An open letter to all party leaders about unwarranted "expenses"

Liam Byrne

Dear Messrs Kenny, Gilmore & Cowen

I listened with disgust at an RTE news report this evening which highlighted how some of your members have claimed Dail attendance expenses while not in the Dáil due to the Icelandic volcano.

This is 100% unacceptable.

Many of those who claimed attendance expenses were not even on state business.

I can now 100% guarantee all of you that if these fraudulent expenses are not repaid immediately to the taxpayer that none of you will be getting a vote from me.

I could understand them being paid their wages, but like any normal working person in this country they should have had travel insurance and found their own ways of paying.

This is yet another absolute disgrace bringing politics further into disrepute and proving that politicians are insulated from the real world.

I await a public statement from each party leader stating that they have indicated that those involved either return these fraudulent expenses or be evicted from their party. The fact that it is "within the rules" is irrelevant, because the Dáil is supposed to make the rules in the interests of the country.

I have seen some outrageous goings on under the umbrella of politics in this country, and this is absolutely the last straw.

Get your act together and start acting in the interests of the country - NOW!

THAT is what you are paid for......you are OUR employees!

Sincerely (and disgustedly)
Liam Byrne
Limerick

murphaph

I am one of the few people who bother to write to politicians to tell them how I feel about such things. If only more people simply put pen to paper to INSTRUCT these people on our wishes, we'd be in a much better place. Fair play Liam.

(cue the usual cries form some who claim "they're all the same, they should know this already" etc. The problem is they are disjointed from reality and need letters like this to guide them back to earth).

carobu

Now more than ever people need to push to reduce the bill for politicians. It is not the public service as a whole that is at fault but the TDs and Higher paid civil service who serve very little purpose except to cost us a fortune. All their expenses should be cut back big time. Anytime a politician calls to my door in future I will ask them what their expenses bill is.

Sir Oxman

And just to place their names on record in this thread:

John O'Donoghue FF
James O'Reilly FG
Bernard Allen FG
Jim O'Keeffe FG

Claimed simply because they could and to enrich themselves.

Fo Real

Well done, Liam. You should probably add the independent Jackie Healy-Rae to the list. He is one of the worst offenders when it comes to expenses.

rodento

For once Fine Geal top the poll:eek:

flutered

i have emailed my two dff tds would they please ask their fellow party member, the euro sucker, donie cassidy how can i be expected to live on under 10,000 a year, when he cannot manage on 149,000.

maringo

I'd love to get paid for not turning up to work but I don't even get an attendance allowance when I do turn up !!!:mad:

Callan57

Submitted receipts included with all expense claims .... exactly the same as in every other business in this country. What is so difficult about this?:mad:

Einhard

Is it any surprise that John O'Donoghue should be on the list?

Nijmegen

Our politicians, across all benches, are - in general - a bunch of arrogant, money grabbing chancers.

I'd love to see a vother sentiment poll however, to guage how much of a real issue this is to people at the ballot box.

I wonder, I wonder? It's genuinely an interesting question.

NickDrake

what about the people sitting no Boards at Semi-States???

What about the chief exec of the ESB?

Should we not be going after them as well?

Nijmegen

NickDrake wrote: »

what about the people sitting no Boards at Semi-States???

What about the chief exec of the ESB?

Should we not be going after them as well?

The whole lot.

I think we need to reform every pay packet, allowance or expenses system across the state sector.

Floppybits

All politicians need to take a 50% pay cut to start with, all expenses need to be claimed with a valid receipt, on top of that clear guidelines need to the published as to what can and cant be claimed and all expenses that are claimed for regardless of whether they are paid for them or not should be made public.

More accountability, its time that we start seeing politicians resign when major cock ups occur in there area or found to be acting in a manner not becoming of a member of the dail, none of this burying the head or resigning as minister but keeping their seat.

Finally it is time to for a big change and I would like to see FF and FG disbanded and new parties formed that based more on a modern Ireland rather than on civil war politics. Ok at the start the new parties maybe full of the crap and it will take some time to work but we need to do something to remove this Civil war politics crap out of modern Ireland.

mikemac

Have you sent that letter to the party leaders?

