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How do I tell my ex I am carrying his child

  • 22-10-2010 8:47am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Sorry but I have to go anon here

    I just found out that I am pregnant - literally yesterday

    I broke up with my ex a year ago - I still love him and he still loves me but we note toxic together - we still meet up and watch movies and somethings we have sex

    How do I tell him - he will hit the roof - he is really selfish and like to place blame - he is going to blame me and I cant face him like that when I cant even get my own head around it

    I am afraid to tell him face to face as there will be questions as to how this happened and I cant answer those kinds of questions

    Would it be awful to email him??? Or should I wait a month or so until I am settled with the idea - but then again he will be like why didn't you tell me

    He is going to suggest abortion and that is one thing I know for certain I cannot do


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Ring him and tell him you need to speak to him ASAP. Do not tell him about what. Sit him down(preferrably somewhere in public so he can´t freak out or anythink like that) Tell him the news, that you are having his baby and he deserves to know. If you don´t want to have an abortion, don´t let him talk you into having one! I´ve had two of them and i can tell you, it´s difficult enough when it´s your own decision, never mind doing it when you´re not 100% sure and only doing it for him!

    Give him some time to get used to it. If he wants to be involved in his child´s live, very good, if not, be prepared to do it alone. But do not deny him the information that he´s going to be a father.....

    All the best and take good care of the both of you!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks Dontknow

    I am just afraid of a backlash - I know what he is like

    I wont deny him any information I know but if he starts on about how this happened etc or am I trying to trap him - that is something I cannot handle as I feel so fragile as it is and I already suffer from anxiety and am on medication for it

    He is away for the weekend so I wont be saying anything as I don't want to ruin his weekend

    this is a very lonely and scary place I am in


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    If he starts ranting about you trapping him, I only know of one way to make a baby and he´s 50% responsible for that as well, otherwise he should have kept his stuff in his pants! I know just how you feel, and i´m thinking of you!

    You also say that you are on medication. Please check with you GP asap whether this medication is harmful for the baby. Try to relax as best as you can, because all the stress will not do your baby a lot of good!

    Use the weekend to let the fact that you´re pregnant sink in. Do have any idea how far you´re gone?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭How Strange


    Op, first off take some time to absorb this news yourself. You only found out yesterday, it's an unplanned pregnancy so you're understandably in shock.

    Would you consider speaking to a crisis pregnancy agency? It might be good to discuss it with someone impartial.

    Yes of course you need to tell your ex but right now you need to think about yourself. You're probably not in the right frame if mind to take on his reactions at the moment. You should get your head around the whole thing first before you tell him. That way you'll be stronger and better prepared if he reacts negatively.


  • Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    i agree with How Strange, take a week or so to get your own head around it, and figure out what you would like to do first.

    the last thing you need at the moment is him giving you loads of hassle (about something he is equally responsible for, i might add) and maybe trying to pressure you into a decision that would be ideal for him, but not perhaps for you, when you are still in panic stage.

    if you are only just a few weeks pregnant, you've loads of time to talk it over with him when you are ready.

    good luck


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks OPs

    I know I want to keep it - that is for sure

    I must be about four weeks according to online calculators things

    Firstly I am going to get a clear blue digi to see what that says - I need more confirmation

    I will go to doctor as soon as I have it reconfirmed its hard to sink in and I dont have any symptoms apart from missed period and very very tired so I want further confirmation

    I think when I tell him and if he starts off on one I am just going to get up and leave


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Why didn't you use protection? Did you tell him you were on the pill but then become pregnant?

    I would question if it's fair to bring a child into the world if it is unwanted by its father.

    This is the prime reason why sleeping with your ex is never, ever wise..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    that is exactly the type of thing I dont want to be listening too

    and with all due respect OP sleeping with ANYBODY not only ex's can lead to pregnancy

    I was/am on the pill and I dont recall missing one - and here I am explaining it - I feel like I am being accused and its exactly why I dont want to talk to ex


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    Why didn't you use protection? Did you tell him you were on the pill but then become pregnant?

    I would question if it's fair to bring a child into the world if it is unwanted by its father.

    This is the prime reason why sleeping with your ex is never, ever wise..

    How do you know they didn't use protection?

    Probably best not to project your own issues onto the OP, and accusing her of trapping him is essentially that. As for whether or not its fair? There are plenty of single mothers out there doing just fine and if the OP wants to keep her baby she is entitled to do so.

