Bloody students protesting on november 3rd

Denzil2222

What planet are these bloody students living on? What part of us spending 20 billion a year more than we take in dont they understand? Its time for them to get real and understand the goverment wont be wiping their backsides for them anymore.

20Cent

It worked for the pensioners.

MrStuffins

Post stinks of envy!

DeadMoney

"Bloody students" shake harder boy!

c_man

20Cent wrote: »

It worked for the pensioners.

I really doubt the public would get behind the students like they did for the OAPs.

20Cent

c_man wrote: »

I really doubt the public would get behind the students like they did for the OAPs.

Perhaps. People do like to see all the old faces..........

RichardAnd

First I've heard of this. Will it be a repeat of the Student fee strikes of 2008? By this I mean, they'll start Wednesday night's drinking in the afternoon in town en mass?

seabre

I think they're bloody right! OK so they are in a priveliged position in that they are not committed elsewhere (jobs/ kids/ etc) that they can do so but I really feel the need for some sort of public display of this societies dissatisfaction. I mean so many times this year I have been utterly sickened by blatant wastage of Tax Payers money on ridiculous Ministerial expenses, Bank Bailouts, Civil/Public sector incompetence/over staffing etc, Inflated Salaries! The list goes on and on its never ending. And every single time we shrug our shoulders and just take it!

I'm no expert on Politics or Economics but its as plain as the nose on our faces that the people running this country are inept and incompetent not to mention corrupt in the extreme.

I think it is such a sad reflection on us as a people that we are willing to accept these glaring problems in our Government and surely a very damning indictment on us from our overseas spectators.

Is it that we are so bloody lazy that we couldn't be bothered acting or have we actually elected the most capable there are! (Shudder!!!!)

Are the FF's FG's really the cream of the crop or just Cream - Rich and Thick!

The_Thing

RichardAnd wrote: »

.....they'll start Wednesday night's drinking in the afternoon in town en mass?

And then no doubt they'll still have the energy to vandalise cars, burn wheelie bins, and damage public property on their way home. :mad:

mikemac

You can improve students situations and save money at the same time.

The merging of the VECs is to be welcomed and there is a lot more to be done.

As when I was in college you'd apply for the grant in July/August and be lucky to get it by Christmas. I got it in late January one year.
And yes.......I was glad to get the grant though it was feck all in my day. Wow, I sound old. But realy I got the full grant and it's not much at all

Tipperary North VEC were terrible to deal with. How does it take 5 months to process an application?

In fact, it should be taken off the VEC and given to Revenue, they are efficient.
One centralized system, not different VECs with different turnaround times

Byron85

The_Thing wrote: »

And then no doubt they'll still have the energy to vandalise cars, burn wheelie bins, and damage public property on their way home. :mad:

What are you basing this on?

RichardAnd

The_Thing wrote: »

And then no doubt they'll still have the energy to vandalise cars, burn wheelie bins, and damage public property on their way home. :mad:

Probably. I do recall that fees demonstration very well though. I was making my way through town that evening on the way to a session (the musical type, not the drinking kind :P) and I was passed by a group of 20 students still carrying protest signs and heading towards Fibbers. On their way, they passed by a young girl with a baby begging by the side of the street (an Irish girl, not one of the Romanian chancers) and not one of them gave her a glance.

Some how, I think there are better places to spend the money being used Baz and Deco' in DCU .

Lukker-

Taking money out of education is always smart, sure we'll go back to primary services, it's served us well before..

smk89

Denzil2222 wrote: »

What part of us spending 20 billion a year more than we take in dont they understand?

Aaah, we arn't responsible for the crazy credit problems so why should we be punished for it. They are planning to double the reg fee to 3000 per year!!!
We already have severe reductions in student funding with course spending slashed substantially.

The money should come from the ridiculous salary of the presidents, su staff and senior lecturers (UCD alone had €16 million in bonuses to senior staff)

RichardAnd

smk89 wrote: »

Aaah, we arn't responsible for the crazy credit problems so why should we be punished for it. They are planning to double the reg fee to 3000 per year!!!
We already have severe reductions in student funding with course spending slashed substantially.

