Advice on improving stride length & form

--amadeus--

When I'm running in my minds eye I look like a gazelle gliding effortlessly across the African savannah. So it came as something of a surprise when I looked at the video from my last race and and I saw that I actually looked like a disconnected puppet being controlled by a hyperactive 3yr old...

In particular when I compared my stride to the people running around me it was significantly shorter and "choppier". As a result of the short stride my cadence seemed to be far higher than the people around me - I seemed to be working harder to run at the same pace.

Which is frustrating as form is something I had worked on with strides and form focusses in training. When I concentrated during the race I seemed able to lengthen the stride and so drop the cadence but I want that to be automatic.

Any advice on how to increase stride length (exercises, stretches, etc)? Any advice on improving running form?

Thanks!

monkeypants

I've no idea, but I'm very interested in whatever replies you get as I have a similar problem.

BeepBeep67

--amadeus-- wrote: »

When I'm running in my minds eye I look like a gazelle gliding effortlessly across the African savannah. So it came as something of a surprise when I looked at the video from my last race and and I saw that I actually looked like a disconnected puppet being controlled by a hyperactive 3yr old...

In particular when I compared my stride to the people running around me it was significantly shorter and "choppier". As a result of the short stride my cadence seemed to be far higher than the people around me - I seemed to be working harder to run at the same pace.

Which is frustrating as form is something I had worked on with strides and form focusses in training. When I concentrated during the race I seemed able to lengthen the stride and so drop the cadence but I want that to be automatic.

Any advice on how to increase stride length (exercises, stretches, etc)? Any advice on improving running form?

Thanks!

Good article in last months Runner's World using plyometics - don't see online yet so if you'd like it let me know and I'll get it to you.

Woddle

I asked the same question last year, hope you get sth out of this.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055550623&highlight=stride

sean_84

There's lots (and lots) of information about running form here:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/01/running-technique.html

The main conclusions seem to be that your shoulders and neck should be relaxed, hips should be forward, your foot shouldn't land too far in front of your body, and don't worry about what part of your foot hits the ground first. And apparently the best way to improve form is to do lots of running, and it should happen naturally.

About stride rate, a range of 90-95 steps/minute is normal for elites, so you could measure yours to see how it compares.

Anyway, be careful with trying to make very big changes to your running technique, especially if you are running injury-free at the moment.

ecoli

This is something that i feel alot of people ignore. There idea is to run faster you either a)run more miles b) run intervals faster c)shorten recovery. This all are good but if you look at most of the elites you see that its there supplimenatary work that seperates them from the average runner.

Drills, plyometrics, short hills, calastetics, short sprints (up to 50m)

These things should be incorporated into any training plan and are as important as the miles you clock

These are also something that should be taken on board by runners of all ages (not just for the teens and 20s)

They should be done at the start of a training when the legs are fresh to allow the muscles to fire on all cylinders

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/plymo.htm

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/agility-exercises.html

This is a particularly good one:
http://info.specialolympics.org/Special+Olympics+Public+Website/English/Coach/Coaching_Guides/Athletics/Teaching+Athletics+Event+Skills/Drills+for+Sprinters.htm

http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_241_calisthenics-exercises.html

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hilltrain.htm

Hope these help set you on your way

tergat

--amadeus-- wrote: »

When I'm running in my minds eye I look like a gazelle gliding effortlessly across the African savannah. So it came as something of a surprise when I looked at the video from my last race and and I saw that I actually looked like a disconnected puppet being controlled by a hyperactive 3yr old...

In particular when I compared my stride to the people running around me it was significantly shorter and "choppier". As a result of the short stride my cadence seemed to be far higher than the people around me - I seemed to be working harder to run at the same pace.

Which is frustrating as form is something I had worked on with strides and form focusses in training. When I concentrated during the race I seemed able to lengthen the stride and so drop the cadence but I want that to be automatic.

Any advice on how to increase stride length (exercises, stretches, etc)? Any advice on improving running form?

