Immigrants targeted in Malmö shootings

seawolf145

A lone crazy gunman or someone who is trying to make a point?
You tell me.
source:
http://webnews.textalk.com/goteborg-daily/news/immigrants-targeted-in-malmo-shootings

Fo Real

1) We can't rule out the possibility that the gunman is an immigrant himself

2) If it is a white Swede, maybe it's his twisted way of venting his frustration at the the government's neglect of the natives.

A third of Malmo residents are foreign born, the majority being Muslim. They will, of course, bring significant cultural change to the city in such large numbers. The whites must feel marginalised as their city is changing so rapidly in front of their eyes, especially when they had no say in this change.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

1) We can't rule out the possibility that the gunman is an immigrant himself

2) If it is a white Swede, maybe it's his twisted way of venting his frustration at the the government's neglect of the natives.

A third of Malmo residents are foreign born, the majority being Muslim. They will, of course, bring significant cultural change to the city in such large numbers. The whites must feel marginalised as their city is changing so rapidly in front of their eyes, especially when they had no say in this change.

So you're trying to justify this by speculation about what the "whites" feel like......?

seawolf145

Nodin wrote: »

So you're trying to justify this by speculation about what the "whites" feel like......?

No probably just trying to justify the future of Europe

wes

If it is a organized group, then surely this is terrorism. It may be a lone racist nut job as well however.

Nodin

seawolf145 wrote: »

No probably just trying to justify the future of Europe

....do explain please.

seawolf145

Nodin wrote: »

....do explain please.

Read the news,do really need to explain????

oscarBravo

seawolf145 wrote: »

Read the news,do really need to explain????

Yes, you do. This is a discussion forum. If you're not interested in discussion, don't post.

seawolf145

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, you do. This is a discussion forum. If you're not interested in discussion, don't post.

Gotten out of bed on the wrong side today maybe?Hungover maybe.
When things are so obvious i dont see any point in discussing it,but thats me.Any problems with that?And its not only me here.

oscarBravo

seawolf145 wrote: »

Any problems with that?

Yes. Take a week off to think about it.

dsmythy

You'd expect someone to claim the shootings if it was immigrant related. It could be just lunatic related.

erikbloodaxe

dsmythy wrote: »

You'd expect someone to claim the shootings if it was immigrant related. It could be just lunatic related.

Not always.there was a similar case in Sweden back in the 90s.
The socalled "laserman" as he was nicknamed.
Source

And i believe he came from a emmigrant background himself.

ValJester

There's been a surge in anti-immigrant sentiment in Sweden, with their BNP equivalent undergoing a rise in support.I wouldn't be surprised to see there's a link.

jugger0

Why are so many muslims coming to Europe?

The swedes have had enough i guess, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWbY5PNnJU stuff like that doesnt help the muslims, they dont intergrate either.

Not long now before race riots and all that crap:rolleyes:

Keptic

jugger0 wrote: »

Why are so many muslims coming to Europe?

Wouldn't you go yourself to a nice, safe (sic!) muslim country that would pay you money just because you decided to live there as well as abandon it's own traditions, as they could insult you in some way? :rolleyes:

I would...

Nodin

Keptic wrote: »

Wouldn't you go yourself to a nice, safe (sic!) muslim country that would pay you money just because you decided to live there as well as abandon it's own traditions, as they could insult you in some way? :rolleyes:

I would...

What "traditions" are the Swedes abandoning, as a matter of interest....?

jugger0

Nodin wrote: »

What "traditions" are the Swedes abandoning, as a matter of interest....?

Free speech for one.

Nodin

jugger0 wrote: »

Free speech for one.

I was unaware they had. You've some news source for that, perchance?

Keptic

Nodin wrote: »

I was unaware they had. You've some news source for that, perchance?

Have you heard of "Mahomet cartoons"?

Ah, that was actually Denmark, sorry..

jugger0

Nodin wrote: »

I was unaware they had. You've some news source for that, perchance?

Ya check the link on the previous page, check this too
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

Nodin

jugger0 wrote: »

Ya check the link on the previous page, check this too
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

The above article doesn't have anything to do with "freedom of speech" in its content that I can see....and the fact of its existence and content would rather suggest that free speech is alive and well where he/she is based.

The previous page has a link to a few headers complaining about the content of a video.

