Winter tyre mega thread

Alanstrainor

This is the place for all winter tyre discussion.

Matt Simis

Its a myth.
Test below on a full on ICE RINK, if this doesnt convince those still not signed up to Winter tyres, then its your funeral, try not to hit anyone else on the way out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

• These are studless regular winter tyres, ie the type you get here. These are not "Snow" or studded nordic tyres.
• Also note how useless All Seasons are.
• 4x4s with All Seasons or Summers will still slide sideways at corners and still will not out brake a 2wd car with Winters.

Result: Winter tyres perform excellent on Ice.


Note: Stolen from another board!

TCP/IP

so do you have the winter tyres ordered for the 850?

Matt Simis

I have Winters on the Rear of the 850 since March (not for the weather, just trying them out in the heat), but have Winters on all corners of the Alfa for a month now, which is the car that will see the most use.
Have Winters on the rear of the 530i Im selling too!


Where is the RSA advert with this actual real world useful message?

shedweller

I'd be interested in a set of winters but i keep thinking they'll wear out quicker. Will they and if they do, how much quicker?

Matt Simis

shedweller wrote: »

I'd be interested in a set of winters but i keep thinking they'll wear out quicker. Will they and if they do, how much quicker?

Quicker than what? Summers are not an alternative in Winter.
If you had a set of Winters in Winter and Summers in Summer, then you would balance out the tire wear on both sets dramatically and drive with the best of both worlds always.

Personally Ive been running Winters through the summer, didnt notice any exceptional wearing, Ireland doesnt get Spain hot though, so thats not all that surprising. Basically you arent going to notice the wear as major factor in Ireland, its just not hot enough for long enough.

peasant

shedweller wrote: »

Will they and if they do, how much quicker?

Does it really matter?

Buying a set of tyres 10.000 kms earlier than "normal" is still cheaper than buying new bumpers (or worse) for your car and the one you just hit because you were to stingy

Voodoomelon

Do winter tyres perform worse than summer tyres in dry weather? Also, are they less refined than summer tyres? Surely the answer to both is yes, otherwise why not drive with winters on the whole time?

F-Stop

peasant wrote: »

Does it really matter?

Buying a set of tyres 10.000 kms earlier than "normal" is still cheaper than buying new bumpers (or worse) for your car and the one you just hit because you were to stingy

It doesn't really come down to being stingy to be fair, we all pay a lot on our insurance, which is supposed to cover accidents that can be caused by exceptional circumstances. Sure, if we had four months of hard winter every year, winter tyres would be a must, but for the sake of a couple of days - or last year a couple of weeks - it might be a bit over the top.

I Was VB

Winter tyres me hole a good pilot can handle his vessel in any weather.

I was working on the nite that the big snow/ice came down, new years nite started working at 7pm 31st Dec right through untill 10am 1st Jan so worked right through and not a accidental slip or slide happend.

I was driving a 1.6 FWD automatic with '16 alloys on it and she handled fine. Its all about talking care and anticipating your actions ten times more than ya would on perfect conditions.

mathepac

Matt Simis wrote: »

Its a myth.
Test below on a full on ICE RINK, if this doesnt convince those still not signed up to Winter tyres, then its your funeral, try not to hit anyone else on the way out.
...
Result: Winter tyres perform excellent on Ice. ...

Nonsense.

The real message here is if you take a RWD vehicle out in conditions which are totally unsuited to it, not even the "correct" winter tyres are likely to save your ass, especially in hilly conditions.

I'd like to see that same "scientific test" on a nice flat ice-rink performed with FWD and AWD cars on normal tyres in the cornering test; neither will show the beemesr' massive understeer tendencies at the same speeds as on the film. Starting and braking will also be significantly better.

Show me the same cars on hills and the outcomes are predictable; ascending the beemers will crab sideways; descending anything is likely. FWD and AWD manage hills and ice much better than RWD.

The Tire [sic] Rack want to sell as many sets of tyres to their customers as possible

I Was VB wrote: »

... I was driving a 1.6 FWD automatic with '16 alloys on it and she handled fine. ...

Bingo - scientific test over, point proven.

Fishtits

OK, bugger the this G on cornering vs this G etc.

I'm sold. Done my own research, spoke to mates in cold places etc.

"Winter" tyres are a good idea.

Now. How much do they cost?

Only those who have actually purchased and paid for them will be believed.