Thanks!

amadeus,

Improve stride length naturally by running hills! Don't try to lengthen your stride while you are running on the flats or you will end up overstriding. Anytime you don't plant your foot underneath your hip a breaking of momentuum is created - thus slowing you down.

Let me say another thing, stride length will change during races in which runners have insufficient strength-endurance. A guy may run along at 180 strides per minute from start to finish but his stride reduces in length by 4-6 inches in the latter part of the race if his strength-endurance is low. Run on hills, use tempo paces, do circuits etc to improve this.

A simple way of improving running form is by running more. Frequency of running is directly linked to efficiency. If you run more often, you improve your efficiency. You run along using less energy. You extend your stamina. You simply don't get tired like you used to.

It also boils down to taking less days off and building to being able to run 6-7 days a week consistently, ideally 7.

My opinion on taking days off? If your sick, rest and don't run. If your injured, the same. If it is a planned rest break at the end of a long, hard season, sure. Otherwise, taking days off is not good. If you take one off, it's for mental relaxation, not typically because your body really needs it. A slow run when you are tired actually does you far more good than resting.

When you take days off, you end up getting more injured - just after you return. The problem with taking days off is three-fold. First, you lose blood volume, which effect VO2 max and efficiency. The problem is, you gain a bit of musculuar power and you are fooled into thinking that the day off "did some good." The truth is, people push too hard, relative to their cardio-vascular capacity, when they return because their legs are more powerful. A good amount of that feeling of power in your legs is because you boosted the glycogen into your muscles. They have more short-term power because they have more sugar. The second problem with taking a day off is lack of awareness of self. That is, motor-neural and sensory awareness are diminished. You simply lose touch with effort, coordination is reduced, even though power or feeling of power is present. If you lose sensory awareness, you don't realize you are pushing too hard. The third problem with taking days off is mental - you think you can push harder when you come back after resting. Pushing harder is often NOT a good idea.

There are ways to take a day off here and there and be succesful. One must follow strict rules to avoid injuries and setbacks due to days off. For example, my rule is never run a hard day or race after a rest day. The days that follow that hard day or race often tend to be compromised, first of all, but second of all injury rates goes up quite a bit. So, if you take a day off, be sure to run easily the day after. That will save you the grief of injury and sore legs for 2-3 days.

I understand that busy adults, amateurs, have to take days off due to obligations and burning that candle at both ends. I am in that arena, too.

One final note - NO matter how it is debated, if you run more often you'll race faster. It is that simple. If you take days off, as I do, then expect that you aren't going to reach your potential. You can lift weights, and that is fine, but it still isn't as good as putting in a short run at an easy pace. You make a choice, a personal one, and you live with it, but don't delude yourself into the thinking that taking days off regularly is the best way to make you race faster. It isn't!

Remember, CONSISTENCY is what counts more than any other training tool. Why? It works, first of all. Second, if you are consistent in your training, then you are training, not straining. If you are straining, you are inviting breakdown; structural or chemical.

"You must learn to spread your energy over many days, weeks, and months. Nobody becomes a champion in a day."

Tergat

TheRoadRunner

Cheers Tergat. What you say does make some sense but apart from personal experience is there anything out there to back up your view?

I find that I get injured more frequently when I don't take rest days. I may not meet my running potential but in the long term I think missing 1 day every 10-14 days is more beneficial in the long term as I miss much less time through injury.

monkeypants

tergat wrote: »

Improve stride length naturally by running hills!

Please pardon what's probably a stupid question, but I assume you mean running down hills?

ecoli

monkeypants wrote: »

Please pardon what's probably a stupid question, but I assume you mean running down hills?

Believe it or not there are more benefits to be gained from uphill running. By "driving" up hills you are developing power in calf muscles and lower legs which help with the running movement. as you are pushing from your lower legs the more strength you have the greater distance your stride will cover and greater running form you will develop.

Running downhill has been used for raw speed development however given the fact your stride is exaggerated by the nature of down hill running this greatly increases the risk of injury and personally i would feel that the risks outweigh the benefits

--amadeus--

BB I don't know if it would be possible for you to scan that article? If it's the current issue of RW I can grab a copy in town.

