Update on RAF/RN Harriers.

Steyr

Seen on another Site:

41(R)Sqaudron (Coningsby) to disband Harrier Fleet on the 29/10/10.

4(R)Sqaudron RAF Wittering aircraft moved to RAF Cottesmore by 29/10/10, squadron to disband 29/10/10.

800 Naval Air Squadron - To disband 31/03/11 some pilots transferred to US Navy Pilot School to commence carrier training.

1(F) Squadron - To disband 31/03/11 some pilots transferred to US Navy Pilot School to commence carrier training.

Klunk001

Wow,they are not spareing the horses there. :eek:

Foggy43

I do remmeber listening to Radio 4 recently and what was said was 2 aircraft carriers are to be delivered within the next few years only due to a contract signed a few years ago. One of these carriers is to be scrapped on delevery.

Even as Labour were coming to the end in power it was said that RAF pilots will get the basics of flying in an actual aircraft. All advanced training to be done in simulators. This seemed to me to have kicked off all these cutbacks we hear about.

vulcan57

Foggy43 wrote: »

One of these carriers is to be scrapped on delevery.

Thought the plan was that one carrier would be mothballed or sold. Haven't heard them saying it would be scrapped. Surely if it were to be scrapped it would cheaper to cancel the contract for that one and pay the penalty. Don't make sense. what ever happens they are going to have at least one of them sailing around the world not being able to do what it was designed for for quite a few years because they won't have any aircraft to put on it.

Beano

vulcan57 wrote: »

...Surely if it were to be scrapped it would cheaper to cancel the contract for that one and pay the penalty. ...

that was the problem. the contract that was signed meant it wasnt.

OS119

Foggy43 wrote: »

I do remmeber listening to Radio 4 recently and what was said was 2 aircraft carriers are to be delivered within the next few years only due to a contract signed a few years ago. One of these carriers is to be scrapped on delevery.

the media isn't very bright.

the plan for 2010 - 2015 is that the QE - the first carrier, due to be delivered in 2016 or so - will be used as a helicopter carrier. this is because the aircraft to go on her won't be available, and that she won't have the cat/trap ststem to launch and recover them.

the idea then is that as PoW - the second carrier, the one built with the cat/trap system, and the one that arrives at the same time as the F-35C to fly off it - goes into service in 2020 the QE will be placed into 'extended readiness'. this normally means mothballed, but is likely to actually mean re-fitted with the cat/trap system to allow her to take F-35C's.

it should also be pointed out that this plan is based on the defence budget and SDSR of 2010 - 2015. there will be another SDSR in 2015, and given that the defence budget of 2015 is likely to be healthier that the 2010 budget (the UK should be out of combat operations in Afghanistan, the Army will be being down sized, the deficit should - theoretically - be gone, and the economy should - again theoretically - be better), its, imv, very likely that actually both carriers will serve in the RN as cat/trap strike carriers with F-35C.

the timing could be better - if money were no object both carriers could be delivered in 2018 with cat/trap and there'd be F-35C's to fly off them - but it could be worse.

Foggy43

Here is BBC Scotland's version of events http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11648429

Foggy43

Just thinking! Where would you mothball or store an aircraft carrier? Not something that are bought and sold either. Not many countries come to mind that would buy one. I suppose we have 10 years for economys to recover and the situation may change before delivery.

It seems more like this goverment making sure all blame for mistakes go down to the last goverment. Political Spin I think they call it.

Nforce

I'm sure that India would be tempted to purchase the carrier...at the right price. Maybe a package deal with the Harriers?

Tenger

Nforce wrote: »

I'm sure that India would be tempted to purchase the carrier...at the right price. Maybe a package deal with the Harriers?

Actually I think I read that India are planning on phasing out their Harriers in favour of the Mig-29K. India have an ex-UK carrier at the moment. The 1st of 2 domestically produced carriers is under construction The Indian are also waiting on the delivery of the ex-Adm Gorshov from Russia after buying it in 2004. So India will have sufficient carrier capability (3) without needing to take QE or PoW.

Steyr

Foggy43 wrote: »

Just thinking! Where would you mothball or store an aircraft carrier?

I doubt the UK have a dry dock big enough for one, unless they are going to moor her somewhere sheltered but keep a skeleton crew on board?

Steyr

**Update**

Seen on another site:

No JFH* flying on Fridays from now on. IV Sqn is not disbanding first, or moving to Cott. 41 Sqns jets will be leaving Coningsby sometime soon though for Cott/Witt.

JFH-Joint Force Harrier.

Cott/Witt-RAF Cottesmore/RAF Wittering.

Steyr

**UPDATE**

http://www.key.aero/view_news.asp?ID=2688&thisSection=military

First squadron loses its Harriers

The first Royal Air Force unit has lost its Harrier GR9s after the shock news of the type's withdrawal from service.

Gary Parsons - 4-Nov-2010



November 4: Nr. 41(R) Squadron based at RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire became the first Royal Air Force unit to lose its Harrier GR9s today as the three aircraft departed for RAF Cottesmore in Rutland.

The squadron is the Operational Evaluation Unit for the Harrier GR9 and Tornado GR4, but after the announcement of the axing of the Harrier in the recent Government Strategic Defence and Security Review will be left with just the Tornado.

“The announcement on October 19 was a complete surprise,” said Wing Commander Rich Davies, Officer Commanding 41(R) Squadron. “The official announcement came through the chain of command about two o’clock in the afternoon. It was a complete shock and hugely devastating. It was probably the worst day of my career.

“The timeline is perhaps the biggest shock – we all knew there would be dramatic cuts [in SDSR] but we didn’t think the timeline would be as quick as it’s been.” As well as losing three aircraft, four pilots are affected, although none of the engineering team is affected as they are all cross-skilled on both Tornado and Harrier.

Sqn Ldr Steve ‘Raz’ Berry is one of the four – “There’s a state of shell-shock [in the Harrier Force] on the front-line. Everyone’s chin is down – the Harrier Force as a whole is making sure that the drawdown in not done piece-meal and that everyone knows where they’re going.

“We were testing right to the end – we were three days off starting a really big programme at Boscombe Down that we’d cancelled leave for and were planning Saturday flying. You’re sprinting then suddenly told to stop, that momentum isn’t there any more.” Steve will be re-roled on to the Tornado GR4, as will another of his colleagues.

But 41’s work will continue – “We will gain another two Tornado GR4s to bring the total to five aircraft compared to the six we operated with both types,” said Wg Cdr Davies. “The team of engineers and analysts will remain unchanged.”

Any modifications that were on the Harriers specific to 41(R) have been removed and they will continue to fly from Cottesmore until the end of the year.