The money should come from the ridiculous salary of the presidents, su staff and senior lecturers (UCD alone had €16 million in bonuses to senior staff)

You'll get no argument from me that lecturers and Deans should get a hit, they get far too much for what they do. However, I think a far greater waste is the money given by colleges to student clubs and societies.

My younger brother got 10k this year from his college for his college club which is the acclaimed and highly challenging sport that is....Ultimate Frisbee. Where I went to college, one club got 20 grand one year which was squandered on plane tickets to europe so their members could get pissed in a whole different time zone.

MrStuffins

Also, the OP is not serious here. The OP logs onto Boards, starts a thread knowing it will get people talking and then he sits back and watches without adding any of his own opinions.

Of his 89 posts, 55 of them are thread starters.......... that's a pretty big thread to post ratio!

shofukan

OP wrote:

November 3th

Complains about students..

smk89

RichardAnd wrote: »

You'll get no argument from me that lecturers and Deans should get a hit, they get far too much for what they do. However, I think a far greater waste is the money given by colleges to student clubs and societies.

My younger brother got 10k this year from his college for his college club which is the acclaimed and highly challenging sport that is....Ultimate Frisbee. Where I went to college, one club got 20 grand one year which was squandered on plane tickets to europe so their members could get pissed in a whole different time zone.

I disagree with the clubs and societies statement, I'm in the scuba diving club and they get less than €10000 from the university. It's embarrassing when every club in Ireland knows how old our equipment is. Though €1k for ultimate frisbee would be too high

ddef

November 3th?....
Think you need to go back to college mate

southsiderosie

seabre wrote: »

I think they're bloody right! OK so they are in a priveliged position in that they are not committed elsewhere (jobs/ kids/ etc) that they can do so but I really feel the need for some sort of public display of this societies dissatisfaction. I mean so many times this year I have been utterly sickened by blatant wastage of Tax Payers money on ridiculous Ministerial expenses, Bank Bailouts, Civil/Public sector incompetence/over staffing etc, Inflated Salaries! The list goes on and on its never ending. And every single time we shrug our shoulders and just take it!

I'm no expert on Politics or Economics but its as plain as the nose on our faces that the people running this country are inept and incompetent not to mention corrupt in the extreme.

I think it is such a sad reflection on us as a people that we are willing to accept these glaring problems in our Government and surely a very damning indictment on us from our overseas spectators.

Is it that we are so bloody lazy that we couldn't be bothered acting or have we actually elected the most capable there are! (Shudder!!!!)

Are the FF's FG's really the cream of the crop or just Cream - Rich and Thick!

Then why not have a protest about government waste, or a protest to force elections, rather than a protest about dumping a specific entitlement program.

The only possible positive outcome I can see from this would be if the student leaders were secretly plotting to turn the fees protest into a massive anti-government sit in that would force them to friggin call elections already. But somehow I doubt it.

maxxie

At least somebody has the balls to protest! The Irish people are far too quiet about all this ****! Wheres your ****ing pride?

Denzil2222

The fact is third level feels, water charges and rates should never have been abolished in the first place. Im sick of people saying they wont pay x y and z new tax because they didnt cause the mess, this has nothing to do with who caused and who didnt cause the mess. we couldnt live on stamp duty forever new taxes have to pay for the day to day running of the country now that stamp duty has dried up, third level feels water charges and property tax are in most other eu countries.

mikemac

Denzil2222 wrote: »

The fact is third level feels, water charges and rates should never have been abolished in the first place.

In rural areas, many of us still pay for water

That might be contributions to a group scheme.
Or if you are lucky enough to own land, find the well, drill down, install the pump, annual service and pay the ESB for powering it.

And to answer you Denzil222, at a stretch I can understand Tipp North councillors going to the USA every St. Patricks weekend. But why are ratepayers paying for their wives/husbands?
So no to reintroduction of rates if they can't sort this out. And to be fair to Seamie Morris, our SF councillor, he opposes this every year.
I think there is more corruption among councillors then TDs

RichardAnd

What exactly is it the students intend to protest against? Are the fees coming back in full or is it just the hiked up registration fees?

mikemac

RichardAnd wrote: »

What exactly is it the students intend to protest against? Are the fees coming back in full or is it just the hiked up registration fees?