As for the rest, excellent stuff, thanks a million, lots (and lots) of reading in those links. I'm going to be doing more speedwork and hills in the new training schedule anyway and it sounds like that (along with the greater training volumes) will go some way to fixing the "problem" anyway but I'll probably tweak stuff after I've read through all the stuff linked.

Thanks folks

RoyMcC

Interesting subject. I'm sure tergat is correct in that strength training will result in the maintenance of a good stride length for longer. However many good strong runners do have a chopped gait and I do think this can be worked on through drills, fast strides etc.

I was overtaken on a training run recently by one of our old-timers, a little fella, and even on an easy run his recovery foot was way up his back and it's no wonder he eats up the ground at twice the rate I do.

I read tergat's other advice on rest days with interest. I wonder if his views hold good for us older, rubbish runners who grasp a rest day like a drowning man grasps a straw?

RoyMcC

--amadeus-- wrote: »

BB I don't know if it would be possible for you to scan that article? If it's the current issue of RW I can grab a copy in town.

Yes it's in the current (November) issue but really it's no more than an illustration of basic plyo drills with a good rationale as to why they work.

tergat

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Cheers Tergat. What you say does make some sense but apart from personal experience is there anything out there to back up your view?

I find that I get injured more frequently when I don't take rest days. I may not meet my running potential but in the long term I think missing 1 day every 10-14 days is more beneficial in the long term as I miss much less time through injury.

The RoadRunner,

Anything I quote here I have picked up from other various sources and from personal coaching experience and trying things out. I dont post anything I am not sure works. Again it is just advice and it is peoples own choice whether to use some of the ideas or not. Give it a try and see if it works.

Every day you don't run you lose efficiency at a rate of 3 to 1. One day off is like going backward 3 days in your training program. Dr. Edward Coyle, exercise physiologist of renown, has studied detraining effects and concluded just that.

An American coach I know measured runners in two specific ways. He had them run at 80% of VO2 max on a treadmill - 10 minutes - the day before and after a day off from running. Predictably, their heart rate and their blood lacates were higher after a day off. And, in most cases, their perceived exertion worsened, too. That is, 80% felt harder than it did two days earlier (before the day off from running).

He estimated that 80% of runners do NOT benefit from a day off and only 20% do. And the 20% that do need it because they typically lacked self-control in their training prior to the day off. That is, they were over-reaching for a few days prior to the day off (working too hard for their current ability) and the day off was a corrective measure for lack of self-control or lack of self-knowledge.

IF you are the 1 in 5 (20%), then a day off each week is probably going to correct your over-reaching tendencies. Then, take the day off. That's ok. Just don't start taking days off out of habit. That's not smart. That's lazy. If your not a serious runner, not in it to improve optimally, then take days off and ignore the information stated above. It doesn't matter, then.

Even if it is 10-15 mins on a 6th or 7th day for the week that will help and you can build up slowly over time.

Hope that helps.

Tergat

tergat

monkeypants wrote: »

Please pardon what's probably a stupid question, but I assume you mean running down hills?

monkeypants,

No running uphill not downhill. As Ecoli pointed out downhill running can lead to injuries so be careful.

I believe most runners are stuck on plateaus because they lack leg strength and power. They work and work and work on intervals and tempos and race-pace or faster than race-pace, but they don't move off a plateau; until they do hill reps, which improve power output.

Tergat

tergat

RoyMcC wrote: »

Interesting subject. I'm sure tergat is correct in that strength training will result in the maintenance of a good stride length for longer. However many good strong runners do have a chopped gait and I do think this can be worked on through drills, fast strides etc.

I was overtaken on a training run recently by one of our old-timers, a little fella, and even on an easy run his recovery foot was way up his back and it's no wonder he eats up the ground at twice the rate I do.

I read tergat's other advice on rest days with interest. I wonder if his views hold good for us older, rubbish runners who grasp a rest day like a drowning man grasps a straw?