    Sex even with protection can make babies. If you're going to have sex you need to deal with the consequences that arise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭Fittle


    OP, firstly you have said you will be keeping the baby, so I'd like to congratulate you on your pregnancy:)

    Secondly, I was pregnant and alone from 6wks, so <snip> I know exactly how you are feeling.

    Do you have friends or family you can discuss this with OP? Is there a good friend you could maybe spend the weekend with - or do you have a good relationship with a sister, or other family member?

    My advice would be the same as HowStrange - you need time to absorb this. It is a shock, but in time, you will grow used to it and you will (now that you have decided you will be keeping the baby) begin to celebrate it.

    You aren't in the right frame of mind to deal with your ex at this moment in time - your mind, and your body need time to adjust to the pregnancy. Take this time and go through the emotions. Give yourself time OP.

    I have raised my child alone from the start, with no input from his dad, and little support from family (I have great friends though:D). In the past 8yrs, I have bought my own home and stayed working f/t. There are many, many rewards to parenting, and raising a child alone CAN be done, and is done every day by parents. Having said that, your ex might surprise you and react differently than you are anticipating.

    Whatever the outcome OP, take care of yourself and I wish you all the best.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Why didn't you use protection? Did you tell him you were on the pill but then become pregnant?

    I would question if it's fair to bring a child into the world if it is unwanted by its father.

    This is the prime reason why sleeping with your ex is never, ever wise..


    Very contradictory statement there. The prime reason for not sleeping with your ex is because a resulting child would be unwanted by the father?? I know plenty of secure couples who's male wouldn't want a child. How many people do you know who sleep together and don't want a child? Because I'm sure that number is very high. I sleep with my girlfriend and don't want a child, so your logic is way off.

    And also, no protection is 100% secure short of not having sex, so assuming she didn't use protection is just guessing.

    OP, the best thing to do imo would be to talk to a best friend now (if you havent already) because suffering in silence would be awful. Whatever you do, don't do it by text or e-mail as even on a basic level, you've no idea when he'd get the message and he might catch you off guard and unprepared emotionally to deal with it. Build yourself a small support group before you let your ex know, confide in a few good friends or somebody who understands and can relate to you, as the last thing you should do, is worry and suffer alone.
    As others have said, get yourself comfortable with the idea first and do your extra checks so there's no "are you sure, are you sure?" from him. He has to remember that anytime anyone has sex, theres a risk of pregnancy regardless of what precautions are taken. If he tries to blame you its wrong so bear that in mind.

    From what you're saying you weren't planning this pregnancy so make him aware that its not ideal for you either. Tell him before he asks that you are/were on the pill and didn't miss a day, so this pregnancy is a complete shock to you. If you wanted him back, you would certainly have gone a different way about it, he should know that you're not a psycho who'd set him up like this.

    You should meet up with him in a public place and bring a good friend with you, not to sit with you as you tell him but to be nearby for after you've told him and he's left because it may be a tough experience and having someone with you to bring you home or give you a hug after is very important. The last thing you want to be doing is standing there alone and upset, so definitely bring a friend who'll stay nearby for the afters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks you OPs

    I was worried about posting esp after that comment above from guywhogotsetup - who I assume is a man....

    I will take the time and your suggestions are most helpful

    If funny this whole thing has stopped me from thinking rationally as I am so stressed out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    Why didn't you use protection? Did you tell him you were on the pill but then become pregnant?

    I would question if it's fair to bring a child into the world if it is unwanted by its father.

    This is the prime reason why sleeping with your ex is never, ever wise..

    You sound resentful, "guywhogotsetup," your name being the obvious reason. You have no right to target the OP, it takes two to tango and I hardly doubt she was setting up her ex, in fact thats riddiculous. And whether or not the child is wanted or unwanted, its done now and he has no right to decide the fate of that baby.

    Op, I wouldnt regard this at all. Whats done is done and this is a traumatic time for you, especially the way you describe his possible reaction. However he does need to know this especially if you are going to have his baby.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭analbeads


    Why didn't you use protection? Did you tell him you were on the pill but then become pregnant?

    I would question if it's fair to bring a child into the world if it is unwanted by its father.

