Tax Changes To Spark Surges In Farm Transfers

Pique

Does anyone here know anything more about this article in the Indo ?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tax-changes-to-spark-surge-in-farm-transfers-2394089.html
Is it hype or is there more to it ?

Daithi BC

If you were being cynical, you could view it as two solicitors trying to drum up business. They have no more idea of whether the Government will introduce these measures than we do, but it's a good way to scare people into taking action now and getting a few fees out of it.

Having said that, the commission for taxation has recommended reducing the allowances on farm transfers, and if those changes ever did go ahead, then transferring beforehand is obviously the sensible thing to do. I'd like to think that the IFA would strongly oppose them, but these days, any cut is possible.

Username John

Daithi BC wrote: »

If you were being cynical, you could view it as two solicitors trying to drum up business. They have no more idea of whether the Government will introduce these measures than we do, but it's a good way to scare people into taking action now and getting a few fees out of it.

Having said that, the commission for taxation has recommended reducing the allowances on farm transfers, and if those changes ever did go ahead, then transferring beforehand is obviously the sensible thing to do. I'd like to think that the IFA would strongly oppose them, but these days, any cut is possible.

Did the commission recommend figures, or just a broad statement?

reilig

Looks like a bot of propeganda - they're probably going to cut agriculture in the budget and then when there's uproar about the cut they will turn around and say - well its not as bad as the tax on farm transfers that were proposed.

Loads of hype out there across the board about cuts and tax increases. They're just preparing us for the worst so that we'll be happily surprised when cuts aren't as bad as they say they will be.

whelan1

reilig wrote: »

Looks like a bot of propeganda - they're probably going to cut agriculture in the budget and then when there's uproar about the cut they will turn around and say - well its not as bad as the tax on farm transfers that were proposed.

Loads of hype out there across the board about cuts and tax increases. They're just preparing us for the worst so that we'll be happily surprised when cuts aren't as bad as they say they will be.

hope you are right , there is a lot of doom and gloom around at the minute

Username John

reilig wrote: »

Looks like a bot of propeganda - they're probably going to cut agriculture in the budget and then when there's uproar about the cut they will turn around and say - well its not as bad as the tax on farm transfers that were proposed.

Loads of hype out there across the board about cuts and tax increases. They're just preparing us for the worst so that we'll be happily surprised when cuts aren't as bad as they say they will be.

Hopefully anyways...

Altho the way tis looking there wont be many happy surprises - sure soon we'll all be paying money to come to work, minimum school leaving age will be rasied to 42 to keep people off the live register, there will be a new law saying "only 1 car allowed per parish" (fecking greens) and trocaire type boxes will be sent to all homes for the young children to help bail out the banks...

Daithi BC

Username John wrote: »

Did the commission recommend figures, or just a broad statement?

They recommended specific figures. I don't remember what they were, but I'm fairly sure that the agricultural relief (CAT relief) was to go to 75% rather than 90%.

Tora Bora

What young fella in his right mind, would take a transfer of say 100 middeling acres, and have to pay maybe €100k tax, before milking a cow:eek: Then probably have to spend a fair few bob to modernise a bit, plus probably need to build a house on the farm.
Even if he was up for it, do you think he could get the money from the busted, broken, banks. Not a snowballs chance in hell!

About the only sector of the domestic economy spending a few bob, and invvesting a little is farming. Bring in this tax and you can say good night to all of that.

Dunedin

Daithi BC wrote: »

If you were being cynical, you could view it as two solicitors trying to drum up business. They have no more idea of whether the Government will introduce these measures than we do, but it's a good way to scare people into taking action now and getting a few fees out of it.

Having said that, the commission for taxation has recommended reducing the allowances on farm transfers, and if those changes ever did go ahead, then transferring beforehand is obviously the sensible thing to do. I'd like to think that the IFA would strongly oppose them, but these days, any cut is possible.

Let it be cynical or not but if you have anything to transfer now that is exempt from any tax/stamp duty, then I'd be gettign the finger out before the budget.

Govt really stuck for money so they will exhause all avenues.

I got caught by the installation aid in that way before the budget last year. I ticked all the boxes re qualifying but 'never got around to doing it'. Now, I accept that i may not have got the money anyway due to time to process the application but if I had the application in a year earlier when I could have had, then maybe I may have got my 15k...........

reilig

Tora Bora wrote: »

What young fella in his right mind, would take a transfer of say 100 middeling acres, and have to pay maybe €100k tax, before milking a cow:eek: Then probably have to spend a fair few bob to modernise a bit, plus probably need to build a house on the farm.
Even if he was up for it, do you think he could get the money from the busted, broken, banks. Not a snowballs chance in hell!

About the only sector of the domestic economy spending a few bob, and invvesting a little is farming. Bring in this tax and you can say good night to all of that.

Totally agree with you. Not one person will take the land if they have to take out a mortgage to pay the tax on it. It would wipe out farming totally and leave land worthless.

maidhc

Anyone care to explain how they figure a 200 acre farm is worth €3m?

I think there is a touch of hysteria about it to be honest.

whelan1

must be a fantastic house on it !, our transfer was for a few more acres than that and was valued at 1.5 million at the height of the "boom" with a house on it

locha

Had a look at the commission of taxation report last night... they want to bring the relief back from 90% to 75% and to put an upper limit of 3m on the amount that can be relieved i.e. the Maximum amount by which the value of the property may be reduced is 3m...this could change as when they were drafting thier recommendations land was making 15k an acre... reckon they will put some changes through....one could be the definition of a farmer...as anyone seems to qualify! interestingly they recommended keeping the Stamp Duty relief for young farmers up to 35 - due in no small part to the ageing population in farming. 25% of farmers are over 65, 26% are 55-64 and only 8% are under 34.

maidhc

locha wrote: »

one could be the definition of a farmer...as anyone seems to qualify! interestingly they recommended keeping the Stamp Duty relief for young farmers up to 35 - due in no small part to the ageing population in farming. 25% of farmers are over 65, 26% are 55-64 and only 8% are under 34.

Excellent point... I don't think too many would complain if the stamp duty defintion of "young trained farmer" was extended to cover CGT as well.

johnstown

Recommendations on Business/Ag relief from the Report of the Commission on Taxation 2009:

1. For business relief for CAT, a reduction of no more than 75% of the value of the business should be allowed before tax is calculated. The reduction should be subject to an overall monetary limit of €3 million.

2. For agricultural relief for CAT, a reduction of no more than 75% of the value of the property should be allowed before tax is calculated. The reduction should be subject to an overall monetary limit of €3 million. A condition of the relief should be that a farm asset is owned and operated as a farm for a period of six years after the transfer.

3. Business relief and agricultural relief should be amalgamated into a single relief.

The Commission on Taxation Report states that as with business relief, there is a case on social grounds to support the transfer of smaller farms to a new generation. However, the same argument does not apply in the case of larger farms (according to the report).

Essentially, they do not want to cripple small viable businesses/farms.

The interesting thing would be what they mean by "merging" business and agricultural relief. Agricultural relief extends to the farm house, money bequested to be invested in agriculture within a certain timeframe.

milkprofit

If transfer is imment get it done pronto
Farm or Site-no stamp duty in certain cases before budget
Ther will be changes for the worst