They won't read it here
Just saying

maynooth_rules

Listening to Tony Killeen on Newstalk trying to defend the practice of having Guarda drivers bringing our ministers all around the country was nauseating.

spurious

Callan57 wrote: »

Submitted receipts included with all expense claims .... exactly the same as in every other business in this country. What is so difficult about this?:mad:

I can assure you if the lowly civil servant who will be processing the claims as much as claimed a busfare without producing the ticket they wouldn't be paid.

Liam Byrne

feelingstressed wrote: »

Have you sent that letter to the party leaders?

They won't read it here
Just saying

It's gone to the papers, and I'll send it to the party leaders later (although they'll probably have some relation-hired-as-a-secretary to open it and bin it).

Laminations

spurious wrote: »

I can assure you if the lowly civil servant who will be processing the claims as much as claimed a busfare without producing the ticket they wouldn't be paid.

Yep. Once upon a time I had an expense account. I had certain things, books and materials, conference travel, accommodation and food, that I could claim for. I had to pay up front, and then save the receipt to be reimbursed. No receipt = no reimbursement. Dodgy claim (not that I ever submitted one) = no reimbursement.

All totally transparent even if the upfront costs to me sometimes crippled my credit card while I waited the two months for reimbursement. Having to pay from your own pocket before reimbursement made you consider more clearly whether an expense was necessary

the groutch

and people are wondering why FG are strugging in the opinion polls.
they've had their hands in the cookie jar just as much as FF, people barely make any distinguishments between the two parties anymore.

Coillte_Bhoy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's gone to the papers, and I'll send it to the party leaders later (although they'll probably have some relation-hired-as-a-secretary to open it and bin it).

And do you expect them to read every single letter and eamil they receive???

DrumSteve

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And do you expect them to read every single letter and eamil they receive???

well apparently we dont send them enough letters so they shouldn't have a problem opening the few they get.

Liam Byrne

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And do you expect them to read every single letter and eamil they receive???

At this stage, only if it comes from "begging@angloirishbank.ie" and "attendees@galwaytent.ie"

DrumSteve

Liam Byrne wrote: »

At this stage, only if it comes from "begging@angloirishbank.ie" and "attendees@galwaytent.ie"

They could have used a less conspicuous email address...

Liam Byrne

DrumSteve wrote: »

They could have used a less conspicuous email address...

Nah.......they're openly flaunting their corruption and waste at this stage, and we're taking it up the arse, so why would they bother ?

Nijmegen

Let's not forget that when FG last came to power, they were broke and 4m Punts in the red. Within a year of functions and dinners, now attended by ministers rather than opposition spokesmen, they were back in black.

Labour is financially tied to the unions, and well, we've seen how the holier than thou champaign socialists have been spending our money. Just because he has a beard and is screaming about the "wurker" doesn't mean he's not enjoying his €100k+ salary, expense account, board memberships and junket opportunities.

I know we all have heard 'anecdotal' stories from the civil and public service - perhaps leading us to believe, in our more cynical moments, that the state is very opaque for reasons other than our benefit as citizens - and they have fun with expenses there, too.

For example, quango employees who regularly attend conferences around the country, who claim the overnight rate and mileage individually. Despite the fact that they all drive down in the same car early in the morning for their 10am start.

From simple white collar crime to questionable practices through subtle cash for access and on to brown envelopes stuffed with money, the top strata of the Irish golden circle use the taxpayer as a piggy bank.

Lenny Lovett

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I could understand them being paid their wages, but like any normal working person in this country they should have had travel insurance and found their own ways of paying.

I can't understand them being paid their wages in their absence. None were on official business. Most if not all "ordinary" people caught up in the debacle were forced to either take it as holidays or were docked their wages. I believe this included Public Servants so why the special treatment for these crooks. And crooks is what they are if they claimed Dáil expenses when they were not, in fact, there. The Guards should have been feeling their collars by now. It's fcukin scandalous.

gambiaman wrote: »

And just to place their names on record in this thread:

John O'Donoghue FF
James O'Reilly FG
Bernard Allen FG
Jim O'Keeffe FG

Claimed simply because they could and to enrich themselves.

They should be up for fraud. All of them. Funny how O'Donoghue's name always comes up when there's dodgy expenses involved.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And do you expect them to read every single letter and email they receive???