RoyMcC,

I think it holds true for most runners. Read the piece I just left for the RoadRunner and see if it helps. Try building up slowly to running everyday over time starting with 10-15 mins very easy on normal rest days and see how you get on.

Tergat

YFlyer

tergat wrote: »

The RoadRunner,

Anything I quote here I have picked up from other various sources and from personal coaching experience and trying things out. I dont post anything I am not sure works. Again it is just advice and it is peoples own choice whether to use some of the ideas or not. Give it a try and see if it works.

Every day you don't run you lose efficiency at a rate of 3 to 1. One day off is like going backward 3 days in your training program. Dr. Edward Coyle, exercise physiologist of renown, has studied detraining effects and concluded just that.

An American coach I know measured runners in two specific ways. He had them run at 80% of VO2 max on a treadmill - 10 minutes - the day before and after a day off from running. Predictably, their heart rate and their blood lacates were higher after a day off. And, in most cases, their perceived exertion worsened, too. That is, 80% felt harder than it did two days earlier (before the day off from running).

He estimated that 80% of runners do NOT benefit from a day off and only 20% do. And the 20% that do need it because they typically lacked self-control in their training prior to the day off. That is, they were over-reaching for a few days prior to the day off (working too hard for their current ability) and the day off was a corrective measure for lack of self-control or lack of self-knowledge.

IF you are the 1 in 5 (20%), then a day off each week is probably going to correct your over-reaching tendencies. Then, take the day off. That's ok. Just don't start taking days off out of habit. That's not smart. That's lazy. If your not a serious runner, not in it to improve optimally, then take days off and ignore the information stated above. It doesn't matter, then.

Even if it is 10-15 mins on a 6th or 7th day for the week that will help and you can build up slowly over time.

Hope that helps.

Tergat

Hi Tergat

Thank you for the following.

However, I was just looking at some of Dr. Edward Doyle papers. I have not found the papers yet that he suggest training everyday or most days. What I have notice from the papers that I have read in regard to carbohydrate loading, fluid intake, and deconditioning & retention of adaptation induced by endurance training is that he is mainly talking about enducance athletes.

Is the advise to train everyday for the endurance athletes or does it include athletes involve in middle distances and 'shorter' long distances (i.e. 10 K) training?

Thanks!

jayok77

Is the advise to train everyday for the endurance athletes or does it include athletes involve in middle distances and 'shorter' long distances (i.e. 10 K) training?

World famous running coach Arthur Lydiard said that "You can never harm yourself by jogging and it will usually help to overcome the soreness or tiredness, whereas fast training can lead to injury and make you more tired."

You can see an invaluable piece of running literature here which touches on all of his methodologies and is further explained by one of his disciples Nobuya “Nobby” Hashizume who explains some of the more specific details.

You will see the example 10km and Marathon programs all involve 7 days of training. There is no quick fix no matter how much we may try. A fascinating read and I have been a convert for quite a while now.

http://www.freewebs.com/velodynamics2/LydiardIowa99.pdf

fiddy3

Just to add a bit of balance, Paula Radcliffe used to do 7 days on, 1 day off in her marathon buildup, and it's fair to say a 2:15 shows she achieved her potential. Of course, it should be noted she did 140 miles in those 7 days so the rest day was fairly well warranted. Sammy Wanjiru also says he usually takes sundays off, though for a lot of kenyans it's for religious reasons, but still, they certainly don't seem to regress as a result of a regular day off.

eon1208

tergat wrote: »

monkeypants,

No running uphill not downhill. As Ecoli pointed out downhill running can lead to injuries so be careful.

I believe most runners are stuck on plateaus because they lack leg strength and power. They work and work and work on intervals and tempos and race-pace or faster than race-pace, but they don't move off a plateau; until they do hill reps, which improve power output.

Tergat

We do quite serious 5 to 7.5 mile tempo runs on quite serious hilly loops rather than reps, its the culture in our club rather than short hill reps.. What do you think

tergat

YFlyer wrote: »

Hi Tergat

Thank you for the following.

