Timing belt gone €1,500 repairs

Mike_Hunt

Looking for some advice here. Second hand Hyundai Sante Fe 2005 2.0 Petrol bought June 16th. 3 Months warranty on engine and gearbox. Car wasn't performing great over the last week and then started hearing a noise under bonnet. Booked into garage this morning but car wouldn't start. AA towed to garage and looks like timing belt is gone. Garage is gonna strip it down to find out the extent of the damage - best case, new head gasket, worst case, new engine.

Called dealership and they don't want to know. I can't give indefinite warranties I'd be out of business. I understand that of course but 4.5 months and a catastrophic failure! All of a sudden during the call the guy said well if you take me to court I'll win. I hadn't mentioned anything about it. He also said if i'd taken it to him first we might have been able to work out a price for repairs based on cost price? I was expecting to be told the fan belt needed replacing or something like that.

Obviously out of pocket hugely for this - I imagine this would affect resale value too (or do people not think like that?).

I'll provide more details once the garage comes back with the full extent of the bad news. I suppose I'm just looking for some advice/guidance if anyone's willing to share their views.

Nonoperational

Sorry to hear that. There are a few things to condiser.

Firstly - what is the recommended timing belt change interval on that engine? Phone a hyundai garage and check if you need to. If you are within the time and mileage limit then there is a chance Hyundai would contribute something. But it will be close to being due if it's not passed it.

I actually don't think I'd expect the garage that sold you to do much about it. It is outside the warranty period and either you should have checked the interval yourself or it's just an unfortunate "one of those things". It's not the kind of thing the garage should have necessairly been aware of however - You may have a case if they sold it and at the time of the sale the belt was due a change and they should have done it.

Probably not what you want to hear but that's what I think.

Stevie Dakota

Yes, I'm afraid the best you can hope for is a goodwill gesture if the belt failed before its suggested change, and it has a full Hyundai SH. But there is not much goodwill around at the moment.

Getting the best price for the repair is also not helped by the fact that the garage has the car and is stripping the engine down to diagnose the problem, I suspect you will be stuck with their bill whatever it is.

Once they give you a diagnosis try and get some quotes for the work elsewhere to use as a benchmark.

Mike_Hunt

Mike_Hunt wrote: »

Car wasn't performing great over the last week and then started hearing a noise under bonnet. Booked into garage this morning but car wouldn't start. AA towed to garage and looks like timing belt is gone. .

Who said it's the belt ?
Anyway, it's out of warrenty so the garage who sold it to you is in no way liable really.

lol at the user name btw.

johnos1984

I doubt the belt caused the prior poor running issues.

It could well of snapped but I think there are other issues here tbh

Nonoperational

johnos1984 wrote: »

I doubt the belt caused the prior poor running issues.

It could well of snapped but I think there are other issues here tbh

Would it be possible it was so shagged it was just about hanging on and the timing was affected causing poor running? (I'm not a mechanic so this could be nonsense!).

Cuddlesworth

RoverJames wrote: »

Who said it's the belt ?
Anyway, it's out of warrenty so the garage who sold it to you is in no way liable really.

lol at the user name btw.

Irish Consumer Law says otherwise. His warranty period is indefinite and entirely up to the judge to decide. If the judge decides that a 10K+ car suffers catastrophic engine failure before six months of purchase is unreasonable then the garage would be held liable for repairs.


The only problem is due to the amounts involved a lawyer and time are what's needed.

johnos1984

gpf101 wrote: »

Would it be possible it was so shagged it was just about hanging on and the timing was affected causing poor running? (I'm not a mechanic so this could be nonsense!).

Unless the timing was out I don't think it would of caused the poor running

They usually just snap due to the rubber perishing from age/wear however I'm not a mechanic so wait until someone else confirms/disagrees

I'm not doubting that it has snapped I just think there may of been other issues at play before hand.

Hellrazer

johnos1984 wrote: »

I doubt the belt caused the prior poor running issues.

Could well do with these.The balance shaft belt usually slips,knocking the crankshaft sensor out of place which can cause crap running or no start before the main belt actually goes.