Cosmo K

A lot of the "cheap and cheerful" chinese summer tyres, the likes of triangle or wanli, have the M+S symbol as well......you don't want to try them on ice and snow, that said, could be an interesting experience:D

I always found Dunlop winter tyres pretty good, decent grip and not too expensive.

TheBazman

Nice find Matt - pretty conclusive - I know last year with rear wheel drive on the 5 series there were a few days where it was bordering on impossible to drive. At one stage i remember I was on the Chapelizod bypass in a queue of traffic - managed to stop the car - so I'm sitting there in the car with brakes pressed and it bloody starts sliding off of to the side still with the brakes pressed. I was looking across at the lady in the car beside me thinking there is nothing I could do. In the end I had to ease off the brakes, try to move forward and hope that the car in front moved on a bit......very very frightening

gbee

I Was VB wrote: »

Winter tyres me hole a good pilot can handle his vessel in any weather..

Can't accept this flippancy at all, under the subject at hand. Any Top Gear fan will more than understand vehicle preparation. And how important the components are.

Andrew33

gbee wrote: »

Can't accept this flippancy at all, under the subject at hand. Any Top Gear fan will more than understand vehicle preparation. And how important the components are.

It's certainly not flippancy, its the truth. I can just imagine all the numbnuts out there who'll slap winter tyres on and drive around like loolas thinking their lovely new winter tyres will give them all the grip they could possibly want instead of driving to suit the conditions. We don't (not yet anyway) get a hard enough winter here to justify the need for a second set of tyres.

Matt Simis

mathepac wrote: »

Nonsense.
The real message here is if you take a RWD vehicle out in conditions which are totally unsuited to it, not even the "correct" winter tyres are likely to save your ass, especially in hilly conditions.

Im curious to see where you saw hills in the video, let alone Winters not "saving your ass". You did look at the correct video right?

Andrew33 wrote: »

It's certainly not flippancy, its the truth. I can just imagine all the numbnuts out there who'll slap winter tyres on and drive around like loolas thinking their lovely new winter tyres will give them all the grip they could possibly want instead of driving to suit the conditions. We don't (not yet anyway) get a hard enough winter here to justify the need for a second set of tyres.

I live near Athboy and commute to Dublin. The roads were virtually undriveable and when "driving" I was going about 20kph to keep it straight. I was doing this to "suit" the conditions, said drive took 4hours each way.

This is madness, proper tyres are whats required. Also a "couple of days" or not "harsh enough"? This stretched over a period about 7weeks where I live. Outside those intense periods, Winters still are the better choice due to the temp.

Frankly Im not going to bother with this argument anymore, as expected professional arguers will dispute any fact, figure or video evidence presented. When you slide into a kerb or rear end someone, it will be the councils fault, the other driver blah blah blah.
Its pretty damn clear to any rational mind that driving to suit the conditions should entail putting on the bloody correct tyres and no skiing around the place in the dead on winter in your Summer tyres.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Do winter tyres perform worse than summer tyres in dry weather? Also, are they less refined than summer tyres? Surely the answer to both is yes, otherwise why not drive with winters on the whole time?

In some other post I posted 3 articles/research that showed a 10% performance hit in hot conditions on Winters vs Summers. Note we do not really get prolonged hot conditions here, so in our case its "upto" 10% performance hit (and +50-250% improvement in early morning 7c and below temps). I have Winters on the rear of the 8series since March, IMO they stick to the ground better than the Dunlop sports I removed (actually a lot better than).

Regarding refinement, I took 2 Continental and 2 "Triangle" Summer Tyres off the Alfa and put on the 4 Winters last month. Road noise is down and overall its more pleasant to drive. So vs poor Summer tires, Winters are an improvement in Refinement. Considering your 7er is a lot nicer and better sound insulated than an Alfa 156, I dont think thats much of a concern for you anyhow!

Why dont we run them all year? Some of the UK mags suggested we should... but look above, people actually have the sheer ignorance to suggest we shouldnt even put them on in Winter!?

gbee

Andrew33 wrote: »

It's certainly not flippancy, its the truth. I can just imagine all the numbnuts out there who'll slap winter tyres on and drive around like loolas .

I take this point very much. And it is an advisory, I will take your opposite point, that is a well prepared machine will not give a bad driver immunity.

And having been around Nad last winter in my Teranno on 4x4 and on my BG Goodrich All Terrain [as seen on many Paris Dakar jeeps] and witnessed the sheer stupidity of other 4x4 idiots, three of whom ended up in the ditch [more embarrassingly than hurt] all through pushing beyond limits.