Yes! The lazy b**tards do fcuk all else.

Lenny Lovett

Nijmegen wrote: »

Let's not forget that when FG last came to power, they were broke and 4m Punts in the red. Within a year of functions and dinners, now attended by ministers rather than opposition spokesmen, they were back in black.

They all (FF, FG, Lab, Greens, and a few Indies) have their snouts in the trough. They're like fleas sucking blood out of us.

Nijmegen wrote: »

Labour is financially tied to the unions, and well, we've seen how the holier than thou champaign socialists have been spending our money. Just because he has a beard and is screaming about the "wurker" doesn't mean he's not enjoying his €100k+ salary, expense account, board memberships and junket opportunities.

Absolutely, and we've seen recently how they creamed off a load of our cash that, in the words of a famous character, is just resting in their account. Hence, I suppose why they couldn't drag the PS workers out on an all out strike last year. They'd been bought off by the Govt. with our tax revenue. Nice one lads!

Nijmegen wrote: »

I know we all have heard 'anecdotal' stories from the civil and public service - perhaps leading us to believe, in our more cynical moments, that the state is very opaque for reasons other than our benefit as citizens - and they have fun with expenses there, too.

For example, quango employees who regularly attend conferences around the country, who claim the overnight rate and mileage individually. Despite the fact that they all drive down in the same car early in the morning for their 10am start.

From simple white collar crime to questionable practices through subtle cash for access and on to brown envelopes stuffed with money, the top strata of the Irish golden circle use the taxpayer as a piggy bank.

The problem is that these people are watching the upper echelons of the Public Service and the Government ripping us off with their fraudulent expense rackets so, I suppose, they feel they should have a slug from the trough too. It's never going to be sorted out until the Fraud unit start taking these Departments apart and locking up a few. Fat chance of that happening though...

Zulu

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And do you expect them to read every single letter and eamil they receive???

In a word, yes.

Mac daddy

The reply I got, from a email I sent them earlier today..... all names have been removed.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:05 PM, <XXX.XXX@taoiseach.gov.ie> wrote:


Dear Mr. XXX

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email of 27 October, 2010 which will
be brought to the Taoiseach's attention as soon as possible.


Yours sincerely,


XXXX XXXX
Taoiseach's Private Office
Telephone: 01-6194020
E-mail: privateoffice@taoiseach.gov.ie

Lets see if they reply my guess would be no...

dan_d

Mac daddy wrote: »

The reply I got, from a email I sent them earlier today..... all names have been removed.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:05 PM, <XXX.XXX@taoiseach.gov.ie> wrote:


Dear Mr. XXX

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email of 27 October, 2010 which will
be brought to the Taoiseach's attention as soon as possible.


Yours sincerely,


XXXX XXXX
Taoiseach's Private Office
Telephone: 01-6194020
E-mail: privateoffice@taoiseach.gov.ie

Lets see if they reply my guess would be no...

Huh..well you got further than me.The few times I've sent emails in I've got back "the Taoiseach gets a lot of emails and cannot read them all, however we will pass your message along" (in fancy language obviously!).

Maybe the penny is slowly sinking in that people are p*&sed off....... Who knew? Fair play anyway.

Liam Byrne

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I can't understand them being paid their wages in their absence. None were on official business. Most if not all "ordinary" people caught up in the debacle were forced to either take it as holidays or were docked their wages.

Personally speaking, I would tend to agree, however since this would be open to debate due to some companies paying out of goodwill and the whole "the delays weren't their fault" angle, I wanted to focus the letter on the FACT that they were paid "attendance expenses" while NOT ATTENDING and NOT INCURRING SAID EXPENSES.

This is 100% defrauding of OUR money :mad:.

Big Mouth

Too many little angry man "protest" threads here, although this isn't as embarrassing as the Armed Revolt thread, (Armed with what? A butter knife. Don't make me laugh)

They way things are now I doubt any Politician would file dodgy expenses and I do hope the ones who did / or do are punished but for gods sake we should be more worried about getting the country back on track ASAP.

Get over that hurdle then worry about the smaller things.....