It could well of snapped but I think there are other issues here tbh

Recommended belt change on a petrol Santa Fe is 36000 miles but Ive seen them go at 30-32.We used to change them at 28k just to be sure.

Op if the belt is gone its more than likely a new cylinder head or repair depending how bad the damage is, valves,timing belt etc.Guts of 1500 euros worth of work.

My advice is to use only genuine on this.The belts have been modified 2 or 3 times I think and the Gates number(they are gates belts on them) that I last saw used was an older version.

Both belt part numbers should end in -38020.

johnos1984

Hellrazer wrote: »

Could well do with these.The balance shaft belt usually slips,knocking the crankshaft sensor out of place which can cause crap running or no start before the main belt actually goes.

So one belt slips and knocks the timing out?

Thanks for that info

mullingar

One possibility is that the belt slipped 1 notch. This will cause the car to run VERY badly, but it depends on the car, eg DOHC etc.

The TB tensioner *may* also have siezed, if it was this it would grind the back of the belt until it was no more!

I hope for the OP that it was a non-interference engine, but I doubt it

Edit: many posters bet me to it

Cuddlesworth

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Irish Consumer Law says otherwise. His warranty period is indefinite and entirely up to the judge to decide. If the judge decides that a 10K+ car suffers catastrophic engine failure before six months of purchase is unreasonable then the garage would be held liable for repairs.


The only problem is due to the amounts involved a lawyer and time are what's needed.

When the judge factors in that the OP drove it a week when it didn't seem right and also when it started making funny noises I imagine the garage would not be held liable for repairs

MajorMax

The timing belt on my 2004 Ford Focus went at 90,000 Miles. I was expecting a huge bill. I did some research and I found out that if I had bought the exact same car in the UK, the warranty on the timing belt was 100,000 Miles. I rang Ford head office in Cork. Stayed cool and informed them that I felt I was being unfairly penalised due to buying Irish instead of buying the same car in Northern Ireland.
The Cork guy was brilliant. I faxed him copies of my annual services. I was missing one years invoices as I had skipped that year. They only charged me labour to replace the heads and I only had to pay 650 Euro instead of the 1600 I was initially quoted.

Cuddlesworth

RoverJames wrote: »

When the judge factors in that the OP drove it a week when it didn't seem right and also when it started making funny noises I imagine the garage would not be held liable for repairs

And if the judge decided that because the OP doesn't work in the trade that he would be unaware of the risks doing the above could cause, then the defective part is still the garages problem.

If he did go to court I would put money on the garage settling for at least half on the day before.

Nonoperational

But it mightn't be a defective part at all it may just have been at the end of it's life and was scheduled to be changed. If that change fell within the OPs period of owning the car then it's the OPs fault in my opinion. If the garage should have changed it before sale it's different.

I know it's easy to say after the fact but a timing belt is probably the no1 thing to look for in used cars. Most likely you will have to push to have them done.

unkel

MajorMax wrote: »

if I had bought the exact same car in the UK, the warranty on the timing belt was 100,000 Miles.

A warranty on a timing belt? That doesn't make sense to me. Rubber wears over time or the belt could easily be damaged.

gibbon75

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And if the judge decided that because the OP doesn't work in the trade that he would be unaware of the risks doing the above could cause, then the defective part is still the garages problem.

Common sense still should apply: If a car is running poor and producing weird noises,one really shouldn't drive it...you don't have to be a mechanic or brain surgeon to see this

gibbon75

unkel wrote: »

A warranty on a timing belt? That doesn't make sense to me. Rubber wears over time or the belt could easily be damaged.

Manufacturer's recommended change interval,rather than warranty.

johnos1984

gibbon75 wrote: »

Common sense still should apply

Some people are simply lacking in that department

professore

In fairness when you buy from a garage you expect the timing belt to be done if it's due. Otherwise why bother ?

Zubeneschamali

unkel wrote: »

A warranty on a timing belt?