I can totally accept this aspect.

But I cannot accept that any driver can handle any conditions that get thrown at him through his or her driving skills alone. We passed a lot of abandoned cars and it forced us to traverse the worst parts of the nearly blocked roads and had three foot snow drifts, we'd never have made it without those or better tyres. And naturally I'll take a little credit for except for the downhill decent, I let the machine take me down, it was doing a better job as I spun it out a few times manually.

Saruman

Winter tyres would be needed if our winters were like last years every year but even then, it was only a few weeks. That said, having winter tyres on for those few weeks might have saved some people from ditching their cars.

Our normal winters do not justify it for the most part, although those living up hills and mountain areas might do well to have them.

I suppose it is all down to circumstances.

Great video by the way. I know I could have used a set last winter when I got stuck on the new ditch of an approach to the N3/M50 roundabout along with another car.
The driver in front of me in his suv stopped by the other stuck car to see if she was ok and then drove on. I had to stop of course and it took about an hour to get going again.

gbee

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Do winter tyres perform worse than summer tyres in dry weather? Also, are they less refined than summer tyres? Surely the answer to both is yes, otherwise why not drive with winters on the whole time?

As mentioned in another reply, heat is the biggest factor in rapid tyre wear and in Ireland we rarely reach these conditions.

Other factors, winter tyres are better road grippers which contribute to erratic performance attributes, provide heavier steering which puts more pressure on bearing, struts, ball-joints, steering boxes and buhses. Plus fuel economy will take a hit.

In dry summer weather with a winter tyre set in place and a violent manoeuvre may have exaggerated effects like making a swerve when you were only expecting a gentle pull out.

The constant drag on long trips in the summer will induce fatigue and all the other things I've mentioned.

Now, what I've offered are somewhat subjective. Whist all these effects are real, it's a question of how much they will effect one in reality and one's own driving habits etc.

One might not notice anything except increased service charges and repeat service items that one would have expected to have lasted say 80,000 miles and you're replacing linkages every 20,000 miles and so on.

If you do high mileage in summer, winter tyres are not recommended.

TheZ

For people with winter tyres do you have spare set of wheels/rims and leave summer ones in shed or garage. If you don't have spare wheels will. Tyre place do the two swaps for you?

peasant

gbee wrote: »

Other factors, winter tyres are better road grippers which contribute to erratic performance attributes, provide heavier steering which puts more pressure on bearing, struts, ball-joints, steering boxes and buhses.
In dry summer weather with a winter tyre set in place and a violent manoeuvre may have exaggerated effects like making a swerve when you were only expecting a gentle pull out.

The constant drag on long trips in the summer will induce fatigue and all the other things I've mentioned.

One might not notice anything except increased service charges and repeat service items that one would have expected to have lasted say 80,000 miles and you're replacing linkages every 20,000 miles and so on.

By that logic we should all be driving zero grip Nangkang Ditchfinders and our cars would never need a service or have an accident

opinion guy

I Was VB wrote: »

Winter tyres me hole a good pilot can handle his vessel in any weather.

I was working on the nite that the big snow/ice came down, new years nite started working at 7pm 31st Dec right through untill 10am 1st Jan so worked right through and not a accidental slip or slide happend.

I was driving a 1.6 FWD automatic with '16 alloys on it and she handled fine. Its all about talking care and anticipating your actions ten times more than ya would on perfect conditions.

Hmmm despite your flippant attitude, to some extent I agree. I recall last winter having a great time driving in the ice - it was just fun to me. I didn't lose control in my FWD. Alot of people I noticed on the road who were loosing control were driving with bad technique on ice. Of course the one massive exception to this was - I could not go up hills. I simply did not have the traction. And, more worringly I could not have gone down a hill and kept control - thankfully this didn't arise - but some would not have the option of avoiding downhill stretches. Thus - winter tyres a good idea.

mathepac wrote: »

Nonsense.

The real message here is if you take a RWD vehicle out in conditions which are totally unsuited to it, not even the "correct" winter tyres are likely to save your ass, especially in hilly conditions.

Agreed. RWD is just nuts in winter conditions.

I'd like to see that same "scientific test" on a nice flat ice-rink performed with FWD and AWD cars on normal tyres in the cornering test; neither will show the beemesr' massive understeer tendencies at the same speeds as on the film. Starting and braking will also be significantly better.