So again - The question was - " What "traditions" are the Swedes abandoning, as a matter of interest....?
And the reply was "Free Speech for one".

Could we have some evidence for the Swedes/state of Sweden giving up and/or abandoning their "traditions" in the specfic form of free speech, if ye would....

Keptic

Nodin wrote: »

the Swedes

Do they have to be the Swedes? Couldn't it be, lets say, UK? Like the one with Christmas with no Christmas Tree in the class (insulting muslim kids) or recently found (will find again) about closing small takeaway because of the smell of the fried bacon (insulting muslims)? I find them links and post here at my earliest convenience.

I realise that these are probably exceptions that do not apply to the majority, but no way I can agree with the fact that we have the same rights, care, freedom and equal treatment in Muslim countries like they get in EU. Have you ever heard of a battle in any of Muslim goverments in the Middle East about european women having right to wear miniskirts or going topless on the beach?

Nodin

Keptic wrote: »

Do they have to be the Swedes? ?

Yes, unless the shooter decides he wants to winter somewhere else.

Keptic wrote: »

or recently found (will find again) about closing small takeaway because of the smell of the fried bacon (insulting muslims)? I find them links and post here at my earliest convenience. ?

The Daily Fail. I've gone through that comprehensively here, from post 476 to more or less the end of the thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056062904&page=32

Keptic wrote: »

I realise that these are probably exceptions that do not apply to the majority, but no way I can agree with the fact that we have the same rights, care, freedom and equal treatment in Muslim countries like they get in EU.

I do what I consider to be the "right thing" because I consider it to be the right thing to do. That isn't dependent on somebody else acting in a similar fashion. The all too often repeated 'But the Saudis....' isn't really a logically sound argument. Otherwise we'd still have beheadings here.

jugger0

Nodin wrote: »

The above article doesn't have anything to do with "freedom of speech" in its content that I can see....and the fact of its existence and content would rather suggest that free speech is alive and well where he/she is based.

The previous page has a link to a few headers complaining about the content of a video.

So again - The question was - " What "traditions" are the Swedes abandoning, as a matter of interest....?
And the reply was "Free Speech for one".

Could we have some evidence for the Swedes/state of Sweden giving up and/or abandoning their "traditions" in the specfic form of free speech, if ye would....

The previous video i linked... watch it and see how the muslims express themselves, if you express views different to theirs they wish jihad upon you. The second link is worrying IMO. Sweden is pretty much being destroyed from the inside out and nobody is doing anything about it? look at the statistics on the crime rates, disgusting.
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/

Why is the european union flooding itself with these "people"? this is only going to get worse.

Keptic

Nodin wrote: »

I do what I consider to be the "right thing" because I consider it to be the right thing to do. That isn't dependent on somebody else acting in a similar fashion. The all too often repeated 'But the Saudis....' isn't really a logically sound argument. Otherwise we'd still have beheadings here.

If you* feed a random, hungry dog - because you simply feel it's the right thing to do - and the dog bites your hand, you may say it's an accident. If you feed the dog and your hand gets bitten again - you may find another excuse. If it happens over and over again but you keep feeding the dog and your hand keeps getting hurt - you're either, excuse me, not a very wise guy or enojy being bitten. Your choice, but you can't expect everyone to share this passion.

* - I refer to "you" as anyone, not you in particular.

meglome

and the assailant shot that last person in the back too... lovely guy obviously.

djpbarry

jugger0 wrote: »

Why are so many muslims coming to Europe?

jugger0 wrote: »

Why is the european union flooding itself with these "people"?

There are an estimated 1.57 billion Muslims worldwide, of which an estimated 13 million live in the EU.

So a better question to ask would perhaps be, given that over 99.2% of all Muslims live outside the EU and over 97.4% of EU residents are non-Muslim, what’s with all this hysteria about the “Islamisation” of Europe?

Bottle_of_Smoke

djpbarry wrote: »

There are an estimated 1.57 billion Muslims worldwide, of which an estimated 13 million live in the EU.

So a better question to ask would perhaps be, given that over 99.2% of all Muslims live outside the EU and over 97.4% of EU residents are non-Muslim, what’s with all this hysteria about the “Islamisation” of Europe?

Doesn't look like the numbers are that low in EU cities. Take a walk around PAris, Amsterdam, London, Dublin etc

Accession states skewing the statistics a bit I'd imagine.