However, I was just looking at some of Dr. Edward Doyle papers. I have not found the papers yet that he suggest training everyday or most days. What I have notice from the papers that I have read in regard to carbohydrate loading, fluid intake, and deconditioning & retention of adaptation induced by endurance training is that he is mainly talking about enducance athletes.

Is the advise to train everyday for the endurance athletes or does it include athletes involve in middle distances and 'shorter' long distances (i.e. 10 K) training?

Thanks!

YFlyer,

Sorry you may have picked me up wrong. The research was into the detraining affect of days off and it was the American coach that advised running every day.

Also this applies to runners from 800m up to marathon and for those 18+. Obviously it must be gradually worked up to over time i.e if you only run 3 times a week dont try going to 7 times straight away.

Tergat

tergat

eon1208 wrote: »

We do quite serious 5 to 7.5 mile tempo runs on quite serious hilly loops rather than reps, its the culture in our club rather than short hill reps.. What do you think

eon1208,

That is perfectly fine once you run on hills twice a week e.g tempo and long run.

Tergat

eon1208

tergat wrote: »

eon1208,

That is perfectly fine once you run on hills twice a week e.g tempo and long run.

Tergat

How would you feel about doing the tempo and long run in the mountains on succesive weekend days due to time constraints during the week in daylight hours.. Have been doing this, do you thik its detrimental or is this type of supercompensation good... Regards

--amadeus--

Tergat,

This is a real tangent but I'm going to grab you while I can

I'm looking to make a step up in performance and so have been planning my next marathon training cycle. Up to now I've followed P&D and the standard long run progression. Last time I did 3*20 and 2*21 LSRs with some as progression runs.

This time I am considering mixing in Daniels Q1 & Q2 sessions (speedwork and long runs) in place of the P&D equivalents. Daniels has very, very tough long runs. For example 4 miles Easy then 8 @ PMP, 1 @ Threashold then 6 @ PMP, 1 @ Threashold and finish with 2 @ E

What is your opinion of a workout like that for a recreational standard runner?

Thanks

dna_leri

tergat wrote: »

monkeypants,

No running uphill not downhill. As Ecoli pointed out downhill running can lead to injuries so be careful.

I believe most runners are stuck on plateaus because they lack leg strength and power. They work and work and work on intervals and tempos and race-pace or faster than race-pace, but they don't move off a plateau; until they do hill reps, which improve power output.

Tergat

For those of you interested in trying steep hill sprints, see also this article:
http://running.competitor.com/2010/10/training/steep-hill-sprints_9050

These short, maximum-intensity efforts against gravity provide two key benefits. First, they strengthen all of the running muscles, making the runner much less injury-prone. They also increase the power and efficiency of the stride, enabling the runner to cover more ground with each stride with less energy in race circumstances. These are significant benefits from a training method that takes very little time and is fun to do.

tergat

eon1208 wrote: »

How would you feel about doing the tempo and long run in the mountains on succesive weekend days due to time constraints during the week in daylight hours.. Have been doing this, do you thik its detrimental or is this type of supercompensation good... Regards

eon1208,

I really think it depends on your training history and injury history. It is risky and the likelyhood of getting injured doing this is high. I always prescribe 2 days easy running between workout days for my runners and an easy day after a long run also. This way you allow the body fully recover without risking injury or at least lower the chances of injury.

Key factors I look at when prescribing training for an individual are as follows:

1) Performance level. A fitter runner can absorb more fast running without breaking down.

2) Training consistency. A runner who trains at a decent level for several weeks or months without having setbacks or time off due to injury or illness can handle more quality training per workout and per week.

3) Technical skill. Someone who "pounds the ground," overstrides, leans too much or pronates too much is more likely to have problems when doing high volume quality training.

4) Weekly aerobic volume. A runner who has been covering more miles per week, for several weeks, can handle more quality interval work than one who has been doing lower mileage over a shorter time-frame.

5) Life stress. If you work a lot and have family obligations, you can't do as much quality interval training per workout or per week as someone who is "stress-free."

You can only train as hard as you can recover!