    This is the prime reason why sleeping with your ex is never, ever wise..


    child "unwanted by its father"...the pregnany is unknown to the father not unwanted. this man could turn out to be a great father, 99% of men do not set out to get a girl pregnant that they are not in a relationship but most of them wouldnt change it for the world when they meet their child.
    unplanned dose not mean unwanted

    op, i have being in your shoes and from my experience be prepared for him being in complete shock and he may say he dosnt want to be involved but give him the chance to get his head around it before writing him off as a father.
    many women cry/scream in horror when they find out their pregnant and consider abortion but thats not to say these same women love their child any less than a woman that planned to get pregnant and cried for joy looking at the test.....same as a shocked man

    all im saying is leave the door open......he may surprise you (i hope he dose):)
    and if things go the other way at least you can say that you left him with with the chocie of being involved or not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    HowandWhy wrote: »
    and with all due respect OP sleeping with ANYBODY not only ex's can lead to pregnancy

    I think the point is that since it's someone you've already decided that you don't want to be with (or vice versa) then there's a far less chance of it being a good outcome.

    If it were someone you had just started out with, it would still have potential.

    Aside from that, though, if ye're still in touch and hooking up then maybe you do still care for each other and there's some chance of it working out.

    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    It is kind of clear the guy assumed that because this lady was on the pill it absolved his responsibility to take precaution. That is ridiculous. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of guys who are happy enough to have unprotected sex and leave all control to the lady. Fine but don't squeal 'I was trapped' if you were too careless to put a johnny on. I have slept with a lot of men over the years and more then 80% never even ask and just try to go bareback (inc the married ones). As I really don't want a child (or STD) I always insist on a condom. How can you claim you were 'caught/trapped' if you never even bothered to take a modicum of control for yourself? If I was a man that did not want to risk having an unwanted pregancy I would put a glove on it and not leave it to someone I was not invested in emotionally in. To be honest I think any guy is frankly thick in the head who does not take an ounce of responsibility for protecting themselves. If you got an STD would you expect any sympathy = No. But girl gets pregnant = She told me she was on the pill, I was trapped....Retarded. Put a f*cking condom on if you don't want a child. Nothing is 100% proof but you are at least in the high 90%'s and can say with a bit more genuinely that you were caught.
    Honestly I have slept with an awful lot of men, in marriage, relationships, flings, affairs and one night stands. The thing that stands out for me most is that most men don't give a ****e about contraception and are happy to believe or just ask if the girl is on the pill and drive on bareback without taking any control over where there sperm ends up as they are caught up in the act.
    OP relax, take your time and tell the father when you are ready. At the very least he will be financially responsiple but you cannot force him to do more than that. Let him get his head around it. If you are going ahead with the pregnancy that is your choice if he wants more than financially responsibility that will be great but that is as much as he is legally obligated to, so accept his decision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58 ✭✭sara-lou


    Although you might not be ready to hear this but congratulations!

    i think you should get your head around this first, talk to friends or family before you tell the father. I think you need to be in a strong frame of mind to tell him and hormones and all it will be difficult.

    I don't see how he can be upset or feeling trapped, it might not be ideal circumstances but it is clearly not an attempt to get him back. He will be in shock when you tell him and it is unfortunate that you fear a bad reaction.

    I hope you stick to your guns bout not being with him cos he sounds really selfish. You have to do what is best for you and your baby from now on. this could be the best thing ever, try and took to somebody you need to be as positive as possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    He has a right to know but he doesnt have a right to make you miserable once he hears the info.

    If you were dealing with a normal person, then face to face is the right way to do it.

    But if you are dealing with someone who is going to lay their crap all over, write it in a letter and dont talk to them for a long time. You dont want a stressful pregnancy where cortisol is running through you and the baby.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 SHH


    Remember, England is only a few minutes away. You don't have to have it....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Curry Addict


    sorry if i sound harsh but why not just pick up the phone and just tell him?
    thinking of the consequences of telling him when weighed again the consequences of having casual intercourse leading to preganacy pretty much puts this issue in perspective.


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  • Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    SHH wrote: »
    Remember, England is only a few minutes away. You don't have to have it....

    she has said she knows she wants to keep it. its her ex thats the potential problem here, not her pregnancy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks to you all

    I will keep you posted on the reaction


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭SheRa


    Congratulations Op. I suspect that you are still in shock and dont know what to be thinking.

    You need to mind yourself and your baby. If meeting him to tell him is causing him this much stress, dont. You sound afraid of his reaction and you shouldnt be making yourself anxious at the moment (tho it is very understandable). I wouldnt suggest the letter as you will not know if/when he reads it. Ring him when he comes back from holidays. Make sure that he is alone and can talk and then tell him.

