Can it work second time around?

Doode

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting on any forum and having been a long time reader I think there is some good advice on here. Firstly to say I have a very good friend that I talk to and we are great sounding boards for each other, but I would like the opinion of people who don't know me...I suppose people like you on the outside looking in :-)

I am a girl in my mid thirties; how did I get to this age unattached? Well I was with someone for eight years up until two years ago when we finally called it a day after years of a very heartache and pain on both sides. For some of the time it was good but for the most part it was soul destroying; many factors but him being 18 years older than me, ex wife (he was separated four years before meeting me), kids, him being insecure most of the time it all came to a head when we called off the wedding 6 months before the date. Absolutely no regrets in doing this on either side and we have both moved on and remained friends.

After a year of getting my life back on track, buying my own house, tying up loose ends, I finally decided that I would like to start dating again. So I joined a dating website. Having always met guys the bog standard way (pubs, clubs), I decided to try this new avenue and didn't read too much into it. After a couple of weeks a guy grabbed my attention. He sent a cheeky email and it made me laugh. I have to add this; I am a tall girl, 5ft 10in, this guy is 5ft 7in, and his initial email was jokingly focused around that. He 42 years old, separated 5 years (together 8 years, married for 5 months), no kids; he was very badly betrayed by his ex wife and she walked out and it took a long time for him to get over it. In some ways our relationship past was quite similar. We finally decided to meet up after a month of emails and texts and talking, all of which I suppose we were falling for each other. When we did have our first date, it was great. We hit it off and had lots to talk about. However when I seen him for the first time on that date, I suppose I felt the height was an issue for me but he didn't seem to mind at all. He told me afterwards that the first time he seen me, when I walked across the room to him, the first thing that entered his head was, how am I going to hold on to her? :-)

We started to date and see each other quite frequently and did lots of exciting things together. We both came off the dating website and soon became a couple and all the while we were falling head over heels. However, always in the back of my mind I was very conscious that I was taller than him, silly now looking back, but at the time it seemed like a big deal. I also felt that he still had a lot of issues from his past as did I, and I became a little withdrawn. For a little while it became a bit of an emotional rollercoaster and it was very unfair on him. He told me, for the first time in years he opened up to a girl and told me things that he didn't even tell his ex wife and he felt so close to me. He told me he was frightened of getting hurt again after such a devastating past relationship, but wanted to make that jump into the unknown with me. But for all the feelings I had for him I couldn't make up my mind if I really wanted to be with him! Until of February this year, we went away for a long weekend and I realised that he is the love of my life and I wanted to create a future with him. He felt the same and told me that he had no longer wanted to look for someone and found the person that was perfect for him, in every way :-)

So fast forward to April this year; I am not going to go into too much detail here as it is very longwinded and complicated but needless to say I found out that the man I loved was still on two dating websites. He had received and sent numerous emails to other girls, general chit chat conversations, but some of them suggesting if they would like to meet up. Some of them were conversations going back to not long after we met and still continued months later. One in particular he had arranged a dinner date, but she cancelled at the last minute and he was quite upset with her. All I can say is, if you have ever had an experience where your whole world shatters before your eyes, you can't breathe, let alone think or even comprehend what you are seeing/reading...you will know exactly how I felt at that moment in time. I will admit that I invaded his privacy, but I had good reason and on what I found....but please understand not everything is black and white. Even now as I think about it, I feel physically sick for opening his emails, but if I hadn't would he have ever told me?

I confronted him and initially he denied it but I had read the emails so he knew he couldn't get out of it. He was so angry with me for invading his privacy but I suspect alot of that anger was the result of getting caught. It was such a devastating day for both of us, so emotional, heartbreaking. Anyway, we split up a few weeks later...he felt that his behaviour, while wrong and hurtful was justified in my rollercoaster of emotions and him not feeling secure with me. He said he wanted to feel that he was normal and was making the right decision in staying with me. Now I know few of you will understand this, but in some ways I can; I created instability for months in my on/off behaviour and he felt that he was going to be left high and dry by me like his ex wife did to him.