Also agreed. You could get a FWD around those corners.
Nevertheless - alot of people are driving RWD cars. For them - winter tyres are a good idea.

Show me the same cars on hills and the outcomes are predictable; ascending the beemers will crab sideways; descending anything is likely. FWD and AWD manage hills and ice much better than RWD.

Agreed. But again the problem is stopping not matter where your drive is delivered. Winter tyres decrease stopping distance. Therefore winter tyres a good idea. Especially if you live near some hills.

The Tire [sic] Rack want to sell as many sets of tyres to their customers as possible

Of course they do. Doesn't mean they are wrong.

Bingo - scientific test over, point proven.

Not really. Only thing you've argued successfully is that RWD cars are more in need of winter tyres than others. But its still a good idea all round.

gbee

peasant wrote: »

By that logic we should all be driving zero grip Nangkang Ditchfinders and our cars would never need a service or have an accident

When I was a kid in the 60s I was told we'd a all in hover cars ....

Capt'n Midnight

Matt Simis wrote: »

Quicker than what? Summers are not an alternative in Winter.
If you had a set of Winters in Winter and Summers in Summer, then you would balance out the tire wear on both sets dramatically and drive with the best of both worlds always.

Personally Ive been running Winters through the summer, didnt notice any exceptional wearing, Ireland doesnt get Spain hot though, so thats not all that surprising. Basically you arent going to notice the wear as major factor in Ireland, its just not hot enough for long enough.

Would you need a second set of rims / or where changes tyres for you ?
How long will winter tyres last, if you only use them when needed it will be years before the wear out , but will they perish in the mean time.

gbee

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Would you need a second set of rims / or where changes tyres for you ?
How long will winter tyres last, if you only use them when needed it will be years before the wear out , but will they perish in the mean time.

IMO, another set of wheels is the answer, as you mention, tyre companies are reluctant to swap tyres for you and it's a cost with new valves and balancing that could be €200.

All rubber perishes but tyres should be good for twenty years. You can get a cream to rub over them and store them inflated but below their working pressures. A clean dry spot and keep any oils well away and just a sack cloth will be sufficient. You can stack them to save space but resist putting anything on top of them.

Anan1

I have a second set of (smaller) rims for mine, subject to wear i'll be replacing them every five years.

Capt'n Midnight

gbee wrote: »

When I was a kid in the 60s I was told we'd a all in hover cars ....

I stood on the brakes and nothing happened :eek:

opinion guy

gbee wrote: »

When I was a kid in the 60s I was told we'd a all in hover cars ....

Yeah didn't Michael J Fox used to drive one before he got Parkinsons ?
I want a hover board dammit!

I Was VB

Its like somone buying a ladder who's never been up a ladder in his life, and them thinking ''Sure i know what im doing i own it'' without proper know how and preperation they will hurt themselves or worse somone else.

Same can be said about winter tyres, a person will buy them and think themselves fully immune to slipping or sliding on ice.

Matt Simis

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Would you need a second set of rims / or where changes tyres for you ?
How long will winter tyres last, if you only use them when needed it will be years before the wear out , but will they perish in the mean time.

I get them swapped over, EUR15 a pop, though as mentioned I had winters on since Spring.
I wouldnt use a tire over 6years old personally.

tossy

I Was VB wrote: »

Its like somone buying a ladder who's never been up a ladder in his life, and them thinking ''Sure i know what im doing i own it'' without proper know how and preperation they will hurt themselves or worse somone else.

Same can be said about winter tyres, a person will buy them and think themselves fully immune to slipping or sliding on ice.

I agree there will be some people who would fit winter tyres and think it's ok to drive like it was June but in fairness that type of person will probably drive without due care on summer tyres anyway as they are generally quite clueless.Like all the people i seen last summer foot planted wheels spinning and going nowhere in car parks and on slight inclines - no concept of feathering or easing on the power! Or the amount of people i seen lose it in 4x4's because they thought they were immune also.

There will always be ejits.

I will be ordering winter tyres myself this year,it's not all about ice and snow,once the temp is under 6 or 7 degrees then winter tyres are at there optimum and summer/all season tyres are out of there optimum operating range

peasant

I Was VB wrote: »

Its all about talking care and anticipating your actions ten times more than ya would on perfect conditions.

In the video: stopping from a miserly 10 mp/h (= very careful driving)
stopping distance with winters : 21 feet
stopping distance with summers: 47 ft or more than twice as long

How could you possibly argue with that?