Hiked up registration fees.
Really fees in all but name

Working a summer job, the proposed €3,000 is a lot to save up

Denzil2222

Ireland is now a broke country, how many other broke countries have free college for all ?

mikemac

Nothing free about €1,500 registration fees.

Ok, grant students don't pay or rather, they pay and get it back months later but not everyone gets the grant

Denzil2222

feelingstressed wrote: »

Nothing free about €1,500 registration fees.

Ok, grant students don't pay or rather, they pay and get it back months later but not everyone gets the grant

Some student said to matt cooper on today fm yesterday that 60 percent of students now get the grant.

mikemac

Yes, not everyone.
And 60% would confirm that.

If you're going to post that Ireland is now a broke country then not realy a suprise, it was around 40% of students on the grant before the recession

And that was probably Michael McLoughlin from USI, he's constantly on Newstalk

Yag reuoY

feelingstressed wrote: »

Yes, not everyone.
And 60% would confirm that.

If you're going to post that Ireland is now a broke country then not realy a suprise, it was around 40% of students on the grant before the recession

And that was probably Michael McLoughlin from USI, he's constantly on Newstalk

In the university I attended -- UCC -- many of the luxurious apartments nearby were booked out each year by Feburary.

If students can find up to 6k for 9 months of accommodation, they sure as hell can cough up an extra 1500.

Additionally, a sizable number of UCC students appeared to own a car? Time to wave bye bye to trusty Mini Cooper with pink fluffy steering wheel cover I reckon.

femur61

c_man wrote: »

I really doubt the public would get behind the students like they did for the OAPs.

OAP paid taxes their whole life.

dan_d

Introduce fees from next year, or whatever, for ALL INCOMING STUDENTS.

I can understand their anger if they are suddenly, in the middle of their college years, being asked to pay lump sums on the spot, for each of the next couple of years.

How many of you had 3k lying around when you were 20 years old? And the ability to earn it again for the year after, and the year after? Not many I'd imagine. And trust me, a lot of students out there don't get grants, don't get drunk every night of the week and do work hard...and will also have to scrape together money for these fees.

20Cent

So long as this Gov is paying bondholders who gambled and lost I don't think any section of society should accept cuts in pay or services. If they let the bondholders go and took big cuts themselves then they would have the moral authority to impose cuts, charges etc

Tipp Man

20Cent wrote: »

So long as this Gov is paying bondholders who gambled and lost I don't think any section of society should accept cuts in pay or services. If they let the bondholders go and took big cuts themselves then they would have the moral authority to impose cuts, charges etc

Hold on now, as a mass of people nobody in this country did better out of the "boom" than the civil/public service. The wages were doubled in the first decade of this century. And how was this paid for? Yes on the back of tax receipts from the property boom, tax receipts which were simply unsustainable. So those who gained the most should pay the most. Isn't that the union moto?

With regards to students this registration fee is a farce. Why not just call a spade a spade and just call it uni fees as its a pure lie to say we have free education. However seen as though only 40% are actually paying it, does this mean that only 40% of students will be at the protest? If 60% aren't paying what right do they have to be protesting over something they are not paying?

(I assume the fee is means tested, can somebody point me in the direction of the criteria which need to be met to become part of the 60% non payers??)

Nijmegen

I think it's positive to see some protests, regardless of their content, that are not just the usual nutjobs and rentaleftiecrowd.

Where students and education cuts / fee increases are concerned, I believe:

Pay should be looked at in the universities, as across the board - frankly, some of the pay and rates for even freshly graduated PhD's and MSc's in doing some of the work is amazing gravy.

Uni's are not centers of efficiency or world class value for money in general.

Fee's should be better means tested, as all our tax and benefits. Look, we need to cover a €30bn -> €55bn income/spending gap, and third level education increases your life earnings potential over somebody with just a leaving cert, so I think it'd be justified to raise some fees.

But it needs to be done fairly, not in the usual black and white type fashion we have in Ireland where people are genuinely cut out of education in one house, and in another they'd be well able to pay a bit more.

We do means test for grants etc, but it's not a fair system, or as fair as it should be.

gurramok

Means test the fees. Many of those students who would be protesting would come from families who can well afford the fees, they are just greedy in not paying for their education. Let them go to study in the UK and see how they will get on. :mad:

ardmacha

Hold on now, as a mass of people nobody in this country did better out of the "boom" than the civil/public service.