If the car has a 100,000 mile warranty, is serviced by the book and suffers a catastrophic failure, then the warranty should cover it.

gibbon75

johnos1984 wrote: »

Some people are simply lacking in that department

johnos1984

gibbon75 wrote: »

Seriously some things I've seen people do and say about their cars makes you think

I've had a friend walk in to tell me her car was making a funny noise, I went out and spotted a flat wheel which was almost shredded as she had drive 20 miles or so on it

Another one who drove to the garage as there was steam coming out from under the bonnet, about 10 miles or so. He thought something was wrong so thought best to take it to a mechanic :eek:

Common sense, some have it and other think they have it

gibbon75

gibbon75 wrote: »

Common sense still should apply: If a car is running poor and producing weird noises,one really shouldn't drive it...you don't have to be a mechanic or brain surgeon to see this

Or a judge :pac:

Hellrazer

johnos1984 wrote: »

So one belt slips and knocks the timing out?

Thanks for that info

More than likely its put the crankshaft sensor out by a bit hence the crap running for a few days and then what usually happens is that the sensor which is attached to a steel circular plate (a bit like a saw blade) detaches altogether and then flies into the main belt resulting in total failure of everything behind the timing cover.

Also which I should have said earlier is that sometimes you can have the balance belt slip,pull the sensor out altogether without it hitting the main belt and then car will give the symptoms of the belt being gone but this will only show up when the timing cover is taken off and the main belt is still in one piece.

If thats happened count your self lucky since you`ll get away with just a sensor and balance belt.

Hellrazer

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If the car has a 100,000 mile warranty, is serviced by the book and suffers a catastrophic failure, then the warranty should cover it.

Thats what most manufacturers do.But then most of them stipulate a time period aswell ie 50k or 5 years whichever comes first.It covers their arse in a situation like this.



Hyundai for example will cover the belt up to 36k up to 5 years old but then if you got the belt done in a dealer on time they cover the next belt up to the interval that its due and so on with subsequent belt changes.

36k is very low for a timing belt in my opinion-They obviously knew theyd go at or around that so decided on that interval on purpose.

Mike_Hunt

Hey all thanks for the views its much appreciated. Just to clarify car engine wasn't banging out of the bonnet or anything the car was just sounding a little different to normal and revs were a little high. It was booked into garage as soon as.

Spoke to garage that has the car and before they had a good look they called Hyundai and they said that in this situation they have had reports that theres a 50/50 chance that just replacing the timing belt and fixing everything up might work. Its €420 to get this done. Don't feel like theres really a choice but to proceed.

Hellrazer

Mike_Hunt wrote: »

Spoke to garage that has the car and before they had a good look they called Hyundai and they said that in this situation they have had reports that theres a 50/50 chance that just replacing the timing belt and fixing everything up might work. Its €420 to get this done. Don't feel like theres really a choice but to proceed.

Sound like theyre grasping at straws if you ask me.Ive had very little or no success with just changing the belt and hoping for the best if it has snapped.Usually there is damage to the valves and head.

Also that price they are charging you is about the going rate for getting a belt done anyway if you include 2 belts,tensioner,sensor.

The way we used to test for engine damage is to put a main belt on,line up the timing marks and crank the engine by hand.Straight away they`ll know if there is engine damage without charging you 420 euros for the privilege.

Belts about 50 euros + an hours labour--About 150 to just test it is more like it.

Also if they do fit the belt and there is damage done you`ll have to pay for another belt after they fix the engine damage as you couldnt reuse the belt again.

Nonoperational

That sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Unless it's a non interference engine then there will prob be valves bent etc, just changing the belt and hoping for the best sounds completely mad. I'd get the car from them to someone that knows what they're doing asap.

Hellrazer

gpf101 wrote: »

That sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Unless it's a non interference engine then there will prob be valves bent etc, just changing the belt and hoping for the best sounds completely mad. I'd get the car from them to someone that knows what they're doing asap.

+1
Santa Fe petrol is an interferance engine.