_Kaiser_

I have to agree with VB.. I too have a FWD auto and didn't really have any problems last winter for the most part.. just take it slow and don't make any dramatic moves and it was ok I found.

But if I was to get a set of winter tires, would I need to change all 4, or would the front 2 be enough?

I Was VB

The video shows all three cars locking up the front end when they stop. Dunno about you but that the last thing i do in slippery conditions, i take off the power and slowly come to a coast and gentley apply brakes.

peasant

I Was VB wrote: »

The video shows all three cars locking up the front end when they stop.

The video shows the cars driving on sheer ice. As soon as you touch the brakes on sheer ice your wheels will lock, no such thing as gentle braking on sheer ice.

I agree with you though on not touching the brakes at all (if possible) in icy conditions ..but these guys were doing a test.

I Was VB

peasant wrote: »

The video shows the cars driving on sheer ice. As soon as you touch the brakes on sheer ice your wheels will lock, no such thing as gentle braking on sheer ice.

I agree with you though on not touching the brakes at all (if possible) in icy conditions ..but these guys were doing a test.

The video is a propaganda video to sell tyres, simulation tests arent real world. As shown you wouldnt apply your breaks fully allowing your car to go into a skid.

peasant

I Was VB wrote: »

The video is a propaganda video to sell tyres, simulation tests arent real world. As shown you wouldnt apply your breaks fully allowing your car to go into a skid.

In the real world unfortunately we don't have the whole ice rink to ourselves either. You can drive as carefully as you like and use as much anticipation as you want ...out there on the roads there's always one eejit that will spoil it for you sooner or later and force you into maneuvres that you should't normally attempt in these conditions...that's the situation when your winter tyres will pay for themselves.

I Was VB

peasant wrote: »

In the real world unfortunately we don't have the whole ice rink to ourselves either. You can drive as carefully as you like and use as much anticipation as you want ...out there on the roads there's always one eejit that will spoil it for you sooner or later and force you into maneuvres that you should't normally attempt in these conditions...that's the situation when your winter tyres will pay for themselves.

Maybe your right, but winter tyres will do SFA when somone skids into the back of ya. The whole snow driving is somthing us Irish never really had to deal with, but there will be those few who will go out and buy snow tyres and think they will be able to drive as if they were driving in dry condtions.

peasant

I Was VB wrote: »

Maybe your right, but winter tyres will do SFA when somone skids into the back of ya. The whole snow driving is somthing us Irish never really had to deal with, but there will be those few who will go out and buy snow tyres and think they will be able to drive as if they were driving in dry condtions.

Yepp ...unfortunately you're right there

Vertakill

I Was VB wrote: »

Its like somone buying a ladder who's never been up a ladder in his life, and them thinking ''Sure i know what im doing i own it'' without proper know how and preperation they will hurt themselves or worse somone else.

Same can be said about winter tyres, a person will buy them and think themselves fully immune to slipping or sliding on ice.

I Was VB wrote: »

Maybe your right, but winter tyres will do SFA when somone skids into the back of ya. The whole snow driving is somthing us Irish never really had to deal with, but there will be those few who will go out and buy snow tyres and think they will be able to drive as if they were driving in dry condtions.

It seems you're one and only point is that people will be complacent once they get winter tyres and think they're invincible.
I don't know where you plucked that idea out of but I don't think that was the point of this thread.

I think the point is that, if you want to be safer this winter, you should maybe invest in some winter tyres. There was a reason these tyres were invented and also why they were called "winter tyres" and not "snow tyres".

Yes, some cars perform better in winter than others. Yes, an automatic low powered FWD car will probably fair better than most - but we don't all drive those thankfully.
For the rest who have RWD cars (and some who's are quite powerful), winter tyres have to be heavily considered because driving on ice in a RWD car can be like suicide sometimes.

I hate this "ohh I was fine last year in the ice - you people just don't know how to drive" attitude. It really bugs me because half of the people saying this are no doubt not travelling any roads with hills, or in areas where very few cars pass through, or areas without gritted roads.

tossy

I Was VB wrote: »

Maybe your right, but winter tyres will do SFA when somone skids into the back of ya..

Thats a non argument,someone hitting you in the rear has nothing to do with what tyres you have fitted to your car.

_Kaiser_

Vertakill wrote: »

Yes, some cars perform better in winter than others. Yes, an automatic low powered FWD car will probably fair better than most - but we don't all drive those thankfully.