During the last 6 months, we have had some contact and met up a couple of times, both friendly and of course there is still a spark there. In that time, our feelings for each other never changed. We love and care for each other and realised that we had both made the biggest mistake of our life in messing up what we had. I dated a couple of guys during the summer, nothing serious, but all the while he was in my head. I still loved him and couldn't move on. He admitted to me that, he was too rash in us ending it but still found it hard to trust me and didn't know if he could trust me again. If I'm being honest, it would take alot of working through for me to trust him again. I know he is sincerely sorry for any hurt he caused as am I in my fickle behaviour throughout the relationship.
In the last couple of months we have been been in contact most days, emails, texts before bed and we have met up a few times at weekends. We always had so much in common and we are good on so many levels.

Two weeks ago, we had our first proper talk about what happened a few months ago and we both decided that this is what we want...to be together and put the past behind us. Granted we have a lot to sort out and issues that need to be addressed but we feel so strongly about each other that we want to do this. I really feel that he is the person for me, it took me a long time to realise it and despite our mistakes, I am now certain he is the man I have waited for all my life.
Last weekend we spent it together, had a lovely couple of days, nothing too hectic, just spending time together. We always laugh and find amusement in everyday things, have similar interests, love hanging out together...so all in all, we are very comfortable around each other.
Since Sunday, he has seemed distant, not his usual self. I asked him yesterday if everything was ok, did something happen as he seemed to be a bit aloof. He said that he felt things were different between us, that he wasn't sure if "it" was still there anymore between us. He still cared about me but with everything that had went before, he wasn't sure if he was the person for me. He said it wasn't a case of "it's not you, it's me"...but it's both of us and the mistakes we made. He said that he wasn't running away from it but facing it...he just wasn't sure if there was enough between us anymore to carry us through. He said that he needs to be convinced or needed to think about it more. The thing is, I don't know if I believe him. I seen the way we have been together for the last couple of weeks and it doesn't add up. And before anyone thinks it, I am certain there is no one else. He is a deep thinker and he is never black and white. He loves the shades of grey...and that is one of the things that I like best about him.

Anyway, I told him honestly how I felt...that I wanted to be with him and my feelings have not changed. I am no longer angry with him and feel there is too much there between us to loose. He agreed, and that we would speak about this again soon and left the conversation at that.

I apologise for the length of my email but I need you to see it from both angles. The feelings I have for his man are very true and not like anything I have felt before but I don't know how to hold on to him :-)
Do you think there is a second chance for us? Has anyone been in a similar experience and if so how did it work out for both of you?

Any advice out there would be much appreciated.

Miss Fluff

You shouldn't feel you have to "hold on to him" as you put it.

If you want my honest opinion, I think it is very hard to come to the appropriate decision when you're in contact all the time. Even in the aftermath of it going t1ts up, you kept in contact all the time and sent goodnight texts etc. To my mind this only confuses things. Feelings become hazy and it's very hard to see a relationship for what it really is if you don't have time to fully step back from the situation and assess how you really feel about the person. You don't have the space to do so when you're in contact so much.

I wouldn't want to be as fatalistic to think that under no circumstances can a relationship work a second time. I'm sure some do. I'd certainly like to hear about them though because tbh unless the reasons why you split up in the first place have been fully addressed and dealt with, they normally resurface in some shape or form.

I think the best thing you can do for now is to agree to a month of no contact. Be strict with yourself, make sure he adheres to it too. It sounds like you both could really do with it. At the end of that thinking time both you and he should really know what you both want and whether you want to build a future together. Right now you've convinced yourself it's what you want and he's not entirely sure what he wants. That's really not a great foundation for a sustainable future now is it? I think you owe it to yourselves to take some time out and figure out for sure what you do want.

Cheap Thrills!

Look, his 'story' is his ex wife 'badly betrayed' him. Why I wonder? Because to me he sounds very manipulative and unstable.

'deep thinker' is another phrase for 'full of ****' and is a handy excuse for chopping and changing moods.

His 'excuse' for chatting up the other women in the background was also a classic. 'You're so hot that I had to have a backup plan as I was afraid I wouldn't be able to hold onto you'

Handy that, it's your fault and also it's complementary so it makes you feel simultaneously to blame and warm and fuzzy inside (oh JOY he thinks I'm such a catch!!!)