Many many people did well in the boom and many better than the public services. As noted here many times on this forum private wages rose more than public ones.

frankly, some of the pay and rates for even freshly graduated PhD's

great pay for someone with an MSc or Phd might be easy to justify than great pay for largely unqualified people in other areas.

Uni's are not centers of efficiency

As noted by an EU report, Irish universities are among the most efficient in Europe and they have become more so since that report was written.

Many of those students who would be protesting would come from families who can well afford the fees, they are just greedy in not paying for their education.

Many are only out for the craic.

mikemac

Tipp Man wrote: »

(I assume the fee is means tested, can somebody point me in the direction of the criteria which need to be met to become part of the 60% non payers??)

There is a table there, I'm not copying and pasting as the formatting gets messed up

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses

It's an excellent website

smiles302

Has anyone see any arguments against students paying for their education other than some students are poor?

Student loans don't appear to even be on the table. Your third level *should* be a career investment.

The USI could really help students by talking to the big employers and figuring out what kind of graduates they would hire. That would be a more productive poster.

oppenheimer1

RichardAnd wrote: »

Probably. I do recall that fees demonstration very well though. I was making my way through town that evening on the way to a session (the musical type, not the drinking kind :P) and I was passed by a group of 20 students still carrying protest signs and heading towards Fibbers. On their way, they passed by a young girl with a baby begging by the side of the street (an Irish girl, not one of the Romanian chancers) and not one of them gave her a glance.

Some how, I think there are better places to spend the money being used Baz and Deco' in DCU .

Ignoring a beggar is a lot different than than damaging public property. The student protests while I don't agree with them are generally well behaved.

femur61

maxxie wrote: »

At least somebody has the balls to protest! The Irish people are far too quiet about all this ****! Wheres your ****ing pride?

Thats true. I went to uni in the UK in the 90's I took out a loan and repaid it. Can't see why they don't introduce a similar system here.

johnboy_123

Students shouldnt be subsidised anymore we cant afford it. There should be an aggreement with gov and banks or any particular bank (maybe AIB) which we nearly own. That all students can get student loans at a very low rate alla 1% and the student only pays it back when they start working.

Put a system in place that a student cannot apply for a visa to leave the country if the fees have not been paid back. That way at least we are getting the money back

20Cent

johnboy_123 wrote: »

Students shouldnt be subsidised anymore we cant afford it. There should be an aggreement with gov and banks or any particular bank (maybe AIB) which we nearly own. That all students can get student loans at a very low rate alla 1% and the student only pays it back when they start working.

Put a system in place that a student cannot apply for a visa to leave the country if the fees have not been paid back. That way at least we are getting the money back

Suggestion 1 sounds reasonable, except maybe they don't have to pay it back until earning a certain wage.
Suggestion 2 sounds illegal!!

smiles302

johnboy_123 wrote: »

Put a system in place that a student cannot apply for a visa to leave the country if the fees have not been paid back. That way at least we are getting the money back

Why would you need that in place? Surely British students can travel to say the States for a year and earn some cash to pay back their loans?

I've heard a few students worry that if they have to get loans for level they won't be able to leave the country before paying them back... I don't understand where this idea came from.

Anyone know if it's true only 500 euro of the registration fee goes to the college? That sounds daft... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056069774 < this thread seems to think it's true. I haven't heard the USI say anything either way.

seabre

Denzil2222 wrote: »

The fact is third level feels, water charges and rates should never have been abolished in the first place. Im sick of people saying they wont pay x y and z new tax because they didnt cause the mess, this has nothing to do with who caused and who didnt cause the mess. we couldnt live on stamp duty forever new taxes have to pay for the day to day running of the country now that stamp duty has dried up, third level feels water charges and property tax are in most other eu countries.

Problem is most people are on the bread line as it is. I work I have a mortgage, kids , utilities etc etc etc. I am barely making my commitments every month - any more levies/cuts taxes and I will not be able to make it every month. Its not that we we won't be able to put as much by - we won't be able to eat!!! Not our fault the fat cats in this country caused the economic meltdown. Its not that difficult to make those who can pay do so - There's simply no point in trying to get blood from a stone!

The_Thing

Byron85 wrote: »

What are you basing this on?