Tergat

tergat

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Tergat,

This is a real tangent but I'm going to grab you while I can

I'm looking to make a step up in performance and so have been planning my next marathon training cycle. Up to now I've followed P&D and the standard long run progression. Last time I did 3*20 and 2*21 LSRs with some as progression runs.

This time I am considering mixing in Daniels Q1 & Q2 sessions (speedwork and long runs) in place of the P&D equivalents. Daniels has very, very tough long runs. For example 4 miles Easy then 8 @ PMP, 1 @ Threashold then 6 @ PMP, 1 @ Threashold and finish with 2 @ E

What is your opinion of a workout like that for a recreational standard runner?

Thanks

amadeus,

I think the workout you quoted above is overkill for someone unless you are running at least 70+ miles a week and are running in the sub 2.50 area. Also would want to have a injury free history.

I would keep things simple building up Long Run to 20 miles or so with last 3-5miles at marathon pace and focusing on big workouts. I posted this stuff before but details below:

Marathon Training is all about two words: Big Workouts. It really is that simple. Whenever you prepare for the marathon, you need to do workouts that last a long time, twice per week. If you have a history of injuries or breaking down easily that may mean you should do only One Big Workout per week.

I’ve never believed that high mileage is necessarily the best way to train for marathons. Though mileage builds aerobic capacity, it is not specific. Big Workouts, on the other hand, are specific. They simulate the demands of the event. That’s the key!

Big workouts vary in length or duration relative to a runner’s ability and experience, but generally “Big” means at least 90 minutes of continuous running. When you run more than 90 minutes three important elements of exercise physiology are improved: glycogen storing, fat burning, and shock absorption. This doesn’t even include the mental elements: relaxation while tired, concentration, and tenacity.

Big workout examples (Easy 2-4 miles before & after workout all done continuosley):
- 4 x 2-3 miles @ MP, jog 2 minutes between
- 4 x 1.5-2 miles @ HMP, jog 2 minutes between

One final note, do take care to build up to Big Workouts slowly.

Tergat

--amadeus--

tergat wrote: »

amadeus,

I think the workout you quoted above is overkill for someone unless you are running at least 70+ miles a week and are running in the sub 2.50 area. Also would want to have a injury free history.

I would keep things simple building up Long Run to 20 miles or so with last 3-5miles at marathon pace and focusing on big workouts. I posted this stuff before but details below:

Marathon Training is all about two words: Big Workouts. It really is that simple. Whenever you prepare for the marathon, you need to do workouts that last a long time, twice per week. If you have a history of injuries or breaking down easily that may mean you should do only One Big Workout per week.

I’ve never believed that high mileage is necessarily the best way to train for marathons. Though mileage builds aerobic capacity, it is not specific. Big Workouts, on the other hand, are specific. They simulate the demands of the event. That’s the key!

Big workouts vary in length or duration relative to a runner’s ability and experience, but generally “Big” means at least 90 minutes of continuous running. When you run more than 90 minutes three important elements of exercise physiology are improved: glycogen storing, fat burning, and shock absorption. This doesn’t even include the mental elements: relaxation while tired, concentration, and tenacity.

Big workout examples (Easy 2-4 miles before & after workout all done continuosley):
- 4 x 2-3 miles @ MP, jog 2 minutes between
- 4 x 1.5-2 miles @ HMP, jog 2 minutes between

One final note, do take care to build up to Big Workouts slowly.

Tergat

Thanks for that. In training last time I peaked at 76 mpw and am targeting 2:50 - 2:55 this time out. I've been running since 2005 and (touch wood) I've never had a serious (or even semi serious) injury. I like the look of the session you have just detailed though, would be an ideal bridge into some of teh tougher Daniels workouts

ezr

Does anyone have any good exercises to improve hip flexibility and strength. I find it difficult to keep my hips 'forward' when running.

Cheers

gerard65

ezr wrote: »

Does anyone have any good exercises to improve hip flexibility and strength. I find it difficult to keep my hips 'forward' when running.