Mine's a 2.0 TDI with DSG box.. not exactly low-powered

I hate this "ohh I was fine last year in the ice - you people just don't know how to drive" attitude. It really bugs me because half of the people saying this are no doubt not travelling any roads with hills, or in areas where very few cars pass through, or areas without gritted roads.

I don't think anyone has said that "you people just don't know how to drive". I think the point is that REGARDLESS of what tires you have on your car you should (as always) drive at a speed/in a manner appropriate to the conditions and your car's abilities.

Even in the worst of it last year I still saw idiots (generally boy racer mobiles though) pushing too hard and paying for it and no type of tires will fix that.

I live outside Dublin myself so hills, sparsely used roads and no grit save for the main routes was the norm last year and I certainly didn't think I was invincible.. I just took my time and got there eventually

johnb25

Matt Simis wrote: »

I have Winters on the Rear of the 850 since March (not for the weather, just trying them out in the heat), but have Winters on all corners of the Alfa for a month now, which is the car that will see the most use.
Have Winters on the rear of the 530i Im selling too!

You have winters on only one axle of a couple of cars....any reason for this? Should they not be on all four corners, or is two wheels enough?
If only one axle, front or rear, or depending on which wheels are driven?

Matt Simis

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Mine's a 2.0 TDI with DSG box.. not exactly low-powered

:pac:

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I don't think anyone has said that "you people just don't know how to drive". I think the point is that REGARDLESS of what tires you have on your car you should (as always) drive at a speed/in a manner appropriate to the conditions and your car's abilities.

Actually this was insinuated heavily several times, the idea that only people who need some sort of crutch need to prepare for winter. Which is of course, retarded.

johnb25 wrote: »

You have winters on only one axle of a couple of cars....any reason for this? Should they not be on all four corners, or is two wheels enough?
If only one axle, front or rear, or depending on which wheels are driven?

Yes, you should have all corners in Winters. I have Winters on the rear for the moment as I needed 2 new rears. When testing last year the logic that the driven wheels loose traction first was easily and dramatically proven.

If you really only can put 2 Winters on, put it on the driven wheels.

_Kaiser_

Matt Simis wrote: »

:pac:

Hey I made no claims that it was a goesfasterthanlightREDDREDI to be fair! It's no slouch either though!

Voodoomelon

No doubt winter tyres do perform better on snow and ice, but we simply don't get enough of it to justify getting a second set in my opinion. Sure a set are cheaper than a bumper and headlamp cluster, but hey, i'll take my chances! I also live beside the coast so even during the big freeze last year, we were relatively unaffected here in north Louth.

Every day stories of bedlam around the country were on the TV and radio and we were all scratching our heads! Some days were very slippy alright, but you could count them on two hands. I'll rely on my right foot and DSC.

Matt Simis

mathepac wrote: »

Nonsense.

The real message here is if you take a RWD vehicle out in conditions which are totally unsuited to it

I'd like to see that same "scientific test" on a nice flat ice-rink performed with FWD and AWD cars on normal tyres in the cornering test; neither will show the beemesr' massive understeer tendencies at the same speeds as on the film. Starting and braking will also be significantly better.

By pure chance I found this Canadian test of two FWD vehicles with All Seasons (marginally better than Summers) vs Winters. They did braking and turning tests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

So FWD without Winters rocking yeah? :rolleyes:

Admittedly however the 2 Winters and 2 All Seasons on one car seems like a brutal idea (of mine.. ), at least on FWD.

challengemaster

I Was VB wrote: »

The video shows all three cars locking up the front end when they stop. Dunno about you but that the last thing i do in slippery conditions, i take off the power and slowly come to a coast and gentley apply brakes.

How far exactly do you think it would have taken to come to a complete stop without braking? 100ft? more?

opinion guy

Matt Simis wrote: »

By pure chance I found this Canadian test of two FWD vehicles with All Seasons (marginally better than Summers) vs Winters. They did braking and turning tests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

So FWD without Winters rocking yeah? :rolleyes:

Admittedly however the 2 Winters and 2 All Seasons on one car seems like a brutal idea (of mine.. ), at least on FWD.

This is a CLEARLY flawed test. The red car is obviously alot bigger and heavier than the silver one. If you are going to go to the bother of doing a test like these you NEED to use two identical specced cars of the same make and model:rolleyes:

peasant

opinion guy wrote: »

This is a CLEARLY flawed test.

missed the bit where they swapped tyres, did you ?