    My heart really goes out to you. I can only imagine how lonely and scared you are now.

    Contact this government agency http://www.positiveoptions.ie/ which has been set up to give non judgemental advice to women (and men) in this situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP, go to your doctor and check if your medication is safe to take. PLEASE do it as soon as possible - it's important!

    (And if you're still on the pill - stop!!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Honestly I have slept with an awful lot of men, in marriage, relationships, flings, affairs and one night stands. The thing that stands out for me most is that most men don't give a ****e about contraception

    I'd advise choosing my sleeping partners a little better, to be quite frank.

    Maybe most men that you've ended up with don't give a ****e, but you certainly can't extend that to "most men".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭MissHoneyBun


    Honestly I have slept with an awful lot of men, in marriage, relationships, flings, affairs and one night stands. The thing that stands out for me most is that most men don't give a ****e about contraception and are happy to believe or just ask if the girl is on the pill and drive on bareback without taking any control over where there sperm ends up as they are caught up in the act.

    Like Liam said, perhaps you should be more selective with who you are sleeping with. Hardly surprising that those who are willing to cheat aren't especially conscientious in other areas either.

    OP I think you need to sit down and have a frank discussion with your ex immediately. This is his child too and he has a right to know you're pregnant. However he chooses to react is his entitlement, the same way you were entitled to yours. You can't shout the odds and claim 50/50 responsibilty for becoming pregnant and then expect to call all the shots for the following nine months or indeed 18 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OK i had to call him
    I didn't sleep a wink and was shaking and sweating from the stress of it all so I had to call him and get it over with

    I just blurted it out - there was silence - after a few mins of silence and my heart racing I just said I had to go but then he called back a few mins later and was surprisingly amazing about it all and trying to calm me down and told me everything would be all right and he loved me

    I can't believe I was speaking to the same person I have known for all those years

    I feel so much better but still stressed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭analbeads


    op thats great news:)
    try not to stress, just relax and try and get your head around it. yes your life is going to complety change but it will be amazing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    HowandWhy wrote: »
    OK i had to call him
    I didn't sleep a wink and was shaking and sweating from the stress of it all so I had to call him and get it over with

    I just blurted it out - there was silence - after a few mins of silence and my heart racing I just said I had to go but then he called back a few mins later and was surprisingly amazing about it all and trying to calm me down and told me everything would be all right and he loved me

    I can't believe I was speaking to the same person I have known for all those years

    I feel so much better but still stressed

    thats wonderful to hear, OP, worst part is over now!! All the best!!! :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭chainsaws


    Why are you even considering having the child of a man who you don't love and who most likely will not want anything to do with you or the baby?
    Do you seriously think it is reasonable to bring up this baby alone?
    Is it reasonable to shackle a man who does not love you with fatherhood?
    Is it reasonable to bring a child into the world that is unwanted and is likely to grow up without a father?
    You should have an abortion.
    Find a man who loves you and cares about and have a baby with him.
    Having a baby would be worst thing you could possible do.
    Contact an abortion clinic in England, book yourself in and get rid of this unwanted pregnancy.
    You will be thankful in the long run.
    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    chainsaws wrote: »
    Why are you even considering having the child of a man who you don't love and who most likely will not want anything to do with you or the baby?
    Do you seriously think it is reasonable to bring up this baby alone?
    Is it reasonable to shackle a man who does not love you with fatherhood?
    Is it reasonable to bring a child into the world that is unwanted and is likely to grow up without a father?
    You should have an abortion.
    Find a man who loves you and cares about and have a baby with him.
    Having a baby would be worst thing you could possible do.
    Contact an abortion clinic in England, book yourself in and get rid of this unwanted pregnancy.
    You will be thankful in the long run.
    Best of luck.

    Christ almighty chainsaws, underminding single parents much?? Some of the best brought up people I know are from single parent families and have had a great upbringing. So your questions and tone of your post is absolute horseshít.

    "You should have an abortion, having a baby is the worst possible thing you could do"
    "Contact an abortion clinic in England, you'll be thankful in the long run"

    Who the hell are you to tell the OP or anyone that an abortion is the best way forward.