He said that he felt things were different between us, that he wasn't sure if "it" was still there anymore between us. He still cared about me but with everything that had went before, he wasn't sure if he was the person for me.

Hmph, I bet you any money he's got a sniff of interest from someone 'better'. I'm totally guessing but from his past record he seems a man who hedges his bets and is always on the lookout for an upgrade. What happens in the past is often a good indicator of what will happen in the present/future. He has had to throw a mood on and attribute it to this sudden vague 'not sureness' that has suddenly sprung from nowhere.
It's b0llocks.

He said it wasn't a case of "it's not you, it's me"...but it's both of us and the mistakes we made.

:rolleyes: Fcuking hell. Such shyte, he's done the classic old diversionary tactic there of dragging your small mistake down to the level of his rather huge 'mistake' -actually what he did was purposeful and the only mistake he made in his eyes was getting caught.

Regardless anyway, he's talking shyte. He is preparing the ground and priming you so that if things take off elsewhere you will be riddled with self recriminations over trivial while he makes a clean getaway.

Funny that. Just like his ex, she was to blame, now if you two dont work out you'll be to blame.

He said that he wasn't running away from it but facing it...he just wasn't sure if there was enough between us anymore to carry us through. He said that he needs to be convinced or needed to think about it more.

Ok HE has the doubts but YOU are expected to do the work of convincing him. Oh please. Do yourself a favour and ditch this waster. He is nothing but a boil in the bag headache. Deep thinker, he's just a self absorbed everyman window shopping in the well stocked candy store of nervous women in their middle thirties

Don't be a victim to the syndrome. He doesn't fit, he doesn't fit. Don't try to make him fit. It's not supposed to be this hard with all this existential angst. Either he wants to be with you or he doesn't, if he 'doesn't know' -regard that as a 'NO'

basecamp1

mind games central. get rid

Fittle

Ok, so I'm going to talk as someone who has also met men on internet dating sites.

Hand-on-heart, he sounds like about 4 of the guys I met, practically down to the 'betrayl' story by the ex-wife and the 'He still cares about me but with everything that had went before, he isn't sure if he was the person for me'. Seriously, I'd swear I know him.

I'm going to be really blunt here OP.

You're a sucker. You're EXACTLY the type of woman he 'gets-off' on. The other women he was mailing, just about to meet etc, no doubt had heard the exact same story from him. I'd put my last penny on the fact that he's still on those dating sites (or one site at least). He tells them all the same story, because that's what 'does' it for him.

Sorry OP, but he is the type of man who hooks up with women like you, all the while waiting for someone better to come along (because that's what he's doing here). He probably won't grow up OP, but you need to get away from him.

And google his username from the original site - I bet he's still online.

Doode

Hi there, OP here. Thank you for all the replies and taking time out to read my email.
I have always felt since I found out about his contact with other women that he was transferring his guilt into blame and mis-trust on to me. Again not that I condone snooping into someone's privacy, but when you have good reason and it's primarily to protect yourself, it was a necessary evil on my part, but he still thinks that this invasion is beyond reproach and seems to outway his behaviour.

A couple of you mentioned that perhaps the pressure of being in my thirties as a single girl is something to do with my feelings for him; I suppose when you are that age, you want it to work out because you know it gets harder to meet guys and despite his shortcomings I do know underneath it all he is a decent person. However his integrity in the last week has made me question alot, hence why I asked for the advice of the lovely people on here. I think you probably adviced alot of what I suspected to hear, but only a stranger will tell you.

On a final note, I will say, when a girl reaches a certain age and wants to be in a loving stable relationship and have children, the rug being pulled from underneath you can make the fall all that harder. Despite all the hustle and bustle of life, long days at work, trying to keep on top of the everyday and embracing the time with family and friends; in those quiet moments when no one is around, the silence can be deafening and the space can be blinding and all you want is a family of your own to fill it. It shouldn't make us desperate but it makes us want to try all the harder to make it work.
I think that's where I am coming from, but in this instance, I am being treated like a complete idiot...and believe me, that I am not. Everyone deserves a second chance and I was willing to give that to him but after quite clearly seeing the wood for the trees, I value my integrity more

Cheap Thrills!