Liam Byrne

Big Mouth wrote: »

They way things are now I doubt any Politician would file dodgy expenses and I do hope the ones who did / or do are punished

They have, which is the whole point of the thread.

Big Mouth wrote: »

but for gods sake we should be more worried about getting the country back on track ASAP.

Getting the country back on track means accepting the cuts that the TDs propose; those cuts will not be accepted if TDs continue to milk us.

Big Mouth wrote: »

Get over that hurdle then worry about the smaller things.....

My granny used to say that looking after the pennies was the starting point, not the other way around.

Maybe every person filing their tax returns for next week should file "expenses" that they didn't incur too ? Do you think they'd get the OK and nod-wink if they did ?

bamboozle

from dictionary.com
expenses,
a. charges incurred during a business assignment or trip.

b. money paid as reimbursement for such charges: to receive a salary and expenses.

if these TD's were not on dail business how can they claim expenses?
the lack of leadership from FF Govt on such simple issues as this just clarifies for me how they'll never get us out of this mess cause their greed is getting in the way of leading by example and making simple changes to get their own dirty snouts out of the trough.

Shea O'Meara

Nijmegen wrote: »

Labour is financially tied to the unions,

*yawn*

FFail being tied to every private interest with enough money to spread around really worked out great for us. At least Unions have a mandate for workers and are not a private entity only beholding to whomever takes the envelope.
The unions have agreements in place which must be adhered to by the current government no more or less than Labour.

Nijmegen wrote: »

and well, we've seen how the holier than thou champaign socialists have been spending our money. Just because he has a beard and is screaming about the "wurker" doesn't mean he's not enjoying his €100k+ salary, expense account, board memberships and junket opportunities.

So 'they're all the same'? Well done working in the 'beard', that ol' chestnut cracks me up and the 'wurker' line had me rolling...my eyes.
I agree all parties need to commit to radical change, but lets lay off the clichés. You know like FFail members being greasy bastards....well actually...
FG's promise of doing away with ministerial cars, should be a small footnote not a policy to brag about.

Callan57

Big Mouth wrote: »

Too many little angry man "protest" threads here, although this isn't as embarrassing as the Armed Revolt thread, (Armed with what? A butter knife. Don't make me laugh)

They way things are now I doubt any Politician would file dodgy expenses and I do hope the ones who did / or do are punished but for gods sake we should be more worried about getting the country back on track ASAP.

Get over that hurdle then worry about the smaller things.....

Oh God Yea lets just screw the few remaining poor taxpayers & then get back to business as usual.
We can all be back here again in 10-20 years, expenses, cars, drivers, Galway tents, private jets, bonus payments etc etc
Now why can't we just accept that 'we are where we are' and move on.

My big worry is that we will forget & nothing will ever change.:(

flutered

every second poster is claiming that labour and the trade unions are intertwined, where as in fact it is dff, our former t-shock done quite well out of his friendship with the unions, even when there was a breakdown in labour relations who did the employers turn to, did not his mentor haughy have a potraith comissioned and presented to michael mullen, during the time he told us to tighten our belts, while he was wearing designer shirts the price of which the working man could not earn in a month,

Nijmegen

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

*yawn*

FFail being tied to every private interest with enough money to spread around really worked out great for us. At least Unions have a mandate for workers and are not a private entity only beholding to whomever takes the envelope.

No, the unions are (for the most part) beholding to their members, the majority of the influential ones whom are public sector and who have in all fairness been riding out the recession largely untouched compared to other segments of society.

Union leaders and union members are also two worlds apart. I'm sure most union members on the average industrial wage or below were delighted to hear about their leaders on the boards of such notable state agencies as FAS, or the junket training fund given to unions on which a quarter of taxi journeys were between 7pm and 4am between pubs, restaurants and hotels.

I agree about Fianna Fail.

The unions have agreements in place which must be adhered to by the current government no more or less than Labour.

Yes, the deal that says that when we're earning €30bn and spending €55bn and need to make cuts, we can't make them out of the huge amount of public spending that goes on public sector pay.

I think even Labour know that deal is a non-runner. They're just not man enough to tell us before the election.