    You should really consider your posts more often. You were on another thread causing the same negative crap not helping the OP or even contributing towards what the OP is looking for, instead just disrupting the OP when they are clearly looking for advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    chainsaws wrote: »
    Why are you even considering having the child of a man who you don't love and who most likely will not want anything to do with you or the baby?
    Do you seriously think it is reasonable to bring up this baby alone?
    Is it reasonable to shackle a man who does not love you with fatherhood?
    Is it reasonable to bring a child into the world that is unwanted and is likely to grow up without a father?
    You should have an abortion.
    Find a man who loves you and cares about and have a baby with him.
    Having a baby would be worst thing you could possible do.
    Contact an abortion clinic in England, book yourself in and get rid of this unwanted pregnancy.
    You will be thankful in the long run.
    Best of luck.

    Have to say I agree completely. Well done for being honest with your opinion.

    I think it's wrong to put a child through this, selfish and inconsiderate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Chainsaw and Abba WTF???

    I have said already I dont want to have an abortion and I am keeping the baby I have also said that I love my ex and he loves me -

    I am pro life and you telling me to kill a child is sick to me - who are you to judge and play god

    I started this thread as I was looking for advice as to how to tell ex - I was not asking if I should continue the pregnancy etc

    How do you know that a child growing up with a single parent would be so bad - this child is already loved by me and wanted -

    I take such offense to your unhelfpful and unwanted comments


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    This is not a debate on single parents or abortion. Keep advice relevant to the OP.

    Unhelpful and off-topic posts can result in a ban.

    Many thanks

    Ickle


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Jagera


    HowAndWhy - Good to hear the fella is on board. best of luck with the upcoming adventure! Pay no mind to the somewhat crazy opinions of others about your predicament.

    Now the fun starts, you'll be blessed with a HowandWhy Jr in around 9 months.. exciting times ahead, now off to the Parenting forum with you!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭MissHoneyBun


    HowandWhy wrote: »
    I am afraid to tell him face to face as there will be questions as to how this happened and I cant answer those kinds of questions

    Why can't you if everything's as straightforward as you're maintaining? He can't be that bad since you clearly weren't afraid to sleep with him.

    Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this sounds a little dodgy but I honestly get the feeling we're being told a very calculated one side to this story.
    Not only because of the several dramatic references to her alleged 'fear' -why do we need to know about your 'shaking and sweating'? -but also the major difference in how the guy actually reacted as opposed to how the OP chose to portray him until she got the response she wanted. Not to mention the hostility towards posts that deviate from anything but what she wants to hear.

    Doesn't add up but the OP had clearly decided what she was going to do about all of this regardless of any input from the baby's father.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Why can't you if everything's as straightforward as you're maintaining? He can't be that bad since you clearly weren't afraid to sleep with him.

    Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this sounds a little dodgy but I honestly get the feeling we're being told a very calculated one side to this story.
    Not only because of the several dramatic references to her alleged 'fear' -why do we need to know about your 'shaking and sweating'? -but also the major difference in how the guy actually reacted as opposed to how the OP chose to portray him until she got the response she wanted. Not to mention the hostility towards posts that deviate from anything but what she wants to hear.

    Doesn't add up but the OP had clearly decided what she was going to do about all of this regardless of any input from the baby's father.

    Agree completely with everything you say here..

    My take on this is that the OP's ex was told she was on the pill. And he probably hasn't been told the truth yet..




    If you can't be honest in an anonymous forum, what hope do you have in real life...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Why can't you if everything's as straightforward as you're maintaining? He can't be that bad since you clearly weren't afraid to sleep with him.

    Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this sounds a little dodgy but I honestly get the feeling we're being told a very calculated one side to this story.
    Not only because of the several dramatic references to her alleged 'fear' -why do we need to know about your 'shaking and sweating'? -but also the major difference in how the guy actually reacted as opposed to how the OP chose to portray him until she got the response she wanted. Not to mention the hostility towards posts that deviate from anything but what she wants to hear.

    Doesn't add up but the OP had clearly decided what she was going to do about all of this regardless of any input from the baby's father.

    TBH I think your response sounds a little dodgy. Whats with the third degree?

    Have you ever had to tell someone you were pregnant? Pretty damned scary. That's why some dont.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭MissHoneyBun


    TBH I think your response sounds a little dodgy. Whats with the third degree?

    No third degree, just putting forth my opinion on a discussion board.
    What's dodgy about that? Unless of course you believe everything you read on the internet.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    Off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

    Please keep replies helpful to the OP.
    Please read the charter and abide by it.

    Thanks.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    Thread closed at OP's request.

    OP if you want this re-opened at any stage you can drop one of the mods a pm.


This discussion has been closed.
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