Tordenskjold

Nodin wrote: »

I was unaware they had. You've some news source for that, perchance?

Sweden have had freedom of speech since 1974,the same goes for the rest of scandinavia.:)

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/emire/SWEDEN/ANCHOR-YTTRANDEFRIHET-SE.htm

Tordenskjold

Nodin wrote: »

The above article doesn't have anything to do with "freedom of speech" in its content that I can see....and the fact of its existence and content would rather suggest that free speech is alive and well where he/she is based.

The previous page has a link to a few headers complaining about the content of a video.

So again - The question was - " What "traditions" are the Swedes abandoning, as a matter of interest....?
And the reply was "Free Speech for one".

Could we have some evidence for the Swedes/state of Sweden giving up and/or abandoning their "traditions" in the specfic form of free speech, if ye would....

The swedish media is no longer allowed to give names or ethnic background of a person that commits a criminal offence,something they did 10 years ago,simly to avoid the reactions from the public.
So yes it will affect the freedom of speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilla_Saltsj%C3%B6badsavtalet

Nodin

Tordenskjold wrote: »

The swedish media is no longer allowed to give names or ethnic background of a person that commits a criminal offence,something they did 10 years ago,simly to avoid the reactions from the public.
So yes it will affect the freedom of speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilla_Saltsj%C3%B6badsavtalet

From your link....

Lilla Saltsjöbadsavtalet is an alleged meeting which is claimed to have occurred

In 2009, editor-in-chief of Kristianstadsbladet, Lasse Bernfalk, described "Lilla Saltsjöbadsavtalet" as "nothing other than a myth".

In 2010, editor-in-chief of Expressen, Thomas Mattsson, claimed that talk of "a "tacit agreement", where one sometimes argue that "Svenska journalistklubben" met at the Grand Hotel in Saltsjöbaden 1987 and signed "Lilla Saltsjöbadsavtalet" on trying to leave problems of the multicultural society in the dark", was a "myth"[6] and "conspiracy theory".[7]

(my bold, where present)

wes

Keptic wrote: »

. Have you ever heard of a battle in any of Muslim goverments in the Middle East about european women having right to wear miniskirts or going topless on the beach?

Well, some European governments seem to be banning Mini skirts:
Miniskirts ban planned by Italian resort

I guess, as Muslims aren't the ones doing it, then people seem to not have any issues with it....

Also, doubly interesting, how the thread has become about Muslims, as opposed to a nutter shooting people. I also note the lack of condemnation and the conspiracy theories. Very interesting I must say.

Nodin

jugger0 wrote: »

The previous video i linked... watch it and see how the muslims express themselves, if you express views different to theirs they wish jihad upon you..

Headers do that. Its why they're headers.

You've still nothing about Swedes "abandoning" their freedom of speech, IMO.

jugger0 wrote: »

The second link is worrying IMO. Sweden is pretty much being destroyed from the inside out and nobody is doing anything about it? look at the statistics on the crime rates, disgusting.
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/
..

They took 114 cases from a total of 253 court rulings, out of a total of 6,000 rape reports. I seem to recall the other party crying "bollocks" on that. You might note that report concludes these people are "foreign born" not muslim. The implication they're all muslim is added by the blogs author....

jugger0 wrote: »

Why is the european union flooding itself with these "people"? this is only going to get worse.

Who are you referring to and why do you use quotations around people?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Keptic wrote: »

Do they have to be the Swedes? Couldn't it be, lets say, UK? Like the one with Christmas with no Christmas Tree in the class (insulting muslim kids) or recently found (will find again) about closing small takeaway because of the smell of the fried bacon (insulting muslims)? I find them links and post here at my earliest convenience.

I realise that these are probably exceptions that do not apply to the majority, but no way I can agree with the fact that we have the same rights, care, freedom and equal treatment in Muslim countries like they get in EU. Have you ever heard of a battle in any of Muslim goverments in the Middle East about european women having right to wear miniskirts or going topless on the beach?

As much as I dislike the PC around Christmas displays in school I really hate the ''we wouldn't have rights in Muslim countries'' argument.

They are often dictatorships or ''Democracy is fine in Iran, says Supreme Leader'' type governments.

Individual liberties cherished in the west can't be denied to Muslims because Muslim leaders in medieval countries deny liberties to westerners. That would be stooping to their level and providing a precedent to curtail further non-religious liberties here.

southsiderosie

I also have to wonder why all anti-Christmas/religious symbol campaigning is being blamed on Muslims.

