Former FF councillors charged with corruption

zootroid

Four former Fianna Fáil councillors - Don Lydon, Sean Gilbride, Colm McGrath and Tony Fox - have appeared at Dublin District Court on corruption charges.
Four former Fianna Fáil councillors have appeared at Dublin District Court on corruption charges.
Don Lydon, Sean Gilbride, Colm McGrath and Tony Fox face charges of receiving money in relation to land rezoning.
Mr Lydon, 72, is charged with receiving money corruptly in 1992.
Mr Fox faces five charges of receiving money corruptly in 1992 and 1997.
All four have been granted bail.
The court was told that Mr Gilbride was arrested in Skerries this morning and charged. In reply to the charge he said 'not guilty'.
When charged today Mr McGrath replied 'definitely reject that charge'.
Mr Lydon replied 'not guilty'.
When arrested today at Harcourt terrace Garda station Mr Fox replied 'not guilty'.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1022/politics.html

Once again the words Fianna Fail and corruption are used in the same sentence. What are people's opinion of this? Do people think this is a minor offence with no real consequences?

Personally I think laws concerning white collar crime are too lenient. Corruption has a very real social cost, and the law should be strong enough to act as a deterrent

gandalf

About time this has happened. I hope that if they are found guilty of this crime that they are made an extreme example of to deter our current politicians in travelling down this path in future.

The cynic in me says that they will get a slight slap on the wrist though.

Poly

Reminds me of the great scene with the police chief in Casablanca

"FF involved in corruption, I am truly shocked and horrified"
"your brown enevelope sir"

Liam Byrne

While it's good to see, yet again it's the small fry being sacrificed. These 4 don't affect FF's power base, and they are old enough not to run again.

I can't help thinking that the only reason these 4 and Callely are being make minor examples of is so that FF can say "look, we've dealt with the corruption".

Meanwhile Ahern, who is 100% ineligible for the Dail, maintains a seat that he doesn't even frequent.

bijapos

Tony Fox is still a councillor, was elected as an Independent in Dundrum (Dun Laoghaire) in 2009.

He was one of 7 named by Frank Dunlop as having received money but the well heeled and well educated citizens of Dundrum still decided he was good enough to represent them.

Good news, had to check it was Oct 20th and not Dec 25th, follows on from that former FG councillor in Waterford coming back and getting arrested for corruption. Hope they all squeal like pigs and bring others down with them.

Mr.Micro

The whole of the Dublin area and many of the adjoining counties were carved up by the likes of these allegedly greedy corrupt people. Its good news also to see Kennedy being charged as well....whether any of these individuals will ever be convicted is another matter. We are living the testimony of the greed and corruption now, someone always has to pay the price and its the nation in the form of the taxpayers.

bijapos

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I can't help thinking that the only reason these 4 and Callely are being make minor examples of is so that FF can say "look, we've dealt with the corruption".

This is nothing to do with FF, its the DPP and the Gardai who have instigated this.



This could get very interesting. If they do face charges it could be under a FG/Lab government, the courts could be under pressure from the media and the people to throw the book at them and if they do face a stretch in prison they may spill the beans to stay out of prison. There are plenty of skeletons in the closets of other political parties when it comes to questionable rezonings in the greater Dublin area over the past 20 years.

maynooth_rules

Unfortunately this will not cost Fianna Fail one vote in the next election. If people who will be voting FF in the next election are willing to overlook all the wrongs they have done over the last 12 years, then they will certainly overlook this.

flutered

well the wheels of justice grind slowly, hopefully they do not grind to a halt in this particular case.

bonzos

Does this mean that these guys will be on the late late show soon with a hand picked FF audience at hand to help clear their names?

Shea O'Meara

Ryan only does that for current members of FF.

heyjude

Hopefully, if any of them are found guilty, they won't be allowed to avoid a jail term by pleading their 'age' or 'poor health'.

Wide Road

I'm not trying to be the goody good around here but I think we should be careful about what is said. Remember innocence before guilt. I hope justice comes out and the whole truth is laid out in front of us. But be careful. BTW, who is Kennedy?