Here ya go: http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2009/12/11/story31907.asp

Group put in place to stop ‘Christmas Day’ repeat after 31 arrests

FOLLOWING an unprecedented number of arrests as a result of ‘Christmas Day’ celebrations at WIT last week, the Students’ Union has set up a group aimed at eliminating a repeat performance next year.

A total of 31 students were arrested after the annual Christmas party, which took place in locations across the city last Wednesday, December 3.

Although the WIT Students’ Union has said it had no role in organising the day’s events, it intends meeting with college staff, residents and the Gardaí in the coming week to discuss some of the issues which arose.

The majority of the arrests took place in the city centre, Lismore Park and Templars Hall housing estates. Gardaí say they will be talking to authorities at WIT in relation to the matter.

On the same night a statue of the Virgin Mary, which has been in a grotto on the Cork Rd. since the 1950s, had its hands vandalised and stolen.

“People in the area are just devastated by this. In all the years it has been there, nothing like this has happened, it’s dis-graceful,” said Cllr Pat Hayes.

Although it can’t be proven that students were involved in the vandalism, the Students’ Union will engage with residents in the area to help have the statue restored.

Despite not having any role in organising ‘Christmas Day’, the Students’ Union worked extremely hard with An Garda Síochána and residents’ associations to reduce anti-social behaviour. The Union has implemented a Community Watch to work in areas of the city with high densities of students in rented accommodation to try and prevent anti-social behaviour and resolve incidents as they occur.

“The union did organise a number of non-alcoholic events such as carol singing and a Christmas and country market. These and other events succeeded in raising over €4,500 in aid of the Belarus Orphanage Project,” explained Cathy Pembroke, President, WIT Students’ Union.

“The union would like to take this opportunity to re-iterate that it does not condone anti-social behaviour in any form or coming from any group. However, it feels it is worth underlining that with an estimated 5,000 people out in Waterford on the night the vast majority went out and enjoyed themselves without incident.”

gurramok

seabre wrote: »

Problem is most people are on the bread line as it is. I work I have a mortgage, kids , utilities etc etc etc. I am barely making my commitments every month - any more levies/cuts taxes and I will not be able to make it every month. Its not that we we won't be able to put as much by - we won't be able to eat!!! Not our fault the fat cats in this country caused the economic meltdown. Its not that difficult to make those who can pay do so - There's simply no point in trying to get blood from a stone!

And why should your personal decisions in life like loans protect you from paying for your childs education?

bassey

I'm pretty sure the WIT thing was actually apprentices doing phase 4 or 6 in the IT, not students

seabre

gurramok wrote: »

And why should your personal decisions in life like loans protect you from paying for your childs education?

Exactly when did I say I wouldn't pay for this???? Read posts properly before you reply! I am simply conveying that I am bitter towards paying further levies and taxes to breach a gap caused by massive wastage and blatant disregard of how public funds were spent during the boom. In fact what annoys me most is that as I am bound to feel the pinch for all of this I cannot save as I could and would have done to provide a decent future and education for my kids.

Your attitude in this post surmises the culture of our Gov these days - Keep the small man down - at all times - they'll pay for us if they're forced to!

ILA

Leave the fees as they are. Cut down on the exorbitant grants and in many cases the grant should only cover the fees, not the weekly piss ups as well.

Plenty of those on grants have no problem securing jobs at the same time. I'd say at least 70% of them are working and receiving the grant.

gurramok

seabre wrote: »

Exactly when did I say I wouldn't pay for this???? Read posts properly before you reply! I am simply conveying that I am bitter towards paying further levies and taxes to breach a gap caused by massive wastage and blatant disregard of how public funds were spent during the boom. In fact what annoys me most is that as I am bound to feel the pinch for all of this I cannot save as I could and would have done to provide a decent future and education for my kids.

Your attitude in this post surmises the culture of our Gov these days - Keep the small man down - at all times - they'll pay for us if they're forced to!

You had said "Problem is most people are on the bread line as it is. I work I have a mortgage, kids , utilities etc etc etc. I am barely making my commitments every month - any more levies/cuts taxes and I will not be able to make it every month"

This to me sounds like you overextended yourself. And yes, the small man aka the PAYE worker always pay for their mistakes.