The European Court of Human Rights heard a case filed by an immigrant in Italy who claimed that the presence of the crucifix in public school classrooms was a violation of "religious and educational freedom". The ECHR sided with her, and fined the school.

The woman who brought the case was from Finland.

In most Western countries, the biggest complainers about religious displays aren't Muslims, they are atheists.

Nodin

I have to say, I preferred the 'We Must Build Bunkers To Survive The Coming Disaster' form of doomsday talk that was fashionable in the 1980's. "Survivalism". I used get the odd copy of Guns n Ammo and they had a survivalist page where fantasists could get worked up....'Dear Bob, which do you think will be the most valuable trading goods for dancing girls supplies - precious metals or ammunition?'....This whole "muzlims r commin' just has a nasty undertone to it....

Fo Real

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Individual liberties cherished in the west can't be denied to Muslims because Muslim leaders in medieval countries deny liberties to westerners. That would be stooping to their level and providing a precedent to curtail further non-religious liberties here.

I think we have finally made a breakthrough

Do you now accept that Muslim countries are less advanced than Western ones? ("medieval", as you put it) Perhaps you will revisit your views on a Palestinian state. Israel has made the desert bloom and created a Silicon Valley in the Middle East. They are a beacon of light among all the backwardness of Islam.

I must mention, however, that the Arabs had pretty advanced mathemathics and science before Islam came along. I refuse to allow this backwardness to infiltrate Europe and drag us down.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Fo Real wrote: »

I think we have finally made a breakthrough

Do you now accept that Muslim countries are less advanced than Western ones? ("medieval", as you put it) Perhaps you will revisit your views on a Palestinian state. Israel has made the desert bloom and created a Silicon Valley in the Middle East. They are a beacon of light among all the backwardness of Islam.

I must mention, however, that the Arabs had pretty advanced mathemathics and science before Islam came along. I refuse to allow this backwardness to infiltrate Europe and drag us down.

It was more that I said Muslim leaders in medieval countries. Not ''All Muslim countries are medieval''

eg would rather live in Turkey/Egypt than Democratic Republic of Congo.

The argument that Israel being a shining beacon because they're not Muslim is so flawed I don't know where to begin. And to be honest I don't have a strong opinion about Israel/Palestine because that place is like ulster of the 70s but somehow far more messed up. Ergo I haven't a clue what is the best for it.

wes

Fo Real wrote: »

Do you now accept that Muslim countries are less advanced than Western ones? ("medieval", as you put it) Perhaps you will revisit your views on a Palestinian state. Israel has made the desert bloom and created a Silicon Valley in the Middle East. They are a beacon of light among all the backwardness of Islam.

Oh for goodness sake, no need to drag in the Israel/Palestine conflict, by reciting the old Zionists racist bull**** against Palestinians.

Fo Real wrote: »

I must mention, however, that the Arabs had pretty advanced mathemathics and science before Islam came along. I refuse to allow this backwardness to infiltrate Europe and drag us down.

Well, as can be seen by an Italian mayor trying to ban mini skirts, we are more than capable of doing that ourselves. Also, its wasn't that long ago, when Europe was just as crazy as the ME. Also, a lot of the Arab achievenments in Maths happened after Islam, but again irrelevant to the thread.

So again, the thread becomes about Muslims/Islam, as opposed to a nut job (or nut jobs) shooting people for having the wrong colour skin. Again, very very interesting....

JustinDee

Fo Real wrote: »

I must mention, however, that the Arabs had pretty advanced mathemathics and science before Islam came along

Wrong.

southsiderosie

Fo Real wrote: »

I think we have finally made a breakthrough

Do you now accept that Muslim countries are less advanced than Western ones? ("medieval", as you put it) Perhaps you will revisit your views on a Palestinian state. Israel has made the desert bloom and created a Silicon Valley in the Middle East. They are a beacon of light among all the backwardness of Islam.

I must mention, however, that the Arabs had pretty advanced mathemathics and science before Islam came along. I refuse to allow this backwardness to infiltrate Europe and drag us down.

Most Arab countries are Muslim, but not all Muslims are Arabs. The most populous Muslim countries are in South and Southeast Asia. Malaysia is a vibrant, growing country, and they have been on the up and up for a while now.