Cheers

Sex:D

TheRoadRunner

fiddy3 wrote: »

Just to add a bit of balance, Paula Radcliffe used to do 7 days on, 1 day off in her marathon buildup, and it's fair to say a 2:15 shows she achieved her potential. Of course, it should be noted she did 140 miles in those 7 days so the rest day was fairly well warranted. Sammy Wanjiru also says he usually takes sundays off, though for a lot of kenyans it's for religious reasons, but still, they certainly don't seem to regress as a result of a regular day off.

Similarly I remember reading mark carolls training diary and he had 10 days on and 2 complete days off. Having said that I do see the merit of Tergat's philosophy. This is something a friend of mine also believes in and he makes the point that while we had no real structure when we were teenagers one of the reasons he believes we ran faster then compared to now was everyday we were running in some way. And I do think there is something in that.

I suppose my fear of injury may be due to running my slow runs too fast. Something I'm definitely guilty of.

GoHardOrGoHome

YFlyer wrote: »

Is the advise to train everyday for the endurance athletes or does it include athletes involve in middle distances and 'shorter' long distances (i.e. 10 K) training?

Thanks!

Short distance is 400m or less (I think), middle distance is 800m-3000m. Anything longer than this is considered endurance.

Open to correction on that, not sure if that was helpful!

aero2k

Hi Amadeus,

I've been following this thread with interest, as it's something I've been struggling with, as well as being an area where I suspect there's significant potential for improvement in pace.

I think this point is contained in many of the replies above, but not stated explicitly: it's not about stride length but more about having a powerful stride - i.e. being able to apply a strong backward force to the ground that propels you forward. From what I've read, and my own experience, consciously or subconsciously trying to lengthen your stride results in stretching your leading leg out too far in front of you, landing straight-legged on your heel, and thus achieving the opposite of the desired effect.

You may have seen this, and while these runners do seem to have a much greater range of motion in their legs than ordinary mortals, particularly with the trailing leg, their leading foot hits the ground more or less underneath them, and it is the force they exert during ground contact that gives them the superior speed.

BTW Jack Daniels suggests a stride rate of 90 per minute (per leg), apparently runners at all distances from 3k upwards run at around this rate.

jayok77

aero2k wrote: »

BTW Jack Daniels suggests a stride rate of 90 per minute (per leg), apparently runners at all distances from 3k upwards run at around this rate.

Jack Daniels always makes me run faster! Usually at about 4am after leaving a nightclub in town and thinking "Taxi?? ppffft! Sure I'll just run the 15km home at 5km pace!"

aero2k

Interesting stuff here and here - a bit wordy and technical, but it is a pretty complex topic.

seanynova

aero2k wrote: »

BTW Jack Daniels suggests a stride rate of 90 per minute (per leg), apparently runners at all distances from 3k upwards run at around this rate.

i have tried this, cant do it without running fast...

i think you would want to be running at around 7m/m or less to be able to get close to that kinda of cadence without your stride being like baby steps and thus not helping anything....

as im finished marathon training, im working on the small things for now while i can, checking my cadense, which seams to be around 80pm, pretty weak but at the mo im running around 7:30-8:00m/m.

the other thing im consious about in my foot plant, i thought i has more or less converted myself to a mid-foot striker but photos of DCM all have me dorsaflexing(maybe its cos i wore flats and the ball of my feet were sore from early on) but im going to try and work on that over the next few weeks also...

i guess ill try hill reps from the above suggestions also...my be 50-100m...

what you you think regarding the cadnece? have you tried it?

aero2k

seanynova wrote: »

what you you think regarding the cadence? have you tried it?

I haven't tried to alter my cadence - any time I've checked it seems to be 90-95.

Yes, this means baby steps when running at 8-8:30 per mile, but it feels okay for me.

seanynova

aero2k wrote: »

I haven't tried to alter my cadence - any time I've checked it seems to be 90-95.

Yes, this means baby steps when running at 8-8:30 per mile, but it feels okay for me.

good going then, i wish it would feel ok for me but i cant cant do it.....must be the way to go though, so ill keep trying it, maybe 82-84stm first and move up from there...