Blanket Fianna Fail Investigation

McTigs

I was thinking this afternoon on seeing the faces of four more FF gombeens after getting hauled before the courts on corruption charges.... is it time to carry out random investigations ito the dealings of anyone who is a member of the Fianna fail party?

Between Haughey, Aherne, Cooper-Flynn, Lawlor, Stroke Fahy and countless other too many to mention over the decades can we just assume that any member of FF is either ok with corruption or is involved in some level of illegal activity themselves.

I'm pretty sure what would be uncovered in a relatively small lenght of time would be enough to warrant branding it a "criminal organisation" under law.

are the resources there or is this just wishfull thinkig?

Poly

They wouldn't even have to go in with the boot, I'd say a "random" revenue audit would rattle a few cages.

PatsytheNazi

McTigs wrote: »

I was thinking this afternoon on seeing the faces of four more FF gombeens after getting hauled before the courts on corruption charges.... is it time to carry out random investigations ito the dealings of anyone who is a member of the Fianna fail party?

Between Haughey, Aherne, Cooper-Flynn, Lawlor, Stroke Fahy and countless other too many to mention over the decades can we just assume that any member of FF is either ok with corruption or is involved in some level of illegal activity themselves.

I'm pretty sure what would be uncovered in a relatively small lenght of time would be enough to warrant branding it a "criminal organisation" under law.

are the resources there or is this just wishfull thinkig?

Good thread, thought about this myself. Should they be proscribed as the organization that is greatest threat to the welfare of the citizens of this state ? Are they just a criminal conspiracy disguised as a political party ?

But it's just wishful thinking. Snotty FF otherwise known as FG would never do that to their old 'friends' in FF. If that was the case, most business leaders etc would also be looking at prison. The establishment don't punish the establishment, they only punish me and you.

PanchoVilla

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Good thread, thought about this myself. Should they be proscribed as the organization that is greatest threat to the welfare of the citizens of this state ? Are they just a criminal conspiracy disguised as a political party ?

But it's just wishful thinking. Snotty FF otherwise known as FG would never do that to their old 'friends' in FF. If that was the case, most business leaders etc would also be looking at prison. The establishment don't punish the establishment, they only punish me and you.

What about if Labor win the majority in the next election and appoint a Labor or independent Minister for Justice? What if Michael McDowell was Minister for Justice in the next government? I'm sure he'd love a chance to take down some crooked FF members.

Cavehill Red

Poly wrote: »

They wouldn't even have to go in with the boot, I'd say a "random" revenue audit would rattle a few cages.

Sure what use would that be?

Bertie Ahern STILL has no tax clearance cert, yet despite that, he not only does NOT face any charges but actually retains a seat in Dail Eireann (where it is prohibited to hold a seat if you are not tax compliant.)

Normal laws don't apply to this shower. The only thing that would rattle cages is some prosecutions resulting in lengthy prison sentences, which isn't going to happen in this banana republic.

spider guardian

why stop at a tax audit? why not take more effective blanket measures and firebomb the next fianna fail convention? then the rabble might be satisfied. as much as you hate them now they were still voted in 3 years ago, and it's not like allegations of corruption against party members only surfaced in the last 3 years

GarlicBread

Wasnt it just yesterday or so that Paul Sweeney (senior union head) called Brian Lenihan an "economic war criminal". Me thinks theres fatter fish to fry than a few local councilers.

Polls out in the morning show 18% will still vote for FF so looks like the soldiers of destiny will rock on for another while at least.

johngalway

Sure everything Lenihan comes out with turns out to be wrong after the passing of a few months. He's gone from hero to liability.

Frogeye

Not a fan of fianna fail but a blanket investigation is bull sh*te. First you can't just start to investigate people. Whether they are fianna fail or otherwise, they have some rights as citizens.

And second, what would be the point? To get offical confirmation that they are gangsters? I don't need an investigation to tell me that.


18% of people would vote fianna fail.... well I reckon about 18% of fianna are probably worth voting for.

As for Brian being an economic war criminal, you could say the same about the union leaders.

Cavehill Red

Frogeye wrote: »

Not a fan of fianna fail but ...

Invariably the prelude to a FF apologia penned by one of their supporters.

Frogeye

like I said I'm not a fan of FF but I am a fan of fair treatment and peoples rights regardless of their creed, colour or political leanings etc.

you can read whatever you like about my political leanings into that.

Frogeye

Scofflaw

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Invariably the prelude to a FF apologia penned by one of their supporters.