Usually whats required is a new head (the valve seats snap off),valves,maybe 1 or 2 pistons but not always,timing belt,balance belt,2 pulleys,crankshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor plate.

jimmyw

Hellrazer wrote: »

Sound like theyre grasping at straws if you ask me.Ive had very little or no success with just changing the belt and hoping for the best if it has snapped.Usually there is damage to the valves and head.

Also that price they are charging you is about the going rate for getting a belt done anyway if you include 2 belts,tensioner,sensor.

The way we used to test for engine damage is to put a main belt on,line up the timing marks and crank the engine by hand.Straight away they`ll know if there is engine damage without charging you 420 euros for the privilege.

Belts about 50 euros + an hours labour--About 150 to just test it is more like it.

Also if they do fit the belt and there is damage done you`ll have to pay for another belt after they fix the engine damage as you couldnt reuse the belt again.

gpf101 wrote: »

That sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Unless it's a non interference engine then there will prob be valves bent etc, just changing the belt and hoping for the best sounds completely mad. I'd get the car from them to someone that knows what they're doing asap.

Totally agree with those comments

Greenman

So OP what news???

Mike_Hunt

Well alright then Greenman just for closure.

Timing belt changed and everything tidied up and engine came back to life. Wife picked up car and drove about 500 yards and car died again.

Garage towed it back and now the main engine sensor had failed. They changed this and wife picked up car again (she uses car for work and garage is near her workplace).

Engine sound was horrible and revs were all over the place. Brought car back and garage say they "cleaned the throttle" and re-checked all previous work. They did find a previous repair to the exhaust where a clip was used - the clip had become dislodged so they fixed that aswell. No charge for this work. They didn't think replacing the exhaust was necessary at this time.

Long story short - car is back on the road but revs are high moving up through gears and it doesn't perform as well as before. There was a whine from the engine but garage told us this was new timing belt "bedding in". Its not as bad now but still there.

There was no evidence of timing belt ever having been replaced even though car was sold serviced and valeted. I'm going to send invoices for work and full outline of what happened to dealership and see if they want to engage with me. I'm not very knowledgeable about cars (as you can probably tell) but I think the re-sale value has now dropped significantly. We only planned on keeping this car for 2 years.

Hellrazer

Mike_Hunt wrote: »

Timing belt changed and everything tidied up and engine came back to life. Wife picked up car and drove about 500 yards and car died again.

Garage towed it back and now the main engine sensor had failed. They changed this and wife picked up car again (she uses car for work and garage is near her workplace).

See my earlier posts--Main engine sensor??Its the crankshaft sensor that went.These should be changed when doing a belt on the 2.0 petrol trajet.

Engine sound was horrible and revs were all over the place. Brought car back and garage say they "cleaned the throttle" and re-checked all previous work. They did find a previous repair to the exhaust where a clip was used - the clip had become dislodged so they fixed that aswell. No charge for this work. They didn't think replacing the exhaust was necessary at this time.

Sounds like crap to be totally honest and I have a feeling whats wrong.The crankshaft sensor was probably put on back to front--Its quite an easy thing to do with these after doing a belt on them and actually looks like it fits the opposite way to the way it should.This will cause erratic idling all over the place.

Long story short - car is back on the road but revs are high moving up through gears and it doesn't perform as well as before. There was a whine from the engine but garage told us this was new timing belt "bedding in". Its not as bad now but still there.

Again more b/s--A belt doesnt "bed in"
Id say they didnt replace either the idler pulley or tensioner.Chances of the belt going again prematurely are high if they didnt replace them.

Id go back and get it checked again.

Greenman

Mike_Hunt wrote: »

Well alright then Greenman just for closure.

I'm sorry for your trouble, maybe you need to get a good independent mechanic to sort it. TBH the garage dosen't give me faith.

Keep us posted please.

tm2204

Lads, what is the recommended interval (miles/years) for changing the timing belt on a 2006 Santa Fe 2.0 petrol engine?

Is it recommended to change the belt, idler & tensioner as a matter of course?

Should the aux belt(s) be replasced at the same time?


Tks