and received a paper copy of their payslip.
B. Others, within the same organisation didn't.

I think there is a broader point here. There are many cases where people already have efficient ways of doing things, while others do not. A simple initial step is a clear inventory of things and putting everyone on the reasonable and efficient arrangements already existing elsewhere in the PS.

meditraitor

ardmacha wrote: »

I think there is a broader point here. There are many cases where people already have efficient ways of doing things, while others do not. A simple initial step is a clear inventory of things and putting everyone on the reasonable and efficient arrangements already existing elsewhere in the PS.

The first step is people stepping up to the plate,..... or get fecked..... To many lazy people in this country and the majority of them are public/civil servents