So 'they're all the same'? Well done working in the 'beard', that ol' chestnut cracks me up and the 'wurker' line had me rolling...my eyes.
I agree all parties need to commit to radical change, but lets lay off the clichés. You know like FFail members being greasy bastards....well actually...

Yes, I do believe that at the top be they red, blue, green or yellow politicians, union leaders, bankers, senior civil servants... They're not enduring very much pain compared to the average joe in the street, and they didn't complain very much while their salaries, bonuses (I'm sorry, salaries), expenses or junket funds were going through the ceiling.

They're also not too quick to hand any of it back. Jack O'C was on the radio a few months back and said his salary was fair, and 'more akin to middle management in the private sector.'

I tell you, I wish I had started working in companies like Jack knows about.

The only true idealogue who puts his money where his socialistic mouth is, that I know of, is Joe Higgins. He gets more brownie points from me, a businessman and a capitalist through and through, than any other politician of any other party.

FG's promise of doing away with ministerial cars, should be a small footnote not a policy to brag about.

Agreed, wholly. The whole system needs a change, top to bottom.

Liam Byrne

Well, for all 3, I've gotten automated replies from some unknown and unelected people that the emails weren't sent to.

I probably wasn't expecting much better, but I was hoping.

Big Mouth

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well, for all 3, I've gotten automated replies from some unknown and unelected people that the emails weren't sent to.

I probably wasn't expecting much better, but I was hoping.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeah you should have at least got a face to face meeting with Brian Cowen and other members of the Cabinet. Its disgusting that they didn't do that or even have your letter read out as lead piece on Prime Time.

The cheek of them to send you these shabby auto relpies, have they got nothing better to do at the moment?

Ah nuts

Good work Liam. Who said people power was gone.

Liam Byrne

Well I did get a reply today from (a representative of) Eamonn Gilmore, and it indicated that those who claimed this have copped themselves on and backed down.

Anyone heard about this climbdown of the con-men from any other sources ?

Lenny Lovett

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well I did get a reply today from (a representative of) Eamonn Gilmore, and it indicated that those who claimed this have copped themselves on and backed down.

Anyone heard about this climbdown of the con-men from any other sources ?

Yeah... On The Right Hook Newsreader was saying that they had withdrawn the claim. Anyway the people involved said that it was all a big misunderstanding don't you know :rolleyes: . They had never intended to get money for it... They merely felt it would look bad for their attendance record so that's why they did it. Imagine standing up in front of a Judge and trying to feed him that ****? He'd have you down the cells like greased lightening...

Liam Byrne

Is there - naaawww, it couldn't be - is there ANY chance that an email from me actually got results ?

FFS, if there's any chance that that could even be remotely true, we should start emailing to complain about all of their corruption and pocket-lining activities!!!!

Mind you, can a mail server take that much traffic (population of 4.5 million x at least 10 sickening revelations per week) ?

NewHillel

bamboozle wrote: »

from dictionary.com
expenses,
a. charges incurred during a business assignment or trip.

b. money paid as reimbursement for such charges: to receive a salary and expenses.

if these TD's were not on dail business how can they claim expenses?
the lack of leadership from FF Govt on such simple issues as this just clarifies for me how they'll never get us out of this mess cause their greed is getting in the way of leading by example and making simple changes to get their own dirty snouts out of the trough.

I agree, low standards in high(ish) places. However, the practice is also widespread accross the public sector. The only answer is receipted expenses, like the private sector. (With no ifs or buts.)

carobu

NewHillel wrote: »

I agree, low standards in high(ish) places. However, the practice is also widespread accross the public sector. The only answer is receipted expenses, like the private sector. (With no ifs or buts.)

I am continually amazed at how many people have been sucked in by the Governments plan to play the private sector against the public sector. Please look a little deeper and identify the specific sectors within the public sector that take advantage such as the politicians themselves, officers within the civil service and Hospital Ceo's, directors of services and high level managers, basically alot of the non hands on people. There are also many people within the private sector who have contributed to this major crisis not least the bankers, developers who continue to live the high lifestyle. The issue is not the public versus the private but the highest earners who seem seem to earn amounts of money ordinary people wouldn't even dream of and still get an expense for every thing they can think of.

I do completely agree that all expenses should be receipted as well as a huge reduction in perks politicians and committees and ceo's get.