Well done. A bad relationship is worse than no relationship at all. I really don't say that lightly. I've been there, I know that silence you talk about!

I wish you all the very best in the future.

TitoPuente

Seems to be a lot of misnadry dripping from this thread and very little perspective.

It sounds to me like the guy is still reeling from the emotional rollercoaster he was dragged through. It's probably worth pointing out that engaging in a relationship with someone and treating them with apathy and emotional unavailability is tantamount to emotional abuse. This is probably why he's having trouble trusting you, why he probably tried quite desperately to seek out 'greener pastures', etc.

I'm not making excuses for either of you although it sounds to me like either you both go your seperate ways or you work your asses off to help rebuild the trust that was lost. It's not that hard to do if both of you are willing to work at it.

MsHolloway

Hi Doode, just a few thoughts I had when I read your post

Doode wrote: »

On a final note, I will say, when a girl reaches a certain age and wants to be in a loving stable relationship and have children, the rug being pulled from underneath you can make the fall all that harder.

I completely understand this, but isn't it much better to find out about himself being on dating websites and talking to other girls about meeting up, then when a couple of years down the line when children are brought into the mix? I think you dodged a major bullet here op!

Doode wrote: »

Everyone deserves a second chance and I was willing to give that to him but after quite clearly seeing the wood for the trees, I value my integrity more

And you gave him that second chance. I'm not sure how he can equate the betrayal of chatting to other girls on dating sites about meeting up with the "betrayal" of looking through his emails when your intuition told you something was up. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said he was transferring his guilt into blame and mis-trust on to you. What a way to make you feel like you were the one in the wrong!! Is it right to look through people's email? no, but when its the only way to find out if something dodge is going on, well like you said self preservation comes into play.

Again, I think you dodged a major bullet here op!

I'm really glad you are seeing the wood from the trees now, you deserve better, and don't stop until you find it!

TitoPuente

MsHolloway wrote: »

I think you dodged a major bullet here op!

I don't see it quite like that.

I became a little withdrawn. For a little while it became a bit of an emotional rollercoaster and it was very unfair on him. He told me, for the first time in years he opened up to a girl and told me things that he didn't even tell his ex wife and he felt so close to me. He told me he was frightened of getting hurt again after such a devastating past relationship, but wanted to make that jump into the unknown with me. But for all the feelings I had for him I couldn't make up my mind if I really wanted to be with him!

Sounds to me like the trust was destroyed right here.

Unlike some people on this thread, I'm sure both of you are good people. Either you both work on it very hard or you go your seperate ways.

Doode

TitoPuente wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of misnadry dripping from this thread and very little perspective.

It sounds to me like the guy is still reeling from the emotional rollercoaster he was dragged through. It's probably worth pointing out that engaging in a relationship with someone and treating them with apathy and emotional unavailability is tantamount to emotional abuse. This is probably why he's having trouble trusting you, why he probably tried quite desperately to seek out 'greener pastures', etc.

I'm not making excuses for either of you although it sounds to me like either you both go your seperate ways or you work your asses off to help rebuild the trust that was lost. It's not that hard to do if both of you are willing to work at it.

Hi TitoPuente, yes you are right in what you have said. In writing my original post, I was trying to show that I was part of the cause, and when I read these emails from other girls I could pin point the timings of when they were written against me not engaging fully with him. So I guess he was dipping in and out of "greener pastures" when things weren't so good.
However, when I did come to my senses and commit fully to him, the emails between him and other girls didn't stop. He was arranging dates a couple of months after that. Even the morning that I found out, he had received an email from a girl thanking him for giving her his number!!

One thing I will say about internet dating; it is very addictive and boosts moral getting attention from the opposite sex. With him, I really think this was the case, but it doesn't excuse it.

Yes both of us are good people, and I was willing to work my ass off to re-built the trust between us, and after months of thinking about this he agreed the same. But in the space of a few days, all of a sudden he wasn't sure. My gut feeling right now is that I am being taken for a mug, and his heart is not in it. I think the crux of this is; he got caught and he can't get over that! And he will never forgive me for finding out, no matter how sorry he is for his behaviour.