If you can't think of a better argument against what someone says than claiming they're a Fianna Fáil supporter, don't bother to post - that way I don't have to bother to infract you for using a cheap ad hominem insult.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Cavehill Red

How is implying that someone might be a Fianna Fail supporter an insult?

murphaph

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Good thread, thought about this myself. Should they be proscribed as the organization that is greatest threat to the welfare of the citizens of this state ? Are they just a criminal conspiracy disguised as a political party ?

But it's just wishful thinking. Snotty FF otherwise known as FG would never do that to their old 'friends' in FF. If that was the case, most business leaders etc would also be looking at prison. The establishment don't punish the establishment, they only punish me and you.

Me and you can vote for someone else if we want. The problem is that clearly corrupt parties like FF have a 20% core vote. These group (IMO) is comprised of those who personally benefit from FF being in power (perhaps 10%) and the chronically stupid (90%).

If our electorate was less stupid, we'd be rid of FF and their like very very quickly.

murphaph

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How is implying that someone might be a Fianna Fail supporter an insult?

I doubt he's a FF supporter: read the rest of his post FFS.

Shea O'Meara

Unfortunately there's moral & immoral, legal & illegal. They are the country's brightest lights in dancing between the two. It's only when they miss a step......they get fat pensions and a telling off.

bmaxi

There have always been and always will be crooks in the political system. The fact that most of them are in FF is due to their holding power most often, it is of no benefit to the fraudster if there is no opportunity to defraud.
Even if FF were left without a seat in the next GE the crooks would migrate to one or more of the other parties. The real problem is lack of accountability, FF may have introduced and moulded the easy life for our TDs but I don't see the opposition rushing to dismantle it.
It should be made clear to our incoming Government that they need to clean up the political system if they are to last any length.

PatsytheNazi

PanchoVilla wrote: »

What about if Labor win the majority in the next election and appoint a Labor or independent Minister for Justice? What if Michael McDowell was Minister for Justice in the next government? I'm sure he'd love a chance to take down some crooked FF members.

Well it's possible that Labour might ( and it would be in Labour's interest tp further smear FF with their corruption and keep them out as a political challenge for a very long time ) to see that they are properly investigated for the economic criminality that they carried out from 2002 - . However I don't see Labour rocking the cronyist, corrupt system no matter what their rethoric in opposition. Their mainly cosy middle class people, teachers etc, the union element are as cosyily co opted into the rotten system and have had their snouts in the trough as good as FF with quango's, FAS, HSE, even the Central Bank ( they have two seats on the board AFAIK ). Their not going to see this society gets the fundamental changes it needs. Rethoric about it in opposition yes, doing something about it in power -

As for McDowell :eek: Are you having me on ? McDowell's values have more in common with FF. When it comes to it fundamental change or the same old rotten story, no matter how incompetent or corrupt the system is, McDowell and co.'s core values are little different than FF. Snotty FF with a veneer of respectability as I call it.

PatsytheNazi

murphaph wrote: »

Me and you can vote for someone else if we want. The problem is that clearly corrupt parties like FF have a 20% core vote. These group (IMO) is comprised of those who personally benefit from FF being in power (perhaps 10%) and the chronically stupid (90%).

If our electorate was less stupid, we'd be rid of FF and their like very very quickly.

FF ddin't vote themselves into power....the people of this country did, therefore they deserve a bashing. I've come to the believe that this dire mess the country is in and will get worse was sadly neccessary before the mass of people copped on to the total corruption and incompetence of FF.

Liam Byrne

bmaxi wrote: »

There have always been and always will be crooks in the political system. The fact that most of them are in FF is due to their holding power most often, it is of no benefit to the fraudster if there is no opportunity to defraud.
Even if FF were left without a seat in the next GE the crooks would migrate to one or more of the other parties. The real problem is lack of accountability, FF may have introduced and moulded the easy life for our TDs but I don't see the opposition rushing to dismantle it.
It should be made clear to our incoming Government that they need to clean up the political system if they are to last any length.

All true, but the question remains as to how they rise to the top in FF. I know it's easy to point out how FG got rid of Lowry (statistically he's hardly the only crook every to grace FG) but it is an indication of how a rot sets in if corruption isn't dealt with, and most of FF's trouble goes back to how Haughey encouraged corruption within that organisation.

Thankfully, now that FF have fallen below their supposed "core" 20%, the decent folk in FF (and again, statistically, it's probable that there's a good few in FF, even if it is confusing to an outsider why they stay there given the levels of corruption) might actually start to object, even if it is in their efforts for the "good of the party" instead of "for the good of the country".