I think that many Arab Muslims' cultural attitudes regarding women are barbaric, and the sad thing is, these societies were a lot more "modern" forty years ago, when Arab nationalism not Islam was the main political battle cry. But most Arab nationalist leaders, fueled by oil money and backed by the US turned out to be corrupt and authoritarian, and many made devil's pacts with Islamic hardliners in order to maintain their own political positions. And now it is biting them (and us) in the ass.

I don't see the big issue as Islam per se. I see it as religious fundamentalism. Christian fundamentalists have a terrible track record of backwardness and violence as well, from the Spanish Inquisition (which drained Spain of much of its brainpower) to bible-thumping American evangelicals who are anti-science and anti-woman.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

I think we have finally made a breakthrough

Do you now accept that Muslim countries are less advanced than Western ones? ("medieval", as you put it) Perhaps you will revisit your views on a Palestinian state. Israel has made the desert bloom and created a Silicon Valley in the Middle East. They are a beacon of light among all the backwardness of Islam..

Sectarian stereotypes, historically inaccurate....

Fo Real wrote: »

I must mention, however, that the Arabs had pretty advanced mathemathics and science before Islam came along.

...
In the history of mathematics, mathematics in medieval Islam, often termed Islamic mathematics, is the mathematics developed in the Islamic world between 622 and 1600, during what is known as the Islamic Golden Age, in that part of the world where Islam was the dominant religion. Islamic science and mathematics flourished under the Islamic caliphate (also known as the Islamic Empire) established across the Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa, Southern Italy, the Iberian Peninsula, and, at its peak, parts of France and India as well. Islamic activity in mathematics was largely centered around modern-day Iraq and Persia, but at its greatest extent stretched from North Africa and Spain in the west to India in the east.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_medieval_Islam

This, I note, is not the first time I've had to correct your historical inaccuracies. The last time was with regards to people wishing to visit Spain and see its traditional dancing, not "muslims", which ignores the massive north African muslim influence on traditional spanish culture.....its getting a bit tiresome, I have to say.

Fo Real

wes wrote: »

Well, as can be seen by an Italian mayor trying to ban mini skirts, we are more than capable of doing that ourselves. Also, its wasn't that long ago, when Europe was just as crazy as the ME. Also, a lot of the Arab achievenments in Maths happened after Islam, but again irrelevant to the thread.

What do you mean by "ourselves"? You're not European.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

What do you mean by "ourselves"? You're not European.

He lives in Europe as a citizen of a European country, therefore he's European.

You might be better addressing his point.

Fo Real

Nodin wrote: »

He lives in Europe as a citizen of a European country, therefore he's European.

You might be better addressing his point.

I'm talking about ethnicity here. A piece of paper doesn't make you European. He is a muslim and so has divided loyalties.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

I'm talking about ethnicity here. A piece of paper doesn't make you European. He is a muslim and so has divided loyalties.

Divided loyalties? To who, the Pope of Muslims?

Again, address the point, not the poster.

wes

Fo Real wrote: »

What do you mean by "ourselves"? You're not European.

Um, yes I am.........

Also, either way completely irrelevant.

southsiderosie

Fo Real wrote: »

I'm talking about ethnicity here. A piece of paper doesn't make you European. He is a muslim and so has divided loyalties.

So to be European, you have to be Christian?

Are atheists not Europeans?

This is probably the stupidest post I have ever come across on boards, and that is saying A LOT.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

I'm talking about ethnicity here. A piece of paper doesn't make you European. He is a muslim and so has divided loyalties.

...by the way, "muslim" isn't an ethnicity.

Lab_Mouse

Fo Real wrote: »

I'm talking about ethnicity here. A piece of paper doesn't make you European. He is a muslim and so has divided loyalties.

Are you for real?Could he not be a secular muslim?

Fo Real

@Nodin: I never said Islam was an ethnicity. Not the first time you tried to put words into my mouth.

@Southsiderosie: No you don't have to be Christian to be European. And Europe has a heritage of atheism. Ever hear of the Enlightenment? However, while Christianity and atheism aren't neccessary to be European, they don't harm our values and traditions - like free speech, tolerance of homosexuals, equality of women.

@Wes: I find it hard to compromise being European and being a Muslim. What are your views on homosexuals as a matter of interest?

@Lab mouse: "secular Muslim" is an oxymoron. Islam isn't an ethnicity.