JonathanAnon

It is a good precedent to set, so that those in office will know that while the wheels of justice take time to turn, they will catch up with you if you use public office to fill your own pockets (to the detriment of society) ...... you will eventually be caught and punished ...

Traumadoc

I wonder could they plea bargain and release details of other payments?

Odilon Redon

bijapos wrote: »

Tony Fox is still a councillor, was elected as an Independent in Dundrum (Dun Laoghaire) in 2009.

He was one of 7 named by Frank Dunlop as having received money but the well heeled and well educated citizens of Dundrum still decided he was good enough to represent them...

Be fair. Little more than 10% gave him 1st preferences (1,792 out of 17,408). He got a further 760 lower preferences and took the last seat. Ironically, he probably gained a few votes because he was independent and not FF. He also campaigned relentlessly on (very) local issues - parking, footpaths, etc.

I hope he's convicted and given a sentence which requires his disqualification from the council (and that his council colleagues do not flunk their duty in that regard).

http://www.electionsireland.org/counts.cfm?election=2009L&cons=115&ref=

freewheeler

zootroid wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1022/politics.html

Once again the words Fianna Fail and corruption are used in the same sentence. What are people's opinion of this? Do people think this is a minor offence with no real consequences?

Personally I think laws concerning white collar crime are too lenient. Corruption has a very real social cost, and the law should be strong enough to act as a deterrent

Well at least 18% of the electorate still have no problems with this level of corruption apparently....

bijapos

You can change the thread title and add FG to that as well. It seems former TD, Senator and Councillor Liam T Cosgrave, son of former Taoiseach Liam Cosgrave, has been arrested on corruption charges on the same case as well. Nothing new here, he has been convicted of corruption in planning and rezoning before.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/cosgravel.html

Former Fine Gael TD and Senator Liam T Cosgrave has appeared at Dublin District Court charged with five offences.
He was arrested today and taken to the Bridewell Garda Station.
He replied not guilty to all charges.
He is alleged to have received corrupt payments between 1992 and 1997 in relation to the re-zoning of Jackson Way.
Liam T Cosgrave will appear in court again on Thursday when the Book of Evidence will be served.
He was released on bail on his own bond of €200.

Liam Byrne

bijapos wrote: »

You can change the thread title and add FG to that as well. It seems former TD, Senator and Councillor Liam T Cosgrave, son of former Taoiseach Liam Cosgrave, has been arrested on corruption charges on the same case as well. Nothing new here, he has been convicted of corruption in planning and rezoning before.

Well, it's good news all 'round if it's showing that anyone involved in corruption will be charged and jailed where appropriate.

It does show the sorry state of our political representatives, though......I mean, I've been attacked for pointing out the extreme level of corruption at high levels of FF, but it's becoming more and more apparent that the others are no saints either.....maybe not in the same league, but definitely unacceptable.

I reckon if everything came out in the open we'd be as bad or worse than Italy with their reputation or America with their oil and war barons pulling all the strings.

Nijmegen

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well, it's good news all 'round if it's showing that anyone involved in corruption will be charged and jailed where appropriate.

It does show the sorry state of our political representatives, though......I mean, I've been attacked for pointing out the extreme level of corruption at high levels of FF, but it's becoming more and more apparent that the others are no saints either.....maybe not in the same league, but definitely unacceptable.

I reckon if everything came out in the open we'd be as bad or worse than Italy with their reputation or America with their oil and war barons pulling all the strings.

I have long supposed that perhaps the reason we have never seen a huge push for a cleanup and a sweep of the closet is that just about everyone in ruling party politics is, was, or knew of somebody on the take in some way, shape or form that would end their career.

Political parties, unions, and other 'major' groups that can activate a grassroots effort to see such a change, be they in power or not, with marches in the streets and mass campaigns... Have never really lifted a finger to it.

Indeed, when even an expenses scandal rolls around there are many keeping silent on all sides of the House.

Shea O'Meara

I personally have heard tell of low scale corruption, third party in most cases, but the sheer volume of 'give yer man a few grand and I'll get that sorted for ya' or 'If you hire this particular company you'll get appoval' etc. I've come across gives me pause for thought....that being a lot are at it.